At first sight this is one of those amusing "hoist by your own petard" stories.
tinyurl.com/cwmh6r9
But, assuming you believe his mitigation, would you have banned him, given his actual speed and the reasons he had for doing it?
Last edited by: Crankcase on Fri 7 Dec 12 at 08:24
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He is clearly a sanctimonious two faced git. Putting himself in the public eye to ensure re-election with his charlatan inspired speed campaign, while having 9 points on his license for repeatedly flouting said same regulations.
Years ban and disbarred from public office for being a lying sod as a minimum.
Apart from that I am feeling in a particularly compassionate mood today.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 7 Dec 12 at 08:30
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>> He is clearly a sanctimonious two faced git. Putting himself in the public eye to
>> ensure re-election with his charlatan inspired speed campaign, while having 9 points on his license
>> for repeatedly flouting said same regulations.
>>
>>
>> Years ban and disbarred from public office for being a lying sod as a minimum.
+1
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Yes
ot really an emergency as the elderly parent HAD BEEN found. Neighbour's wife used to do the same and the concern is when you don't know where they are. THe couple of MPH over would not have made any difference.
Four offences in three years (totting) for a councillor who campaigns agains speed means he is a hippocrite and deserved everything he got.
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I think the fact that he'd already racked up 9 points is enough for me to not be that sympathetic, never mind the fact he campaigned for more cameras in the first place!!
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Fair and just. If it had been a one off offence of grossly excessive speed on the M/way I'd have had some sympathy. The fact that he already had 9 points suggests a habitual offender.
I'm less persuaded by hypocrisy charge though. The campaign for cameras may well have been justified or at least enjoyed significant local support. Those caught in the village either by plod or the volunteer speedwatch are usually locals including those who tut at others driving.
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I love the irrelevance to the story of "was driving his BMW with personalised number plates "
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He wasn't banned for speeding to rescue his father - he was fined and given 3 points.
The fact that he already had 9 points when he wasn't rescuing his dad says it all - habitual speeder who can should buy a season ticket for the bus and a pair of stout shoes.
NO Sympathy from me.
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If he really feared for the safety of his father he should have been going faster than 35.
Pathetic defence from a habitual offender.
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>> I love the irrelevance to the story of "was driving his BMW with personalised number
>> plates "
>>
I think it's there as mitigation.
Everyone knows that BMWs with personal plates have hugely unreliable speedometers and a tendancy for the throttle to open on its own.
;-}
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>> I'm less persuaded by hypocrisy charge though.
I'm not.
People like him think they are safe drivers, the 40mph everywhere brigade. They think that 'speedsters' are dangerous on all occasions, yet it is often they who are inattentive and lacking in vision who are just as bad as someone zooming along inappropriately. Ironically someone zooming along, but in the right conditions, can easily be less dangerous.
It makes him a hypocrite or incredibly ignorant or even both.
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He pleaded guilty and acknowledged that he had to accept the judgement of the courts. His penalty and his attitude both seem fair enough to me. Chapeau.
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Ah a man with "do as I say, not as I do" principles.
A natural politician.
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Serves him right! Would have qualified for a seminar had he not been an habitual offender.
Many many the same position could provide some mitigation but would get no leniency. That's the issue with scameras, no discretion.
And to come up with such a pathetic excuse in the public arena - well? Would have been better keeping his head down and taking it on the chin. Not very bright or a touch of arrogance. Remind me again, what sort of car was he driving? :)
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A private plate BMW, with the fog lights on and inoperative direction indicators, for a guess
Last edited by: Meldrew on Fri 7 Dec 12 at 12:44
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Hoist by his own petard, in a way, and a sort of poetic justice.
But am I alone in thinking that a driving ban, even a very short one, for 35 in a 30 is a total outrage? Basically a spat about pathetic mimsing levels?
Fullchat says he had been 'an habitual offender'. I don't call that an offence and I can't believe anyone sane who has driven much would see it as an offence. But perhaps the other offences were all for ploughing into bus queues and hurtling through pedestrian precincts at 70. In fact it's surprising the reckless fool was still at large.
35 in a 30 indeed... Tchah!
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>> But am I alone in thinking that a driving ban, even a very short one,
>> for 35 in a 30 is a total outrage? Basically a spat about pathetic mimsing
>> levels?
He wasn't banned for thirty five in a thirty, thats a three pointer. Unfortunately I don't think we know what the other nine were for. Previous speeding or was he like Z and got housey at one go?
Allowing for speedo innacuracy that's going to have looked like 40 so not realy an excuse.
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Not in mine, Bromp, or in anything I've driven in the last ten years. Speedos overread from about 50 upwards, but 30 reads 30 and 40 reads 40. (And in the LEC, 69 reads 70.)
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>> ............ but 30 reads 30 and 40 reads 40.
I've driven past speed indicating thingies at both 30 mph and 40 mph, and on both occasions the thingy indicated 3 mph less than what my speedometer did.
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>> Not in mine, Bromp, or in anything I've driven in the last ten years. Speedos
>> overread from about 50 upwards, but 30 reads 30 and 40 reads 40. (And in
>> the LEC, 69 reads 70.)
The lancer is about 8% fast, the Altea and the VW before it both exactly 10% fast.
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Consistently, Z? I pass one of those digital speed things in a 30 zone on my way to work, and both cars' speedos agree with it precisely. But in the Volvo (LEC is automatic so possibly not a valid comparison) the engine speed at an indicated 60 will be less than double the revs at an indicated 30 in the same gear, so the error is not linear. The old Verso was just the same.
The LEC is different anyway - a timed 10km on a French motorway at a CC'd 115 km/h gave a true speed of 114 km/h.
This non-linearity makes sense to me. Given that the speedo is now as accurate as the makers want it to be, a small overread at the upper end means that drivers will reach their psychological limit sooner, which may have a small safety benefit; but it's important that they know exactly where they are at 30 which is, to my mind, the limit that really matters. (Except in Shiplake - raspberry to OCC.)
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>> Consistently, Z? I pass one of those digital speed things in a 30 zone on
>> my way to work, and both cars' speedos agree with it precisely.
Yer, consistently, as checked by GPS. I dont think those digital speed things are accurate.
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>> I dont think those digital speed things are accurate.
Apart from being an insult and visual pollution, those automatic flashing SLOW DOWN 30 (or whatever) signals are often wildly inaccurate. I know at least three that flash when one is well below the limit.
My dream is to capture one in the dead of night with a petrol-powered angle grinder and mount it on a wall at home, wired up, as a bit of modern art. But I'm too slow on my pins and too wimpish these days. Thirty or forty years ago might have given it a try if I could have found another kamikaze (even a young bloke would have trouble doing it briskly without help).
Sigh.
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Agreed, AC, those things are crude and awful, but the sort I have in mind gives a digital readout of speed and my feeling is it's much more accurate - or it would serve little purpose.
One day I'll find an opportunity to do a timed 30 mph run like the 71 mph one we did in France, although I'm not sure where I safely could.
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The feeling I have about the ones around me, that give a digital speed, tend to over-read but are within the same level of accuracy as one's car speedo.
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We have several of these speed indicators in my area, most are reasonably accurate but one is way out (15 mph over).
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>> One day I'll find an opportunity to do a timed 30 mph run like the
>> 71 mph one we did in France, although I'm not sure where I safely could.
Whats wrong with using the sat nav? Accurate as long as its straight
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Based on what? A satnav is hardly a scientific instrument; it's as accurate as its maker chooses to make it, so it's equally meaningless without calibration - more so because there are no Construction and Use Regulations to prescribe its accuracy. Besides, I haven't got one.
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>> Based on what? A satnav is hardly a scientific instrument; it's as accurate as its
>> maker chooses to make it, so it's equally meaningless without calibration - more so because
>> there are no Construction and Use Regulations to prescribe its accuracy. Besides, I haven't got
>> one.
fair enough, intractable logic, your speedo is accurate because you say so. Cant argue with that. Carry on.
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>> like Z and got housey at one go?
Funnily enough when I was running around with 9 up on my license, the last thing I did was speed.
Now does that make me clever or him stupid? I think I know the answer.
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>> Now does that make me clever or him stupid? I think I know the answer.
>>
>>
So do I, stupid to get nine. :-)
You could always.......
www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Perthshire/article/26323/police-hunt-lout-who-set-fire-to-a9-speed-camera-near-dunkeld-in-act-of-mindless-vandalism.html
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 7 Dec 12 at 16:18
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To be fair to Z, from what I remember of the incident 9 seemed a bit harsh at the time.
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I though that too. Dont forget the 400 quid fine.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 7 Dec 12 at 16:31
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Harrumph... I hadn't noticed that the councillor already had nine points, so my earlier post is a bit Indignant of Tunbridge Wells. I hope we will get a run-down of the offences involved.
If they were all for doing a couple of mph over the limit I still think a ban is unjust, totting-up or no (although it would make him a bit of a hypocrite all right). Similarly if they were points for clipping the corner of a bus lane or parking quite safely on quadruple yellow lines with an exclamation mark and skull and crossbones painted on the road in red. Hoist by his own petard though because councils make these rules, bad cess to the smelly brutes.
The special pleading about the ancient parents may well be perfectly honest.
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>> The special pleading about the ancient parents may well be perfectly honest.
....and on the other hand may well be a load of cobblers.
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AC,
He got a ban for keeping on doing it.
At what point will this fool realise? Surely after the 3rd one he must have thought 'better be careful then'.
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Had he been doing insignificant speeding offences repeatedly and getting nicked for it? If so then I suppose you are right Wp.
Cameras are awful though. Traffic coppers can tell the difference between dangerous speeding and just getting a competent move on (even if they sometimes pretend they can't).
:o}
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>> AC,
>>
>> He got a ban for keeping on doing it.
>>
>> At what point will this fool realise? Surely after the 3rd one he must have
>> thought 'better be careful then'.
I have no problem with people who speed, even repeatedly. However people who get CAUGHT doing it 4 times in the space of three years, are clearly not paying attention and are dangerous, careless or stupid. Maybe all three.
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>> AC,
>>
>> He got a ban for keeping on doing it.
>>
>> At what point will this fool realise? Surely after the 3rd one he must have
>> thought 'better be careful then'.
>>
You'd have thought so? Especially with him being a carer and all. I often wonder that about people who plead special circumstances and avoid bans, it's so special that they never seem to remember about it when speeding about (and getting caught). I'm not perfect but it's not that difficult to stick to the limits if you really have/should/need to.
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>> I'm not perfect
>> but it's not that difficult to stick to the limits if you really have/should/need to.
It is for some people, because they are hopelessly unaware of what is going on around them. They have yet to achieve (and probably/possibly never will) a level of knowledge on the subject matter to be able to properly comply.
Frightening really.
At least my hopeless lack of knowledge re computers won't kill people or get me a driving ban.
What is particularly irksome though, is those that fit the above category and think that anyone who overtakes them... or drives at 70mph on a 60 mph road....etc...is automatically a bad/dangerous driver. Yet it is THEM that really need to look in the mirror. They won't of course, because they don't know.
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Bring back the days when it was either 30 mph or unlimited. The way things are going we'll all eventually be limited to walking pace.
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>> eventually be limited to walking pace.
Not being funny Gastropod, but isn't 'walking pace' a bit quick for such as yourself?
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>> >> eventually be limited to walking pace.
>>
>> Not being funny Gastropod, but isn't 'walking pace' a bit quick for such as yourself?
I've had artificial legs fitted and my undercarriage is now a bit like that of a centipede.
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Fair enough.
He would have been shown in a better light of he had said as little as possible rather than trying to mitigate which just sounds like saying he's a special case - and ignores the fact that it's the preceding 9 points that are the cause of the disqual.
I've always thought though that a 6 month ban for a totter is usually far too much in terms of severity and impact on the individual. About 5 years ago a pal of mine got one - four speeding offences, every one 35-38 in rural 30 limit. WP might say he is an inattentive menace, but his insurance record says otherwise - he is a typical OK driver who follows the spirit of sensible compliance but has been caught more times than most.
Public transport was an impractical solution. His wife doesn't drive. He could easily have lost his job if I and others hadn't taken him to work and back for 6 months. To his credit he remained philosophical; many would have held the rules in contempt after that.
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>> WP might say he is an inattentive menace, but his insurance record says
>> otherwise -
That could easily mean he's been lucky.
To his credit he remained philosophical; many would have held the rules in contempt
>> after that.
How about him doing something about HIS problem, e.g. taking an advanced driving course.
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If you want to obey the speed limit it's not really that difficult.
If you feel certain limits are inappropriate - I regard the 40 on the A4500 from the Northampton ring road to Sandy Lane tinyurl.com/bsdrtzv (cones are temporary) in that light - you can ignore at your own risk.
But if there's a fixed speed camera you're being exceptionally stupid to miss/ignore. If it's a site where the mobile camera lurks, and this is, then you need to sharpen observation.
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>> But if there's a fixed speed camera you're being exceptionally stupid to miss/ignore.
I think that comes under the heading of Famous Last Words, and the evidence suggests that whether it's stupid or not, it isn't exceptional.
Better watch out Bromp!
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>> Better watch out Bromp!
I'll retract exceptionally stupid (except for in one's home area) and insert lacking in observation.
I was flashed by the then fixed cam in Harlestone around 2003. I saw the 40 on the main road missed the 30 for the village. Fortunately it was a bank holiday and the film had been used up.
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>> I think that comes under the heading of Famous Last Words, and the evidence suggests
>> that whether it's stupid or not, it isn't exceptional.
I have repeatedly said, that if I get flashed by a camera over the speed, i shall own up on here to be universally castigated. Until that day arrives anyone else who gets caught by a camera is useless spanner. And to get caught 4 times in three years deserves scathing abuse of the highest order, and not the slightest shred of sympathy or understanding.
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Caught about 20 yrs ago by a hairdryer (sod was hiding behind a bush - no fair!), and 7 years ago by a laser-van.
Never been flashed by a camera - the big luminous stripey patch on the back kind of gives them away.
Amusingly in a few bits of Edinburgh they've put a combination of speed-camera and red-light camera on some junctions just to catch the heroes boosting through on amber.
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>> just to catch the heroes boosting through on amber.
God what a pain. What about red? Is that all right?
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>> God what a pain. What about red? Is that all right?
>>
>>
The red bit may be covered by the "red-light" in "combination of speed-camera and red-light camera". :-)
If you think the cameras are sneaky try the Edinburgh parking Stasi.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 8 Dec 12 at 10:26
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>> Never been flashed by a camera - the big luminous stripey patch on the back
>> kind of gives them away.
There's no big luminous stripey patch on the nearest speed camera to where we live. The box is just plain yellow. In fact all the boxes I've ever seen have been just plain yellow.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sat 8 Dec 12 at 10:57
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>>The box is just plain yellow. In fact all the boxes I've ever seen have been just plain yellow.
Maybe it's "speedcam tartan" up here.
www.heraldscotland.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/400xY/speedcamerapic.jpg
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>> >>The box is just plain yellow. In fact all the boxes I've ever seen have > been just plain yellow.
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>> Maybe it's "speedcam tartan" up here.
>>
>> www.heraldscotland.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/400xY/speedcamerapic.jpg
>>
>>
That seems to be jvery very few images on Google
But Oxfordshire seems to have had one ( some) with stripes on
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-11676603
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>> If you want to obey the speed limit it's not really that difficult.
It is if you don't know what the limit is. Many, many people bimble about (the 40mph everywhere brigade) at a steady lowish speed. They are not aware enough to know what bit of road has what speed limit.
That is why they get caught. A, lack of observation of the cameras and B, no idea what the limit is anyway.
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>>It is if you don't know what the limit is
Then they should be nailed to the wall for being terminally stupid.
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It can be slightly confusing away from one's home area. Roads with street-lights but small repeater signs saying 40, dual carriageways with a 40 limit and so on. Things are not always as they appear.
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"It can be slightly confusing away from one's home area."
Not really
"Roads with street-lights but small repeater signs saying 40, "
Then you've driven past a great big sign with 40 on it
"dual carriageways with a 40 limit"
The you've driven past a great big sign with 40 on it
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My HGV instructor would often ask "What was the last sign we passed" If you did not know it was a 20p fine for the coffee fund. (It was a long time ago).
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Must have had the same one as me ON, but he used to stop the lorry and make you walk back and find out if you didn't know.
I still read every sign I see.....Eggs for Sale, Carol service Sun 12th 11am but it's worth it, I have never missed the one that says Low Bridge Ahead!
Pat
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I was thinking those things CGN. What's confusing about it? The only problem is taking the increasing number of absurdly low speed limits seriously enough not to get into trouble.
My worst risk-taking behaviour is running red lights. It got me a criminal record when I was young and I've been done for it (fixed penalty) more recently. Last weekend my own senility, many random changes to the London road system, lane closures, temporary 4-way traffic lights and millions of Surrey carphounds heading home after their christmas shopping made me take two hours to get from Gray's Inn Road to the A3 where to my great relief normal South East mimsing took over. I ran several red lights in the process and am still trembling in my boots.
What's that ugly looking envelope from some unknown outer suburb of the Great Wen? I really really don't want to know. Chuck it out quick.
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>> I ran several red lights in the
>> process and am still trembling in my boots.
You would not get away with that on my patch, see my 10:24 this morning post above.
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Took a sharp bend in Edinburgh with a fair amount of body roll and perhaps a discreet scream of rubber in my garish lime-green Dyane once, only to be flagged down by a copper on foot (managed a fairly dignified halt). Herself opened the nearside sliding window and the copper bawled furiously at me across her: 'There's a speed limit!'
I said frightfully sorry, Citroen suspension, not really going fast, all under control, yes will watch it in future, etc etc, but herself was utterly traumatised by what she had experienced as a totally incoherent animal roar into her ear. Being unused to Caledonian phonemes, she hadn't understood a single word the copper had said, although she is very bright, not easily fazed and no slouch with language. Funny old world eh?
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Hard hearted or fair enough? - Zero
