My car has been consuming oil at a slow but steady rate over the last 6 months.
It is using a litre roughly every 8000 miles. The dealer says that this is normal, but over the last 20+ years my cars have only ever consumed minute quantities of oil, so I am still uneasy. (The dealer also claims that the engine is OK and that there are no leaks.)
I think that I can rely on getting more unbiased advice from the forum on this than from the dealer. I would value your thoughts as I'm a bit bemused by it all.
What sort of level of consumption do your own cars have? Is mine within the normal distribution - or does it signify poor engineering?
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
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What car is it? Some are known to consume a certain amount.
None of mine do although my old Perodua used half a litre in 5k.
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A litre every 8000 miles is nothing to worry about. There are many engines that will use oil. BMW 3.0litre petrol, Honda CDTi, Alfa 156 to name a few.
The most important thing is to keep an eye on it - which you are obviously doing.
My engine doesn't use any. But the earlier Avensis were having recalls over the oil consumption, and it was probably way over your levels.
Last edited by: corax on Fri 1 Mar 13 at 16:19
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>>Honda CDTi,
Do you mean the old Isuzu engine? or the i-CTDI, as fitted to the CRV among other things? Some of those used oil, some didn't. Mine never did.
But it's surprising what is considered acceptable. I've known of at least two people being told that the official tolerance is something like 1,000 miles per litre, one was an Audi, can't remember the other, so I wouldn't expect any dealer action at 8,000/litre.
There's a reference in this Briskoda thread to permitted consumption on a 1.4 Fabia of 1 litre every 600 miles.
www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/225992-14-engine-oil-consumption/
and I do remember a pal years ago with a Mini was told anything up to a pint every 600 miles was OK!
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>> the official tolerance is something like 1,000 miles per litre, one was an
>> Audi, can't remember the other,
Vauxhall say that it's ok for an engine to use a litre of oil every 1000 miles.
No two engines are the same though. Some will use oil, whereas others won't. My previous 2.2 Vectra used a litre of oil every 2000 to 2500 miles and the engine had only done 36,000 miles before I wrote it off. My current 2.2 Vectra has now done 83,000 miles and doesn't use a drop of oil between 10,000 mile services.
The previous car had its original oil changed early in it's life.
My current car didn't have the oil changed until the specified mileage.
My guess is the engine in the first car wasn't run in properly before having its factory fill oil changed for synthetic oil and the tolerances were still tight.
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8000 mls/litre sounds ok to me. How many miles has the engine done ? Sometimes "excercising the engine" may help bed things in.This used to be reccomended by VW when they had oil consumption issues.
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>>
>> and I do remember a pal years ago with a Mini was told anything up
>> to a pint every 600 miles was OK!
>>
I once had a car that used a gallon every 100 miles. It left all opposition behind in the smoke screen. I used old oil from other people's oil changes.
Then I fitted Heppolite oil control rings, and it improved to about 100 miles to the pint. Problem solved!
Realistically though, I have read that as long as it doesn't need topping up in between changes, it is fine.
But if you can ever see blue smoke, even a whisp, it will poison the catalytic converter.
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All engines use oil, even if the level doesn't drop. The oil used is replaced with contaminates like soot, thereby keeping the level the same.
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So does that mean technically you could do without an annual oil change if enough fresh oil being put in at the top end ;)
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>> So does that mean technically you could do without an annual oil change if enough
>> fresh oil being put in at the top end ;)
>>
My mate has a 160K '98 accord. He bought it for a few hundred quid as a stopgap motor, but 2.5 years later its still going strong. Not been serviced during his ownership though as he reckons it gets through a couple of ltrs every 10K so that's as good as an oil change :)
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There have been several very sensible questions asked up thread, so let me provide more details in answer.
1) The engine is a 140 PS 2-litre VW turbodiesel lump, and fitted in an Audi (who may have tweaked it of course)
2) Current mileage is 29,800.
3) it did not appear to use any oil at all until after second service at 19k miles.
4) It spends most of its life cruising at 65-75 on motorways, and on A roads. It is quiet and smooth at this pace, but very civilised at all speeds actually.
5) It has an automatic transmission, which is a CVT (cough! Spit!) type
And here is a strange point....MPG has declined in step with the oil usage.
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>> And here is a strange point....MPG has declined in step with the oil usage.
Ooo, that sounds nasty. Until you said that I would have said don't worry. MPG should be climbing as the engine runs in (takes a while on a diesel)
How much has the mPG dropped?
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>> How much has the mPG dropped?
>>
Was averaging 47. Now 42/43. (Was 45 in summer but always drops a bit in winter)
Last edited by: Londoner on Fri 1 Mar 13 at 19:09
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Ok thats just a winter drop. it will go back up again.
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>> My mate has a 160K '98 accord. He bought it for a few hundred quid
>> as a stopgap motor, but 2.5 years later its still going strong. Not been serviced
>> during his ownership though as he reckons it gets through a couple of ltrs every
>> 10K so that's as good as an oil change :)
That makes me wince. Those engines will go on forever, why not just give it an oil change every once in a while. He's doing everything necessary to kill the VTEC system - they don't like dirty oil. I don't suppose it's really an issue for that money but it's the inconvenience of breaking down.
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>> That makes me wince. Those engines will go on forever, why not just give it
>> an oil change every once in a while. He's doing everything necessary to kill the
>> VTEC system - they don't like dirty oil. I don't suppose it's really an issue
>> for that money but it's the inconvenience of breaking down.
>>
My thoughts to. As its just passed another MOT I can see him having it another year (unless major failure) I did suggest that he needn't have it serviced, just get an oil and filter change at a kwik fit type outfit. Appears they charge a smidge under £40 for oil and filter
Driven moderately he's getting 40mpg out of it to
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Lotus twincams of the early unmodified flavour can go to 500 miles per pint as there are no valve seals.
My 1920s JAP does 1000 miles per gallon! No smoke though (touches wood) as it's a total loss oil system - basically a dry sump that chucks the old oil on the road... Except I've added a catch tank as motorcyclists look rather dimly on cars that oil the road.
Turbo engines are known for using a bit, but normally aspirated engines will usually go from service to service with no top ups needed.
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Except I've added a catch tank as motorcyclists look rather dimly on
>> cars that oil the road.
>>
Respect to you for that SP.
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The oil consumption wouldn't worry me one bit, and i'd be inclined to eliminate any normal reasons for the apparent drop in MPG before worrying unduly, such as...
Has it seen a new air filter, are the tyres in good condition wearing well (suspect tracking?) of equivalent quality to OE spec and up to correct pressures, has anyone stripped the brakes properly and made sure everything is free or has the technician done his usual trick of peering through the wheels which seems to be the modern version of a full service.
Has anyone chucked a bottle of injector cleaner into the tank, i care not a jot if others think the better products in this sector (Forte Millers) are snake oil has it had any?
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>> has the technician done
>> his usual trick of peering through the wheels which seems to be the modern version
>> of a full service.
Peeing through the wheels now GB. Helps to seize them up more quickly and earns them extra servicing fees :)
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Oh well played C, had to check me speeling cos wondered if i'd p'eed too.:-)
I seriously wonder how many cars are driving round with cracked and crumbling or even detached pads, how many rear caliper pistons (especially) are partially or fully seized, or how many sliding caliper or other adjusters seized solid yonks ago.
Should have kept a rogues gallery from my kerbside cowboy days.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Fri 1 Mar 13 at 20:24
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my gf was driving her polo for 6 months on bare metal front pads .. no squeeling tho.. the slave cylinders were leaking so bad it was all quite on the western front.. shocker
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>> my gf was driving her polo for 6 months on bare metal front pads ..
>>
Amazing but i'm not surprised, hope you still remind her..;)
My favourite was ISTR a Renault 11 (or was it a 10, three box square shaped rear engined), the front pads of which no pad remained had worn the discs down to mere wafers, gauge of an average car body panel, how they didn't shatter completely under even normal braking is still a mystery, i should have preserved them with an oil film and kept them in a mechanical macabre museum collection.
Though the bigger mystery is how come the chap didn't know, the grating/grinding heard and felt through every part of ones nervous system should have alerted the most mechanically unsympathetic driver, surely some primal sense of self preservation should have kicked in.
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>>3) it did not appear to use any oil at all until after second service at 19k miles.
It might be worth finding exactly what was done at this service.
There should be no need for snake oil.
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My CRV used oil - not sure how much, regular checks and the odd top up. Did a fair amount of miles in the time I had it - The X1 didn't use any in-between services, the 3 Series doesn't seem to. My latest GS was the oddest - it used a lot in the first couple of thousand miles - it went for its first service and stopped using it as if someone had thrown a switch after that. Most odd.
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My present car doesn't use much oil pootling gently about, but when revved much it uses noticeably more. But nothing untoward.
All other things being equal, that's what you would expect.
I understand (and it seems likely) that excessive unburnt oil in the exhaust can cook the catalyser in a modern car. People's piston rings seem OK these days for the most part, but surely valve-stem oil seals still go hard and allow too much oil to pass?
Like a late friend's very nice at heart Mk 1 Golf GTI. I got it well warmed up before giving it some beans down a one mile straight near here. It went very well, but when I lifted off it belched an unbelievably dense cloud of smoke through the exhaust. That was going to cost a few quid to put right. Nice little motor though.
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>> It went very well, but when I lifted off it belched an unbelievably dense cloud
>> of smoke through the exhaust. That was going to cost a few quid to put
>> right. Nice little motor though.
>>
Sounds like worn valve guides. An easy repair and certainly worth doing on a Mk1 Golg GTI.
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It's the seals at the top that really matter, unless the valve guides are very worn indeed. But even replacing the seals is a head-off job. So you might as well do the full rebuild while you're about it.
Driven gently, as it had been, that GTI could have gone on for ages. But to get it really up to scratch would have cost actually a good couple of thousand on engine, suspension and brakes. I really liked it - dirty grey-green metallic, slightly kerbed BBS wheels, tired interior... a connoisseur's car that still felt eager and was capable.
Dunno what became of it. I didn't think I could afford it and I think the garage man took it off the widow's hands.
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My wife's i.6 petrol Focus started using a lot of oil i.e. more than a litre per 2000 miles and it turned out that the PCV valve needed replacing. IIRC, the increased consumption started from about 70k miles and rapidly deteriorated over the next 10k miles. As I understand it, the PCV valve becomes bunged up.
I had imagined that all sorts of awful things could have gone wrong - from worn valve-guides to broken piston rings, but a replacement PCV valve was a pretty straightforward job.
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I haven't ever unscrewed the oil filler cap on the 320d. At 19150 miles, it's going in for its first service a week on Monday, and is still showing MAX on the electronic indicator. It was run in to the spirit, rather than the letter of the instructions, and has been well "used", including being driven flat out on the Autobahn on a couple of occasions.
Of course, it has a DPF, so perhaps the sump has been topped up with diesel as the oil level has dropped, but then I'm told as the car gets regular motorway use, it's possible that it's never actually done an active regen, and that the exhaust gases get hot enough, frequently enough for it to keep itself clear. Certainly I've never noticed any of the rough running, temporary loss of power, or smoke that the handbook tells me to be aware of if the DPF regenerates.
At 130,000 miles, the PD130 engine in the Golf sips about 500-750ml between oil changes (10k). Just enough that you feel you need to give it a little top-up, but not so much that you probably wouldn't get away with it if you didn't.
We had a 98 Polo 1.9D a few years ago (horrible little car in every respect) that used to use about a litre every 1500-2000 miles. Had done since my in-laws bought it new. No other apparent problems. That's just the way they were apparently.
Last edited by: DP on Sat 2 Mar 13 at 09:28
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I never had that in the X1 either DP - guess it's down to driving it like you stole it approach...That had a traditional dipstick - I prefer the electronic version on the 3 series. 4 or five keystrokes on the stalk.
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>> I never had that in the X1 either DP - guess it's down to driving
>> it like you stole it approach...That had a traditional dipstick - I prefer the electronic
>> version on the 3 series. 4 or five keystrokes on the stalk.
>>
The F30's oil readout is accessed via the iDrive's Vehicle Status menu.
You park up on a level surface, with the engine idling at operating temperature (seems to need about 90 degrees C or more on the oil temp gauge), then you invoke a "measure" routine via the Vehicle Status menu on the iDrive. The engine idle picks up from 800 to about 1000 RPM, and a little progress bar scrolls across the screen. A few moments later, the idle speed returns to normal and the readout is displayed on the screen.
I don't really understand what is wrong with a conventional dipstick to be honest, but it's certainly different :-)
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No iDrive on my three - works very simply though through much the same parameters - the one on the GS is the same - side stand has to be up though !
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>> The F30's oil readout is accessed via the iDrive's Vehicle Status menu.
>>
>> You park up on a level surface, with the engine idling at operating temperature (seems
>> to need about 90 degrees C or more on the oil temp gauge), then you
>> invoke a "measure" routine via the Vehicle Status menu on the iDrive. The engine idle
>> picks up from 800 to about 1000 RPM, and a little progress bar scrolls across
>> the screen. A few moments later, the idle speed returns to normal and the readout
>> is displayed on the screen.
I just wonder whether it will still be working ten years down the line. Imagine having to spend money fixing an electronic oil readout just to know what the oil level is. It's the way things are going.
A mate of mine is selling his 320D touring (E91). It's been chipped and had the swirl flaps removed. Never given him a moments trouble, and he drives his diesels properly - hard. It'll be a nice car for someone. I don't want it though. I'm finding myself drawn more towards the older/bangernomics side of motoring. Must be turning into a dinosaur :)
Last edited by: corax on Sat 2 Mar 13 at 11:48
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>> At 130,000 miles, the PD130 engine in the Golf sips about 500-750ml between oil changes
>> (10k). Just enough that you feel you need to give it a little top-up, but
>> not so much that you probably wouldn't get away with it if you didn't.
>>
Sounds about the same as Mrs B's Sharan with that engine. Its coming up to 90K and I don't think I've ever topped it up between services. It was on long life servicing, but when our annual mileage dropped to about 10K I switched it to time/distance
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>> Sounds about the same as Mrs B's Sharan with that engine. Its coming up to
>> 90K and I don't think I've ever topped it up between services. It was on
>> long life servicing, but when our annual mileage dropped to about 10K I switched it
>> to time/distance
Brilliant engines. Probably the last "old school rugged" diesel.
I was talking to a friend last week who has had a 2005 Fabia vRS from new. Although religiously serviced (with the expensive LongLife oil) every 10,000 miles, it's been remapped to 175 bhp, misfuelled (and run until it stopped) once, and is driven hard, including the odd trackday. It's now on 150,000 miles and is still as fast as ever, and 100% reliable. It spins the wheels in 3rd on bone dry tarmac. Hilarious car.
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My first car 'rattle' needed new piston rings, it was solid in terms of body work but the engine was shot, that used about 1 litre per 100 miles. I used to buy the crappest 20/50 oil and fill it with that.
My mates Fiesta also had the same problem.
My Panda uses about 1 litre per 4000 miles, it is a little high but well within the tolerances so I am not worried. The engine gets a hammering as its all city use.
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>> The engine gets a hammering as its all city use.
Yeah, all that valve bounce in the bottom three ratios... what with all the wheelspin, handbrake turns, inadvertent spins and locked-wheels halts the tyres, transmission and brakes probably need attention too.
After knackering a new car in 10,000 miles you should be in form for a couple of laps in the Reasonably Priced Car Sheikha.
You really must give up all this getaway driver stuff. You must be absolutely terrifying.
Have you rolled it yet? Cars are often still good after a roll, more or less.
:o}
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>> Have you rolled it yet? Cars are often still good after a roll, more or
>> less.
>>
>> :o}
My Fiat 850 Special, ancestor of the Panda, was.
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This forum is just great! A sincere "Thank You" to everyone who has posted on this thread.
I feel much more reassured and enlightened now. I like the car overall, and don't want to have any reason to start worrying about it just yet! :-)
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>> I was talking to a friend last week who has had a 2005 Fabia vRS
>> from new. Although religiously serviced (with the expensive LongLife oil) every 10,000 miles, it's been
>> remapped to 175 bhp, misfuelled (and run until it stopped) once, and is driven hard,
>> including the odd trackday. It's now on 150,000 miles and is still as fast as
>> ever, and 100% reliable. It spins the wheels in 3rd on bone dry tarmac. Hilarious
>> car.
I always wanted one of those! Envy, envy.
SWMBO would not allow me to chip our 2001, bought new, Fabia 1.9tdi, though!
It was still decently quick for a standard motor.
Never use more than a cupful of oil between services. Our Alhambra 1.9tdi (much regretted sale really) used none at all in our year of ownership.
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How much oil consumption is "OK"?. - Stuu
