My wife is thinking of changing her car soon and she can't decide whether to have a diesel or a petrol. She has had both in the past but her mileage isn't really the deciding factor, it's more about her preferences. She likes the torque of a diesel but she also likes the sportiness of a revvy little petrol engine. Completely different driving styles of course but each with their merits.
What do others prefer? For me, I can see sense in either provided the car is otherwise right...
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I've never done the miles to justify a diesel, so I've only ever owned petrols. The only diesels I've driven have been hire cars/work cars either PD or vauxhall. I can't say I was impressed with vx's effort it ran out of puff quickly, it was given a pointlessly high 6th gear and not that great on fuel. PD I can't remember a great deal about it, it was that rememberable. So for it's petrol, I can't get used to diesels outside vans.
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Whatever she chooses it may be worth finding out the cost of a replacement door mirror before going ahead with the purchase !
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>> Ooooh that hurt !
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>> ;-)
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But not as much as the 2 invoices from the dealer did ! :-)
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Nice one Skip, bet Hump's drying off the keyboard at this very moment..:-)
After some 28 years of almost full time ownership i now have no Diesel car and that will probably be permanent, just don't need the possible eye wateringly expensive possibility.
Not suggesting you go for LPG as we have done we both cars, it suits us as we have a reasonably priced reliable indy suppliers conveniently close by.
But, might be worth having a poke nose on www.filllpg.co.uk/index.php?page=lpg.php
(very slow site but worth the wait) and see if one of the cheaper indy's is on her normal routes, if so then it does give slightly more choice in vehicles as you could maybe look for something not so economical in pure petrol consumption.
Course there's also Hybrid to consider too if Diesel isn't chosen, Lexus GS450h or RX400h would probably be met with approval by Lady H.
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Let her choose the car on other factors and ignore the choice of power plant
Unless of course her driving profile is not suitable and will clog the DPF
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Good point Z. DPFs now on most newer stuff eh? I wonder if BobbyG's wife has thought of that? I believe he mentioned in another thread that she is currently looking for a new car too...
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Sun 30 Dec 12 at 17:16
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>> Good point Z. DPFs now on most newer stuff eh?
It has an upside of course.
"Dearheart, I see the DPF light is lit on your Golf 2.0 tdi GT, I'll need to go for a fast drive to clear it out for you...."
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My deciding factor was the smell in the garage when the Yaris diesel started up..
Electric parking wing mirrors are a boon for city/town parking...
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For the last few cars I've done low(isn) mileage with week after week of short trips.... I can work from home a lot and it's now encouraged not to travel if you can help it. Reduces expenses obviously. And like that bloke in the other thread (the one not wanting to go to work for 8am) I can get up later ;-) I also tend not to have a lunch hour and work into the evening... so I think it's win-win.
Anyway, this car (VW) and the last (Mazda) have DPFs. The VW will sometimes leave the fan running when I've stopped so it's doing a DPF regeneration. Oil level has not gone up and it's not expecting it's first service for almost another year or 8000 miles! I won't argue.
The Mazda6 was used the same and in fact I drove on some long runs some months (e.g. 400+ miles round trips) but through poor engineering/design the oil level would rise. The car would dump fuel in the exhaust to regenerate the DPF.... and some of the diesel went into the engine! I just got interim oil changes just in case.
Would I run a DPF car as my own? It wouldn't put me off but the cost benefits would have to be there. For my current driving profile a petrol makes more sense and a 2.0T VW would be excellent... but the BIK ruled it out. Next time round I suspect stop-start will be on the 1.8T/2.0T VAG cars and I might go petrol again.
And because my mileage can be local a lot of the time... MPG does drop a lot in the cold weather.
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If you are talking about buying something out of warranty, or running it after the warranty has ended then I would stick with petrol. I know that there are millions of trouble free diesels running around, but when a modern diesel goes wrong the costs can be eye watering.
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Good point skip - which is one of the reasons we have plumped for a petrol over diesel.
As a bonus the petrol tank is on left hand side of car so all those right sided pumps that are always empty at the station will come in handy...........
Seriously, I have a very good, trustworthy local mechanic and he was pointing me towards petrol - just so many things that can go wrong with diesel - horror stories abound with the Renault diesel pump issues for starters.
Of course as Skip suggests, you don't know if a used diesel has been misfuelled and anything with DPF is probably not suitable for my wife's daily 5 mile each way commute at 30mph.
And I like the smell of petrol better than diesel!
On a personal level though I much prefer a diesel, whether it be the 140bhp TDI in my Seat or the piddly 90bhp (I think) in the works Transit, I still prefer them over petrol.
But now that there is a petrol car in the family for the first time since a J Reg Nova (Saloon in faded red), my thoughts may change over the next wee while.
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>> But now that there is a petrol car in the family for the first time
>> since a J Reg Nova (Saloon in faded red),
BWAHHHHHHHHHHH BWAHHHHHHHHHHH BWAHHHHHHHHHHHHH
WARNING WILL ROBINSON
Missfueling episode imminent.....
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Might insist that from now on missus fills her car and I do mine and never the twain shall mix....
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>> when a modern diesel goes wrong the costs can be eye watering
The fact that I've just scrapped a mechanically sound 55 Mondeo because of DMF failure bears this out.
Humph, I prefer the driving characteristics of a diesel every day of the week. This here automatic Mazda thing is lovely, quiet and smooth but wringing 6,000rpm+ out of its 16v VVT engine every time I need some acceleration seems completely alien to me. As long as Mrs D'Bout can work around the DPF quirks (most drivers can, tbh) then get her a heavy oil machine. I expect you'll be buying low mileage so any weaknesses possibly affecting 80k-mile engines won't concern you.
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I'd book a back to back (petrol vs diesel) test drive in the car of choice and see how she gets on.
DPF from modern diesels gets a lot of bad press, we have yet to experience it in 4 years of low mileage motoring but we might just be lucky.
I was recently in the UK and had 4 days with a 1250cc Ford Fiesta. I'm guessing it was c.60bhp as it was gutless, required constant stirring of the gearstick and returned 30mpg while driving around hilly Northumberland.
If I were looking for a small petrol, given the weight of the superminis these days (1100-1400kgs), I would say it has to have at least 90bhp to make a go of it.
Last edited by: gmac on Sun 30 Dec 12 at 17:47
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>> DPF from modern diesels gets a lot of bad press, we have yet to experience
>> it in 4 years of low mileage motoring but we might just be lucky.
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To be fair Gmac, arn't you in a PSA jobbie?, whether you like them or loathe them they don't seem to suffer with blocked filters or any other problems with their EOLYS system with any running, though when the fluid runs out depending on model and garage that could be an expensive service i suppose.
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That's right gb, I could be wrong but I thought all the small (up to 2 litre diesels) used this recipe these days.
The expensive keyhole wallet surgery comes at 36k miles and 72k when it's fluid then filter though some inventive types appear to be able to clean out the filter at 72k without having to replace. I don't believe the fluid is any more expensive than spark plugs in a petrol over similar mileage.
My own diesel is EuroIII which is long out of warranty and minus the DPF gubbins. I'm on borrowed time with the DMF, glowplugs and EGR ;-)
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Isn't DPF choking a result of mimsing and trying to get 75mpg in urban areas? That's the impression I get. Nor does it seem that a heavy foot is needed to avoid trouble. Just not mimsing will do it.
Not that I've had any experience of a diesel car with a DPF. I'm such a mimser myself these days that I would be scared to try one.
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The other gem to consider is stop/start.
I noticed with the C4 GP that the stop/start hadn't been so active the last time I was in the car with my wife driving. She does lots of short journeys and this car has heated seats as well as the full compliment of other electrickery.
We had a bit of a run a couple of days ago up to the retail outlet in Roermond, on return the stop/start was back to its usual self.
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>> We had a bit of a run a couple of days ago up to the
>> retail outlet in Roermond, on return the stop/start was back to its usual self.
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Although my car does not have a stop start system (or DPF or DMF) :-) some Ceed models have it fitted. The system has eight parameters that have to be met before it will work, one of which is battery voltage.
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>> I was recently in the UK and had 4 days with a 1250cc Ford Fiesta.
>> I'm guessing it was c.60bhp as it was gutless, required constant stirring of the gearstick
>> and returned 30mpg while driving around hilly Northumberland.
>> If I were looking for a small petrol, given the weight of the superminis these
>> days (1100-1400kgs), I would say it has to have at least 90bhp to make a
>> go of it.
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I think that you are right gmac. The days of a standard 1.2 engine being sufficient to drag a modern supermini, which is now the same size as a medium family car of 20 years ago (& probably weighs more) around is over. The larger engine options in the range although more expensive to buy will always be better to drive and probably be more economical in real use.
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I'd be interested in having a bash in a Fiesta with the 1.0 turbo petrol in either 100 or 125bhp form. I think it's more what it produces rather than the capacity. I believe VW have a 1.2 with a turbo which produces around 100bhp too.
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>> I'd be interested in having a bash in a Fiesta with the 1.0 turbo petrol
>> in either 100 or 125bhp form. I think it's more what it produces rather than
>> the capacity. I believe VW have a 1.2 with a turbo which produces around 100bhp
>> too.
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I am still a bit wary of how long these small turbo charged petrol engines will last with having such high BHP's wrung out of them. Perhaps I am old school prefering larger unstressed lumps under the bonnet of my cars and I suppose that you cannot stop progress !
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The problem I have with petrol turbo's is they always need work before 100,000 miles. At least when I own them they do. I've run them at half the recommended oil change intervals and the turbo still needs replacing before a six figure mileage is achieved.
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depends on what you call a "supermini"
I hustled a new ford ka 1.2 69hp around jersey very quickly indeed, and couldn't get it below 36 mpg.
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I was thinking more your Fiesta, Clio, Punto type cars.
The Fiesta I mentioned further up the thread wouldn't get to the NSL in Northumberland. I was driving from Rothbury to Alnwick passed Cragside, the hill after Cragside held the car back to 55mph. It was giving nothing more in third or fourth, fifth was a no go zone.
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Think the Fiesta is 82bhp - yes I wouldn't want to take it a tour of the Highlands (I have an Altea turbo diesel for that) but 90% of the car's time will be spent on a daily 10 mile commute through town, with only driver on board, so think it should be pretty much fit for purpose.
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I expect it'll be better than you think Bobby. I had one of those Fiestas with that same engine on hire in Italy about a year ago. Two blokes and luggage on a business trip. I picked it up in Rome, drove over the mountains to Pescara then on to Ancona up to Venice, over to Padova and finally back to Rome over a 3 day trip.
It went well, handled very well and was comfortable. I enjoyed driving it. Might very well be a fine choice. What's more, at least you can drive this one yourself without looking like Noddy in a Beetle !
Supplementary question. I wonder why so many girls / women choose black cars? My car is black, all our company cars are but it's a pain to keep clean. When I look down our street though, most of the cars which I know are owned / driven by women are black. Or is that just a Cheshire thing?
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Mon 31 Dec 12 at 10:48
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Well apparently the girls say, once you have had had black you can never go back.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 31 Dec 12 at 10:58
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Just for the record, the gong wasn't mine.
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Should be fine for that use Bobby and as you say you've got the bigger car for the other work.
Big plus I think Ford use stainless steel exhausts so condensation shouldn't be so much of an issue either.
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"She likes the torque of a diesel but she also likes the sportiness of a revvy little petrol engine."
I think it's worth trying to see if you can get both qualities in one engine. I too like lots of torque to suit my driving style (I like to get a move on but prefer to do so without screamingly high revs). I can see why Mrs D'About liked the Ka she had before the Cashcow; that old Ford 1.3 did the job admirably.
I haven't tried either the new Ford 1.0 three-cylinder or the VAG 1.4 TSI, but road test reports are very favourable and they'll be worth a look. Certainly the 2.0 TSI in my Octavia vRS has plenty of low-down zing, and I've no regrets in coming back to petrol after five diesel cars in a row. It'll also give late-30s mpg on a long run - not as good as the previous diesel Octavia but very little worse than the Mercedes B200 CDI that I had a few years ago.
Does SWMBO want a Ka-sized or Cashcow-sized car, or something in the middle?
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She doesn't want anything Avant. This thread was a really bad and backfired attempt to get BobbyG some additional ammunition to persuade Mrs G she'd be alright with a petrol! Totally unnecessary as it turns out, he'd managed fine on his own! See his "chore" thread for details...
Mrs D will be keeping her Qashqai for now.
Whistles and wanders off slightly shame facedly looking at feet...
:-)
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Mon 31 Dec 12 at 12:06
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>> Whistles and wanders off slightly shame facedly looking at feet...
... then cheers up at the soothing sight of his brand-new endangered-species-skin pampooties tied just below the knee with elegant dyed rawhide laces...
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I think the choice needs to be made based on the model chosen. Some cars suit one better than the other, and in a lot of cases the manufacturing offers a decent engine line up in one fuel type and a half hearted effort in the other. Take big French cars - quite often best in class diesel engines, but maybe only one or two poor petrol offerings
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I'm so used to diesel now I find equivalent output petrol engines hard work. It's not like a typical modern naturally aspirated four cylinder petrol engine rewards with any real punch higher up the rev range to compensate for its lack of punch lower down either. They tend to have a linear, flat delivery with no sparkle anywhere. The diesels don't rev but at least they tend to feel genuinely quick at least somewhere in the rev range.
Maybe the new forced induction direct injection petrol stuff is more interesting.
Low annual mileage would be the only thing that would make me choose petrol.
Last edited by: DP on Mon 31 Dec 12 at 18:16
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My apologies again for the fictitious nature of this thread, the reasons for which are explained above and indeed my thanks for your indulgences but I suppose having started we should in time honoured etc well, finish.
I'm inclined to agree that modern turbo charged diesels are probably well suited to today's traffic conditions and fiscal privations particularly when coupled to automatic gearboxes where their limitations in terms of available rev bands are rather better disguised.
However, I've become quite used to driving my wife's 1.6 manual petrol Qashqai most weekends as a bike transport. At first it felt nothing more than pedestrian but once you're back into the swing of revving its nuts off it does please me well enough.
There's a certain honesty about it I had long forgotten. 42 mpg too which isn't bad.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Mon 31 Dec 12 at 18:36
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I switched back to petrol these last two years and it takes a bit of re-adjusting for sure. But I enjoy the greater rev range and smoothness, although I do miss the low down torque of my old Tdi. Had a 208 1.6 tdci on hire for 1000 miles in the summer and it was effortlessly swift once the turbo was spooled up, but below about 2000 rpm it had nothing at all compared to the old Tdi, which caught me out on roundabouts. Also drove a Golf 2.0 CR recently and thoroughly enjoyed that - could easily be tempted by that motor if I could be persuaded that VAG reliability and customer service had improved.
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Diesel or Petrol? - sooty123
