The 2006 Picasso has gone - replaced by a brand new Berlingo XTR Diesel 1.6 90 with a 6 speed electronic auto box. Took less than 24 hours from walking in to a dealers VIP event and driving away with the only brand new one they had. The sales manger did not even know they had it in stock!
First impressions after 8 days (and 500 miles) is that the auto box is very smart and and smooth. Mixed motorway and country urban driving and only once has it not performed perfectly satisfactory gearchanges and that was only the merest change up change back down when accelerating away up an incline.
The auto engine stop start is a little disconcerting at first when driving in slow moving traffic but you soon get used to it. However you need to read the manual to discover that the auto stopstart does not work when the blower is set to demist! What is that all about?
The one design defect(?) appears to be that if you put the handbrake on (eg at a jucntion or behind a temp stopped vehicle) and if you do not keep your foot on the brake pedal (stop lights on, dazzling driver behind?) the engine immediately restarts. Defeating the economy function.
Jury is out on economy cf the Picasso (which averaged 51mpg over 51000 miles).
The reason for shifting it was that at 7 years the battery, was slightly less enegetic than it had been, the exhaust system was showing signs of age, 4 tyres were imminient , front pads and discs had reached the end (3mm) and an MoT was due in 30 days. So I could easily have spent a #1000 and see now improvement in the vehicle.
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Is that the EGS box? I've driven a picasso with that box and found it OK once you got used to it, but had a rental 5008 a few months back and that was awful - you were at risk of whiplash while it decided which gear to randomly select
Stop start design sounds poor - the system in the Volvo works on the car being in neutral, clutch up, and car stationary. That said, I'm not sure how it works on the auto model.
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Yes the 6 speed EGS box. I test drove it before comitting to buyand found it totally acceptable. There were poor reports on early models but it makes better changes than I can!
Do they get worse over time?
Last edited by: pmh on Tue 19 Feb 13 at 20:44
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>> Do they get worse over time?
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No idea - the ones I drove were hire cars so less than 6 months old, but on the flip side may have had hard lives!
Not really noticed any issues over longevity either
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They can worsen, but not always! The clutch will wear like any clutch and the gearchange can be adjusted if necessary.
I didn't get on with single clutch automated manuals in a few installations, but maybe the newer ones are better? Does your Berlingo have a grip control thingy on it?
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>>Does your Berlingo have a grip control thingy on it?<<
yes - it allows you to overide up/down - I dont know if there is an interlock to prevent over-reving on an incorrect (or double) down change when in auto. Could be an expensive experiment. Historically I have always block changed, which may account for the economy on the Picasso.
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>> the auto stopstart does not work when the blower is set to demist! What is that all about?
Demist requires airco to dry the air and the airco pump is still engine driven?
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>> >> the auto stopstart does not work when the blower is set to demist! What
>> is that all about?
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>> Demist requires airco to dry the air and the airco pump is still engine driven?
>>
I could buy into that idea, but use of the aircon without demist allows auto stop/start to function normally:)
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>>... the auto stopstart does not work when the blower is set
>> to demist! What is that all about?
>>
Blower on max may chill the heater matrix without water pump circulating engine coolant making it pointless, and the blower may draw enough current to drop the battery power, jeapordising the next restart.
Just guessing ...
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More likely that demist is regarded as safety critical to some degree, and stopping it momentarily could stop you seeing where you are going and cause big problems
Where as interrupts to normal air con at worst will cause a little discomfort to passengers, it’s hardly in the same league as interrupting the drivers vision
So sounds like just being careful
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>>draw enough current to drop the battery power, jeapordising the next restart. <<
The restart starter motor is, ( I am told), separate and powered from an 'another battery' and if insufficient charge is available stop/start mode is inhibited. i am going to have to get under the bonnet :)
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Didn't know that stop-start is fitted in automatics as well.
When exactly it stops the engine? The moment you press the brake?
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>> When exactly it stops the engine? The moment you press the brake?
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It stops when you are pressing the brake pedal and are stationary. It restarts on release of brake pedal.
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The C4 GP cuts out when the speed drops below 6km/h and in neutral, don't need to be braking.
Stop/start doesn't usually activate much in the winter with the heater, lights, wipers and heated seats on.
In summer with temp in the mid-30's Celsius stop/start is a bit of a joke, with the aircon running it quickly restarts for the compressor when the circulating air starts to warm up.
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>> Blower on max may chill the heater matrix without water pump circulating engine coolant making
>> it pointless, and the blower may draw enough current to drop the battery power, jeapordising
>> the next restart.
>>
That would have been my second guess, the "keep the heater warm" bit. Toyota moved to fitting an electric water pump[1] on the Prius III for precisely this reason.
I doubt the blower drain's an issue. Cars with Start/Stop invariably have monitoring of the battery to ensure that the engine runs if the charge level drops significantly.
[1] No, that's not the one that was the subject of a recent recall. That was the electric pump for the electric motor coolant and I'm fairly sure the problem was restricted to the Mk II.
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>>
>> The one design defect(?) appears to be that if you put the handbrake on (eg
>> at a jucntion or behind a temp stopped vehicle) and if you do not keep
>> your foot on the brake pedal (stop lights on, dazzling driver behind?) the engine immediately
>> restarts. Defeating the economy function.
>>
What if you stick it in "Park"? Surely a Park/Drive cycle is more usual than using the handbrake on an auto anyway? Does it not, like a regular auto, attempt to move off against the handbrake, resulting in a shunt if the handbrake fails to hold?
Also, Neutral and handbrake?
Last edited by: TeeCee on Wed 20 Feb 13 at 15:22
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There is no Park. It's an automated manual not a TC auto.
It's got the full house of gb's must have features ;-)
- automated single clutch manual gearbox
- electric handbrake
- dpf
- dmf
Berlingo !
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>> There is no Park. It's an automated manual not a TC auto.
>> It's got the full house of gb's must have features ;-)
>> - automated single clutch manual gearbox
>> - electric handbrake
>> - dpf
>> - dmf
>>
>> Berlingo !
>>
not an electric handbrake!
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>> not an electric handbrake!
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You're right, that's the C4. My wife doesn't like driving the Berlingo so much but the kids love it for the ease of access and space. One of the few cars that can make a C4 GP feel cramped.
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I assume that it is not electric from the feel. However there does seem to be some sort of hill assist when moving off on an incline.
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B.I.l. Has been using this Gearbox in the C4 Grand Picasso and no problems for five years. Very practical car the Berlingo stacks of room.My wife liked the CP4 Picasso seats very comfortable.New models are coming out this year C4 and CP4.
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>> There is no Park. It's an automated manual not a TC auto.
>> It's got the full house of gb's must have features ;-)
:-)))
Do automated manuals have DMF's?
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>> Do automated manuals have DMF's?
I hope so otherwise imagine the confusion on the production line.
Jean-Claude: Hey Pierre is this going in a manual or EGS ?
Pierre: Gives a Gallic shrug & wanders off for a Gitanes break muttering 'Ow shood I kare' in his best Joey Barton accent.
Last edited by: gmac on Wed 20 Feb 13 at 20:49
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The Prius has an electric a/c compressor.
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>> The Prius has an electric a/c compressor.
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Electric pretty much everything:
A/C compressor.
Steering.
Electric motor cooling pump.
Engine cooling pump on later models.
Transmission. Yes, I know it's got a planetary gear system directly coupled to the engine, but what that does is entirely dependant on #1 motor/generator. Also here the parking pawl is electrically operated, so you're not going anywhere without that doing its stuff.
....and all the usual electric bits that everything else has.
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AFAIK the EGS uses the same manual box and clutch, just with clutch and change actuators bolted on the outside, and a 'brain' somewhere.
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Citroen Berlingo Multispace II - Auto gearbox first impressions - mikeyb
