I'm quite interested in the direction that electric car technology is taking, and especially the advances that Tesla are making. Their problem has always being whether they can overcome the barrier to entry of a small manufacturing capability, so I found this interesting:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10138918.stm
I get the impression that my next car (5 years from now) will likely be pure electric, maybe something like their planned Model S
www.teslamotors.com/models/
Mind you, that might be as fanciful as people in 1965 thinking that they would be on an atomic powered rocket to their moon based holiday home by 1975...
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>> Mind you, that might be as fanciful as people in 1965 thinking that they would
>> be on an atomic powered rocket to their moon based holiday home by 1975...
>>
It is fanciful. The range will still not be sufficient, nor will the charging infrastructure be in place to mitigate the short range.
your next car in 5 years time is likely to still be a hybrid.
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>> It is fanciful. The range will still not be sufficient, nor will the charging infrastructure
>> be in place to mitigate the short range.
You could be right, but what sort of range do you think will be required? I think that Tesla currently expect the Model S to have a range of 300 miles, and you can charge them from a standard household socket in about 5 hours (1 mile per minute) or 45 minutes from a 480v supply (4 miles per minute).
If you can charge them from a household socket, then maybe we don't need such a big recharging network for, perhaps, 90% of the population. No reason that hotels, service stations, offices, supermarkets etc couldn't offer recharging points without having to do a major infrastucture upgrade.
If they could extend the range to 500 miles, I think it would work for me. Of course, it wouldn't be good for everybody (but then I am not predicting that everybody will have one, just that I might do).
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The trouble with purely electric cars is that once the dark and cold of winter time come into play and the possibility of traffic congestion on those dark wet mornings let alone snow get added to the mix, i for one do not relish a rapidly discharging power supply and a traffic jam in darkening worsening conditions.
We'll need pedal power options like Fred Flintstone.
Didn't think i'd ever say this but our next car is very likely to be a hybrid, a lot depends on how quickly road pricing comes in...with the new govt anything could happen a crystal ball could be handy.
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It's ok, jump start packs will become little 2 stroke generators out of costco and all will be fine with the world.
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>> The trouble with purely electric cars is that once the dark and cold of winter
>> time come into play and the possibility of traffic congestion on those dark wet mornings
>> let alone snow get added to the mix, i for one do not relish a
>> rapidly discharging power supply and a traffic jam in darkening worsening conditions.
>> We'll need pedal power options like Fred Flintstone.
Yeah, it's a good point, although I suppose it is the same issue as with petrol engine (in that you can run out of petrol too, and would never run right up to when the petrol tank or battery were empty). Of course, it is easier to top up a fuel tank quickly.
Not sure how well electric cars, or hybrids, do in stopped or slow moving traffic. I imagine that they might so drawing power as soon as the car stops, but not sure how efficient they are in stop/start (I imagine the power spike for accelerating is similar to petrol/diesel engines).
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All electric cars will need to have a 400 hundred mile range with a 15 minute maxium charge cycle to full charge available at any filling point or home, before they become sufficiently versatile to replace the petrol or petrol/hybrid.
One point is, who is going to provide these charge points? Private entrprise wont, there is no profit in charging cars.
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The greenies always conveniently forget that electric cars need power generation. The battries also use large amounts of precious metals and are very hard to dispose of.
I've got a big (diesel) car. It does 50+mpg and costs £110/year to tax. Goes quite well too. I just don't see the point of 'all electric'.
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Agree with MLC. I can see to some extent the point of electric cars for use in town - but no-one can answer the question I've posed before: what do you do about charging if you park on the street (as most people do who live and work in towns)?
If you run an extension lead from the house, someone will trip over it and sue you, or teenagers coming back from the pub will unplug it for a jolly jape - or even break into the house through the window where the lead is coming from.
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>> Agree with MLC. I can see to some extent the point of electric cars for
>> use in town - but no-one can answer the question I've posed before: what do
>> you do about charging if you park on the street (as most people do who
>> live and work in towns)?
It's a very good point, and might suggest that it will never happen or that, if it does, some people could adopt much earlier than others.
I have never really thought about it, because I do have the capability to charge at home (although it might warrant the addition of an outdoor power socket).
Maybe you'll have to take the battery out and charge it inside! :)
That might not sound too arduous when petrol is £3 a gallon, and having a spare battery in the boot will be like having a can of petrol (albeit slightly less flammable).
Maybe it is better suited to the US, where everybody can have at least two garages.
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Sat 22 May 10 at 12:45
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>> The greenies always conveniently forget that electric cars need power generation.
Not really a greenie myself, but I think that the long term argument would be that you can eventually make the power generation much greener that burning fossil fuels in a car. As I have said before, having a car generate its own power, is much like having a petrol engine in your iPod (albeit that there are clear logistical reasons why we need cars to generate their own power for now). Ideally power companies should focus on generating power more efficiently, and car companies should move away from power generation.
Now, I really have no idea of the time frame for this and certainly no idea when everybody would be driving these, if ever (although I do think that I personally would be attracted to buying all electric in that 5 year time frame)
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>> Private entrprise wont, there is no profit in charging cars.
Maybe not enough profit to have the equivalent of a service station, but maybe in car parks that are already profitable. Of course, it all comes down to how much you would be able to charge for a charge.
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www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00scy0d/Costing_the_Earth_Rare_Earth_Metals/
If you believe what is said in this interesting BBC item then we have challenging times ahead.
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00scy0d/Costing_the_Earth_Rare_Earth_Metals/
>>
>> If you believe what is said in this interesting BBC item then we have challenging
>> times ahead.
Thanks for sharing that Henry, very interesting. Mind you, it doesn't actually sound that bad. The supplies aren't going to be exhausted, it is just that China currently has a stranglehold. As one of the experts says, the world will just have to decide if it really wants green tech and to bear the cost in terms of mining/pollution.
There seem to be other approaches too, such as getting them from titanium, but it is perhaps as simple as mining them elsewhere (and ramping up that mining) or just paying China over the odds (their economy is growing quickly, but the wealth per capita is still very low compared to the western world, and is to be predicted to be so for decades, so we have a lot of buying leverage).
The Yanks will soon be back drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, so that they are not beholden to the Middle East, and no doubt they will soon be digging up their national parks to make sure that they are not beholden to China.
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Toyota investing $50m in Tesla Motors - Zero
