Now, I know we all love these debates ! So...
One of our sales reps needs to change his car. He currently chooses to opt out of our company car scheme and in return we pay him 45p a mile for the first 10,000 miles of business use a year and I think 25p or close to for any additional business mileage in his own car.
He does approximately 30,000 business mikes a year so to save wear on your Sunday morning brain cells he claims something around £9500 tax free to run his car each year.
He's quite a good salesman and with commission he'll easily earn enough to pay high rate tax so he's saving on paying bik on a company car too. ( Maybe safe to assume a couple of grand a year he's saved there )
We would happily give him a company car but he prefers to do his own thing so fair enough. if we were to supply a car it would be something of the order of a Mondeo / Insignia / Passat estate type of thing.
He needs a lot of loadspace to carry samples and whichever way you cut it, a large-ish estate makes the most sense.
So, he needs a large-ish ( good loadspace ) car
He needs something reliable / economical
He wants to make his costs at least balance against a company car's
At present he has an oldish ( well old in miles ) Mondeo 2.0 diesel auto estate ( he's not bothered whether the replacement is auto or not ) The current car might fetch £3-4k on a good day and he's prepared to top that up to a total budget of £10k.
Anyway, the other day, knowing that I'm a car bore, he was asking me what I thought he should be looking at. My immediate reaction was to advise him to let us get him a company car but for some reasons of his own he really doesn't want to do that.
OK then, given the above what does the panel recommend I should be suggesting to him when I see him tomorrow? I've kind of got stuck on "buy another Mondy" but then I would wouldn't I?
A broader view would be most welcome !
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Sun 10 Mar 13 at 10:53
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Edit - no, I don't know what a business "Mike" is either. Should read "miles"...apologies !
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At first i can quite understand why he wants to do his own thing, the three incredibly boring vehicles you've mentioned would feature highly in my 'never in your wildest dreams matee' list of cars designed to encourage one gratefully into an early grave.
Then i see he actually has one of these windowed eurovans bought with his own money so thats my theory out the window.;)
I was hoping this was going to be a whats interesting and left field out there...or could we pretend that he wants something interesting instead of the usual boring standard issue rep stuff?
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Fair point GB. I think that's exactly the question. What lies beyond the obvious but still meets the brief?
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Does he want something different to normal H or is he a strictly so long as it does the job he doesn't care less white goods type of chap?
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No, he does like cars but needs to have practicality too. I do know he's sniffing around an S-Max ( he's got 3 kids ) and he lusts after an A6 Avant but can't find anything suitable within his budget by way of a clue ! (We could maybe just about stretch to a mildly second hand example of either of the above but he's adamant he wants to do it himself )
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Sun 10 Mar 13 at 11:45
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At 30k miles a year, it has to be economical, a pleasant place to be, quiet and comfortable. And of course big enough for his stuff. Exciting soon palls when its your office.
To be fair, the S-Max diesel sounds ideal.
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What about one of those Alteas you had? Is the loadspace big? Are they comfortable etc?
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>> What about one of those Alteas you had? Is the loadspace big? Are they comfortable
>> etc?
Loadspace huge, lots of toys, well equipped, good ride, handles well, economical, shlepped it to Italy and back no problem, bit noisy, crap stereo.
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Sounds like the budget is fairly rigid and assume Diesel is the order of the day.
Off the top of me head the typical options in no particular order, 5 series, C5, Accord, Mazda 6 (diligent research reqd due to the poor previous Diesel model), C/E class, Avensis, V70...obviously some of those mkes will struggle to get into budget unless older but thats not to say they couldn't more durable overall.
Slightly off field, Legacy, Chrysler 300C.
Course depending how broad minded your chap is to alternatives, the field could be opened up if he considered a petrol estate featuring a good under boot floor spare wheel well and going LPG, he does the mileage to make it worth it.
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The new model C5 estate is indeed a nice looking thing. Wonder if they're screwed together properly? Depreciation seems to be an issue but as he'd be buying second hand and most probably running it up to 200k miles or so that could actually be an advantage.
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Depreciation seems to be an issue ....that could actually be
an advantage.>>
Its that very depreciation which has me quite seriously considering the rare Suzuki Kizashi (2012 8k @ £13850) and replacing the old faithful, got the funds, hardly any point in not spending the money as savings its not even keeping pace with inflation.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sun 10 Mar 13 at 12:25
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Bit of man maths there gb.
Aren't the Kizashis all CVTs?
You can put £11,520 each into stocks and shares ISAs on 6th April if you've already used this year's allowances. You might consider doing that with somebody like Hargreaves Lansdown, and if you don't feel like plunging into equities or corporate bond funds at the current levels then maybe Standard Life's GARS fund - it's diversified within itself and targeting returns of Euribor +5% and so far has done that reasonably well. Although it's gone up over the last few months its performance has been hammered by equities, but it will fare much better if the market turns.
Of course the value of your investments could go down as well as up...and I am not giving any sort of advice, just ideas!
The return on investment in a car is more predictable and will be extremely negative - but it might be more enjoyable than losing money on your savings:-)
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>> Bit of man maths there gb.
>>
Isn't that normal?
>> Aren't the Kizashis all CVTs?
>>
In UK i believe so, in any case i want AWD and auto but not of automated manual or dual clutch designs.
Nice looking spare wheel well for the old gas tank.
>> The return on investment in a car is more predictable and will be extremely negative
>> - but it might be more enjoyable than losing money on your savings:-)
exactly, i just knew me learned fiends would endorse such a plan -:)
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>> The new model C5 estate is indeed a nice looking thing. Wonder if they're screwed
>> together properly? Depreciation seems to be an issue but as he'd be buying second hand
>> and most probably running it up to 200k miles or so that could actually be
>> an advantage.
>>
I only ran mine for 3 years / 30K so nowhere near the same use, but nothing failed in that time. Just 2 safety recalls carried out at the same time as servicing. Never returned less than 50 mpg, very comfortable, and pretty quite while cruising.
Think the Pug 508 is very similar and appears to suffer high depreciation.
If the budget could stretch a little a hyundai I40 estate would come with the balance of the 5 year unlimited mileage warranty
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Ooh I shall be watching this thread with interest, Humph you've described my situation better than I could myself. I am running a V50 bought just over 2 years ago at 4 years old with 106K miles, now 180K and will be looking to change at about 200K in about 9 months time.
OK not as large as your chaps Mondy, but how about a V70?
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I like the V70. At his budget though he'd be looking at the "older" model I guess. Some doubts on reliability reading the HJ report... Pity really, good looking practical wagons with a bit of "class" on the face of it...
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>> I like the V70. At his budget though he'd be looking at the "older" model
What about the recently tweaked V60 Sportsback, with its nippy 1.6 engine?
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V60 might be a bit tight for loadspace. Nice cars though. Haven't looked but maybe rare at <£10k ?
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Ah, yes, quite. Missed the budget bit.
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One soft roader that might interest could be the C Crosser/4007/Outlander, excellent 2.2 Diesel, decent load space plus those extra though small rear seats might prove useful.
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Well, funny you should go off on that tack GB. While you must have been typing I was on AT looking at a Qashqai+2 ( bigger boot and extra seats over the standard model ) <60k miles 2009 plate 2.0 diesel at £9.5k or something like that. Quite nice and if my old Qq was anything to go by it should be an alright car.
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Skoda Superb estate is a brilliant package - more room, character and, for me, style than the similar Passat, and a better boot than anything we looked at bar the LEC. Not the widest, though, so will depend on the size of his children. If they're past the booster stage they should still fit in the back. Might be a challenge to find one for £10,000, though.
I like the V70 too, but it's not the wardrobe carrier people imagine. The rear deck is very high - much higher than the RWD LEC, surprisingly - and the back seat also failed my Beest-behind-Beest test. It also has the worst implementation I've yet seen of the electric brake idea, which makes the manual version practically undrivable. It might still be big enough, though, and for 30,000 miles (or mikes) a year, there's nothing I'd rather be in.
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I agree on the Superb, but they are a bit narrow for an otherwise big car as you say. That was probably the thing that held me back when I looked at one.
The higher roofline of the estate makes it better than the saloon-cum-hatch for people.
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>> The higher roofline of the estate makes it better than the saloon-cum-hatch for people.
>>
As long as you avoid the fancy panoramic roof! I was in a Superb estate as a taxi in CZ not so long back which had the full panoramic roof. It looked very nice, but my head was bouncing off it in the back.
The saloon / hatch is actually OK in this regard. If you look at one, you'll see that it looks rather "clunky" around the 3/4 area as they've taken the full roof height right back to the tail door rather than going for a more "fastback" look as most do.
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Had a look on auto trader for Octavia vrs estates but in that price bracket they are all high mileage.
So, searching for a diesel estate, up to 11k, up to 2 years old, threw up:
Astra estates
Hyundai i30 estates
And various mpv types inc recent Zafira and Alteas.
For that mileage I would be doing some serious googling to check on actual mpgs rather than book ones.
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>> >> I like the V70. At his budget though he'd be looking at the "older"
>> model
>>
>> What about the recently tweaked V60 Sportsback, with its nippy 1.6 engine?
>>
>>
No chance at his budget, and I'm thinking way to small for his needs. Mine is in no way anywhere near a Mondy in the load stakes - the boot floor to the roof is surprisingly shallow, and if you are referring to the 1.6 diesel then I would describe it as adequate rather than nippy, but the big thorn in the side is fuel economy. Best I've managed is 47 on a tank, worst is 40. A look around at other forums shows some have managed 50 if driven like a saint, but mid 40's is realistic
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>> Volvo estate ... if driven like a saint..
Is this what he wants then? :-)
www.kgfclassiccars.co.uk/details.php?cid=96
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I quite like the S-Max idea, and indeed my colleague fancies one a bit but the lack of spare tyre or indeed anywhere to put one would be a worry if it was me. His car will usually be full of his work kit ( so having a spare kicking around in the boot isn't really an option ) and he's often if not always a long way from home and at funny times of the day ( early mornings and late nights ) so a non-gunk-fixable flat would a royal pain.
I reckon it comes back to the lowest common denominator and almost tragic inevitability of a Mondeo estate again ! Maybe he could get a different colour this time...
Cambelts on them now though, don't like cambelts.
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>> the lack of spare tyre or indeed anywhere to put one would be a worry
You call the AA.
>> I reckon it comes back to the lowest common denominator and almost tragic inevitability of
>> a Mondeo estate again ! Maybe he could get a different colour this time...
You have an irrational fetish for Mondeo's. Completely indefensible by any rational human.
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Heh Heh ! Maybe so, but given the brief, what else is there?
To reprise...
30k miles pa
diesel
10k budget
large loadspace
comfortable
reliable
pleasing to drive
economical
not currently got starship mileage
looks alright
3 kids and a spouse to shift around after work and at weekends
Tough call isn't it?
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Boxsterboy I believe got a spacesaver for his S-max. Does that just have to rattle around anyway?
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Maybe I have that wrong then. I thought I remembered that they don't have one. Might be wrong.
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No, I'm sure you're right about the gunk - but Bb was planning to get a spacesaver for longer journeys -
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=4905&m=107613&v=e
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I am sure the local scrappy could supply both a spare wheel or a space saver complete with tyre.
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Perfect - A beautiful car to drive and larger than usual loadspace.
In addition, it's an excellent Q-car - a V8 repmobile that nobody would notice.
tinyurl.com/a3d7phs
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I wouldn't want to seen dead in one of those.
But plenty of room to pop your clogs.
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>>pop your clogs..
Ouch !
:-)
Edit - A guy I used to ski with had a hearse. His dad (who had a limousine hire and undertakers business gave it to him. ) Great for getting all the gear in...
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Sun 10 Mar 13 at 18:13
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I wonder if he feels lucky....
tinyurl.com/aoofglp
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Hmm, the seller of that has clearly got a Fetish for Capital Letters....
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Thinking about the new lease cars we deliver and the 3-year-old ones we bring back: VW Golf Plus and Renault Scenic fit the brief of spacious, reasonably reliable cars with heavyish early depreciation. Scenic DCi engine shared with Qashqai don't forget.
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With income of £9,500 p.a. and perhaps £4,000 of that going on fuel, then £5,500 is available to fund the other costs. At 30K p.a. mileage and the suggestion that the vehicle will need to run to 200K then the implication is that he'll be keeping the car for about 5 years - so why limit the purchase price to £10K? He has the budget to fund more than that ....
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That's an interesting view Paul.
I worked for a company that paid some employees a car allowance. At its most generous, before austerity measures were imposed, I was paid about £8500 a year in lieu of a company car, plus all my fuel (all taxable of course). I got nothing additional for business miles from the company but was able to set 45p/mile against tax (because I had already been taxed on the "extra wages" and the fuel benefit).
It was fairly easy to calculate the net monthly car allowance and what a lot of people in my position did was to go and lease or PCP a car for the £400 a month or whatever. In other words the car allowance dictated their spending.
My view was that it was unrelated. Once paid to me, the money was mine, and I wasn't going to spend it for the sake of it. Neither did I like the idea of funding interest or leasing charges with it when I had money in the bank.
Maybe Humph's colleague has other things to spend his money on, and likes to stay out of debt.
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I can understand an individual wanting to stay out of debt, but to me this is more of a business decision and different criteria apply. The vehicle is going to be a 'tool of his trade' and he should have the best tool for the job. It should be a cost efficient decision, but to me limiting the budget to £10k rules out lots of good options.
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With a company car you are somewhat locked-in to that company - unless, of course they fire you!
No job=no car.
When I had the chance I changed from a company car to an expensed private car (Hillman Hunter EMT777J - tells you how long ago that was). Company car option was a low spec. Ford or Vauxhall (viva-ish) thing)
Many colleagues had built up a good equity in their private cars (v. cheap HP, as it was a finance company) and were running motors well above their nominal pay grade entitlement.
Sods law kicked in - Lombank was bought by Natwest, merged with North Central Finance and only company cars were allowed. Bye-bye- Hunter - enter Fiat 128 :-(
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Well, a wee bit of an update. I saw the guy in question today. Thanks to all for the suggestions everyone. I didn't let on I'd had help and unashamedly took all the credit for what he described as "really helpful" by the way !
Anyway, I think he's getting firmer on the S-Max idea. He doesn't want to borrow money so the budget stands. Don't blame him really the way things are. His income is heavily weighted by commission so it's tough to say what he might earn over a 3 year loan period for example. If things go ok he'll do ok but if they don't he won't.
His current car is a 59 plate Mondeo Zetec 2.0 diesel auto estate. It has 120k miles on it and while he doesn't have to change it he'd quite like to. He likes the car though and says it's a pleasant place to be, so an S-Max would almost certainly be to his taste as they are loosely the same model I think.
As a by the by, he had the cambelt replaced ( somewhat belatedly ) at the independent garage near our office today at a surprisingly cheap £228. I thought that was pretty good and thankfully so did he. I suggested that having had that done and also fairly recently had a "no advisories" MOT pass that maybe the current car was good to go for a while yet but he's set his cap at a new one so fair enough.
I think unless he's got a magic wand and he can find a lowish mileage A6 Avant diesel for his money then the S-Max is favourite.
Unless you know of any outsiders he could look at which we've not discussed above?
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If the Mondy is four years old, only has 120k on the clock, and he's just changed the timing belt, why not keep it?
If he's really set on a change, would a sound Mondeo wagon be worth much less with another year and 30k miles on it? That would give him time to find exactly what he wants - whatever that might be - than settle for the first SMax he finds.
Personally, unless he had a burning desire to drive something left-of-field (in which case he should know exactly what he wanted, just as I'd automatically answer "Subaru Legacy" asked the same question) or could find a working car at Stu's level of economic running, I'd have thought it made sense to keep what he has. Even more so as this is primarily a work tool and the income from that work doesn't appear at all certain.
Or else opt into the company car scheme and let someone else have the headaches of running the mainstream estate/MPV it appears he'll opt for anyway.
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Gromit, I absolutely agree with you. He should, in my opinion, either keep the car he has or take the company car offer. But, he seems to be on a mission.
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>> Boxsterboy I believe got a spacesaver for his S-max. Does that just have to rattle
>> around anyway?
>>
Yes, it does just rattle around. I wrapped it in cardboard to stop the rubber making everything dirty.
As to the requirements for the employee's car, I would add a vote for the Mondeo or V70 - all those Police forces can't be wrong! Yes, I would suggest an S-Max too, but being bigger it won't be as economical as a lower slung car. Has to be a 4-cylinder diesel, though, and VW (Passat) diesels are economical.
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Looks a bit daft to be thinking of changing something which is known and should be good for a while yet. Better the devil you know and all that. As hes firmly in second hand territory there is always some risk when changing, and as its his bread and butter.......
If he really wants the A6 he should run the mondy for a bit longer to increase his overall budget, changing for something else humdrum is likely to disappoint.
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But as we all know, once you get the urge, its very difficult to say no.
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Rep's dilemma - Runfer D'Hills
