Once upon a time honest and integrity existed, but not in the Used car sales trade. We were told things have changed and you could 'buy with confidence' at a Main Dealer.
What a load of tosh if my experience of the past week are anything to go by. Looking for a replacement car for my wife, the following has happened.
1. Rang up about car No1 at a garage 80 miles away. "2 owner, full main dealer history". I drove down, checked the car out and found the salesman had made a 'mistake' and it was 4 owners and one stamp in the service book
2. Saw a car online and wanting to avoid another wasted journey, I spoke with the sales manager at the Dealership. Definitely one owner and he read out all the service dates from the book. He then sent more photographs of the car. Job done, just one small scratch on the bumper that he promised to have fixed. Arranged a time to travel up and complete the paperwork. At close of business the day prior to travel, I receive an e-mail stating that the car had been sold to someone else. Apparently, my deposit only 'reserved' the car, it didn't 'secure' it. If you know what the difference is, I'd be happy to know.
3. Third time lucky? Find another car. Speak on the phone to salesman and relate my previous experience. 'Biggest dealer of this manufacturer in the UK' says the salesman. 'We look after our customers' etc etc. Deal negotiated, deposit left. I managed to get an extension to the 3 month warranty and the dropping of a ridiculous £60 'admin' fee. Everybody is happy, deposit left. This morning I receive an e-mail and phone call from the Sales manager. "The admin fee shouldn't have been removed and the 12 month warranty is going to cost us money...the deal is off"
What a bunch of crooks. I'm sorry, but car salesmen deserve everything that is wrote about them. Doesn't seem to make a jot of difference if it's a main dealer or not. Non seemed bothered about their reputation. We've decided to keep the car we have. At least I know I'm not going to be stiffed then
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There are some arf decent car dealers about though, not a lot I'll grant you, and most of em are in Cornwall anyway :)
Thing is ya see, in large towns & cities there are plenty of punters, like, but in places (like Cornwall) reputations are built (or lost) on trust & service.
I've bought my last 4 cars from the same dealer down ere and I wouldn't hesitate to go back to him again ... if he had anything I fancied (apart from his wife)
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All three dealers sound like large urban glass palace type places, probably chain owned bigger and more layers of management the worse they get, would that be right?.
Might be a generalisation but smaller family owned businesses, and this applies to indies and main dealer alike, with long serving staff are where you usually find good customer care and a straight handshake-is-my-word practice, well thats been my experience over the years.
My previous work showed these types of dealers to have a loyal customer base not necessarily in their immediate locality either, often a loyal long serving staff too...i'll name one that stand out and thats Spot of Chasetown (nr Burtonwood Staffs) Citroen dealer, turn the attitude clock back 30 years as you walk through the door, nothing wrong with that in my book.
When i owned the Hilux i was a member of a relevant model forum, there were several of us in the area who had nothing but praise for both the sales and especially the afterservice side of the family owned Northampton Toyota dealer, didn't pull your pants down either.
It ended up with some forum owners of the model travelling over 100 miles for servicing from our local dealer due to the lack of good service they found elsewhere.
Good dealers are around you just have to find them, sadly the attitude and i agree at calling it crooked seems to be on the increase overall in large faceless palaces, a reflection of the general decline in honour/honesty/decency of the times we find ourselves in led from the very top monkey see monkey do.
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Well blow me down thats bad news...
www.expressandstar.com/news/2011/04/09/15-jobs-lost-in-citroen-dealership-closure/
sad loss that, the senior salesman, only two ever when i visited, had been there some 25 years and that was 5 years ago when i last delivered cars to them.
Some really nice people worked there.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Thu 21 Mar 13 at 10:55
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My first MOT is due soon. I am not going to let my dealer play any games with me, so I am going to get it MOT'ed first at a local MOT only place. I will then get it serviced at the dealer for warranty reasons before finally enjoying motoring without requiring a trip to the dealers.
I had a similar experience when buying my brand new Panda, which is why I ended up buying it 90 miles away in Birmingham.
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>> My first MOT is due soon. I am not going to let my dealer play
>> any games with me, so I am going to get it MOT'ed first at a
>> local MOT only place. I will then get it serviced at the dealer for warranty
>> reasons before finally enjoying motoring without requiring a trip to the dealers.
>>
>> I had a similar experience when buying my brand new Panda, which is why I
>> ended up buying it 90 miles away in Birmingham.
>>
Let the main dealer MOT it. Anything other than consumables should be warranty work anyway.
The Panda has so few miles on it I cant imagine it could fail on anything.
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Rats, how long is your warranty? Assume your MOT is at end of 3 years - do Fiats give 4 year warranties?
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To be (perhaps is by now) a Co-op store or similar... www.flickr.com/photos/coastermadmatt/7904432062/in/set-72157613195605238/
Older images of the dealer as it was show it's just the type of place Citroen are dropping in favour of the bigger out of town outlets.
We had a similar smaller family owned Citroen dealers not too far away where it wasn't unusual to see a DS or 2CV about the place. Citroen dumped them as a main dealer a couple of years ago but they seem to have some loose connection still and they offer Citroen servicing alongside their new Korean dealership.
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>> To be (perhaps is by now) a Co-op store or similar... www.flickr.com/photos/coastermadmatt/7904432062/in/set-72157613195605238/
>>
I'm quite upset by this for some reason, thanks for linking those pics FL...Spot was one of the last dealers still working out of small non corporate clone palace premises.
I used to park just round the corner from the frontage when possible as the road outside was quite busy and the corner site is on a small roundabout, dead end that side road but with a school so tried to avoid peak school times.
Always treated like an old friend there, plus a nice cup of tea made by one of the lovely ladies.
Another good one lost, best of luck in your next search MLC.
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I nearly always buy from small dealerships that have been around a while and the two Daihatsu dealers I have used always give great service and we have never had issue with them - the one I currently use at Morcott is especially good.
I found the large Hyundai dealer at Milton Keynes to be a mixed bag - sales were great, service department a mixed bag and I wont be taking the Matrix to them but to the Morcott dealer who will tackle anything and with a labour rate still under £70 an hour they are quite a bargin.
Small main dealers have tended to serve me best over the years, especially family run outfits.
I dont agree about Toyota at Northampton GB, I found them to be a bunch of stuck up, pushy idiots although that is only the sales dept.
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>> I dont agree about Toyota at Northampton GB, I found them to be a bunch
>> of stuck up, pushy idiots although that is only the sales dept.
That surprises me, but i used to deliver cars to them regularly and was always welcome so was a known face, maybe my experience as a stranger buyer might have been different., they did me a very good deal with the Hilux and looked after it and me very well at very fair prices.
The service manager it has to be said is an absolute credit to the place, knows her onions too, quite happy for me to provide my own bulk bought premium engine oil which knocked the servicing bills down considerably.
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>> Well blow me down thats bad news...
>> sad loss that, the senior salesman, only two ever when i visited, had been there
>> some 25 years and that was 5 years ago when i last delivered cars to
>> them.
>> Some really nice people worked there.
>>
I feel the same about the Citroen garage in Woking, Bollingmores, which has closed. I got on very well with them, and they too are a sad loss. (not to be confused with their branch in Sunbury which is still open)
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As ever GB straight to the point.. Your posts are always worth noting.
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@Dog very funny nice boy.;)
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I would have thought you'd have some comeback against dealers two and three.
Presumably the 'deposits' were direct debits taken over the 'phone, in which case there would be evidence of the transactions.
Fraud perhaps?
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>> I would have thought you'd have some comeback against dealers two and three.
>>
>> Presumably the 'deposits' were direct debits taken over the 'phone, in which case there would
>> be evidence of the transactions.
>>
>> Fraud perhaps?
As long as deposit returned, there is no civil or criminal offence at work. Funny thing is tho, I wonder how hard it would have been to recover your deposit if it was the buyer who decided to pull out.
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In cases 2 & 3 you entered into a legally binding contract - there was an offer and acceptance, then 'consideration' passed (the deposit). It would need to have been documented in some way to prove it, unless you have a witness. So, you can sue for losses due to breech of contract.
I do have a car trader client who was successfully used for just this thing. I'm not sure I could be bothered though....
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Problem here is very few are interested in good service or loyalty. Pretty much the same in many industries just now. Why bother about potential of repeat business down the line when there's a chance you personally won't be there to either gain from it or earn from it.
So if you have someone at end of phone playing you off against other dealers, no matter how convincing they sound, and someone walks in with readies or a finance deal and they are there, live and ready to sign, then thats what they will go with.
Conversely, I was speaking to a van supplier today who deals in second hand vans. He puts videos of every van on his website, loads of photos including documentation etc. He was saying business was brisk and had sold 8 vans the previous week through his wbsite and they delivered so no actual face to face customer contact.
I always like Skoda dealers as many of them were family owned but they seem to be getting swallowed up now by the Arnold Clarks of this world.
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Skoda=Skoda in the past-now Skoda=VW!
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>> I always like Skoda dealers as many of them were family owned but they seem
>> to be getting swallowed up now by the Arnold Clarks of this world.
>>
A local family owned Skoda dealer dodged the glass palace route (it is a small site) and has become a successful end of lease Motability outlet, a small stock of less than 20k mile cars and cars to order.
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Where's that ON? Not West End Skoda?
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>> Where's that ON? Not West End Skoda?
>>
No, this outfit. Not been Skoda since VW took over.
www.robertblackandson.co.uk/
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 22 Mar 13 at 20:43
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>> I always like Skoda dealers as many of them were family owned
So do I although I haven't been in one for ages. But a young, mechanically hip sort of cousin-in-law here showed up in a very tidy 2 grand green, er, small post VAG model, can't recall its name just now, 1600 cc petrol. Gave me a bit of nostalgia for the Skoda Experience which was always good for me except when it wasn't. From the place where I used to get parts in my old Estelle days, bit south of here, not even properly into Worthing. Might fall by for a squint next time I'm passing.
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>>breech of contract.
I hope they haven't trousered the deposits.
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>> In cases 2 & 3 you entered into a legally binding contract - there was
>> an offer and acceptance, then 'consideration' passed (the deposit). It would need to have been documented in some way to prove it, unless you have a witness. So, you can
>> sue for losses due to breech of contract.
That is true. In the same way that a dealer can keep some or all the deposit to cover re-advertising. ie. the wronged party can be compensated to put them back into the position they would have been had the other party not broken the contract.
I'd love to see people do it to these dealers who try to play it both ways
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My daughter who lives Oop North keeps an eye open for an 80 year old widow who lives alone in her street. Last year the lady was flooded out, house took 6 months to dry out and car wrecked in the garage. 4 year old Suzuki with 3000 miles recorded, she only used it locally, supermarket and back and not much else.
She didn't take any advice or take anyone with her; went to the local dealer and was sold a brand new one when a second hand one would have suited her needs and usage much better. She could have found something suitable for the insurance payout but got sold a brand new one at list price
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She may have wanted a new one.
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>>Last year the lady was flooded out, house took 6 months to dry out
6 months, blimey! - near neighb has had the dehumidifiers in for 3 months and I thought THAT was long enough :(
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Having bought a few cars from dealers over the last few years. BMW - pushy, arrogant, good product knowledge though. Not going to buy one again. VW Inchcape were dreadful - very poor admin by the sales chap. Skoda were the most honest approach to sales (sales chap was having a fag and coffee when I rolled up. Told me he wanted to finish his fag first...fair enough) Honda were OK - Volvo delaership down the road seem very good. May go back to VW or Volvo possibly Skoda...
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>> VW Inchcape were dreadful
The Sharan came from them. The dealership in question were trading under another name, but were part of Inchcape. The sales manager was a right arrogant so and so who knew very little about the product and put us both off.
A couple of months later they had a pre reg in the desired spec which was the cheapest in the country on autotrader at the time, so we braved another visit to be met with a very charming 40 something female sales lady. We got on really well with her, she knew the product well (owned one herself) and was a no nonsense kind of gal. Told her about our previous experience and she gave a knowing look....anyway, 45 mins later the deal was done - no drawn out negotiations. Stated that we were in a rush, so she did the usual "I'll speak to my manager routine" came back with a figure which she said was absolute best they could do, take it or leave it.
Probably the best face to face experience I've had.
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Some of you may remember the car in question it was 6 month old 2006 Golf GTi - my brother in law now runs it. I effectively had to pay twice for it 'cos the useless buffoon hadn't checked to see if my cheque had been received and cleared (it had as a matter of fact)and the accounts dept wasn't open, and I had to rustle up 25k on a Saturday morning so we could get home, as we'd travelled 100 miles to collect it. Only thanks to Smile Banking that we managed to get it sorted. I swore blind never to darken their door and managed to put another couple off buying a car from them that morning....
Last edited by: R.P. on Sun 24 Mar 13 at 21:18
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Yes, my experience of buying a new Golf from Inchcape VW Chester was something I won't repeat in a hurry. Only that we were buying a car from stock, and the horror at the thought of going through something similar elsewhere, made me stick with it.
I had a pretty good idea how things worked for sales people and the snag with somewhere like an Inchcape owned VW dealer is that the salesman has to abide by two sets of processes, VW's and Inchcape's. We just wanted to buy the car cash and I knew that wasn't a great deal for the salesman or the dealership, but it's only due to the "Car Salesman" thread currently running on PistonHeads that I've realises it could actually cost the salesman money to sell a car cash and with no add-ons such as GAP, paint protection etc.
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Same here. I have to say though the paint protection on the Gti (Auto Glym) did what it said - never needed a thorough clean - just a wash off with a hose. Sourced my own GAP at a third of their quote. Garages seem to dislike cash buyers. The CRV was the exception - good bloke there - he stopped me paying the full price for the car before I collected just paying a £100.00 deposit on a CC as the company had cash-flow problems. He gave me a cash price for the Golf outside the deal - said it wouldn't be the best price and told me what to sell it for privately (which I subsequently did) - the muppet at Inchcape had also cocked up the GTi's history giving it a HPI flag in error (right number plate - a personal one - wrong car) I could have cheerfully skewered the useless **** that day. Inchcape Shresbury VAG.
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We had the Auto Glym on our Golf VI SE in the UK and I agree it was excellent and worth the money - particularly if (as we were at the time) you're planning to keep the car (which we didn't).
Had similarly poor experiences of Inchcape Ford in Guildford, probably went there 3 or 4 times with the serious intention of buying a car and every time went elsewhere due to their lack of effort / poor deal - twice to buy a Ford from another dealer (in Cobham IIRC). Again, we're cash buyers so I guess their sales incentives are for different customer profiles ?
Having said that, the Guildford/Woking VW dealer wasn't exactly competitive either in my experience, found another a few miles away that was competitive and gave great customer service too.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Mon 25 Mar 13 at 06:09
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>> We had the Auto Glym on our Golf VI SE in the UK and I
>> agree it was excellent and worth the money -
Depends what "the money" is. I quite like Diamondbriite and you can buy the kits on eBay for a tenner and it couldn't be easier to put on, and you know it's been done properly.
Or get a proper valeter to do it - would still cost less than the dealer.
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>> Sourced my own GAP at a third of their quote. Garages seem
>> to dislike cash buyers.
A salesman can easily earn as much commission out of flogging you Finance and Insurance (F&I) as they can out of flogging you the car. More, sometimes. It's not that they dislike cash buyers, but rather that they don't make as much profit out of them, and the salesman doesn't earn as much commission out of them.
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>> 6 months, blimey! - near neighb has had the dehumidifiers in for 3 months and
>> I thought THAT was long enough :(
>>
I had 4 dehumidifiers for 3 months just for one burst lead pipe in my London house, with just one wall affected (did go all weekend before I came home and there was a quality flow coming out of it.)...so God knows what the whole house flooded must be like.
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For those looking to buy from a VW or Audi dealer and avoid Inchcape... I think one of their brands is Smith Knight Fay. My VW was from Smith Knight Fay local to me and they were great - but I dealt with the fleet side.
In fact I should have left it to the lease company but the presales side had been so good I made sure the dealer got the order. They deal with a lot of VW/Audi fleet sales for the UK.
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There is a VAG super franchise opening in Llandudno Junction soon - I believe it's wholly owned by VAG. If I do go back to one of their brands -that's where I'd go.
Last edited by: R.P. on Sun 24 Mar 13 at 22:10
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>> There is a VAG super franchise opening in Llandudno Junction soon - I believe it's
>> wholly owned by VAG. If I do go back to one of their brands -that's
>> where I'd go.
>>
If it's anything like the MB owned dealerships (there are quite a lot now) then that's not a good thing.
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>>so God knows what the whole house flooded must be like.
Like hell, I should imagine :(
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>> >>so God knows what the whole house flooded must be like.
>>
>> Like hell, I should imagine :(
>>
An acquaintance had a mains pressure pipe coupling fail in their loft while on holiday. When they returned every ceiling on both floors of the house had collapsed, all the contents were destroyed and the water was still flowing freely. I always turn the water off when our house is empty for more than a couple of days.
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I go to have a shufty round this jamjar, with a view to requesting a test drive:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201302065216699/
Looks like it's been on the forecourt a while - one of the front tyres is pretty low. Then I check out the other tyres - it's got two pairs of differently branded budget tyres on, but the pairings aren't on the axles, they are paired on side/off side.
Why does a business owner think it's OK to display a vehicle for sale in a potentially dangerous state? I still might give them a call to arrange a drive, but I'm a bit circumspect now. Had an even worse example once when I looked at a used X-Type at a franchised Jag dealer (big glass palace job). One of the tyres was showing canvas, and yet I was offered a test drive in it, hastily withdrawn when I pointed this out.
Easy things to spot, easy to sort out before presenting your wares to potential customers. And yet used car dealers consistently fail to rectify these glaring issues.
Gah.
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What is dangerous about having different makes of tyre on the same axle?
And I would guess that a car forum contributor isn't their target customer - somebody off the street is and they may have kept enough up their sleeves for a new tyre or two if the customer asks for it.
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>> What is dangerous about having different makes of tyre on the same axle?
I'm given to understand that differing tread patterns on an axle can have a negative effect on the car's ability to brake in a straight line in an emergency.
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I have braked hard in cars with 4 different makes / tread patterns. Its always pulled up more or less in a straight line.
While I wouldn't have my own car like that, its not dangerous.
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All my used cars were prepared, service and checked over before going on the forecourt.
Less hassle in the long run.
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Used car salesman deserve their reputation - Dog
