|
I think we already have enough unenforced and/or unenforceable laws. A curfew for young drivers way well save lives, which is clearly a good thing, but how can it possible be enforced and by whom? There is also a proposed limit on the number of passengers a young driver can carry which may cause problems for young people car sharing to get to college etc
|
Who is running the hare this time? Last report I can find was the ABI late last year.
As you say it's unenforceable. By the time you've built in the necessary exceptions for work, education, unforeseen circumstance it would be as full of holes as a Swiss cheese. Even if Plod took it seriously he'd be more or less randomly stopping people who looked under 25 (or maybe 30).
Falls at the first hurdle.
|
|
Full report in today's Times refers to "Proposals being considered by Ministers" Most likely outcome is that it will be seen as too difficult and unenforceable so they will press ahead with it
Last edited by: Meldrew on Tue 26 Mar 13 at 08:38
|
>> Full report in today's Times refers to "Proposals being considered by Ministers"
Pay walled then?
"Proposals being considered by Ministers" is a stock phrase. Usual meaning Ministers know proposal x form pressure group y won't fly but are going through the motions.
|
|
Yes I think it is in the subscription section so I can't post a link but the gist of it is here
|
I was subjected to wearing "P" plates on my car for the first year after passing my test, also an absolute 40mph speed limit and it was enforced. The licence was printed red instead of the full licence green. Get caught and the police confiscated your licence for six months, no courts involved, then start your years probation again.
We don't have the enforcement capacity or political will in the UK, (spineless politicians).
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 26 Mar 13 at 08:57
|
My first job involved night shifts. How would I get to work?
Always surprised that younger drivers considered more dangerous at night - I always thought the opposite with quiet roads, fewer pedestrians, etc.
Much better system is to forbid the carrying of passengers for the first year.
|
>> Much better system is to forbid the carrying of passengers for the first year.
>>
Disagree we found with all our kids that driving with mum or dad in the car, or on family trips, once they had passed their test was a great way to gain experience on faster roads further away from home.
Forbidding passengers for the first year is a recipe for picking up bad habits or making costly mistakes driving with nobody else in the car
|
|
I haven't read the report, but when the idea has been mooted before it was to prohibit the carrying of passengers unless a full licence holder over a certain age (25?) was supervising from the passenger seat.
|
I read recently that the stats showed about 1750 or so died last year on the roads. Pretty damned good for a population of nearly 70 million. Leave us alone.
Look where I live. 5,000 dead in 37m. 3 kids in 18 months round the corner from me, and that's within clear sight of the police station.
|
>> I read recently that the stats showed about 1750 or so died last year on
>> the roads. Pretty damned good for a population of nearly 70 million. Leave us alone.
>>
>> Look where I live. 5,000 dead in 37m. 3 kids in 18 months round the
>> corner from me, and that's within clear sight of the police station.
>>
Exactly. We have about the safest roads in the world, and yet still Brake, the EU, etc. expect zero fatalities, which is just impractical given the number of cars on the roads and the vagaries of their controllers, i.e. us!
|
>> Disagree we found with all our kids that driving with mum or dad in the
>> car, or on family trips, once they had passed their test was a great way
>> to gain experience on faster roads further away from home.
We've found that too. Uni visits are much easier sharing the driving with the prospective student.
|
While politicians seem to be happy to put in place laws that criminalise more and more of our young people, the results can only do more damage society.
Only last week a visit from the Police made to a women who had posted on Facebook that she would like to 'egg' David Cameron. Orwell's 1984 is creeping upon us............
|
>> had posted
>> on Facebook that she would like to 'egg' David Cameron. Orwell's 1984 is creeping upon
>> us............
>>
An interesting difference is that it is people themselves who have installed the snooping devices into their homes, not the state.
There is no need for Big Brother to read your thoughts when people rush to post them anyway on Facebook.
In Orwell's world the state would have compelled people to carry mobile phones and to constantly log their whereabouts. Now they are eager to do the job themselves.
|
Here's the report from The Guardian.
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/26/new-drivers-night-time-curfew
Consultative paper promised in next couple of months. I'll be surprised if we see it before the summer recess.
|
>> In Orwell's world the state would have compelled people to carry mobile phones and to
>> constantly log their whereabouts. Now they are eager to do the job themselves.
>>
many a true word is spoken in jest. (This has been posted before, I believe)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ380SHZvYU
Software exists that is actively mining this "big data" on a huge scale for commercial purposes - but it could just as easily be used by the security services. Both reassuring and unsettling at the same time.
|
|
If you don't want to be tracked by your phone it is not enough to switch it off - you must also remove the sim card, allegedly. Advantage of an iPhone is that it can be removed without taking the back off and removing battery first. Not that I am that neurotic BTW!
|
>> If you don't want to be tracked by your phone it is not enough to
>> switch it off - you must also remove the sim card, allegedly.
And thats all it is, - allegation. If the phone is turned off, the sim card cant be tracked by anything as it has no RF, Wifi connection or GPS signal.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 26 Mar 13 at 20:04
|
>> If you don't want to be tracked by your phone it is not enough to switch it off
It's best not to switch it off but just remove the battery (if possible)
If you switch a mob phone off in the usual manner it sends a signal to the network informing so and thus records your current location. Ifyou remove the battery the phone doesn't do the magical handshake with the network and the location will be recorded as the last time the phone sent a discrete handshake with the network.
IIIRC there was a case a few years ago (can't remember which one) where someone was kidnapped and the police were sent on a wild goose chase because the mob phone battery was removed several miles away from where it last did its discrete handshake with the network.
|
>> >> Much better system is to forbid the carrying of passengers for the first year.
>> >>
>> Disagree we found with all our kids that driving with mum or dad in the
>> car, or on family trips, once they had passed their test was a great way
>> to gain experience on faster roads further away from home.
>> Forbidding passengers for the first year is a recipe for picking up bad habits or
>> making costly mistakes driving with nobody else in the car
>>
>>
Sorry, should have been clearer. I believe the system mooted allows a passenger provided they're a family member aged over 25.
|
>> Sorry, should have been clearer. I believe the system mooted allows a passenger provided they're
>> a family member aged over 25.
Still going to stuff a lot of legitimate usage eg my daughter driving her brother or (later) vice versa. Is an Uncle with a foreign licence a family member?
How about one of your colleagues who flew before he could drive. CPL/IR but he cannot run his colleagues from Kidlington to their digs?
It's just too complicated to legislate for.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 26 Mar 13 at 20:43
|
|
If you stick restrictions on young drivers, - curfews, speed, passengers, motorways, anything - all you do is just lengthen the time they need to get the required experience to be better drivers.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 26 Mar 13 at 21:12
|
>> If you stick restrictions on young drivers, - curfews, speed, passengers, motorways, anything - all
>> you do is just lengthen the time they need to get the required experience to
>> be better drivers.
I think I'm the second in 24 hours to say I rarely agree with Z but......
|
Curfew for Young Drivers Proposed - Bromptonaut
