Got my first MOT on Thursday morning, (2 years, 11 months old, 12,500 miles with 10,000 of that being stop start) taking it to a local MOT only place, it is not council run but they only do MOTs so no incentive to find faults. I will then get it serviced at the FIAT dealer.
I have checked:-
All doors open/close from the outside and lock properly etc
All lights work including registration plate ones but no way of checking headlight aim, the controls work though.
All wipers work fine
Suspension behaves as it should e.g nicely bounces back.
Springs are fine
No obvious signs of leakage from the shocks.
No knocking noises etc
No obvious emissions problems (again you can't always tell)
Windscreen wash topped up
Oil fine
Break fluid fine
No warning lights
Steering seems fine with no obvious play.
Tracking seems fine
All tyres are well within the legal limits
Brakes seem ok but without taking the wheels of there is no real way of knowing.
No scratches on the windscreen
Is there any other basic checks I can do?
Also my front registration plate is slightly scruffed due to the fact it was poorly made, the plastic seal is stripping away at the side, but the MOTs assistant looked at and seemed to think it would be fine, but he stressed he was not an MOT inspector.
Once I get the MOT cert, I will get the usual oil change service done at the dealer, if they find anything else such as worn brake pads I shall get them done locally much cheaper.
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Seat mountings/seat belts/filler cap seal.
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Checked all the seats are secure, can't check the chassis for rust at the mounting points, but this is a three year old car, not really going to be a problem. It is not a Lada. I will check the filler cap though, I am sure its ok but will double check.
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Checked all the seats are secure, can't check the chassis for rust at the mounting points, but this is a three year old car, not really going to be a problem.
You said it, pal! You should also check both legs for signs of pulling. If it's any comfort, my Volvo has had eight MoTs over 130,000 sometimes far-from-gentle miles, and the most I've ever done before putting it in is to walk around it and check that all the lights are working. The routine stuff - tyres, bulbs, wipers, fluids - you and I will have been checking regularly anyway; the rest is what regular maintenance is for.
Oh, and I had the last test done at a main dealer along with its now-annual service. They rang me at work to say all four indicator bulbs needed replacing, not because they'd failed but because they were no longer orange enough. Cost me £12 - a little steep, perhaps, but it got the job done.
Have no fear!
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Would it not be better to ask your dealer to MOT the car after they have carried out the service?
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Tue 9 Apr 13 at 19:13
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I don't trust the bunch of money grabbing crooks. All the big chains have massive targets to make at least this way if they service it and start telling me bull about how the shocks are leaking etc I can tell them to stuff it. All that free cofee and heated waiting rooms have to be paid for!
Working for a large electrical retailer for a few months has made me very suspicious of large companies! Plus it keeps some of the money in my local town and not down a big PLC hole. The only reason I am getting it serviced at FIAT is for residual value reasons and in case of any warranty issues.
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They are not all bad, Rattle. My LHB has been through eight MOT tests and all were carried out via my main dealer. There have been no failures, nor any advisories so far.
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>> I don't trust the bunch of money grabbing crooks. ....................................................... .....The only reason I am getting it serviced at FIAT is for residual value reasons and in case of any warranty issues.
>>
Except for wear and tear items, (tyres, brakes etc) anything causing an MOT fail would be covered by the warranty.
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Yeah it is wear and tear which could be an issue though, e.g break pads, am budgeting to get them replaced this yeah anyway if needed. Its just easier to get it MOT'ed while I wait in my local area, rather than going to Stockport, hanging round there for hours.
I actually was in two minds, I did phone the dealer this morning to try and book in the MOT and service, but they didn't answer so that is when I thought stuff it. Its ironic the amount of cold calls I've had from them reminding me about my MOT and service yet when you try and book it its always a nightmare.
I will say also that I have had not any issue with the service department at this dealer, they have as far as I know been very fair and honest with me, but staff and management change etc.
It is just a general distrust of the motor trade rather than the dealer itself, and anybody here who remembers my car history will know why.
I also know that MOT inspectors are checked, and are now [edit I meant NOT!] allowed to make stuff up, so I am probably just being paranoid but its just easier this way. Get my MOT done early so its done with (as its a legal requirement) and still got another month or so to get the service done.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Tue 9 Apr 13 at 19:37
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>>I also know that MOT inspectors are checked, and are now [edit I meant NOT!] allowed to make stuff up, so I am probably just being paranoid but its just easier this way. Get my MOT done early so its done with (as its a legal requirement) and still got another month or so to get the service done. >>
Is it really three years since you got the Fiat? Doesn't time fly.
I've used a small, independent garage for MOTs on two different cars in recent years and the owner mechanics have been thoroughly straightforward and honest. Only had one minor problem over the years and that was rectified quickly at very reasonable cost. Otherwise the cars have sailed through the test.
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As a footnote, the most deceitful MOT centre I've used was the local Halfords before the company was taken over. I read the details of what was supposed to be wrong and needing attending to ASAP with the VW, so took it round the corner to a Hi-Q outlet. It passed without any problems, so I provided VOSA with all the details; don't know if any action was taken.
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>> As a footnote, the most deceitful MOT centre I've used was the local Halfords before the company was taken over. I read the details of what was supposed to be wrong and needing attending to ASAP with the VW, so took it round the corner to a Hi-Q outlet. It passed without any problems, so I provided VOSA with all the details; don't know if any action was taken.
>>
Good on you!
These dodgy places that pass anything need to be reported.... :-)
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I'll second letting the main dealer do the MOT. They daren't fail on anything spurious nowadays in case the appeal procedure's invoked.
Take it out and get it fully warmed up, then take it along a dual carriageway or motorway and hold it in third for a mile or so at an indicated 80MPH. That'll blow the cobwebs out - it clears any loose muck out of the exhaust and gets the cat working properly.
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It is a bit late now it is all booked in, it just makes things a bit easier this way anyway. Yeah will take it out on a good blast tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me, would have forgot to that.
I am probably am being very daft but it does help out a local business doing it this way too.
The other way of looking at it is that the dealer would do the service first, tell me XX will need doing or it won't pass the MOT, by doing it this way they can't use that excuse. Sure they can tell me the brake pads need replacing etc, but then I can easily get a second opinion on anything like that.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Tue 9 Apr 13 at 19:47
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>> Take it out and get it fully warmed up, then take it along a dual
>> carriageway or motorway and hold it in third for a mile or so at an
>> indicated 80MPH. That'll blow the cobwebs out - it clears any loose muck out of
>> the exhaust and gets the cat working properly.
>>
Ha ha, 80mph in 3rd in a 1.1, now that will be worth waiting for tomorrow's topic called "I think I have a piston missing"
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Another vote for a main dealer service and MOT whilst the warranty is still running and just before the MOT is due. As said, any failure other than wear and tear wouyld be done under warranty. In fact that is what my S-Max had today, and nothing came up 'suspiciously' to fail the MOT on. When SWMBO has her Merc serviced annually I always get the dealer to do the MOT too, which they do for free, and again it has never failed or had extra items.
I think you are perhaps too cynical, Rattle?
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>> perhaps too cynical, Rattle?
Cynical schmynical. The Sheikh is just faffing as usual.
Still, I'd like to watch when he melts the engine to 'blow the cobwebs out' at 80 in third. What kind of tune-up would that be, Syrian? I'm sure an Italian would stop well short of valve bounce.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 9 Apr 13 at 20:17
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Are you seeing Ian at the Shell garage, Rats ? I'm there at 12 on Thursday with the Vitara.
I've told him I want it passing so I know it'll be all right.
You'd be very unlucky to get a fail from him on a first test.
Ted
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>>
>> Ha ha, 80mph in 3rd in a 1.1, now that will be worth waiting for
>> tomorrow's topic called "I think I have a piston missing"
>>
I'm sure you could get a Panda 80 in 3rd if you tried... I can't be posiive as it was a long time ago, but I think my old Uno 55 would just about manage it; certainly if not it won't have been for lack of trying!!
Our Up! does have a cylinder missing (compared to a Panda at least) and it won't quite hit a indicated 80 in 3rd, or so I'm told ;-). But then it's engine is only 999cc
On the MOT front I'd have booked it in at the dealer - warranty will cover anything that a 12k mile car could fail on bar bulbs and tyres surely?
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>> Would it not be better to ask your dealer to MOT the car after they
>> have carried out the service?
>>
I have the service and MOT done at the one visit. I leave it up to the dealer which they actually do first.
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The MOT bit can benefit from having a few fails on the statistics and if every car was put through the test after a proper service, they'd not have any.
VOSA look at the overall ratios, and if a centre is seen to pass everything, can decide to look closely and watch tests etc.
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Seem to remember Stobart saying none of their vehicles ever fail the MOT and it would be embarrassing if they did.
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If you believe that Rattle , you'll believe anything!
:)
Pat
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The mechanic was prepping it first, e.g they don't just put them in for MOT and hope the best. I am not taking by all the Stobart propaganda stuff don't worry :D.
Certainly I know half of Stagecoach's fleet in Manchester would fail on emissions, the amount of their Magicbuses which belt out black smoke. I really ought to send Stagecoach a bill to have my car cleaned.
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Truck MOTs are a bit different. A dirty truck is a fail even if it's perfect mechanically.
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AIUI VOSA take a dim of operators that persistently present trucks that fail.....
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It certainly affects an operators OCRS score (Operators Compliance Risk Score) and that works like a traffic light system. Red, amber and green.
Targeted enforcement works so well because they can pull firms who are in the red and the top half of the amber, but leave alone those in the green.
Pat
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>>No scratches on the windscreen
>>Is there any other basic checks I can do?
IIRC you must have clear vision through the swept area so...
Remove the worry beads and the pong killer that dangles off the rear view mirror :-)
My MoT guy removes all such items .
>>All tyres are well within the legal limits
Is that just tread depth or have you inspected all eight walls for damage?
Petrol cap /closure correct?
>>All lights work
Have you tapped all the lights to ensure they stay on?
>>Suspension behaves as it should e.g nicely bounces back.
Does the exhaust system bounce ??
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Its not just the things they spot that should concern you. I think you need to worry more about the competence of the MOT tester. I mean what if they were to give you a pass and miss some lethal fault - the consequences could be horrendous. Have you thought about that?
And for God's sake if you are wandering about near a garage watch out for kerbs - we've seen how dangerous they are. Make sure you have legal aid insurance.
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For goodness sake it's a 3 year old car with 12000 gentle miles on the clock. The only thing you needed to check before setting off for the MOT was that you had remembered your wallet.
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Here we go again - Four rattles and an MOT.
:)
It'll be fine - don't worry. If it fails on some silly little thing just fix it and get a free retest.
Wait till it's 40 years old and then start worrying.
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Types are probably due replacement. If the car is three years post-registration the tyres are probably four years old, which is about as old as you should let them become before replacing.
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>> Types are probably due replacement. If the car is three years post-registration the tyres are
>> probably four years old, which is about as old as you should let them become
>> before replacing.
>>
This is what RoSPA says about aging of tyres ...............
tinyurl.com/c8fk4df
"Rubber compounds used in tyres contain anti-oxidising chemicals that help to slow down the natural aging process of untreated rubber. However, tyres do deteriorate with age, which increases the risk of tyre failure, and there are many ways in which this can be spotted:
Cracking/crazing on the side wall of the tyre, caused by its flexing
Distortion of tyre tread
Deformation of the carcass of the tyre
There will also be a deterioration of the ride quality caused by vibrations through the tyre. This may signify the tyre’s performance has been affected by age and should be investigated as soon as possible.
All tyres that display signs of aging should be removed and not put to further use.
Tyres that have been in storage should not be placed into use if they are over 6 years old, from their date of manufacture. When a tyre has been in use, the effects of aging are lessened to a degree, but such tyres should be replaced after 10 years.
The effects of aging can be brought about prematurely in several conditions. Tyres fitted as spare wheels or used on caravans and trailers may age prematurely. If tyres on caravans or trailers are not in regular use, then they should be inspected before every journey. Tyres used predominantly in coastal areas will age at a greater rate due to the saline conditions, and several cleaning products may also harm the chemicals in the rubber.
In most circumstances tread depth can be used as a suitable indication of when tyres should be replaced - as tyre treads generally wear out before their age effects their performance. However, the age of a tyre will affect its safety and increase the risk of failure, and you should inspect tyres for the signs of aging regularly."
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Not checked the date on the tyres but one new and the rest have plenty of tread. Most parts of my car have April 2010 on the date, they were building cars that quickly at he time I can't see the tyres being in storage for long.
The front ones will probably be need replacing at the end of the year as they will be down to 3mm then.
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"The front ones will probably be need replacing at the end of the year as they will be down to 3mm then"
Unless you've been doing so already, swap the front and rears well before then to even out the wear. It'll only take a few minutes to do (or have done) and it seems an awful waste of money and rubber to throw away two otherwise sound part-worn tyres.
And before the tyre zealots start screaming [ :-) ] remember that:
1. Swap them soon, and the rears will still have 4mm on. Would anyone scrap a good tyre that's only half worn?
2. Its a car that only does 4000 low speed urban miles every year. Those half-worn rear tyres risk being scrapped for old age or punctures before they're worn out.
3. Its a FIAT Panda, not a speed machine - and I say that tongue-in-cheek as a Panda owner!
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This tyre stuff is hilarious. Cracked, bald, showing canvas, lumpy... I've driven on them all, and here I still am, sound in limb if not wind...
Swap them front to rear to make them last longer Sheikha. Pay no attention to all the stuff about how old they should be. It's rubbish put out by the manufacturers to make you scrap them while they're still good.
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Their is truth in it, it is well known that rubber perishes with age, but I am not scrapping a three old tyre because of it. Anybody who has ever seen VIR cable will know how easily rubber corrodes.
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I wouldn't even consider replacing a tyre with as much as 3mm on it. The legal limit is 1.6mm so why throw away money? I would drive more cautiously knowing I only had 3mm on a tyre, but I guess that is pretty much a given with the 'performance' of a Panda?
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>> I would drive more cautiously knowing I only had 3mm on a tyre
Rattle's driving is the very definition of "more cautiously" when compared with yours and mine BB. I exercise more caution on 3mm tyres on wet motorways, otherwise there's no difference and anyone who says different is in the tyre sales game.
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Beat this - The rear tyres on my Carisma are dated 2002 and 2003 and have plenty of tread. Got that from the week/year date code on the tyre sidewall, gord knows where they come from but are Goodyear branded and they aren't getting swapped yet.
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Told you them Mitsi's were reliable....
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>> I wouldn't even consider replacing a tyre with as much as 3mm on it.
Correct
>> I would drive more cautiously knowing
>> I only had 3mm on a tyre,
I drive with tyres on 3mm or less, and cautiously doesn't even get a minute thought wave.
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>> it is well known that rubber perishes with age
Yes, but tyres aren't made of pure latex. They are made of stuff containing a lot of plastic and are somewhat more resistant to degradation from exposure to UV than they once were.
Carcases are much better than they used to be as well. I used to be able to repair tyres myself (albeit with the greatest reluctance, filthy job) but for modern ones you have to have machines just to get them off the rim and put them back. It's a relief in a way. But it costs ya.
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>> Anybody who has ever seen VIR cable will know how easily rubber corrodes.
>>
I googled for VIR and it came up with "Historic Mains cables!
wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Historic_Mains_Cables
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As a materials chemist, I can assure you that the formulations of cable shielding 'rubber' and tyre 'rubber' are but distant cousins.
Tyre compound is generously dosed with additives to retard degradation, and I'm confident enough that the 'change by 6 years old rule' allows enough of a margin for error that I continued running the rears on my Panda until tread wear and a puncture did for them. My Subaru's fronts were noted as being below 3mm at its inspection last week, but I'll run them until we head for the autoroutes of France on holidays, just taking it a bit easier into the bends as suggested above
Besides, these are cooking Fiats we're talking about, not Abraths. But you pay your money and make your choice...
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>> This tyre stuff is hilarious. Cracked, bald, showing canvas, lumpy... I've driven on them all,
>>
>>
And a disintegrating tractor tyre with carpet tiles shoved in to stop the inner tube bulging out through the splits ?
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>> a disintegrating tractor tyre with carpet tiles shoved in to stop the inner tube bulging out through the splits ?
Part of your motoring experience CP?
They used to sell a thing called a gaiter to prevent a bulging sidewall from becoming a blowout. I've done two I think. I suppose it's a good thing they wouldn't be allowed now. Too many cars and too many crap drivers.
Early 2CVs could be obtained with solid tyres. Often wanted to try one but never did. Can't remember even seeing one.
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>> This tyre stuff is hilarious. Cracked, bald, showing canvas, lumpy... I've driven on them all,
>> and here I still am, sound in limb if not wind...
When I bought my second car in 1956 it was 20 years old and it had remould/retread crossply tyres which were completely (and I mean completely!) devoid of any tread whatsoever ~ as smooth as the proverbial baby's bottom. It had the same tyres when I sold it 3 months later! No probs!
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>> This tyre stuff is hilarious.
The whole MOT stuff is hilarious. Before MOTs had been invented a colleague had a car in which the steering was so worn that you could turn the steering wheel 30° before the front wheels reacted. He survived.
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Just got back ten minutes ago. The car passed with no advisories and the emissions were well within the limits. Just need to taxed now (runs out at the end of April) and serviced.
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Time to start worrying about the next MOT.
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And time to get those tyres replaced.
Just to be on the safe side, you should ideally replace them annually. I always do so before the MOT.
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Good result! Considering the unfortunate history that you have had with some of your cars, I am pleased for you Rattle. :-)
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>> Just got back ten minutes ago. The car passed with no advisories and the emissions
>> were well within the limits.
Well theres a surprise. Still never miss a good opportunity to panic or worry eh! Happens again in 12 months you know.
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I was there after Ratto and I got a pass as well...11 yr old Vitara TD. The owners were installing cameras in the MOT bay much to the testers annoyance. He's been there 20 yrs, through various changes of ownership and doesn't need any supervision.
So, he told them to stuff the job...he's about retirement age and only does it now to keep out of the wife's way. He'll tell me if he goes somewhere else....I hope he does !
As a bonus negative for me, they've removed the car wash equipment and are making it into an MOT reception area..........no more £1.99 washes unless I can find another one.....Bah !
Ted
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Or in 11 months, to be on the safe side. It gives you a month to fix things without risk of being off the road.
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Glad you got a pass as well Ted :).
Booked in the service for next week, £170 eek!. Will be last yeah I have to bother with the main dealer though. I think while there is still a months warranty left it is worth preserving the main dealer service history though.
I noticed the owners were hanging about this morning.
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You should get it MOT'd every month.That way, when it fails on something catastrophic and lethal that you cannot afford to get fixed, you'll still be able to drive it for 11 months more.
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I think of better ways to spend £45 a month! That will be around 15-20 pints!
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A fair point. Well how about if you did it every 2 months instead? In fact, you don't even need to get it MOT'd, you could just pay for those pre-MOT check services, they'll be cheaper.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 11 Apr 13 at 15:26
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>>Booked in the service for next week, £170 eek!
Dat sounds a bit OTT 2 me SmokleandRats, my Mitsufishi is in the pain dealer next week = 180 squid,
and that includes the use of a leccie car to kerb-crawl around Falmouth in.
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>> includes the use of a leccie car to kerb-crawl around Falmouth in.
What make and model will that be Perro? I want to know all about it. I have a reason for asking.
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"no way of checking headlight aim"
A partial check, usually enough for me, is to drive it on a straight stretch of level road, put the headlamps up, and see where they are pointing. If it is above the horizontal, tweak them down a bit. You can also see if they are skewed or spreading too much. I have a level adjust in the cab for the dipped beam so I can make sure they are adequately dipped. My headlamps have always used two-filament bulbs for up and dipped, so the up-angle is related to the dipped beam alignment. Never had a headlamp failure doing this.
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Rattle - worth checking if they do cheaper servicing for cars 3+. My local Fiat dealer charge £110 when its 3 years old
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Tomorrow I am going to:-
A) Phone around for quotes
B) Phone FIAT and ask them to explain why a basic oil change service is £170 (in a nice way).
I do think £170 is just mad for what appears to be a basic service which is required. Next years is a biggie in terms of things that to be done, but I won't be using a main dealer for that, only for the cam belt (which in theory needs to be changed, but the pistons won't hit the valves on my engine so will probably leave it).
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Just wait a few weeks until its 3 years old then have it done under the 3+ scheme, or just take it to an indy.
I dont really imagine that Fiat will give much in the way of good will in the event of a failure outside of the 3 years anyway.
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>> >> includes the use of a leccie car to kerb-crawl around Falmouth in.
>>
>> What make and model will that be Perro? I want to know all about it.
>> I have a reason for asking.
>>
I've got a Vauxhall Ampera on a free 3-day test next week. I'll post my impressions on here for those who are interested.
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>> post my impressions on here for those who are interested.
Great Bb. How difficult was that to arrange? I suppose one has to pretend one can afford to buy one.
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These tests are getting a bit more realistic. The most I have had in the past is about 20 minutes.
I think L'escargot's Ford dealer gave him a Focus for 100 miles or so.
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>> These tests are getting a bit more realistic. The most I have had in the
>> past is about 20 minutes.
>>
>> I think L'escargot's Ford dealer gave him a Focus for 100 miles or so.
>>
The did. They got it from an unrelated dealer 40 miles away. By the time it got back to it's original dealer it had done another 180 miles.
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>> These tests are getting a bit more realistic. The most I have had in the
>> past is about 20 minutes.
If you don't ask, you don't get. Apart from asking for 100 miles I also asked them to check the tyre pressures before I went out in it. I remember a test drive in the past which I had to repeat because the first time the uneven tyre pressures adversely affected the handling.
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>> How difficult was that to arrange? I suppose one has to pretend one
>> can afford to buy one.
>>
It was extremely easy, via a link on the Vauxhall website. I'm looking forward to it, because of the various electric cars around this seems to be the best solution so far, on paper at least. And if i'm happy with the drive I could see myself driving one.
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Just got it back from the service. I am now 100% glad I did the MOT first. The dealer phoned me up at around 1:30 to say there is a couple of problems with the car. 1) A tyre is down to 3mm (wow phone the police! they tried to say it was dangerous having it down to 3mm. Really?) and that my front pads are down to 90%.
Given that the brakes seem to be perfectly fine, and that it passed the MOT last week I find that a bit far fetched. I was expecting to replace the pads fairly soon but 90% worn seems well over the top but maybe they are.
I asked them is it normal for cars to pass the MOT with 90% worn pads, he looked a bit embarrassed at this point and muttered "don't know"
Now of course the MOT inspector can't actually see the pads all they can do is test brakes but I would have thought at 90% worn the brakes would have failed the test?
The best bit? They have quoted £160 for two front pads. I politely told them where to stick it. My indie is going to look at it on Saturday but his words are they are so cheap he will probably do them anyway.
Now they may well be 90% worn, my grip is the cost £160. Last time I got the brakes done on my Fiesta, I was charged £80 for the discs and pads including labour.
They then tried to sell me a four year service plan, at this point I was starting to get a bit annoyed with them and told them I am taking it out of the dealer network the second the warranty is up anyway.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 18 Apr 13 at 15:54
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Sheikha, what 'down to 90%' means to me is that the pads are 10% worn, which sounds likely with your mileage and prudent driving style. I think you and the dealer are at cross purposes.
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>> Sheikha, what 'down to 90%' means to me is that the pads are 10% worn, which sounds likely with your
>> mileage and prudent driving style. I think you and the dealer are at cross purposes.
FWIW my daughter's Panda had it's MOT and 4 year service today at the supplying FIAT dealer.
£138.99 all in, and valeted too.
Mileage 14K5 - Front pads 10mm, new they are "10 to 12 mm". Front tyres 3.6mm, rears 5mm
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MOT man can see the pads - if they were 90% worn he'd have put an advisory on. The garage is trying it on - especially with £160!! My guess? 12k miles around town in a light manual car - less than 50%.
Edit - I remember I once had a similar go (with an indy) - had the rear arm bearings changed in my BX, and he tried to tell me it needed new pads. Now that might be fair enough, but they last well over 100k on the back of a BX, and I had fitted new ones less than a year before. I declined his 'generous' offer....!
Last edited by: RichardW on Thu 18 Apr 13 at 15:58
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>>Now of course the MOT inspector can't actually see the pads all they can do is test brakes but I would have thought at 90% worn the brakes would have failed the test?<<
If the tester could not see the pads then you could probably get the car to pass the MOT brake test with some carefully shaped lumps of wood.
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My receipt clearly says, dangerous pads 90% worn. It clearly says that. The total quote came down to this:-
Oil change
New oil filter
Health check
New tyre (Primewell crap)
New pads
Total price - £403.
I paid the £170 for the service just feel quite relieved now I get out of the dealership rip offs.
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It isn't totally mad that they need changing, because there are 18 set of traffic lights between my house and my office, that is 36 round trip. Then there is all the other city driving to jobs. Tried to charge me £70 for the Primewell tyre, I can get a proper Continental for £45 brand new at a local tyre place (Event).
I will keep an eye on that tyre, will probably replace it towards the end of the summer unless it gets down to 2mm before then.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 18 Apr 13 at 16:07
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90% worn isn't the same thing as worn down to 90%. Which was it?
Can the tester see the pads? I can on the Volvo by squinting, easier with a mirror, but it wouldn't surprise me that modern cars have sealed wheel/hub/disc/pad assemblies and the whole thing has to be replaced as a unit.
But then I know only about cars whose pads last 40,000 miles and cost £20 a set. :)
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It says 90% worn. I have just checked and the cost of pads are £16 a pair or £23 a pair depending on the manufacturer.
I don't know how much the FIAT ones would cost but if they only last 12,000 miles I could without the original pads.
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Suspicious they think it just needs new pads, nowadays the discs wear just as fast.
Would be interesting to measure a new pad against those on your car (and the tread depth).
Are you sure it came back with the same wheels and tyres?
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Sorry Rats, but cars, especially light ones, don't generally wear out brake pads; drivers do.
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I won't bother stopping at red lights next time then! I have probably my brakes more in the 12,500 miles than if I would have done in 25,000 if it was motorway work. My journey to my office and back is 10 miles (5 each way) all through the innercity. You can imagine the amount of traffic lighrs and other hazzards which require breaking.
Of course I could drive slowly every where but that would result in a lot of honking from behind.
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There is another solution. Have you thought about anticipating the light change and braking gently but earlier?
Pat
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I usually do but it is not always easy to do, especially they seem to change the timings a lot. I often seem to get it wrong too, I know what I should do is slow down when the lights have been on green for a while etc. I think the journey is so boring repeative though there are times when I go to into autopilot and thus end up braking more heavily than I would have been do.
A lot if it just stop start too, last night for example took me 40 minutes to get home, it was just stop start all the way, and there is no way of avoiding the brakes. I know low speed stopping doesn't wear the brakes out much but it will all ad up.
Also I wonder if cars with smaller wheels have smaller pads? I would imagine smaller pads would wear out quicker as there is less mass. My indie reckened it was a bit early, but certainly by 15,000 he said he would expect them to be shot.
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>> Of course I could drive slowly every where but that would result in a lot
>> of honking from behind.
>>
I hope BBD doesn't see that.
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>>
>> >> Of course I could drive slowly every where but that would result in a
>> lot
>> >> of honking from behind.
>> >>
>>
>> I hope BBD doesn't see that.
No traffic when BBD's out driving slowly, RR. Usually after midnight !
Ted
>>
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>> Now of course the MOT inspector can't actually see the pads all they can do
>> is test brakes but I would have thought at 90% worn the brakes would have
>> failed the test?
My understanding is that 99% worn is still not a fail as long as it passes the other tests.
Although I would expect an advisory if they can see them.
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The brake pads should work perfectly till they run out of material and you are down to the backing plate. As far as I know there is no minimum pad thickness specified in the MoT, so as long as they pass the test on the rollers they are ok.
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I replace my tyres at 3mm - fleets go to the legal minimum but 3mm isn't that much. Up to you.
I'd have thought you're a prime candidate to wear out brakes - short infrequent journeys with time for the discs to rust in between. And didn't you say you used the brake pedal as a footrest at one point?
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Might be the clutch, it took me a while to get used to the pedal arranagement, so for the first 1000 miles or so I often had my foot slightly on the clutch.
Yeah I wouldn't be too surprised if they are 90% worn, but they recken that tyre is 78% worn. I will change the tyre this yeah, but even by the end of the summer they will only be down to 2.5mm. Will get a seperate tin for tyre money and just get to brand new ones at the front.
The other one has 4mm, so it makes sense to let than wear a bit more and replace them both at the same time.
I will know more when the indie looks at it on Saturday anyway.
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>>Will get a seperate tin for tyre money<<<
good to know that a southerners stereo-typical preconception of 'up north' still holds.
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25,000 miles, Rats? Try 100,000 if you use the motorways and learn some anticipation! And are you still using fourth gear in town because you imagine it'll save you fuel? Even if it does - which is questionable at best - it's doing so at the expense of your brakes. The sirenian and I took you through this a while ago: keep it in third and the engine braking means you can drive with one pedal, and it's not the middle one.
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Never thought of that, it always feels a bit chuggy in 3rd though at 30. Its only a 1.1 litre engine so it screams a bit but yeah 4th is a bit too high for reasons you suggest. If it is a busy road though I keep it in 3rd, because I know I only have to slow down in a second, but if the road is clear 4th is fine.
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I'm not sure how you have managed to wear the pads down 90% in that mileage and age of car.
I say this as you may recall one of my offspring has a 1.1 Panda, bought new on the scrappage scheme nearly 4 years ago.
It's done a shade under 15K miles, and the front tyres (155) are down a bit at the edges as they weren't kept up to pressure while it was away for a couple of years.
But the pads... I've just got cleaned up from taking a front wheel off (you really can't see what state they are in with the wheel trims on, and you need to unbolt 3 of the 4 bolts to get the trim off), it's bit fuzzy, but I reckon 7mm remaining.
tinyurl.com/budlbaf
which is probably less than 30% worn, and they are the originals as I have the service bills.
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The only persons word I have that the pads are that worn is the dealer, who is of course on commission and wanted to sell me over priced pads.
It might actually turn out they are more than fine, I won't know till Saturday. If they are fine I will be taking a picture of them and forwarding it onto trading standards but we will have to see.
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>>
>> It might actually turn out they are more than fine, I won't know till Saturday.
>> If they are fine I will be taking a picture of them and forwarding it
>> onto trading standards but we will have to see.
>>
For goodness sake Rattle, dont make such a drama over a set of brake pads, there are more importnant things in life to worry about.
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>> The only persons word I have that the pads are that worn is the dealer,
>> who is of course on commission and wanted to sell me over priced pads.
>>
>> It might actually turn out they are more than fine, I won't know till Saturday.
>> If they are fine I will be taking a picture of them and forwarding it
>> onto trading standards but we will have to see.
>>
The MOT tester checks the car for condition on the day, where as the dealer is looking to make sure the car will make it to the next service without having to come back in.
That is the main reason things like pads get changed at around 80% worn.
That said, there are some places that will 'stitch you up' and not all of those are dealers.
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The C5 pads were 70% worn when it was 3 years old / 30K, but in typical citroen style they were very assisted which resulted in you breaking harder than you planned.
Mrs B's Sharan is surprisingly economical on brakes given its a fairly heavy old lump combined with the fact that Mrs B's lack of perception often results in some somewhat heavy braking. The OE pads lasted 40K and I've no idea what the local indy fitted but they lasted 46K when the discs and pads needed replacing. Don't think we have ever changed the rear pads and we are on 90K now.
New pads at 12K would upset me!
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Honestly Sheikha one might almost become impatient with anyone but you.
What you do is this.
You loosen the bolts on one of the front wheels, jack that wheel up and remove it.
You can then see, through conveniently placed slots perhaps, how much meat is left on the brake pads.
You are a young able bodied man and not obliged to depend on the dealer or MoT place for information on the state of YOUR OWN GODDAM JALOPY fa CHRISSAKES!
Sorry Sheikha, don't know what came over me. Old age perhaps.
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I've never had a car fail its first MOT on anything other than something silly such as a blown bulb and a few of my cars have hit 100,000 miles by the time as well.
Relax!
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>> I've never had a car fail its first MOT on anything other than something silly
>> such as a blown bulb ............
My 1967 Hillman Minx failed it's first MOT because of corrosion of a floor-strengthening crossmember. Fiat Pandas might be prone to this sort of thing as well. It's worth having it checked out. Better to be safe than sorry.
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Steel quality, corrosion protection, and build quality have improved a bit since the mid 60's Rootes plant though....
Except the Mk1 KA of course....!
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>>I've never had a car fail its first MOT on anything other than something silly such as
I've only once ever had a car fail an MOT test on anything, which was a Renault 21 that at 15 years old (in 2002) had a fail sheet that ran to a second page... curiously it had gone through fine the previous year, same garage. They were only really minor fail points, and I'm sure that a tester would have ignored them if there had only been a couple, but clearly the car had had it. A few hours and some time at the scrap yard would have fixed it no doubt.
Oh yes, another car failed because I sent it in to the MOT with a missing headlight bulb, as I was having trouble finding a replacement. But that doesn't really count.
Note, most of my cars have been over ten years old.
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Panda Active front brake pads can often show heavy wear at low mileages. Often it is just one of the pads on each front wheel. With infrequent or light braking the calipers seize up.
The answer is to dismantle and thoroughly clean, then lubricate the calipers at least once a year. Fiat dealers don't do this but when Rats has his servicing carried out by an indie he should ask that this is done.
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Ratty's MOT man does check the pads while the car is up in the air. Perhaps he couldn't see them on the Panda and assessing from outside the wheel can be difficult or not possible.
He did my MOT later the same day and reported that the pads were getting close to the metal. I'd anticipated this and already had a set in stock off EBay to do the job. They would have been in by now had circumstances allowed. Hopefully, I'll get them in next week. The broken front spring can wait !
Ted
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If you care to be somewhat patronised, then this website will help.
www.passmymot.co.uk/
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Here's a report of a Fiat Panda failing it's first MOT because of excessive play on both front suspension ball joints. The car had only done 15,000 miles. tinyurl.com/bpxcduk
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Just got the car back, turns out they were very bably worn. He showed me the pads, very little friction left in them. Cost me £50 including labour, £110 less than the dealer wanted.
Both pads were just as worn so it doesn't look like the callipers were sticking. However looking at the service history last year they were only 30% worn, and have done only 4000 miles since.
The big thing that has change is my office which is just under 5 miles away, and its all minor roads to get there, with little room for oncoming traffic, lots and lots of traffic lights etc. The journey is simply a car killer.
There is another way I can go which involves a 40mph dual carriage away, but its a bit further after once the 40mph road ends its still a lot of minor roads.
I might drive more in 3rd gear and let the engine do more of the breaking but then I suppose £50 for brakes every three years is not too much to worry about anyway.
I also worked out how much the dealer tried to get out of me on Thursday, in total it was around £900 if they sold me their service plan.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 20 Apr 13 at 17:56
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>> I might drive more in 3rd gear and let the engine do more of the
>> breaking but then I suppose £50 for brakes every three years is not too much
>> to worry about anyway.
Ah, but. You took 60% out of them in a year tho, that means in about 20 months your brakes will fail. I'd start worrying if I were you.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 20 Apr 13 at 13:44
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>> I might drive more in 3rd gear and let the engine do more of the
>> breaking but then I suppose £50 for brakes every three years is not too much
>> to worry about anyway.
>>
>>
But would you not be worried about wearing out the clutch and gearbox? Delicate things, Pandas, and didn't I hear a rumour about catastrophic gearbox failures at about 4 years old, with resulting destruction of the car, driver, and local area?
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I know you're teasing, FF, but if he does it right he'll be making fewer gearchanges, not more. Should be kinder to all concerned.
All he'll have to worry about then is necrosis of the left hand, which tends to afflict drivers who don't change gear enough. I make a point of using the LEC's flick-shift every trip to ward this off.
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If anything in urban areas there will be less gear changes in third! It just feels quite choppy and not very relaxed in 3rd, which is why I tend to use 4th at 30mph.
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I seem to recall that all the drummers in Spinal Tap went everywhere in third, and look what happened to them.
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Since this thread has just been replied to above, it reminded me that since the new brake pads have been put on, my MPG has improved massively. I am now convinced they may have been sticking.
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>> I am now convinced they may have been sticking.
But you never noticed them getting unduly hot? Never had the feeling the car seemed unnaturally reluctant at speeds over 60 or 70?
I am speechless. Speechless by my standards anyway.
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>> >> I am now convinced they may have been sticking.
>>
>> But you never noticed them getting unduly hot? Never had the feeling the car seemed
>> unnaturally reluctant at speeds over 60 or 70?
>>
>> I am speechless. Speechless by my standards anyway.
>>
>>
AC, do you seriously think that Rattle's Panda has ever seen 60+ ;-)
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>> do you seriously think that Rattle's Panda has ever seen 60+ ;-)
Not seriously, no (although you never know, he could be having us on ingeniously). But it must have seen fiftyish once or twice surely? Even then you might notice something in top gear, or a pong of linings and burning rubber when you got out in that wave of heat coming off the front discs and hubs. Bit of melting grease too... soon the bearings will dry out and get noisy.
I'm still flabbergasted that a young able-bodied technophile like the Sheikh hadn't looked at the brake pads himself. Why knuckle under to a radical dependency* when you have the nous and muscle not to? Seems barmy to me. Cars aren't at all difficult. Except sometimes.
*Late Marxist concept describing more or less perfectly the low-average car user's relationship with the automobile maintenance and aftermarked industry.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 11 Jun 13 at 20:14
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>> since the new brake pads have been put on, my MPG has improved massively. I am now convinced they may have been sticking.
Nothing to do with the new pads and more likely sticky wheel cylinders.
Some of us here strip them down every year, inspect, grease and make sure the pistons and sliders move freely.
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FIrst MOT check list - anything I have forgotten? - jc2
