I often wondered why some people seem happy to pull out of a junction in front of me, and then not feel the need to get up to speed. I am probably a bit more assertive when pulling out than I was a few months ago, but I alway make sure that I put my foot down to ensure that I don't slow others down.
The other day I read, somewhere on this forum I think, a suggestion that people do it to save on fuel economy. Is this really the case? If so, it seems a bit inconsiderate.
I can accept people pulling out, even when they force me to slow, but it seems a bit rude to then make sure they don't impact their mpg.
Mind you, I should be used to it. It seems to be the same mentality as people who just have to get to the train doors first, and then dawdle along the platform, regardless of how many people they are holding up.
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>> The other day I read, somewhere on this forum I think, a suggestion that people
>> do it to save on fuel economy. Is this really the case? If so, it
>> seems a bit inconsiderate.
I think you're referring to this:
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=1096&m=18584&v=e
which I mis-interpreted as slow acceleration (see following posts).
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Really annoys me when I across the parkway (it has 6 lanes of traffic, 3 both ways or more) and I want to get across damn quickly but within the limits, yet you still get idiots going 10-15mph.
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Heh heh SS, that's one of my pet hates, and I have often bitched about it on line.
Another five or ten years of trying to drive in modern Albion and you will seem to be a savage mimser-hating toad type, like me.
Last edited by: Webmaster on Fri 28 May 10 at 11:52
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Also why some people go along at 25mph (in a 30 zone) when there is only light traffic, no pedestrians etc. They always seem to have larger cars too.
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>> Also why some people go along at 25mph (in a 30 zone) when there is
>> only light traffic, no pedestrians etc. They always seem to have larger cars too.
>>
Because they want to and it not illegal. At the end of the day they are less of a problem than those who drive at 35 mph in a 30. Having to drive at 5mph less than the speed limit for a mile or so is not going to affect your journey time significantly so don't worry about them.
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Sometimes (in fact) often I drive a long at less than the speed limit, doing 30 would be crinimal and dangerious it dosn't stop so many twits on doing so and almost forcing me off the road though! But then I am talking about crowded Victorian city streets not designed for the motor vehicle.
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But there are so many of the cud-chewing so-and-sos CGN. True, it's not illegal, but it is a problem because it's annoying and pointless and obstructive. While the sensible drivers who regard a speedometer 35 as perfectly all right aren't getting in the way so much. What makes you imply that they are a problem by the way?
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"annoying" - only if you choose it to be
"pointless" presumably the driver has a reason for driving at his chosen speed. Perhaps he feels the road conditions justify it. He may be a more perceptive driver than you
"obstructive" How obstructed can you be by a vehicle that is moving at 5mph less than the limit for a mile or two, bearing in mind all the other causes of delay you face in urban driving.
Vehicles exceeding the speed limit in urban areas cause an increased danger to other road users especially the young and elderly. That is why we have speed limits. Failure of many drivers to drive with care and courtesy in towns is what has led to the demand for 20mph limits
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>> Vehicles exceeding the speed limit in urban areas cause an increased danger to other
>> road users especially the young and elderly. That is why we have speed limits. Failure
>> of many drivers to drive with care and courtesy in towns is what has led
>> to the demand for 20mph limits
>>
Actually, to take that to its logical conclusion, if everyone drove at sensible speeds and with respect for other road users (including pedestrians) then there would be no need for speed limits at all... we only have ourselves to blame for their increasing use (and enforcement of them)!
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> Also why some people go along at 25mph (in a 30 zone) when there is only light traffic
I think it's their right to choose to do so. That being said...
I've taken to overtaking them. I would say a good 85%+ magically find the accelerator pedal as soon as you're along side which tickles me, occurs so often i just factor it into my overtake by default now.
People just do not expect to be overtaken around town. It can be practiced safely too, but pretty much only a technique for when they're doing max 25.
Another technique that works when you can't overtake is to move out onto the white line, maybe even occasionally cross it slightly. That works on more than half of mimsers, they think you're magically going to squeeze past so they speed up. If they start getting lax and unresponsive to that trick, switch to the extreme left. I honestly don't know what they think i'm going to be able to do on the extreme left, fly?
Not the brightest lot but use it against them. They become focussed only on not letting you past so you can trick them into allsorts because their attention's diverted.
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In built up areas I am not so bothered: traffic lights, other junctions, buses pulling out, obstructions such as parked goods vehicles, etc. all blunt steady progress. In a 30 zone I never knowingly go above 30. It is other drivers who drive aggressibely behind me in 30 zones who I find far more irritating.
It is on A roads that slow, unaware/uncaring driving really irks me. On stretches of road limited to 60 I generally stick to 60 where possible, and it seems that some drivers almost deliberately pull out of a side road, forcing you to brake quite sharply, then take an age to get up to 40, which is the speed at which they then drive no matter what the limit is. At the slightest hint of a corner, the brakes go on and the speed reduces to 25. No thought of using their mirrors, or if they do, no consideration that perhaps other people might wish to get somewhere to meet an appointment, before nightfall, or the end of the world, etc.
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>> They become focussed only on not letting you past so you can trick them into allsorts because their attention's diverted.
I'm not entirely convinced that deliberately diverting someone's attention whilst they are driving is a particularly good idea. You are adding to their list of perceived hazards and may contribute to their failure to notice something rather important - that motorbike, for instance.
If he/she is deliberately baulking you, it is plain that he/she is not a very good driver. Best not give them something extra to be thinking about.
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Regarding the thread title specifically, it's because it doesn't use as much fuel.
Regarding the fact that they inconvenience you when it makes you have to slow down, they obviously don't care. In the final analysis, it's best to just accept that not everyone drives in the same style as you do.
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A couple of comments:
Oil IS a finite resource - leave some for your grandchildren
The limit is a MAXIMUM, not a target speed.
Why is everyone in such a hurry - set off a minute or so earlier and relax.
Would you behave in the same way if it was a police car - and how do you know it isn't an unmarked car!
Have some consideration for others - we all have as much right to be on the road as you - even if we are travelling slower than the limit.
Why is it that whenever I am travelling at 30mph in a 30 (or 40 in a 40, 50 in a 50 etc - all true speed froma tomtom) there is ALLWAYS someone sitting on my bumper because I am not going fast enough for him/her.
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>>
>> Would you behave in the same way if it was a police car - and
>> how do you know it isn't an unmarked car!
>>
Just one comment;
Would YOU behave in the same way on your driving test?
Not making progress is high on the £££ list and pulling out forcing others to slow down is another favorite!
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>> Would YOU behave in the same way on your driving test?
>>
>> Not making progress is high on the £££ list
They would not fail you for having the speedo sat at 30 or 40 or very slightly below even if you had a queue behind you, B... and learners don't tend to accelerate hard anyhow, so "making progress" tends to be getting up to, and sticking to the limits... but not racing away from every set of lights/junctions, if someone was testing their 0-60 times every time they came to a set of lights I suspect that the examiner would take rather a dim view of it!
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The only bit I'd agree with the OP on is when cars come out of side raods... if they can see that there is a car approaching they should accelerate up to speed reasonably quickly so as not to inconvenience the other driver... but as for the rest such as doing 25 in a 30 (which is probably 30 on their speedo anyhow) then I don't have a problem with it as I've allowed enough time for my journey anyhow... perhaps some of you need to look at that side rather than moan at those who keep within the speed limit...
There's all sorts out there, so sometimes a little patience and forward planning comes in handy!
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>> The only bit I'd agree with the OP on is when cars come out of
>> side raods... if they can see that there is a car approaching they should accelerate
>> up to speed reasonably quickly so as not to inconvenience the other driver...
Well that is the only thing that I was moaning about (apart from people on trains), so it looks like you actually agree with me on everything :)
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I'm all for saving fuel & driving economically but,
pulling out of a side road etc. and causing another road user to slow down is a definite no, no.
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>> Well that is the only thing that I was moaning about (apart from people on
>> trains), so it looks like you actually agree with me on everything :)
>>
Quite right! And I agree with you re the trains as well! Seems others have "developed" the thread... ;-)
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>> Oil IS a finite resource - leave some for your grandchildren
If somebody pulls out an a road where everyone is doing 30, but refuses to get up to speed quickly, forcing three or four cars to slow down to 20, and then everybody has to accelerate back up to 30, is that better or worse for oil consumption, than if the first guy had just got up to speed quickly (or waited for a sufficient gap so as not to make others slow).
I know you didn't say that they do, but I highly doubt that when they pull out they are thinking about conserving global oil, rather they just don't want to affect *their* consumption.
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I don't think they even see you coming SS, and they don't look in their rear view mirror to know they've got anyone behind them.
So many people step into a car and the world ends at the boundaries of that tin box they're in.
Perception, consideration doesn't come into the equation and some of the most dangerous drivers on the road, IMHO.
Pat
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Nobody promoted going over the speed limit, that part of the discussion was brought in by the apologists.
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>> Oil IS a finite resource ...........
When natural oil runs out, we'll change to synthetic. I don't see the point of worrying about it.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sat 22 May 10 at 07:29
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>> Regarding the thread title specifically, it's because it doesn't use as much fuel.
I don't think it does, but only based on watching a Yaris's trip computer and the feeling that a short burst of acceleration is better than a long drawn out one. Do you have any evidence to back this up?
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>> >> Regarding the thread title specifically, it's because it doesn't use as much fuel.
>>
>> I don't think it does, but only based on watching a Yaris's trip computer and
>> the feeling that a short burst of acceleration is better than a long drawn out
>> one. Do you have any evidence to back this up?
>>
I am sure I remember some study a number of years ago which found that less fuel is used by accellerating briskly to your chosen speed and then cruising rather than accelerating gently to the same cruising speed.
Maybe NC or someone else knowledgeable can confirm the physics behind it.
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>> Do you have any evidence to back this up?
>>
In my car's Owners Guide it says ........
"Hints for economical driving.
Use the accelerator gently.
Change to the next higher gear as soon as possible in order to reach a lower engine speed."
I was assuming that it also applies to most other cars, but I accept that I may have beeen wrong to make that assumption.
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>> I don't think it does, but only based on watching a Yaris's trip computer and
>> the feeling that a short burst of acceleration is better than a long drawn out
>> one. Do you have any evidence to back this up?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy-maximizing_behaviors
is an interesting take on it.
I have been driving the Volvo like this now and notice we can get now around 54 mpg on most trips. On a longer run it could probably manage much more but still not the 73 quoted.
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?f=1&t=881
It kind of makes sense to me. Around 70% of the fuel used is in the engine before it even gets to the transmission. A lot of that is friction losses. So the less time the engine spends at high rpm the better. i.e. accelerate at maximum torque (around 2000rpm on the diesel) through all gears and "coast" in top gear once at speed. Don't accelerate more than the speed you need (e.g. if you see you are going to have to stop in a few hundred yards). It seems better to coast in gear (when the car shuts off the fuel supply to the engine because it is keeping it going, rather than neutral where fuel is needed to idle). I guess one could do even better by switching the engine off and on at speed, but that isn't very safe or comfortable. Presumably this is all where hybrids score; the engine only runs when it is needed to top up the overall energy required and electric motors don't suffer the same kind of losses.
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>> I often wondered why some people seem happy to pull out of a junction in
>> front of me, and then not feel the need to get up to speed.
Probably driving Boggs Snails, or saving fuel, or they always drive that way.
>> I can accept people pulling out, even when they force me to slow,
I have a vague recollection that it's contrary to advice given in the HC, but ICBW.
>> but it seems a bit rude to then make sure they don't impact their mpg.
It is.
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It's not just only the failure to accelerate. People who drive like that often mimse at junctions (i.e fail to take their chance to emerge unless the horizon is absolutely clear etc.), brake at the sight of a cat in the distance, wait unnecessarily at minor kerbside obstructions when there's plenty of space to squeeze though & be generally unaware of up-coming hazards - and hence dally & dither all the time etc. etc. (append your own list!)
It's the whole 'syndrome' that irritates me - ably summed-up by AC's verb ' to mimse' , of course.
Last edited by: kensitas on Fri 21 May 10 at 10:04
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"Mimsing" is very much in the eye of the beholder. A big fault in driving is to believe in your own perfection, disregarding the time when you may have mad a mistake or driven in a way that may have inconvenienced others, but becoming annoyed and irritated at the actions of others drivers.
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It annoys me if someone pulls out of a junction when I'm travelling at, say, 40mph and then tootles along in front of me at 20, but as soon as I show any indication of wanting to pass them - down goes their right foot.
Happens frequently.
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I keep meeting drivers who will enter the slip road of a motorway in the right hand lane but not accelerate. I'm afraid they get undertaken. I like to join as close to 70MPH as possible, that way I can adjust my speed either way to suit.
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I prefer to join at or about the same speed as the traffic in the inside lane that I'll be joining and use the slip road to adjust to that speed... it may be 70, but is often much less.
CGN, that last post sumarises it for me as well, we would do to remember that everyone's skill level is different, so what might be ok for us to do may not be for someone who, for instance, had just past their test...
Last edited by: hobby on Fri 21 May 10 at 11:25
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CGN makes a good point that is easily forgotten by experienced, habitual drivers like, er, me. Take an old favourite: the middle lane. Among the white van men and the reps, who hog it out of arrogance or ignorance, there may be a perfectly cared-for silver or blue Polo, travelling at a steady 63 while the rest of us wait our turn to overtake.
Inside is a wide-eyed young man with glasses and a side parting, or a young woman with a neat but unadventurous hairstyle, sitting unnaturally upright and staring fixedly ahead. This driver is only just brave enough to be on the motorway at all, and can't wait till it's over. Until it is, he or she has deduced that progress is faster is lane 2 than in lane 1, but the whole business of changing lanes is too terrifying to attempt more than strictly necessary. (Sitting so far forward that you can't look over your own shoulder doesn't help here, but we'll let that pass.). Flashes and similar aggressive tactics from other drivers merely heighten the fear and the consequent paralysis, but as far as I know, there's no motoring equivalent of the reassuring arm round the shoulders that such a driver really needs. And I used to be one - although I never had a Polo.
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>> Mimsing" is very much in the eye of the beholder.
No, it isn't. A lot of drivers do it and their numbers are increasing. And they will continue to increase if such people join motoring websites and then spend a lot of time and effort justifying obstructive, slow and unaware driving on various specious and sentimental grounds.
You don't have to believe in your own perfection to wish that other drivers weren't so disgustingly smug and determinedly incompetent. You just have to have been obstructed and annoyed by the carphounds day after day.
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CGN's point while true, is nothing more than wooly words *in this context*.
If someone is deliberately obstructing progress (and they're aware they are, they have mirrors). They are a purposeful obstruction.
While i think they should have the right to do that (i certainly don't want police attention diverted to "clamp down" on them just because they're an inconvenience to me), i think everyone should (and they do) have the right to say, "no, you're going too slow for me, just as you choose slower, i choose faster".
Mr Mimser should pull over regularly and yield to faster traffic he's obstructing - it's no cost to him, but a big saving to others. He certainly shouldn't be finding the accelerator pedal as he's being overtaken.
To worry about his own fuel economy at the inconvenience of others is rude and inexcusable. Feel free to do whatever you like when you're not obstructing anyone else, but if there's someone behind you, drive as you could reasonably be expected to - with purpose.
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Quite so, Craig, well said. If I sense that my progress on an A road is not quick enough for the driver behind me, I will ease off at an overtaking point and let him/her get on with it.
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>> Mr Mimser should pull over regularly and yield to faster traffic he's obstructing - it's
>> no cost to him, but a big saving to others. He certainly shouldn't be finding
>> the accelerator pedal as he's being overtaken.
Are we talking in the original context or the way the thread has developed?... if the latter then I don't agree unless we are talking of someone who is driving at well below the limit... If they want to travel at 25/30 in a 30 zone or 50 in a 60 the thats their right to do so... if you don't like it then overtake them, but there is no reason on earth why they should have to pull over... advocating that is shear arrogance... and tbh thats what I've seen from those who advocate that everyone should drive faster, or at least at the speed THEY want to!
If they were travelling at some speed well under the limit you may have a point, but thats covered in the HC which tells drivers of slow vehicles to pull over if they are causing tailbacks, but that is aimed at farm vehicles and perhaps horseboxes rather than someone who chooses to travel a little under the limit.
At the end of the day the speed merchants amongst us won't agree with me, and I won't with them, but I think that we all should try to live with each other...
I've lost count of the times when I've been driving at 55 in a NSL section, seen someone catching me up fast and moved over as far as I can for them to get past only for the "person" to chicken out and end up tailgating me for no reason at all... And then you end up with a queue because the driver right behind the slower vehicle can't or won't overtake... perhaps you should sort them out as well while you are at it!
Last edited by: hobby on Fri 21 May 10 at 14:53
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>> Are we talking in the original context or the way the thread has developed?... if the latter then I don't agree unless we are talking of someone who is driving at well below the limit... If they want to travel at 25/30 in a 30 zone or 50 in a 60
At those rates i agree with you and that's exactly what i've written above.
Make your point please caller!
You've written too much of a borderline case to make much disagreement with. Can you come back in support of 20mph in the 30 and 40 in the 60? I can mount a disagreement then :-P
>> If they were travelling at some speed well under the limit you may have a point, but thats covered in the HC which tells drivers of slow vehicles to pull over if they are causing tailbacks, but that is aimed at farm vehicles and perhaps horseboxes rather than someone who chooses to travel a little under the limit.
You're agreeing with me again unless i'm reading this wrongly?
>> tailgating me for no reason at all...
Completely different issue and *much* more severe than mimsing.
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>> You're agreeing with me again unless i'm reading this wrongly?
>>
Your post of 1318 made no mention of speed, just "mimsers", some people's definition of such people is people who are going just below the limit at the speeds i mentioned... I see that you agree with me, then, that these people aren't mimsers... glad we sorted that!
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Craig
The post to which I was responding was Diamond's:
"Also why some people go along at 25mph (in a 30 zone) when there is only light traffic, no pedestrians etc. They always seem to have larger cars too"
As I said driving a less than 5mph below the speed limit in an urban environment hardly constitutes obstruction. The driver could be driving at that speed for any number of reasons including inexperience or even because it might be the appropriate speed in the circumstances. Since in an urban environment you are seldom behind the same car for more than a mile or so the sensible thing to do is to go with the flow and avoid becoming apoplectic with rage with the at the perceived "mimsing".
Driving without consideration of other road users is of course unforgivable and deliberate speeding up whilst being overtaken is one of the most dangerous moves of all.
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>> "Also why some people go along at 25mph (in a 30 zone) when there is
>> only light traffic, no pedestrians etc. They always seem to have larger cars too"
>>
Big flash car, huge car loan , mortgaged to the hilt, and expected to waste fuel driving properly. You must be joking.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 21 May 10 at 16:23
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> As I said driving a less than 5mph below the speed limit in an urban environment hardly constitutes obstruction.
That's missing half the story -- in conjuction with 25 mph will go slow negotiation of hazards and excessively slow acceleration.
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In another, current-ish thread of my origin, I said that my Hyundai speedo read 30 when, in reality, I was doing 25 and I seemed to get berated by most for making the point and I conceded that I was clearly wrong and they/you were obviously right.
So it is just possible that anyone driving a car without having carried out research to determine their vehicle's accuracy might just think that they were right and everyone was being impatient, hence "mimsing" (whatever that may mean) along at 25mph when their own speedo was showing 30mph?
Last edited by: kb on Fri 21 May 10 at 18:05
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KB, firstly, no one berrated you, merely pointed out experience from others.
Secondly your right. Someone mimsing along in a 50 at 45 might well think they were doing 50, it gets worse when they think they can get prosecuted for doing 51mph, so they play it safe at an indicated 49 or 48. Which can be a real 43mph.
Then somone like me comes along who likes to make progress at a real 55mph knowing one is unlikely to get nicked. Thats a bigish difference in progress in a 50mph limit.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 21 May 10 at 18:11
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Its only the advent of sat nav that has enlightened many to how accurate their respective speedos are. My Charade was terrible - at an indicate 60 it was doing just 54 but in my old Carina, at an indicated 60, is doing 59 so if I came across my old car, it would appear to the uninitiated that they were deliberately going 5 mph slower than the limit. They would think they were spot on.
A bit of live and let live is required sometimes. Do you shove an old lady out the way on the pavement when she potters along or yell at her to get out the way. One would hope not.
The same principles of common decency also apply on the roads and its sad that surround people with a metal box and they behave in a way they wouldnt dare to in polite company.
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Right on Zero. More or less spot on. The 'new motorist' (so to speak) is a bit of a mimser by definition, alas.
Stunorthants is right too though. Very rude driving or behaviour while driving does far more harm than good, and may cause pain and fear to the less gifted...
... but sounding off about it all here, among equals as it were, is more permissible.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 21 May 10 at 19:17
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True versus indicated speed is a bit of a pain, what with all the average speed cameras we have around here. In the absence of anything else, you can only assume that your speedo is accurate, even though it probably isn't. My Audi has built-in nav which, despite the great expense, does not indicate satellite-based speed and I've no idea whether the speedo over-reads or not. So I probably mimse at 45 in a 50 limit. Or do I?
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I have found that VAG speedos are set about 3mph down. If you have the latter climate control, you can fiddle with a sequence of button pushing to get the real actual speed in one of the temperature displays.
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According to my satnav (and confirmed with the known 1000rpm speed in 5th), Zero, my Skoda speedo reads about 10% over... 70 on the speedo is 63 in real life...
BTW thats another way of testing your speedo's accuracy... look for the published mph figure at 1000rpm in 5th and then check against the speedo at 70... most manuufacturers do them, just it can take some digging sometimes...
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It's a bit irrelevant Dieselfitter, along with kb's case.
Your driving in other situations where you can't reach cruising speed will clearly mark you out from a mimser:
* Ability to negotiate hazards effectively
* Ability to conform to protocol (reduce the surprise factor on other motorists)
* General appearance of being "switched on"
On top of that, if you choose to do 15 in a 30, 32 in a 60 then so be it. It's your entirely choice to do so. Any competent driver will safely negotiate the hazard you represent in their stride.
But i (as a fellow road user) expect you not to purposely hold others up, and that means pulling over every so often in your 15-20mph jaunt if no safe passing is possible.
If you choose to deviate from the norm, then the exceptions should made on your side, it's only fair and polite.
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The OP is about vehicles pulling out of a junction but not accelerating and hence forcing the car behind to slow rapidly or overtake, possibly on the wrong side of the road,
As for driving at 45 in a 50 MPH limit, well - what's the big deal about that?
I drive according to the road + the road/weather conditions and if that means I'm doing 40 in a 50 MPH limit, then that's tough titties,
Conversely, If I think a road is ok for 98 MPH, then I'll drive at 98 MPH
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CraigP pointed out...."It's a bit irrelevant Dieselfitter, along with kb's case".
And Harleyman also noted in reply to a post of mine..."That reading for the speedo; presumably you checked it with a GPS or similar, and if it's only 5mph out that doesn't sound too bad. On a car like the i10 i'd suggest it's irrelevant anyway".
Well, that's told me good and proper - irrelevant on two counts! (probably best to insert a smiley at this point... :-)
My simple (but irrelevant) point was just that it would be helpful to have a speedo that corresponded, within a reasonable margin, with GATSO's, SPECS and Police detectors and might have overcome people unknowingly 'mimsing' to the annoyance of others. I have my own thoughts regarding speed, speeding, speed limits but they're probably not relevant and I won't burden you with them.
But again, and for the last time, I put my hands up and say, OK, I'm clearly mistaken having been put right by those who know much more about these things than I. I've watched, and sometimes participated in, this topic as it has been discussed (often resulting in quite enthusiastic banter) for as many years as I was registered at 'the other place' (eight years or so) and I'm sure nobody will mind if I carefully reverse out of this one and leave it you.
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does your speedo work in reverse? ;)
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Ah, valid point. I believe it does work when you go backwards, doesn't it? I must check tomorrow. I'm quite confident that it most perfectly calibrated and will keep me out of trouble with the authorities...... :-)
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Why do some people accelerate so slowly? - Focusless
