I hired a car for work yesterday, booking Skoda Octavia size and I expecting to get a Nissan Note or something of that ilk. It was something of a pleasant surprise to be handed the keys to a newish Merc C200 CDI saloon, in basic SE spec with Mercedes' clever 7 speed autobox. In fact I was so pleased, I was grinning like a Cheshire cat. I certainly felt smug having such a thing parked outside my house all night - take that you Joneses!
I ended up doing the best part of 300 miles of motorway cruising and London crawl with it yesterday, probably enough to get a good feel for the car. So, I'll inflict my thoughts upon you, if I may.
Firstly, this is one nicely adorned car. The appearance is spot on. Classy, conservative, timeless. Mercedes through and through. The interior materials are well chosen, everything is high quality; nice to look it and touch. Better than previous generation Mercs I thought. Aside from that I'm not sure why the electric seat had to move upwards at the same time as forwards? Do they not have people of normal height but shorter legs in Germany?
Looking back at older Mercs, one thing is still very much an aberration I'd have hoped that they'd moved on from by now - the switch gear. Why try to put all the controls on one stalk? In trying to wash the windscreen, I was determinedly flashing the car in front. Thankfully, being in a Merc, they probably took me for an arrogant so-and-so and ignored my frantic full beam display. After no more than a brief few hours, I finally figured out that I had to push the damn stalk half way into the column to get the desired effect.
However, I had no problems with the unusual foot operated "hand" brake, and quite liked it too. It probably helped that I was driving the auto mind. I imagine there's a good reason why there's so few manual versions around.
The engine, surprisingly, was a massive disappointment. I know it's the detuned version of the 2143cc 4 pot (around 134bhp, or so I hear) but having more torque than my 2.0 TDCI Mondeo, I expected a decent amount of go in it. It just wasn't there. I suspect the autobox with its 7 speeds was the main problem. The engine always seemed to be revving too low to be responsive. A decent kick of the right heel (even in sports mode) was required to find a useful gear and get moving. It wasn't just laggardly either, it was rather lacking in refinement, even at motorway speeds. Perhaps the rest of the car being so impressively quiet was exaggerating the engine noise? I don't know, but I couldn't help but compare it unfavourably to my Mondeo again.
The flip side of the low-revving engine was excellent fuel economy. The computer claimed an impressive 53mpg, even with about an hour of stop-start traffic around Heathrow and a couple of cold starts in freezing conditions. On brimming it, I calculated about 52mpg, close enough to call it accurate.
A major minus point for me was that the big Merc completely lacked any driver appeal. The steering was heavy but vague, the suspension was wallowing, but failed to absorb bumps completely and the pedal set-up made me feel like I was fighting the car, not working with it. The floor hinged accelerator and high set pedals appeared to be laid out for much bigger feet than my average sized 9s.
Overall I felt that I probably couldn't live with this car on an everyday basis. Aside from the fabulously well put together interior and parsimonious fuel consumption, my Mondeo trumped the E200 in every single way. But somehow, perhaps because of the power of brand and marketing, I still lusted after that 3-pointed star and was decidedly sad to see it go.
Maybe with a more powerful engine and sportier suspension, it could be something I could take a shine too. Or maybe not, when you start to look at the asking prices...
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That's interesting because a couple of months back when we thought we'd be ordering another lease for Christmas delivery Ling's offers on the C-Class 2.2 diesels seemed so tempting being just a few pounds a month more than other "lesser" cars we were considering.
I see just now she can do the C-Class 2.2 CDi BlueEFFICIENCY 16v Executive SE for £50/mth less than a Mondeo 2.0 diesel Titanium.
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Strange as it might seem, I'd say the C-class is too small to be compared to the Mondeo.
Mondeo estate and E-class estate are around the same dimensions, although the E-class is quite a bit heavier.
The engine and gearbox combo might well work better in the lighter C-Class I reckon, especially if it was the more powerful 2.2 diesel.
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>> I'll inflict my thoughts upon you, if I may.
>>
Inflict! Inflict! I love reading these mini-reports! :-)
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>> Overall I felt that I probably couldn't live with this car on an everyday basis.
>> Aside from the fabulously well put together interior and parsimonious fuel consumption, my Mondeo trumped
>> the E200 in every single way. But somehow, perhaps because of the power of brand
>> and marketing, I still lusted after that 3-pointed star and was decidedly sad to see
>> it go.
>>
I know what you mean. I think that it might be an echo of how I/you felt in the past.
When I was a nipper, you didn't think about image and snobbery. You just viewed a Merc as a great car, and thought that it would be great to be able to afford one someday. I don't have many books about cars, but they are nearly all about Mercedes-Benz.
It's difficult to adjust to the fact that some other manufacturers have probably caught up with(or surpassed) Mercs now.
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I'm glad you enjoyed it Londoner. :)
Things certainly have moved on against Mercedes. I wouldn't dream of comparing a Sierra with the legendary W124, that's for sure. And I thought quite highly of Sierra too.
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I enjoyed it too - and even after seven months and close to 9,000 miles with an E, I entirely agree about the single stalk. And yours was a saloon; the estate has an extra collar for the rear wiper, and no quick way to get a single wipe after driving through a puddle.
I agree about the occasionally sluggish response too, although mine is a 220 with more like 170hp. It's not slow - it can be respectably quick when required - but it often feels unprepared for rapid action. Keeping the gearbox in S mode on minor roads and in town helps, but the main problem is that second and third (of five in mine) are set too high and too easily drop the engine out of its boost band.
But the E is too big to be a sports car anyway. It's a great way of covering long distances with bodies aboard; everyone's comfortable and the quietness makes it much less fatiguing than anything else we've had.
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>> But the E is too big to be a sports car anyway. It's a great
>> way of covering long distances with bodies aboard; everyone's comfortable and the quietness makes it
>> much less fatiguing than anything else we've had.
>>
Yes, totally agree. For listing all its faults I wasn't strong enough in extolling that virtue. The wind and road noise were non-existent, seat comfort was very good and the radio aurally pleasing too. Motorways were dispatched with something like disdain. "Only 200 miles, pah, give me more!"
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Am I missing why this thread says E-Class W212? Seems to be about a C-Class.
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>> Am I missing why this thread says E-Class W212? Seems to be about a C-Class.
>>
Sorry, this is what I happens when I try to type when the cat has her backside draped across the keyboard.
I did indeed mean the E200 CDI.
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>>when the cat has her backside draped across the keyboard<<
:)
See, I do read every thread and that made me smile!
Pat
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>> >>when the cat has her backside draped across the keyboard<<
>>
>> :)
>>
>> See, I do read every thread and that made me smile!
It made me think: "Toxoplasmosis". And: "Worms".
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Don't worry, I worm myself regularly. :)
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>>
>> I did indeed mean the E200 CDI.
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I didnt realise they did an E200 CDI. I think an E220 CDI is around 180 bhp, the same as the old E270 CDI, which was more than adequate. I'm guessing an E200 CDI is around 150 bhp though, which doesn't seem much for shifting 1.8 tonnes of car...
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>> I'm guessing an E200 CDI is around 150 bhp though, which doesn't seem much for shifting 1.8 tonnes of car...
It's worse than that, according to M-B website, just 136bhp.
So that's about the same amount of power as my 2.0 TDCI Mondeo, and only 100 kgs more.
And yet, the difference in usable performance between the two was huge.
I put it down to my Mondeo having a 6 speed autobox and the Merc being equipped with a 7 speed jobbie. Sometimes the revs were barely above the 1000 mark in the E200.
But then the Merc did give around 20-25% better fuel economy than the Mondeo, which ain't bad.
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>> I enjoyed it too - and even after seven months and close to 9,000 miles
>> with an E, I entirely agree about the single stalk. And yours was a saloon;
>> the estate has an extra collar for the rear wiper, and no quick way to
>> get a single wipe after driving through a puddle.
I leave the auto wipers on most of the time, which deals with the puddle issue most of the time. If not a 'short' press n the stalk towards the steering column wipes the screen; a longer one gives you wash wipe
>> But the E is too big to be a sports car anyway. It's a great
>> way of covering long distances with bodies aboard; everyone's comfortable and the quietness makes it
>> much less fatiguing than anything else we've had.
>>
Agreed, as a mile muncher not much beats its for the price I don't think, and nothing flusters iit at all. It's definitely no sports car, but if you push it it handles pretty neatly I think, and it's capable of swift progress too :-)
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I was thinking of the rear wiper for puddles, Peter. I agree, the auto front wipers work well - so well, in fact, that I think I've only once turned the switch beyond the second - - - setting. And there's always the option of an ad lib. single wipe without changing the setting, which I do find useful. But it would still be easier to use if it was on its own stalk on the right-hand side.
Incidentally - and straying from OB's thread because his car didn't have one - I can't work out the wiping pattern of the rear wiper. It's not a simple timed intermittent like most I've had; sometimes it gives two wipes in quick succession, and as far as I can tell it isn't driven by the auto sensor for the windscreen. Any clues?
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Ah OK, I see. Yes, the rear wipe is either on (twist the collar up) or wash-wipe if twisted the other way. Can't say I've noticed the pattern of the rear wiper action - I'll be looking out for it from now on though. It's possible a bit of cost cutting, sorry, de-contenting, from the S211 to the S212 though and that mine doesn't do it. A few things have gone missing; te second sun visor and the dash indicator of unsecured rear seats being the most irritating to me!
Last edited by: PeterS on Thu 6 Dec 12 at 08:10
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>> I entirely agree about the single stalk
Thirded. I had an A class on hire in Sweden a while ago. The conditions were dark and very foggy when I picked up the car. It had fog lamps. It had a warning lamp for fog lamps.
I never did figure out how to turn the things on, despite spending 20 minutes in a service area poking and prodding the humungostalk's various excrescences.
There were no other switches in the thing, so the control must have been on there somewhere. First and only time a car's switchgear has ever defeated me.
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It's a pull, TC. Not of the stalk but of the master switch. One click for front, two for rear.
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>> It's a pull, TC. Not of the stalk but of the master switch. One click
>> for front, two for rear.
>>
While that used to be the case the later cars have a seperate button near the headlight switch. I the cae of mine I only have a rear fog light switch as, apparently, the ILS (intelligent lighting system!!) adapts the headlight beam when the rear fog light is switched on
tinyurl.com/d6dobsu
Peter
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The discussion on the fog lights was for the A-Class. Things will be different on an E-Class. And the A-Class has been replaced and so the comment might not be applicable to that car now either.
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Yes, I noticed it was an A class in the Q, but thought it might be similar. Our Up has the same basic headlight switch layout as the A4, which itself is the same s the A8. Different finish, but the same basic switch
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Aha!
I'd already had fun with the master switch. Being Swedish spec, the headlamps were on regardless of switch position. Off, auto, sides and on were interchangeable.
A rather cunning "feature" was that the main beams only worked at "on". Took me a while to figure that one out too.
I reckon if you sat down with the task of producing the light switch arrangement most likely to fox hire drivers you couldn't do a better job than Merc already have.
I did briefly curse Hertz for failing to provide a manual, but only briefly as I quickly realised that my Swedish wouldn't have been up to reading it anyway.
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>> Why try to put all the controls on one stalk?
I also never understood that. Probably to cut cost of one more stalk.
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Yeah, Movi, that'll be it. Just think of all those overpriced Kias and Daewoos with their fancy-schmantzy twin stalks.
};---)
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"Probably to cut cost of one more stalk."
I think the latest MBs have 2 stalks.
Personally found the one stalk easy to use esp since auto wipers are very good. Also like MB cruise stalk as pretty intuitive to work. Worst, I find are those that have indicator/headlamp flasher stalk and cruise stalk close together (often hidden by steering wheel) with a pull to switch off cruise (Audi? Lexus - can't remember). A few times have been embarrassed to find I was pulling the headlamp flasher instead of cruise lever and hence, instead of switching off cruise as I came up behind someone, I was flashing them! How does one apologise for that?
Mind you, they might just have thought I was a typical Audi driver!! ;-)
P
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"Kias and Daewoos with their fancy-schmantzy twin stalks". And other like older Suzukis and Isuzus.
Which have stalks on opposite sides to European cars. Can't count number of times I have tried to apply screen wash with indicator stalk/flasher or indicated with windscreen wipers! Usually realise without any consequences for other road users.
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And others like older Suzukis and Isuzus...
...and just about every modern European or Japanese car that isn't a Mercedes - although I've always suspected the indicator stalk in a BMW must be a expensive option, presumably in a package with the foglight off switch.
};---)
Actually, rather than only one stalk, my E has three: there's the little one at ten o'clock for the cruise control and speed limiter - less intuitive that the Volvo's buttons but easy enough, although with no option to disable it altogether; and an even smaller one at eightish for the - wait for it - electric steering wheel adjuster. And still on the right-hand side, precisely nothing.
And that wash-wipe button on the end of the megastalk requires careful handling: catch it slightly wrong and you'll set off the indicators' lane-change function, and give three flashes with no option to cancel. It's the only time I ever use that feature.
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An electric steering wheel adjuster; what an odd option to choose! I assume it comes with memory seats or some such option? At least I do have a stalk on the right, albeit for the column shift gear change that mine has. Was slightly concerned that's never get on with a column shift; in fact t quickly became second nature and the traditional centre shift on the courtesy car seemed very clunkyin comparison!
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Memory seat, singular. There's a seat-shaped set of buttons on the driver's door, including one for the head restraint - which in most cars is well-nigh impossible to set once you're in the seat. The memory takes all the irritation out of sharing a car; each of us can get the seat, wheel and mirrors back where we like them straight away. It was the only one of the cars we looked at that had this feature, and it's great.
As a (dubious) bonus, when I remove the key, the electric adjuster hoists the wheel, which I like to set quite low, up and out of the way of my (presumably) overweight and/or arthritic legs, so I can get out more easily; hardly essential but a good show-off trick. Makes up for this 'second sun visor' that I'm not convinced it has.
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>> Makes up for this 'second sun visor' that I'm not convinced
>> it has.
>>
Memory seat (s) always seem like a good idea, but they're hideously expensive as an option! Sounds like yours was a good find!
Re the second sun visor, my '04 E270 CDI had two for the driver (and possibly for the front passenger too, I can't remember). They were one on top of another, and so if you'd pulled the first one out to cover the side window there was another underneath that you could fold down in front of the windscreen. Sounds pointless I know, but when it was useful it was very useful, if that makes sense! I think you'd notice if you had them - mine was avantgarde spec. Perhaps they were a victim of cost cutting when the S/W 211 was facelifted?
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No they weren't - I found mine this morning! I'd seen them before, of course, but had assumed they were clips to store documents, the way American drivers like to do. Your comment prompted me to have a fiddle and yes, with the main visor swung out of the way, the little flap can come down in front of me. Perfect with sun alternately ahead and to my right as the M4 snakes past Slough. Love it!
I think the back seat warning is still there too - I have a dim memory of triggering it early on. There's certainly a beep that confirms the seat is latched, so I imagine that uses the same sensor.
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Yes, that back seat warning is still there. The one in that hire car didn't mind when my colleagues briefcase was on it, and then complained vigorously when he removed it!
Obviously I doubt that's how it's intended to work. :)
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Pleased you found it! It's the little touches that makes these cars so easy to ove with I think, and a shame that some of the features have been lost from newer models. On the other hand I expect they've been usurped by other things that I'll miss in 3/4 years time when I next change the car!!
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Mercedes Benz E-Class W212 - One of those German saloon car thingies - Fenlander
