Just typical...................
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21033078
"Black carbon, or soot, is making a much larger contribution to global warming than previously recognised, according to research.
Scientists say that particles from diesel engines and wood burning could be having twice as much warming effect as assessed in past estimates.
They say it ranks second only to carbon dioxide as the most important climate-warming agent."
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 29 Jan 13 at 00:50
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Climate Scientists and their supporters have been guilty of gross exaggeration.
World temperatures have not risen since 1997. tinyurl.com/8c56ces
But then, anyone who believes uncritically what the Met Office says really must be naive...
Given that many of the major climate exponents love to fly to conferences - see J Prescott - I treat tehir remarks with disdain..
(See Prince Charles worry about teh Environment and then see what cars he owns.
(And yes Global Warming is real as anyone with any reading of history or who has see UK history on TV will realise..)
The next Ice Age is due in about 10,000 years time...
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>> See Prince Charles worry about teh Environment and then see what cars he owns.
His Aston Martin DB5 is converted to run on bioethanol:
upthear.se/bigears (Links to DM)
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"His Aston Martin DB5 is converted to run on bioethanol:"
Lucky Charles who can do that using surplus British wine.
The switch to biofuels (and the fact that up to 40% of US maize now goes to producing biofuels) has resulted in huge increases in price of maize (and hence meat prices since much of it used to go to fattening up cattle and pigs) and increased deforestation in tropical areas to grow crops for biofuel.
www.guardian.co.uk/business/economics-blog/2012/sep/05/cheap-food-stop-putting-it-in-cars
www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2007/aug/17/biofuelsmenacerainforests
Also increases air pollution according to Guardian
www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jan/07/biofuel-air-quality
P
PS Thought Guardian might make a change from the Mail!!
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"They say it ranks second only to carbon dioxide as the most important climate-warming agent." "
Well that's OK then:-
a) Climate isn't "warming significantly more now than it has since end of Little Ice Age" (see madf below and latest Met Office thing cunningly announced on Christmas Eve in hope it would be missed!)
b) Carbon dioxide is not an important climate warming agent!
c) What happened to methane? I thought we were all doomed because of methane escaping from thawing permafrost in Russia (though how it thaws when temps are -30deg I don't know!)
d) "Black carbon, or soot, is making a much larger contribution to global warming than previously recognised". Since it ain't warming, thank goodness, 'cos otherwise we would be heading for another Little Ice Age!
e) They say "Global Warming" has been 0.8 deg since 1880. Can somebody PLEASE tell me how they got the global temp accurate to 0.8 deg in 1880?
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They say "Global Warming" has been 0.8 deg since 1880. Can somebody PLEASE tell me how they got the global temp accurate to 0.8 deg in 1880?
They took the records from the UK, USA, and France and Germany , worked out the relationship between those and other countries which had no records then - based on current relationships .. and extrapolated..
The above is of course a joke.. But whatever they did was bound to be an extrapolation.. as global oceans temperature measurements only started with satellites .. and Oceans cover 70% of the Earth (approx)
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"They say "Global Warming" has been 0.8 deg since 1880. Can somebody PLEASE tell me how they got the global temp accurate to 0.8 deg in 1880? "
Scientists have been measuring global sea temperatures since the British Challenger expedition in 1872 and have detailed records extending over 135 years
www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=135-years-of-records-reveals-deep-o-12-04-01
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Thanks GCN, not seen that before. Several links in article, some of which I have read.
Question still remains even after reading
"This, the first global-scale comparison of Challenger and modern data, shows spatial mean warming at the surface of 0.59 °C±0.12, consistent with previous estimates of globally averaged sea surface temperature increase. Below the surface the mean warming decreases to 0.39 °C±0.18 at 366 m (200 fathoms) and 0.12 °C±0.07 at 914 m (500 fathoms)."
Is this any more than we would expect from the emergence of LIA? How much of it is due to "natural" influences and how much to man's influence?
I realise that there will be a time lag between land temps and ocean temps. (Specific heat of water and all that!)
There is also the problem of "0.59 °C±0.12" when readings from thermometers in 1872 or even 2012 are only accurate to 1 degree. (I used to take weather readings from a Stevenson screen and the observation only allowed for whole degree readings) So, 0.59 °C±0.12 must be derived from averaging/analysing whole number readings??? As such, am I wrong in assuming that 0.59 deg could be either 0 or 1?
T'aint much since 1872! Hardly "catastrophic global warming!!
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"There is also the problem of "0.59 °C±0.12" when readings from thermometers in 1872 or even 2012 are only accurate to 1 degree."
Properly calibrated thermometers are 100 times more accurate than that:
"According to British Standards, correctly calibrated, used and maintained liquid-in-glass thermometers can achieve a measurement uncertainty of ±0.01 °C in the range 0 to 100 °C, and a larger uncertainty outside this range:"
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"According to British Standards, correctly calibrated, used and maintained liquid-in-glass thermometers can achieve a measurement uncertainty of ±0.01 °C in the range 0 to 100 °C, and a larger uncertainty outside this range:"
Do you have a link for that quote GCN? Hard to believe of the standard thermometer in a Stevenson screen when scale between degrees is only a few mm.
Ta
P
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C'mon lads its not meant to be taken seriously, its the first of the propaganda salvos, get the easily led the tree huggers and other assorted weirdos on side, then as this notion gradually becomes established unquestioned truth (as global/change) the VED and environmental city taxes can be heaped on.
Its about money, its always about money, and lucrative jobs for the boys.
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"Its about money, its always about money, and lucrative jobs for the boys."
Trouble is gb, it's our money.
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I agree Phil and it grieves me just as much, but there's nothing we can do about it other than pay as little tax as you can, starve the beast, don't pay for any media or publication that prints propaganda for the system and definately don't watch or listen to the state broadcaster, its quite liberating.
Or if you're going to buy a car thats going into £470 VED don't ponce about with a 3 litre V6 thats just over the limit, get a monster gas guzzling 2.5 ton V8 that sounds like thunder and stirs the loins, then get it LPG converted.
Its no cheaper to run than the 3 litre V6 if you use it, but every fill up only gives the beast around half the tax take, that helps make it all worth it.
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>> Or if you're going to buy a car thats going into £470 VED don't ponce
>> about with a 3 litre V6 thats just over the limit, get a monster gas
>> guzzling 2.5 ton V8 that sounds like thunder and stirs the loins,
>>
I had a 4.0 V8 Disco like that for a while. Best bit was the number of people who tried to carve it up and found out the hard way that an essential part of that process is ensuring it says "TDi" on the back rather than "V8i" before trying it on. Firm application of the loud pedal made it take off like a scalded cat.
There were so many TDi's around and the badging differences were so subtle that the V8i's were quite effective "Q" cars.
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"Do you have a link for that quote GCN?"
Here is the type of mercury thermometer they used.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversing_thermometer
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In France you get a fairly large tax credit on a new woodburning stove or boiler - have done for years. Although there are a lot of spare trees over here it never did seem quite right.
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The only known facts about the environment are that it is inexorably linked to the tax system, and that, as a result of this, the goalposts are incredibly mobile.
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"www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21033078
"Black carbon, or soot, is making a much larger contribution to global warming than previously recognised, according to research.
Scientists say that particles from diesel engines and wood burning could be having twice as much warming effect as assessed in past estimates.
They say it ranks second only to carbon dioxide as the most important climate-warming agent."
Hang on a minute - I've just been to the research quoted by the bbc thing above and it says this
"the best estimate of net industrial-era climate forcing by all black-carbon-rich sources becomes slightly negative (-0.06 W m-2 with 90% uncertainty bounds of -1.45 to +1.29 W m-2). The uncertainties in net climate forcing from black-carbon-rich sources are substantial"
Doesn't that mean that theeffects of black carbon or soot has no " climate warming" effect at all? Maybe even slightly negative (cooling) effect?
Get out of those 4x4s, you are making the planet cooler!!!
Or am I misunderstanding?
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"Scientists say that particles from diesel engines and wood burning could be having twice as much warming effect as assessed in past estimates."
Sounds like these '$cientists' want some grants.
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Gestures to express apology for mistakes or clumsiness, and thanks for considerate treatment, come naturally to me and usually seem to work. I make such signals to drivers and pedestrians.
Hand-waves of various kinds, usually inside the car, facial mugging and sometimes the use of hazard flashers or headlamp flasher. People may misunderstand them sometimes but so far they haven't taken dangerous offence.
I notice sometimes when people boorishly fail to thank me for considerate driving, but it doesn't annoy me much. Some people simply are boorish. Pedestrians are the worst, but in their case there is often an ideological component, stupid carphounds.
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>> Do pay attention AC.
OOh, ah, wrong thread, duh, sorry o ...
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Diesel not that good an idea after all.... - madf
