My fathers 10 year old Fiesta was found this morning after a week of non-use with BOTH front springs having apparently snapped. Sitting absolutely level at the front but about 6cm low. Made horrendous noise as he tried to reverse it, so he put it back in the garage. Tyre damage probably already done. Impossible to inspect due to tightnees of space Recovery truck on Monday. Asolutely adamant that it had no signs of asymmetric failure when he last used it.
Simultaneous failure? under static load? I do not believe in coincidences.
I suppose it is possible that the first failure had stayed 'in place' until the second spontaneously snapped, placing a sideways load on the first which then became displaced? Any better ideas.
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In my teenage years I did a Dukes of Hazzard over a bridge in my mums Mazda 323 - it wasnt for another 5 months we discovered both rear springs had snapped as it failed its MOT - car had driven perfectly though the breaks were near the very top of the spring so the movement may not have been great ( and a 323 doesnt exactly 'handle' anyway so hard to notice! ).
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>> In my teenage years I did a Dukes of Hazzard over a bridge in my
>> mums Mazda 323 - it wasnt for another 5 months we discovered both rear springs
>> had snapped as it failed its MOT - car had driven perfectly though the breaks
>> were near the very top of the spring so the movement may not have been
>> great ( and a 323 doesnt exactly 'handle' anyway so hard to notice! ).
>>
Mazda 323 vs General Lee, Did you ever tell your mum?
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>>Mazda 323 vs General Lee, Did you ever tell your mum? <<
"My car failed its MOT on its rear springs being snapped!" "Really mum? Well, must be those new speed bumps, better slow down in future..." :-)
I had my mate in the passenger seat at the time who didnt know the bridge was coming up, so when I hit it at 70 his head hit the roof of the car :-p
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The shock of one spring going and the subsequent unbalance up front can cause the other to go in sympathy.
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Look around on roads there you will see part of coil springs we have speed humps at work there's a few bits of metal around them, loads of cars are having them replaced 10 years is good.
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Mrs F called me out to Tesco yesterday where under the weight of a weeks shopping the drivers side front spring had snapped on her C3. The final collapse was as she pulled forward at 2mph from a parking space... they do go at the most odd times.
I drove it back carefully on quiet country roads risking the brake hose, ABS sensor wire and tyre sidewall. Had a quick look when home and all is well... spring arrives in a couple of days and I'll pop it on.
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>> ... risking the brake hose, ABS sensor
>> wire and tyre sidewall. Had a quick look when home and all is well
Really FL? Mrs H's Mk1 C3 had a bolt-on shield fitted under factory recall to contain the spring should it break. Is your C3 a Mk1 or 2? Must admit I haven't looked at Mrs H's Mk2 C3.
>> ... spring
>> arrives in a couple of days and I'll pop it on.
>>
Not entering the debate about replacing springs in pairs then?
Last edited by: hawkeye on Sun 30 Dec 12 at 15:01
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>>>Not entering the debate about replacing springs in pairs then?
Happy to.... one spring at a time and best tyres to the front??
Our C3 is a Dec 2006 and it doesn't have the safety cups neither does it come in the chassis range where Citroen will fit them.
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>> >>>Not entering the debate about replacing springs in pairs then?
>>
>> Happy to.... one spring at a time
I couldn't do that, now knowing the other one is going to go soon, in a way that could render the car uncontrollable.
In a pair for me. And yes Best tyres up the sharp end.
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pmh's dad is evidently a gung-ho parker. Drew up with all wheels locked and both front springs snapped under the extreme compression.
Any black lines behind it pmh? They would be a clue.
:o}
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It's a mutation of the neovirus which attacks metal.
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Any black lines behind it pmh?
We have closed the driveway to all traffic to allow detailed forensic study. Surrounded it with screens to ensure the neighbours are not subject to a possible triggers of PTSD, (most are deaf or blind, so not sure if totally necessary). Initial thoughts are the black lines are not enthusiastic braking, just viscious acceleration in the regular attempt to get to the pensioners special offers at Tesco on a weekly basis.
Problem is the cones shutting the road and the screens are still there, and I fear the recovery driver may not be able to find it tomorrow am:) If he is using his satnav, one wrong turn could leave him in the sea.
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And yes Best tyres up the sharp end.
>>
Correct, driven wheels get the best tyres.
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>> And yes Best tyres up the sharp end.
>> >>
>>
>> Correct, driven wheels get the best tyres.
If NC is lurking, you'll incure his wrath :-)
>>
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I'm completely with gb on this: better braking in the wet is the reason. The idea that part-worn tyres on the back will send unwary motorists up trees by sometimes getting the car a bit sideways is cobblers really, unless it's a wet bend and the rear tyres are completely bald...
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>> If NC is lurking, you'll incure his wrath :-)
Won't matter i'm a thick as two planks lorry driver so won't have a clue what he's on about..;)
By the way, if a car is designed properly as a motor car and not a shopping trolley, and has the correct wheels driven, the rears, new tyres still on the driven wheels, this time at the default one size fits all end.
edit...i think they ignore the wet braking aspect with the new tyres to rear only mantra AC.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sun 30 Dec 12 at 17:51
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HJ says "Best on the back" and he writes for The Torygraph, so it must be right.
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It seems obvious to me - you put the best tyres in the position that best suits the kind of driving you do and the conditions you are most likely to encounter.
If you like driving fast on wet winding hilly roads, then effective and stable braking will be more important. But if you live somewhere where simply getting the driving wheels to grip is the main problem, and once moving you drive steadily and moderately, put the best tyres on the driving wheels.
Broken springs - we've had this discussion before. Poor quality springs. Decent springs never break, merely sag after about 20 years. Unless you are offroading in a vehicle with cart springs of course.
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Isn't the "new tyres on the back" thing supposed to stop your car doing a 205 GTi?
Modern cars are designed to understeer regardless of which end is driven, with the proviso that all four tyres are identical. With grip biased to the rear, oversteer *might* be more likely. Oversteer = harder to recover from = A Bad Thing. HJ's target audience is generally not interested in the finer points of motoring, so his advice has to be one-size-fits-all.
pmh: When the Fiesta is taken out of the garage to be recovered, more body contact will be made with the front tyres surely? IMO tyres are pretty resilient things, I'm sure a bit of low-speed scrape-age won't do them any harm. High-speed kerb/pothole impact is where damage comes from. Bad luck on the double spring failure, although it's quite likely one of them failed a while ago near one end with no obvious symptoms and the other one finally gave out last week during a warming/cooling cycle. Don't fret about it, springs are almost a wear item these days.
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>> Modern cars are designed to understeer regardless of which end is driven, with the proviso
>> that all four tyres are identical. With grip biased to the rear, oversteer *might* be
>> more likely.
Surely understeer is more likely?
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 30 Dec 12 at 21:36
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At 11 years old (150k miles) my old mk1 Mondeo's front springs were both found to be fractured at MoT time. The cracks had occurred low down, virtually on the bottom 'cup', so luckily the suspension hadn't collapsed.
With hindsight, I had actually noticed one of the cracks whilst cleaning under the wheel arch, but assumed it was a mark left from the manufacturing process.
Our Focus has just passed its 10th birthday, so we're bracing ourselves for springs to feature on the next MoT bill.
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My 1998 120K+ Mondeo had a spring snap overnight while on my drive.
I reversed it out OK but could not drive forward. The spring had come in contact with the tyre so it was a case of drag it up onto a flatback and off for a new spring.
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My Dad, who started driving in 1923, used to walk around his cars when he parked up each night and would lift each corner of the car by its bumper to "ease the springs". No idea whether it did the springs any good or not but I can't remember him ever having a broken one.
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Seems to be a common denominator here... F O R D.
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I'm expecting a broken nsf on the old MB any moment, really whacked into a water filled pot hole the other night in the rain, how it didn't take the tyre out is a mystery as i saw it in the daylight next day nasty sharp ridged hole, i'm practised at missing them but got caught out this time.
note to self put it on full left lock and check the inside sidewall for lumps.
On the subject, why are there so many pot holes all of a sudden, we've not had a frost worth mentioning, some HA lads temporarily filling in some on the M6 yesterdays morning near Rugby in the NS lane, dodging the light traffic.
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>> On the subject, why are there so many pot holes all of a sudden, we've
>> not had a frost worth mentioning, some HA lads temporarily filling in some on the
>> M6 yesterdays morning near Rugby in the NS lane, dodging the light traffic.
>>
Total waste of time, our council patched a pothole at the end of our road a few days ago, it is breaking up already.
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It's all the rain I should think. My garden looks like the Somme. Roads must be sodden underneath the top dressing you'd imagine.
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>> Total waste of time, our council patched a pothole at the end of our road
>> a few days ago, it is breaking up already.
Its because they don't ever seal the things. In the old days a patch would be put down, and someone would go round the edges with hot tar to seal it the surrounding surface. Never happens now, water gets in and hydraulics it all out again like some giant shingle vomit.
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>>
>> >> Total waste of time, our council patched a pothole at the end of our road a few days ago, it is breaking up already.
>>
>> Its because they don't ever seal the things. In the old days a patch would be put down, and someone would go round the edges with hot tar to seal it the surrounding surface. Never happens now, water gets in and hydraulics it all out again like some giant shingle vomit.
>>
Wot Zero said - plus.... in the past tar was laid VERY hot, so any water laying in the pothole 'steamed' out, now the repair is done fairly cold, and not sealed.
First frost, and the repair pops out like a Champagne cork...
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>>Its because they don't ever seal the things.
IIRC they stopped putting a seal round the edge of repairs because it created a slippery surface that was dangerous to motorcyclists in the wet.
I never had any problem finding wet manhole covers to put me down.
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>> IIRC they stopped putting a seal round the edge of repairs because it created a
>> slippery surface that was dangerous to motorcyclists in the wet.
I prefer the slight worry of the slippery edging, to the major issue hitting, or swerving around a deep pothole.....
If you're riding to conditions, the edging shouldn't cause major loss of control.
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>>If you're riding to conditions, the edging shouldn't cause major loss of control.
Try seeing it at night, that's when I've found most of my wet manhole covers.
The authorities are also concerned about litigation.
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>> I'm expecting a broken nsf on the old MB any moment, really whacked into a
>> water filled pot hole the other night in the rain, how it didn't take the
>> tyre out is a mystery as i saw it in the daylight next day nasty
>> sharp ridged hole,
It wasn't in Northampton was it? I really smacked my LGE into one on Friday (28th). I was a bit surprised I didn't get a puncture (touch wood).
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No Duncan it was Welly, but then it could easily have been any Northants urban third world cart track, i'm beginning to remember one of the reason we bought the Hilux was to cope with our roads, my excellent MB indy has never fitted so much new suspension to the marque all his life as in the last 10 years.
I'll try to remember this when the old MB comes up for replacement, must get back to 60 and higher aspect tyres again.
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>> No Duncan it was Welly, but then it could easily have been any Northants urban
>> third world cart track, i'm beginning to remember one of the reason we bought the
>> Hilux was to cope with our roads, my excellent MB indy has never fitted so
>> much new suspension to the marque all his life as in the last 10 years.
>>
Having done the Christchurch - Northampton round trip a couple of weekends ago visiting relatives, I reckon the A43 between the M40 junction and Brackley is the crappiest, most pot holed section of trunk road I've ever traversed.
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>> I reckon the A43 between the M40 junction and Brackley is the crappiest, most pot
>> holed section of trunk road I've ever traversed.
>>
You're not kidding SC, if unfortunate enough to be piloting a loaded MAN carp the entire contents of all cubbies can be ejected if you hit some of the some of the bomb craters in the main tram lines, cab hits the bottom then the top of its travel horrible it is, wouldn't be surprised if i got a tug and breathalysed on that stretch trying to avoid the worst undulations.
Silverstone section really bad, as is the bit just south of the US communications dishes nr Aynho.
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I'll third all that, its a shocker, its a little better in the outside lane.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 31 Dec 12 at 21:45
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>>
>> Silverstone section really bad, as is the bit just south of the US communications dishes
>> nr Aynho.
>>
Yes, I recall a particularly bad one at the latter location; only upside was a Red Kite swooping low over the car, they seem to outnumber Kestrels and Buzzards in that area now.
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I think the Chiltern Kites have more or less met the Top Lodge Rockingham Forest kites.
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>> I reckon the A43 between the M40 junction and Brackley is the crappiest, most pot holed section of trunk road
The M1 from at least 22 down to Catthorpe at 19 has a good-sized pothole every hundred yards in one lane or another at the moment, it's appalling.
I reported a decent-sized pothole on the only access road to our estate a week before Christmas, the council were very quick in painting a circle around it and they cold-filled it on Christmas Eve morning. The repair material didn't last a day, I finally reported it again this morning after driving past a poor chap changing a freshly bent wheel just after it. This afternoon there's another circle painted around it, watch this space...
EDIT: The above posts on the A43 appeared while I was distracted, the biggest hole is northbound immediately after the Esso roundabout half a mile off the M40.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Mon 31 Dec 12 at 22:04
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>> >> With grip biased to the rear, oversteer *might* be more likely.
>> Surely understeer is more likely?
Duh, you are of course right Z. I meant the other way around, blame the wine. New tyres on front, back end more likely to come unstuck first...
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>> back end more likely to come unstuck first...
Just as one would want really. But car and tyre manufacturers, not to mention the deluded authorities, think otherwise. Prats.
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"My fathers 10 year old Fiesta was found this morning after a week of non-use with BOTH front springs having apparently snapped."
10 year old Fiesta? That's funny. My 10 year old Ka eats coil springs. (In fact, I reckon that they should be a service item.) I wonder if they could be related.
"Broken springs - we've had this discussion before. Poor quality springs."
It looks suspiciously like you might be right.
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Another C3 here for the list....SWM's broke a front spring with a bang that woke up the neighbours. 14K miles and springs like coiled fuse wire.
£30 and a bit of struggling with the compressors saw it back on the road in a couple of hours. Never trusted the damn thing, with it's stupid gearbox, after that. It had to go.
Ted
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>>>one spring at a time... I couldn't do that, now knowing the other one is going to go soon, in a way that could render the car uncontrollable.
Springs are something of a lottery on any vehicle. Sometimes folks have the replacement one break while the original on the other side never goes. Other times as you say the other side will follow on just months after the first.
At least with the C3 I've halved the risk compared with a month ago.
Having said that now we're all back to normal after Christmas I will either fit the Citroen catcher cups on both sides or replace the other spring in a couple of weeks.
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Ford Fiesta - Front springs - failure - Stuu
