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We are due to change our car a Ford Focus this year.I looked at various cars with larger boot space to lift my wife wheelchair in.The Focus boot is to small.We have narrowed it down to the Citroen Picasso C4 MPV.My wife will decide she is paying for the lease and she found the seats of the citroen the most comfortable.Easier to get in and out of than the Focus.We are going for a test drive on Sunday in the six manual gear change car.The five seater has a full spare tyre which is a bonus.The engine is a 1.6 HDI Diesel I believe similair or the same? as the Focus 1.6 TDCI which we have now.Should be economical I hope.Anybody on the forum has this car?
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>>>The engine is a 1.6 HDI Diesel I believe similair or the same? as the Focus 1.6 TDCI which we have now.Should be economical I hope.Anybody on the forum has this car? <<<
Ford now use the same PSA developed mechanicals but I believe that they developed their own ECU mapping although i may be wrong.
My 1.6 Hdi (90) in the picasso Xsara body (the old shape) has done a true 51mpg over 54k miles. Still marginally improving, with a mix of local and long distance. Indicated mpg is generally over optimistic by widely varying amounts - never really found out why/how.
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>>>Anybody on the forum has this car?
Well not exactly the same car but my C5 Tourer was a 1.6HDi and that had been faultless when it went back after 3yrs just recently. Always over 50mpg unless the journeys were very short/town... nudging on towards 60mpg on a long holiday run.
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My parents have got a 2011 1.6 HDi 110 EGS Exclusive 5 seat, and we've got a 2008 1.6 HDi 110 VTR+ Manual 7 seat. The 5 seat is more economical (6 speed rather than 5) - they are getting high 40's on a mix of local country and longer runs - our 7 seat is rather less at around low 40s. My wife uses ours about town quite a lot and no problems with the DPF. There are plenty of horror stories out there, but many are associated with early cars / engines. Plenty of these sold, so there are plenty of satisfied owners out there. In build quality it is light years ahead of the Xsara Picasso, which feels agricultural by comparison. Supringsly sprightly even with only 110 horses. If you need auto make sure you have long test drive, and try out the EGS in all situations - some can live with it, some hate it with a passion. My Dad gets on it with it OK - you just have to let it do it's own thing. The electric handbrake is an annoyance, but again you get used to it. Make sure it is serviced on time (or early) otherwise the turbos tend to wave good bye (shouldn't be a concern on a Motability car!) - likewise DIY servicing is a pain as some routine jobs (pollen filter, air filter, fuel filter) are much harder than they need to be.
We like ours - comfortable, handling is OK given the size of the car, easy to get in and out of, good headlights if you drive a lot in the dark, plenty of space. I'd have another no problem.
Interestingly I had a 3008 on hire last week, and prefer the C4 Picasso - the 3008 has a massive (and I mean massive!) centre console which your gear arm sits on - then the aux socket is under your arm so if you've got a sat nav etc plugged in you catch it each time you change gear. The orange LCD read out is low rent compared to the the one on the Picasso, but worst gripe is the standard steering wheel - whereas the C4 has the fixed hub with all the radio and cruise controls easily visible on the front, the 3008 does with a standard wheel and the controls on stalks behind the wheel (which is Pug std I think) - so you can't see them. I didn't try to change the radio, but cruise use is by feel only when on the run. Mind you, the 3008 does have a temp gauge which is an ommission from the C4.
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Thanks for the input I was a bit worried about reliability.We do like the C4 The seats are very comfortable and the car feels spacious inside.Also two arm rest in the front and plenty of widht.
We will take our granddaughter regulary on trips there are proper connections for a child seat.
I like to go for the auto I believe it is a semi box with paddles never used that type.I have driven the Honda cvt which I found excellent.I reckon this auto box will be different.My wife likes the look of the car and the vieuw up front.Went to Ford C Max S max Citroen beats them on comfort.She didn't take to the Peugeot.I'm not a boy racer so not bothered about taking corners at speed.It is a MPV.
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Yes, the 'auto' with this engine is a semi-auto - it's actually the same box as in the manual just with a clutch and gear change actuator, same single dry plate clutch as the manual. You get a lever on back on the steering wheel to select auto-manual-netural-reverse-park and then up and down paddles. It will happily run in auto, and I think you can override individual changes - or you can run it in manual and it will not change up or down unless you come to a stop. It can be a bit lurchy as it changes gear on the run, and parking on a hill with the electric handbrake can be interesting (although it has hill hold as well). You just need to make sure you can live with its foibles!
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A Dutchman living with French foibles.>:) What it does say in the handbook that the semi auto is more economical than the diesel.Brother in law has the 7 seater Citroen with the autobox.I will ask him to let me drive the car I find out myself what it's like.If not happy I stick with the 6 speed manual.I soon adapt to a car nothing is perfect.Plenty of airbags good in the crashtest which I hope never happens is also very inportant to me.I rather have a mechnical handbrake but if the electric one works fine by me.
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We're over 9 months into our second lease of a 7 seater 1.6HDi EGS.
The first car covered 35k kms in three years averaging 37mpg, the new one has averaged 42mpg over the first 15k kms with Stop/Start.
The first one had to go back twice, once for a leaking mixer box after which the fuel consumption improved but too late in the lease to make much difference overall, the other recall was for a sheared off mounting bolt on the water pump I think it was.
The new car has been back twice, once for reprogramming when the EGS started clunking the gear changes, they all do that Sir ! didn't work when I pointed out the previous one didn't. The second recall was after the radiator fan froze solid causing the engine service light to come on, something which had never happened with the previous car and I wonder if there is something in the front end tidy up which allows the snow and frost in.
Each time the cars have been back my wife has been dealt with courteously and provided with a replacement vehicle while hers was off the road. Minor inconvenience taking the car in but she was kept mobile the whole time. Things go wrong, it's how the company responds which counts for me.
My wife loves driving the car, finds it easy to get in and out of and to drive. Loading our two small children in and out of their child seats is easy with three good size, individual, middle row seats. The rear seats are also easily accessible.
Improvements made include a dipstick which is now readable and the additional equipment to a model which has now been around since late 2006. The first car we had was marked Tendance which is the equivalent of the VTR+ in the UK, our car had electronic climate control which can override the passengers settings instead of the alloys fitted to UK cars.
The new car is a Selection model which sits roughly halfway between the VTR+ and Executive or Exclusive available in the UK. Still no alloy wheels and sensible 215/55x16 94H tyres. It also has a split tailgate now so just the glass can be opened or the whole tailgate (won't help with a wheelchair but handy for jackets and other light bits and pieces), heated front seats and blinds in all windows from the B pillars back rather than tinted windows.
I'm not sure about the 5 door but the 7 door requires min. 80cms behind the car to open the rear hatch, you might want to check that for access with a wheelchair.
The huge windscreen makes the interior light and airy however much of the time we drive with the blind pulled forward.
The service interval in Europe is 20k kms. The first service I had done in the UK while I was over, it came to about £180. I was quoted 320€ in Germany by the selling dealer.
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I bought one of these a few years ago. The garage let me have all day in a Grand 1.6 HDI VTR+ manual, and I was pleased with it, so bought a used Grand 2.0 HDI Exclusive EGS, which was a big mistake! I went for the Exclusive for the self-levelling rear suspension, but unknown to me at the time the seats were subtly different - but enough to give me back-ache when driving it. I also could not get on with the EGS box and soon sold the car.
The basic car is good - comfortable, reliable, good performance, light and airy, roomy. But to me it is very specification sensitive. I would buy one again, but not an Exclusive, and not an EGS. They did do a 'proper' torque converter auto, but not sure that this is still available? I would be perfectly happy with a 1.6 HDI VTR+ manual, which also has a full-sized spare which is rare these days.
There is a new model later this year or early next, but if it's a Motability lease, that won't matter to you (financially).
I now have an S-Max which is and feels a bigger, heavier car than the C4GP. Much more direct steering and less body roll, and nicer to drive but in the class above, really.
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Agree Bb the S-Max is a class bigger and strangely feels lower and more car like as a passenger.
Our new car doesn't have a spare, the 2009 car had an underfloor space saver. I have not seen the can of gunk for this one, it doesn't have RF tyres as there's no TP monitor.
The benefit of the EGS gearbox is the extra cooler box for drinks, I don't see the point of going manual as it's no ball of fire to drive just let the EGS get on and do its thing that said the 1.6 is often referred to as the better engine than the two litre for this setup.
Last edited by: gmac on Tue 15 Jan 13 at 19:25
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See if you can get an extended test drive with the PSA auto - I had one for a day and hated it. Compared to what you get with a DSG gearbox, it felt about 10 years out of date.
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My C4P experience was the inverse of BB's: demo in a 2.0 EGS Exclusive was enough to put me right off. Pity, because I'd gone along fully prepared to love the car, and even to forgive the awful clock-on-mantelpiece instruments (which are not reversed for RHD, so probably are more tolerable in Gmac's car.) But the EGS box - or rather, system - takes away any pleasure or fine control; not impossible or dangerous, but like trying to write with ski gloves on. Anyone with a shred of mechanical sympathy will hate it.
If the demo car had been a 1.6 manual - or the dealer had ever managed to arrange the 24h demo he kept promising and cancelled twice at short notice - we might not have gone down the solid but soulless (although with excellent dealer support) Toyota route you all know we did.
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>> Anyone with a shred of mechanical sympathy will hate it.
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Interesting comment, what did the two litre do ?
Typically the 1.6 changes up at just under 2000rpm and never falls off boost to feel laboured.
I have not thought about the instrument panel, I check the speed now and again, the rest I largely ignore. Don't care what gear it's in or how many rpm it's doing. The fuel gauge beeps when it gets down to roughly the last gallon and a half and there's no temp gauge. Anything else flashes and beeps. I check the fluids and tyres every week or so and that's it. For us it's a family bus, or the shed as I call it.
If I want involved motoring I've got 150bhp packaged in 190kgs on two wheels.
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Yeah, one of your lot nearly 'involved' me from the Harry Potter lane on the M4 tonight.
}:---P
The Picasso was five years ago, so I don't remember details, but my recollection is of a car that offered neither the smoothness of a good automatic nor the crisp precision of a manual.
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I wouldn't argue with that, buying a used one will be a nightmare too not knowing if the driver slipped it back into neutral or left it idling in gear hammering the release bearings.
That could explain why some of them need new clutches in as little as 20,000 miles.
Not one of my lot, Motorways aren't for bikes other than couriers who have to get somewhere.
A bike hitting a LEC would be like a car bouncing off a 42 tonner, you wouldn't even notice it ;-)
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Sis-in-law has a GP 2.0 petrol EGS, which she bought against my advice and doesn't like the EGS either, but she is one of the worst drivers on the road with absolutely no mechanical sensitivity at all!
The problem with the EGS as I see it is that you really have to use the throttle like a manual, i.e. lift off slightly when you change gear. The problem is you are never sure when the computer is going to decide to change gear. You get to learn it, a bit, but never fully. And when you don't lift off, or more likely, get the timing slightly wrong, you get the lurching. As the Ferret says, twin clutch automated manuals (DGS, Ford Powershift etc.) really do make the single clutch automated manuals (EGS) look old hat. I really hope PSA come out with a better auto box soon, as I love the idea of a DS5 with a drive-train to match its looks!
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It was the slow speed maneuvering that threw me. Nothing happened until you gave it a decent bit of welly, at which point it rocketed forwards or backwards at unreasonable speed.
Parking was a fraught task as you bounced back and forth in abrupt lurches between other parked cars / walls / pedestrians etc. I cannot describe how terrible it was.
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>> the Harry Potter lane on the
>> M4
???
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Two-and-three-quarters. Visible only to motorcyclists.
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Took the C4 mpv for a test drive last sunday.It was a 7 seater six gear manual gearbox.Some town driving and on the Motor way.
Very comfortable seats driving vieuw excellent.The car was easy to handle gearchanges smooth good sharp braking.The 1.6 Diesel pulled up nicely, making speed joining the motorway no problem.
We will be ordering the five seater 6 speed manual.
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Change of orders by the boss.She wants the 7 seater more room for the chair and she likes the sunroof.A big motor to park I will get used to it.
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Truth be told the 7 seater is not that much longer than the 5 seater. Better proportioned too IMO. I found the rearmost seats a bit fiddly to fold, but I suppose once done they can stay that way.
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I drove the 7 seater what a vieuw.The two backseats won't be used a lot.Only one grandchild to carry with us.The isofix are a bonus for the childseat.No car is perfect but I can live with this car.Very comfortable seats for the missus good back support.No spare tyre but I've orderd the skinny spare as part of the package.With the two backseats down stacks of room for the wheelchair and shopping.I will soon get used to parking the Citroen the 7 seater makes more sense.
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Wil you be getting a Brotherwood or similar conversion for the chair or can she manage with ordinary car?
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Just a thought here Dutchie, they are as rare as hens teeth....proper auto boxed C4 Pics, not my thoughts..;)
Citroen did offer a proper auto box in the C4 Pic, the 'Lounge' model, a very luxurious 4 seater (ISTR) with captains chairs and a 2 litre petrol engine, very comfortable and lovely box, distinguished from the rest as fitted with very shiny slightly grey chrome coloured alloy wheels....i delivered only a few as i said they were rare enough, an old workmate had one and they really liked it.
I don't know if that engine gearbox was ever offered in a 7 seater or even if its still available at all.
Assuming thats a no, then i think you'll be very pleased with the C4 Pic Diesel manual, i could not have the automated manual box if they paid me.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Tue 22 Jan 13 at 20:55
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Yes, good choice the 1.6 HDI manual. As you say, very good visibility out of that massive windscreen.
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Thanks for the advice from you all.Its my wifes Diana's choice I wasn't keen at first but did some research looked at different forums here and abroad overall good revieuws.If we really like the car and you need a bit of luck with any car might buy it after three years and keep the car.Good quality diesel give the engine a good blast once in a while.We will be going to London regulary.Look after a car and it looks after you that is what I've done over a long time of motoring.Kept my dads old VW Jetta for fifteen years driving on LPG and petrol.
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A new Motability car this year. - sherlock47
