www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20983462
Falling European sales!
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 14 Jan 13 at 10:13
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Says 800 jobs in the report!
edited title to reflect this
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 14 Jan 13 at 10:14
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Thats a real shame.
I wonder how much Honda's beating their popular models with the ugly stick has helped cause this, latest Civic especially, a car only a mother could love.
They used to make such quietly handsome cars, and in the case of Jazz still do.
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>> They used to make such quietly handsome cars, and in the case of Jazz still
>> do.
>>
The Prelude was a real beaut.
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>> They used to make such quietly handsome cars,
Boring sh-- for old farts you mean.
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Not at all, they are non-descript.
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Mitsi a bit like the good old Volvo 144/240 or Fiat 124/5 then Z, a basic three box brick shape and none the worse for that.
Nothing wrong with Honda's previous quiet evolution of car designs, Civics and Accord, well till around 2007 when the Civic went west and 09/10 when the Accord design team decided to out-steroid (badly) Mazda's 6, around 07/08 they didn't do CRV any favours either.
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>>good old Volvo 144...
This is exactly the same as the one my dad bought new in 1972. Still registered in the UK apparently.
iedei.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/volvo_144.jpeg
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Lovely old car that Humph.
I had a 122s, 144gle (big bumper model my favourite Volvo), 244, 245 estate, 760 estate and finally a 940 td se estate with the 6 pot VW LT van engine which we stupidly passed on to my sister, who abuses it and neglects it rotten, it never fails doesn't rust and somehow jump starts her Volvo artic several times a year whilst still on the same Varta battery thats been in it for well over 10 years without the 24v surge doing it any harm.
Expect even connecting a modern car to a 24v lorry would cause half the electronics to fail and a bill for £thousands would follow shortly.
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It was his attempt to reflect the rising price of petrol in the early '70s. It had ( I think ) a 1900cc 4 cylinder engine. He'd never, or at at least not for many years previously, had less than a 6 cylinder 3 litre. He went on to have, I think, 4 more Volvos after that. Curiously enough selling all of them for more than he'd paid for them. Raging inflation of course at the time.
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>> >>good old Volvo 144...
>>
>> This is exactly the same as the one my dad bought new in 1972. Still
>> registered in the UK apparently.
>>
>> iedei.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/volvo_144.jpeg
>>
Lovely car, lovely colour. But I can't stop humming Abba songs when I see pictures like that..
Last edited by: Boxsterboy on Fri 11 Jan 13 at 20:17
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>>Mitsi a bit like the good old Volvo 144/240<<
More like the V40 I would have thought.
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I thought the V or S 40 was quite a pretty shape D.
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I was going to buy a V40 2 years ago, the size suits me as it's niether too big nor too small, bit like the Lancer see ;)
And as for reliability, well, that goes without saying, dozen tit.
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I thought the S & V 40 of that model is a re-skinned Focus.
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>> I thought the S & V 40 of that model is a re-skinned Focus.
>>
I'm thinking of the earlier S40 Navy, one on same platform and built at same factory as Carisma, presumed our best mate D was thinking that model too.
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>> I'm thinking of the earlier S40 Navy, one on same platform and built at same
>> factory as Carisma, presumed our best mate D was thinking that model too.
Dog was thinking of the same model as you GB. The later model was the V50. With the V40 they did a nice spread of engines from a diesel to a 200bhp turbo, a bit of a sleeper really.
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Ah, OK. I had an 03 diesel Carisma, built like a brick outhouse and drove like one. Mine ate its (Volvo) gearbox at 12K miles, glad it was still under warranty, but I sold it when it was fixed and bought an 05 2.0 TDCI Focus. What a dramatic improvement !
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 11 Jan 13 at 20:35
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Don't think i ever drove a Carisma Diesel.
As Corax mentions the S40 did have quite a range, i liked them, one of my lads mates has just picked up a tidy 51 plate 2 litre petrol for about £400, it needed new tyres and new discs and thats it, he's got a tidy car there in good running order for roughly £650 all in, can't be bad.
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A brand with no 'halo' model is doomed to compete with the white-goods guys like Hyundai and KIA. (the Veloster is a turd so doesn't work as a halo - just like Honda's CRZ).
In that room Honda are waaaaaaaaaaaaay overpriced.
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My first mother in law had a Prelude. Horrible thing and so was the car come to that. I drove it a few times for reasons I've blocked out of my memory but I do recall it being all a bit formica-ish.
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Locally a waiter in an Italian restaurant was given a Carisma as a tip. I assume it was a very bad meal!
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>> Locally a waiter in an Italian restaurant was given a Carisma as a tip. I assume it was a very bad meal!
>>
A waiter with carisma? never been seen before :-)
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I wonder what it takes to make a manufacturer see the error of its ways? If ever a company could be said to have lost its way it must be Honda. Going exactly the same way as Peugeot - touch your product with the ugly stick in a bid to be different then sit back and watch your company (and workers) go down the pan. Sad, sad, sad. Well, it is for me - the owner and former owner of 13 of them and all bought with my own hard-earned because there was none better.
You must have really hated your ex-m-i-l Humph. The woodwork in my 280 Merc (again, bought with my own money) looked and felt like Formica.
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I like my Jazz but in some areas it is GROSSLY over -engineered - the fixings on the plastic panels internally are of very high quality - but no-one can see then and the suspension nuts are all split pinned.
None of this adds to perceived value and engineering wise in my view is overkill as others don't do it (eg Toyota)..
I agree with Lygonos: grossly overpriced... By about £2k on a £14k car..
Honda are living on the past glories of go faster cars in the 1990s - when they made some real fast cars - but today have morphed into a maker of competent very reliable but essentially boring cars.
Their electric hybrid is pants vs Toyota's being about 15% less fuel efficient and it cannot move with the engine switched off - unlike Toyota's (which means utter quiet).
Basically they need to add some cost savings - sensible ones - and some chutzpah to the model designs.. (Their stated aim is to double world sales in 5 years. They are building Fits - Jazz - in Mexico for the US market)
Any car maker which sells a hatchback in the UK with no rear wiper - as Honda did with the prior Civic - and MAJOR road noise problems has a bunch of pfd for designers and marketing.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 12 Jan 13 at 17:44
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>> Any car maker which sells a hatchback in the UK with no rear wiper -
>> as Honda did with the prior Civic - and MAJOR road noise problems has a
>> bunch of pfd for designers and marketing.
It's been said before - they're not interested in the UK. It's a sideline that is slowly diminishing.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 12 Jan 13 at 17:44
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Any car maker which sells a hatchback in the UK with no rear wiper...
Let's ask Londoner how he copes with his A5. That said, not much point in cleaning the back window of a Civic because there's a dirty big bar across it to block the view anyway.
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>> Let's ask Londoner how he copes with his A5. That said, not much point in
>> cleaning the back window of a Civic because there's a dirty big bar across it
>> to block the view anyway.
Surely these days some clever aerodynamic device could bleed air across, or pressurise the boundary layer of the rear window keeping it clear of muck?
A wiper is so 20th century dear.
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I don't have much time to look out of the rear window. You have to concentrate really hard when you are constantly driving six inches from the car in front.
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>> I like my Jazz but in some areas it is GROSSLY over -engineered - the
>> fixings on the plastic panels internally are of very high quality - but no-one can
>> see then and the suspension nuts are all split pinned.
>>
>> None of this adds to perceived value and engineering wise in my view is overkill
>> as others don't do it (eg Toyota)..
>>
>> I agree with Lygonos: grossly overpriced... By about £2k on a £14k car..
>>
We've had a previous model Jazz and we have the new one now. I think the new one feels less solid than the old one did, which felt as though it would last for ever (although a few weak points have appeared over the years).
We bought the new one without even looking at anything else. It's sad the car has an 'old person" image but my wife (not that old) absolutely loves it and I loved that absolutely nothing went wrong with the first one in the 6yrs we owned it and that the dealer (which Honda have recently effectively shut down by withdrawing the franchise from) had competent people on the service desk and never gave me any cause for concern in their care of the car.
Maybe they are overpriced - our EX with premium pack, 5yrs warranty and service plan was £15K - but to me they're worth a bit more for the certainty of the lack of hassle. I'm not good with hassle. Of course, if it ever goes wrong, then all that goes out of the window! And the new dealer has yet to prove themselves.
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In my view, Toyota do "boring" better.
Edit:
and cheaper.
Last edited by: madf on Sat 12 Jan 13 at 13:19
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I want to like Hondas but can't, SWMBO had a Civic FN3 which rode like a cart and was unreliable, I quite like the styling of the current Civic but I know it has ostensibly the same compromised suspension and rear visibility of the outgoing model so will avoid it.
Here in Aus Honda don't import any diesel derivatives leaving the Civic with a rev hungry 1.8, the Accord and CRV with a gutless and thirsty 2.4 - this is what put me off the attractively priced Accord Euro and CRV a few months back.
The CRV is popular here and so is the US/Japanese Accord, I think they import Civics and Accord Euros from the UK, I suspect (given the number of VAG, BMW and Fords sold with diesel) that were they to include the diesel derivatives they might sell rather more too. I guess Honda knows better than me...
As for Toyota, they make the Corolla (Auris) and Camry locally, they are popular fleet cars and very cheap to run.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Sun 13 Jan 13 at 23:33
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'I think they import Civics and Accord Euros from the UK... '
They haven't made the Accord in the UK since 2002.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-21024847
These 300 agency staff were provided through a third party agency and are not directly employed by Honda of the UK Manufacturing Ltd, he said.
"They were always due to finish working at the end of March 2013 and these conditions remain unchanged."
News of the 800 job cuts was revealed on 11 January.
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Honda - 500 jobs to go @ Swindon - Duncan
