Four years ago I fell in love with (and bought) a 1990 (Pre-facelift) V12 5.3 litre Jag XJ-S convertible in black. 300hp of beauty.
Super condition with a massive history file. Owned by a retired airline pilot who had for (no apparent reason) replaced the majority of all the visible bits within hands-reach under the bonnet (injection system, wiring, hoses, clips, etc) with genuine Jag parts (all receipts kept) so it looked like new under the bonnet. All previous owners details tracked, etc, etc. Receipts for thousands over the years - you know the kind of thing.
I have then continued with the fettling with both maintenance (waxoyl, new (special size) Pirelli's, new hood, full re-spray, servicing, etc, and repairs (new rear wings, head off and skimmed after a valve stem seal dropped) and on totting up the bills I have spent (and I cringe as I write this) over £15k on keeping it as one of the best you would ever find, despite it's 96k miles. On top of what I paid for the car.....
The problem is that it only gets used on occasional sunny days when I drive it the 45 mile round trip to work, and when I have (in the past) taken it to some shows / Jag runs (London to Brighton, etc).
Whilst it has a 2+2 seat conversion, my 12 year old has outgrown the back seats and so it is not even used at weekends.
So. Do I sell it now (as is the current plan) and get circa £12k for it, or do I hold onto it as a possible candidate for an appreciating classic, and would the on-going maintenance costs outweigh the investment potential? Running costs are quite low (£150 or so for fully comp agreed value insurance on a 5k mile classic policy, can't remember the tax but £200 and something, not the £400 max, and fuel? Well at 12-18mpg not great, but as only used infrequently and not long distance somewhat irrelevant.
The thing is, if I sell it, will I be kicking myself in 5-10 years when they might be worth a lot more - as my valeter friend thinks? He thinks I am mad to consider selling it now.
Thoughts from the forum?
Oh, by the way, my wife thinks that once the Jag is sold there will be room in the garage for a treadmill so I can get fit and lose some weight! Lucky me. The funds from the sale would chop a chunk off the mortgage.
|
If you're keeping it as an investment, then sell it.
If you're keeping it because you love it and any possible future profit is a by-product, then keep it.
|
It sounds to me as if you'll regret selling it. Even I'd regret you selling it.
Enjoy yourself.
A treadmill is a terrible idea, get a bike. If you can't motivate yourself to get on a bike, or just walk, you'll never use a treadmill.
If your wife loves you, and I'm sure she does, she'd surely rather see you happy in your Jag than on a treadmill anyway?
Maybe she's genuinely worried about your health, but you can do something about that without conflating that issue with the Jag decision.
|
To add -
These things probably will come right eventually, but don't plan your retirement around the investment case. I'm sure you know that, just as you know from experience that if you want a perfect one it's cheaper to buy one that way than make it so!
The V12 is (relatively) bullet proof. A pal of mine has a thing about them and probably 15 years ago bought an XJC convertible (which he still has), later a hard top XJC and he's owned 2 XJ12s IIRC. He only buys things he likes, but he was convinced they were classics in the making. He's still waiting!
|
I'd flog it being you hardly use it, sure it may be worth £mega in 5-10 years, a lot of things can happen in 5-10 years :(
I've thrown £???,??? at cars in the past, even bought new and flogged em within a few months.
Forget the spondulics, you've had ya fun with it, time to move on now.
|
|
LPG conversion, then use it more?
|
Not sure if this engine would like LPG some do some don't.
I would sell.
|
Frankly in 10 years time, it is unlikely to be worth a lot as old Jags are for old buffers who live in the past - and they are dying out.
Sell it. A Porsche 911 is a better investment.
|
|
Funny I was looking at Porches 911 this morning on the net.I like the aircooled early porsche.I did see one in town perfect condition eldery driver.
|
If you've only spent 3.5k p.a. for the last four years, then it's not been very expensive really, there will be people on here who will have spent that on keeping a Mondeo running; certainly if you include depreciation.
Sell it, it's only a car for goodness sake. And an investment that costs you 3.5k p.a. to maintain is going to have to be worth £100,000 within sixteen years to be an 'investment' that has returned you a mere 5% p.a.
(Of course, if you want to use it, then keep and use it.)
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Tue 5 Mar 13 at 16:02
|
Keep it.
It's worth way more than £12,000 to you. And your 12 year old will be 17 before you know it and will have their own wheels (or more likely wouldn't want to be seen out with their dad!).
If you sell it you will bitterly regret it (although I don't see XJS convertibles as future big-time classics).
|
Mike Hannon has one of these, a tweaked bored-out example I think. The sort of car that would have his enthusiast French neighbours green with envy.
It would be interesting to know what he thinks.
|
>> Four years ago I fell in love with (and bought) a 1990 (Pre-facelift) V12 5.3
>> litre Jag XJ-S convertible in black. 300hp of beauty.
Have you fallen out of love with it?
>> Super condition with a massive history file. Owned by a retired airline pilot who had
>> for (no apparent reason) replaced the majority of all the visible bits within hands-reach under
>> the bonnet (injection system, wiring, hoses, clips, etc) with genuine Jag parts (all receipts kept)
>> so it looked like new under the bonnet. All previous owners details tracked, etc, etc.
>> Receipts for thousands over the years - you know the kind of thing.
>>
>> I have then continued with the fettling with both maintenance (waxoyl, new (special size) Pirelli's,
>> new hood, full re-spray, servicing, etc, and repairs (new rear wings, head off and skimmed
>> after a valve stem seal dropped) and on totting up the bills I have spent
>> (and I cringe as I write this) over £15k on keeping it as one of
>> the best you would ever find, despite it's 96k miles. On top of what I
>> paid for the car.....
Sounds fantastic.
>> do I hold onto it as a possible candidate for an appreciating
>> classic, and would the on-going maintenance costs outweigh the investment potential?
Its not going to appreciate, remove that thought from your head.
>> Running costs are quite
>> low (£150 or so for fully comp agreed value insurance on a 5k mile classic
>> policy, can't remember the tax but £200 and something, not the £400 max, and fuel?
>> Well at 12-18mpg not great, but as only used infrequently and not long distance somewhat
>> irrelevant.
Excellent cheap toy to run.
>> The thing is, if I sell it, will I be kicking myself in 5-10 years
>> when they might be worth a lot more - as my valeter friend thinks? He
>> thinks I am mad to consider selling it now.
repeat after me, its not going to appreciate.
>> Thoughts from the forum?
Its a keeper, you will hate yourself for the rest of your life. Imagine you in the pub, sulking over your beer, telling your mates about the fantastic jag you used to have.
>>
>> Oh, by the way, my wife thinks that once the Jag is sold there will
>> be room in the garage for a treadmill so I can get fit and lose
>> some weight! Lucky me.
Another good reason to keep it
The funds from the sale would chop a chunk off the
>> mortgage.
Not that much.
|
I'm with Zed on this, provided you can afford to keep it do so. You clearly like owning and driving it and if you sell it you'll always regret it.
Fifteen years back I had a grey import Honda Bros 400cc V twin, probably the nicest motorcycle I have ever owned and in showroom condition. I let it go for about 1500 quid, money that at the time meant very little to me and I've regretted it ever since. Similar models can fetch stupid money now and I'd never be able to get another one, I should have stuck it in the garage and kept it as a good weather classic.
|
Keep.
1, In the big scheme of things, the current sale price isn't great
2, You'll regret it
3, You only live once
4, in 10, 15 ,20 years time it will be worth something sensible...although not Aston/Ferrari territory
|
|
Keep it, the running costs and likely depreciation will be far less stressful than changing your forum name.
|
The last thing you want to be doing now is paying down debt if it's at a sensible rate and you can service it.
A treadmill doesn't sound much of a compensation for a near concours XJS.
You've spent the money, you won't get it back, enjoy the result. Unless you want a Ferrari, or ... but then you'd have to spend even more to get that as you want it.
The Jag has a reasonable chance of at least holding its value in real terms if you write off a couple of grand a year to look after it - that's just funding your hobby, like playing golf (or even smoking).
My car-nut pal (recently pruned to about 9 I think) admits to making a small fortune by owning classic cars. The trouble is, it's smaller than the fortune he started with ;-)
|
You've put love money and care into that car, in other words its become a she your illicit mistress.
Those pleasurable daliances cannot be priced, they are what they are, your selfish absolute pleasure.
Who cares whether she appreciates or not as she matures, if she gives you those moments of ultimate pleasure then she's worth the expense of keeping her in comfort, stroked and petted, rent paid, fed and watered.
Owning the exclusive pleasure of something so individual as your fine lady is worth far in excess of the costs as they stand, your mistress wouldn't have young men in baseball caps drooling as they would over some dreadful overmade sporty thing with silicon implants fake tan and thong.
But she would have that effect on cultured mature men who appreciate the feelings emotions and pleasures of such an unusual refined slightly faulted beauty, an English Rose gradually maturing to everlasting beauty.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Tue 5 Mar 13 at 20:15
|
|
Blimey gb....is there a poet in you?....or does such a car stir emotions in you that has you explete so eloquently
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 19 Mar 13 at 10:20
|
Nick Clegg has an XJS - seen in his yard when interviewed about the Lord Reynard sex allegations.
Anyone want to be like Nick Clegg and own the same car?
|
>> Anyone want to be like Nick Clegg and own the same car?
>>
His will be the 6 cyl version. Looks the part but not got the same stamina.
|
>>His will be the 6 cyl version. Looks the part but not got the same stamina<<
In other words - all fur coat and no knickers then.
:-}
|
Hardly a poet in ones wildest dreams WP.
But yes i love proper cars, usually and preferably unfashionable when made so timeless, they don't have to be sporting but they must have individuality soul heart and charisma, high maintenance demanding and flawed too, just like a worthwhile mistress i'm told..;)
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Wed 6 Mar 13 at 18:01
|
I know how you feel, SFD. At a less exalted level I am in the same position with a Y-registered BMW Z3.
I've had it since 2008 as a fun car: 14,000 miles since then and no problems, although a 12-year-old car is surely going to go wrong sometime.
I think we both need to give our fun cars one more spring and summer - take them out just for the fun of it, and if this still seems worth it, keep them. But if we feel we've had all the fun we're going to get, then time to flog.
|
|
In your position, I think it would take something like a complete financial disaster (in other words, leaving me with no choice) to make me part with it. You seem to have a significant emotional investment in it, as well as a financial one. The only thing I can equate it to is my motorbike, which I sold through lack of use, but not a day goes by where a part of me doesn't regret it. Whether I used it or not, it was always there.
|
Keep it and buy a bumper sticker saying ' Up yours, tree-huggers'.
Could you consider hiring it out for film work and making it earn its keep?
|
>>Frankly in 10 years time, it is unlikely to be worth a lot as old Jags are for old buffers who live in the past - and they are dying out.
Sell it. A Porsche 911 is a better investment.<<
Hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahaha! And that's before I saw the word 'investment'.
I dunno SFD, only you can decide. Yours is a lovely piece of kit. It would hurt me terribly to part with mine, even though it doesn't do much just at the moment. I always said if cars like that were eventually driven off the roads I'd still keep it just to look at and feel good. You can have a lot nastier things in the woodshed!
All I can really say is, if you do decide to keep it don't, whatever you do, be tempted into a gas conversion.
>>Keep it and buy a bumper sticker saying ' Up yours, tree-huggers'.<<
Oh yes, that too. Every Toyota Prius, etc, etc, deserves the finger...
Last edited by: Mike Hannon on Wed 6 Mar 13 at 16:02
|
>> Every Toyota Prius, etc, etc, deserves the finger...
Are you sure Mike? Fiat 500 TwinAir is said to guzzle juice if driven with proper Italian brio although it is congestion charge immune and perhaps even VED exempt...
I quite fancy one to go with the Speed Six Bentley and 9 litre Renault 45 I also haven't got...
|
>> >> Every Toyota Prius, etc, etc, deserves the finger...
In a rural area near me there's a Prius being used as a taxi...and it has the nerve to advertise itself as an Ecocab. What's eco about running around constantly on a 1.6 petrol engine? It is nowhere near a city, so the electric bit will only be working on slow parking type things..everywhere else you are on country 'A' roads and on constant petrol...why not have a diesel?
Can I complain to 'trading standards' that it is misrepresented?
|
Ach. The Prius (and other Toyota hybrids) doesn't run on petrol all the time outside the city. It does MOST of the time I grant you, but not all. That is:
It turns off the petrol engine when you are going downhill, braking, coasting, or the throttle position is super light, slowing for corners and so on - basically any time you aren't actually pressing the throttle firmly. If you try not very hard, you can get it to be on electric whilst driving at anything up to about 65mph, in bursts, using the daftly named "pulse and glide" technique.
So at a rough estimate I'd say in the city it's on electric about half the time, and outside perhaps 20% of the time.
The end result is mostly about 55 to 65mpg or a bit more in real conditions. Lunatic hypermilers irritate the rest of the driving world but can edge that up into the 90s (I'd never do it). Insensitive clods can get it down to the high 40s so it's pretty variable.
People look at the figures and say "oh, my little doodah car or or my big diesel gets more than that". But they tend to forget is that this is coming from a reasonably roomy comfortable lots of toys automatic five seater petrol hatchback with tax at either 0 or £20 a year depending on age, and there aren't any other cars that can quite match that at the moment.
I'd still go back to one my lovely expensive cars if I could bear to pay £110 a fill up rather than £55 every time, but...
Last edited by: Crankcase on Thu 7 Mar 13 at 10:11
|
>> Ach. The Prius (and other Toyota hybrids) doesn't run on petrol all the time outside
>> the city. It does MOST of the time I grant you, but not all. That
>> is:
Thanks for the informed post. Wouldn't a diesel hybrid be the best compromise?
|
ISTR recall a quote from the late Bob Lutz of GM on this subject, something along the lines of:
'Diesel = expensive to build. Hybrid = expensive to build. Diesel hybrid = expensive squared'
That said, Peugeot have given it a go, with mixed results, in the 508 and possibly others.
|
I'd hang onto it and enjoy it for a bit longer if you don't need the cash. If it's as sorted as you say it's unlikely to need major expense with regular exercise and fettling.
Now is not the best time to sell.
We're basically still in recession, petrol prices are climbing and the weather is crap. Potential buyers for something like that just don't have the feelgood factor that would get you a good price.
Last edited by: Kevin on Wed 6 Mar 13 at 20:24
|
Thanks for all the feedback. A general concensus then!
I have not considered it seriously as an investment - if I had then I am clearly a long way down on the deal at the moment! I suppose I have been looking for some justification for my decision either way really, and I know you guys will comfortably 'sanity check' my thought processes!
At the end of the day everything has come down to pain versus pleasure, and the balance has swung rather too far in one direction - the pain one.
I seem to spend more time on taking it to get little things done that need doing because I am too much of a perfectionist, than I do on driving it and enjoying it. It is not unreliable, just needs occasional TLC.
The last two years have seen a lot of money been thrown at the car and it is hard to justify it for the little use it gets. I only have a single unheated garage so most of the year I am not able to look at it lovingly either.
I guess that it seems to be a waste having such a lovely beast sat there doing nothing for 9 months plus of the year, whilst occasionally costing me chunks of cash.
I will take it on the London to Brighton run next month and see if any admiring glances at the end show on Maderia Drive will tempt anyone to get their wallet out and offer me a whole heap of cash. There is also 'soft-top Sunday' at Goodwood on the 5th May too.....
Or I shall decide "maybe next year" for the next few years. At least at the moment I have some hair to get caught in the wind!
|
Sounds familiar. At a time in my life when I had and indeed more importantly, had the time for interesting cars I couldn't really afford them. These days I perhaps could fund the expense a little more easily but I don't have the time, and what's more when eventually I'm old enough to have the time I won't have the money...
Life's a female dog sometimes...
|
You HAVE fallen out of love with it! Those are not the words of a guy in love with his car!
Complete reversal then, it has to go. It needs a someone who appreciates it. Go buy yourself a Kia.
< Wanders off in disgust >
|
Sounds like someone needs a car they can fall for again. If I was fed up fixing a car id prob go for an old Merc.
Stick it on Ebay and if it looks nice it will find someone who is looking for their dream motor and willing to pay strong money, even for a Jag.
|
>> Go buy yourself a Kia.
I know of one for sale.
|
>> >> Go buy yourself a Kia.
>>
>> I know of one for sale.
yeah, I think some shed of a Kia for 50 quid should do it.
|
Or indeed a Mit.... No never mind, forget it, too easy...
:-)
|
>>I seem to spend more time on taking it to get little things done that need doing because I am too much of a perfectionist,
You'll never be happy with it, or any car, unless you can master that.
Having the same tendency as you where cars are concerned, I've learnt that over the years from my long time petrol head friend whose everyday cars are more than 10 years old, and his "fun" cars range in age from 17 to 85.
None of them is ever perfect, or even near, but his ability to enjoy them seems unaffected. Neither does he worry about driving them in the rain. If imperfection bothered him he'd never sleep.
You've taken the hit already bringing it up to what sounds like very good condition (never cost effective as you know very well).
If you can't get over the "OCD" then you might as well let go.
Better though to try and relax your attitude a bit, if you can enjoy it.
|
Well, I love it on the days I am driving it. Perhaps I am on a downer today as it is misserable and rainy outside and seems like a long way from when I can get it out for a run.
There is a lovely feeling when you get boy racers coming up the rear, and just a gentle squeeze of the accelerator and they disappear into a spall spec in the rear mirror.
Draws admiring glances wherever it goes to, and you feel a million bucks in it.
Then I go into the garage like I did on saturday and see a 1/4" stone chip on the leading edge of the bonnet. I only had the re-spray done about 150 miles ago!
Argh!!!!
It will not be replaced with a Kia. Whilst I clearly have car-based OCD I have not slipped that far (although youv'e got to admire them).
I am however regreting not buying an achingly beautiful Pug 308 1970's convertible about 10 years ago when I could neither afford it or have somewhere to store it. Fully restored from nut and bolt with about 500 photo's cataloging every step of the rebuild. Sold for £2,000. Gutted.
|
I think it was probably a 304 you wanted.
www.classic-auctions.com/Images/Report/109C/44329.jpg
When my Pug 205 GTi 1.9 failed its MOT about 8 years ago I put it in a garage and left it to appreciate in value. I'm still waiting!
|
Writing as an unqualified auto-psychologist I would diagnose your basic problem as inability to come to terms with the need to find sufficient excuses to use your car.
They have to be excuses of course, because your car is entirely useless, and always has been.
Some cars were useful once, have depreciated through use and time, and may have been rescued and restored by enthusiasts and end up useless, becoming pampered show-pieces that are too valuable to use again.
But yours is one of the rarer kind that from new has only survived through love.
So you need to find satisfying excuses to use the car. These have to be good ones of course.
We use "good" here to mean satisfying to you. No one else matters. That is both the tragedy and the opportunity that comes to people with your condition.
A bad excuse is using the car to go and buy bits it needs, or to drive to have minor things fixed. That just makes you feel worse about not having thought of a good excuse. You need to take it on holiday, do ordinary shopping in it, drive to work in it every time the sun comes out.
You can afford the petrol I presume? Just how fat a director are you?
Don't worry about laying it up in the winter. That is good for the car, and good for you because of the joy you will get when rolling it out on the first warm day of spring.
|
>> None of them is ever perfect, or even near, but his ability to enjoy them
>> seems unaffected. Neither does he worry about driving them in the rain. If imperfection bothered
>> him he'd never sleep.
Yep, you need to go with the flow
www.youtube.com/watch?v=faYSY7hWbRY
|
Indeed I did mean the 304. A 308 pretty? Not in this lifetime....
I think Cliff has it spot on. Perfectly verbalised diagnosis! I'm not that fat Cliff, and certainly not a fat-cat, far from it (hence hoping to chop a bit off the mortgage).
When it is driven as little as it is, the fuel stops do not seem so frequent (although a full tank lasts about 180 miles - gulp!) and so the cost part is bearable.
Actually today the guy that valetted it has told me he has fallen in love with it. Head over heels.
He is in the process of persuading his other (and no doubt better) half that they should buy it.
I remember doing that 4 years ago. Interesting discussions ahead!
|
Well, the guy that loved the car could not convince his wife and after many discussions between Mrs SFD and myself I have bitten the bullet and the car is definitely on the market.
Perhaps a little late for the best chance of selling a drop-top, but with the weather we have had......
Anyone looking for something to polish at the weekend, drive and admire? :)
|
So that'll make two of us. I flogged the Z3 a month or so ago - through Suresell so got only just over £2,000 for it, but avoided the hassle of selling privately.
I could just see the bills coming - a 12-year-old BMW which has only had a new water pump in my ownership, so it had had the same battery, clutch, exhaust etc for at least five of those years.
But I'm not sure I could have seen it go if we didn't have another convertible - SWMBO has a Mini Roadster.
Last edited by: Avant on Mon 1 Jul 13 at 23:00
|
>> Anyone looking for something to polish at the weekend, drive and admire? :)
>>
Sorry...already got 2 in the shed.
|
Like Sfd I am in a similar quandary. My '04 330 Ci soft top really is the mutts nuts. Superb turbine smooth engine, not a rattle or squeak anywhere, great handling, 30/32mpg and almost enough power. Another 80 horses would be acceptable.
BUT, I really, really need something more practical for taking the oldies out, and putting the mower/tools/ladders/rubbish into the trailer is a pain. When push comes to shove I simply cannot bring myself to sell it.
I had convinced myself to get a 330 Touring, same era, and to satisfy my year round craving for open air motoring with an '05ish Boxster S. Hang the expense. I'm just letting the oldies struggle getting in & out. Selfish me!
|
Jaguar XJS V12 - Am I going to regret this? - Alanovich
