Are you aware the forthcoming changes to the UK driving licence put three wheelers in the motor bike category? (Existing drivers are grandfathered - ie keep existing rights).
This means for new drivers, they would have to go through the tiered motorbike access route to be able to drive their parent�s Morgan, Reliant (Del boys' Reliant van included) and several other vintage types as well as the new Morgan three wheeler.
This puts a new minimum driving age of 21 for those taking the tiered access route and 24 for those taking the direct access route. As opposed to the unchanged age of 17 for cars that they were expecting.
My 1930 Morgan in theory has a maximum speed of 80mph and is about the fastest standard type. I seriously dispute a bike licence, however good, qualifies one to drive what is really a car with one fewer wheel.
The new situations regulations are summed up here:
www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/motoring/driver-licensing/information-on-vehicles-you-can-drive/motorcycles_-cars-and-other-vehicles-you-can-ride-or-drive-and-minimum-ages.htm
True it's the Northern Ireland version, but I think the rules across the UK are the same and the English web site only shows the current rules. The pages showing the changes having bitten the dust in the recent relaunch of many goverment pages.
A suitable outcome would be for car bodied three wheelers (the definition exists in construction and use regulation) to be declared to be cars , but it is way past any consultations.
Another way would be to give new class B (car) licence holders the same class A limited to trikes that will appear on exist class B licence holders licences when they renew. That however I'd have thought contrary to the spirit of the third European Driving Licence directive that started all this.
link updated - Webmaster
Last edited by: Webmaster on Thu 30 Apr 15 at 21:40
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Change for changes sake. The only three wheelers available now are either very expensive Morgans or cherished classics like the Reliant. The days when people like myself bought a Reliant to run on a bike licence as a quick way into motoring are long gone. They're just solving a problem that doesn't exist.
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>>cherished classics like the Reliant.
Hmmmm.
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>> >>cherished classics like the Reliant.
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>> Hmmmm.
The dreaded plastic pig!
When I was in the HP business yonks ago we had a dealer account who sold loads of those things.
Most were on the book and the punters were the salt of the earth about keeping their payments up.
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.......so is swapping an EU licence for a UK one, providing you passed your test in the UK.
I've just done that and additionally it runs for three years: my Spanish one was due for renewal mid 2013.
At my age, when renewing a DL in Spain a chargeable (at around 50 euros last time) doctors stickyfoot is needed, plus the use of a Gestor to do the paperwork (so much easier than DIY) and issue a note for the Guardia Civil Trafico that one's licence is in the long drawn out (6 weeks at least) process. With the obligatory photos, renewing it was certainly in excess of a hundred euros.
Good gracious - this posting got well out of sync!
Last edited by: Roger on Wed 7 Nov 12 at 19:44
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You can build a Rover V8 bike style trike and drive it on a car licence. That is the sort of vehicle that some I've talked to think was being meant.
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>> You can build a Rover V8 bike style trike and drive it
By 'drive' you mean 'balance' presumably :)
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"The days when people like myself bought a Reliant to run on a bike licence as a quick way into motoring are long gone."
My case was not quite the same - I bought a three-wheeler (a Messerschmitt 197cc - oh yes!), which under the rules at the time I could drive unaccompanied on a provisional licence, but, because it had a reverse gear, when I passed my test I could drive a car.
How times have changed! The only driving lesson I ever had was from a school friend whose parents had insisted on a course of "proper" driving lessons. There was no theory test and when it came to the "actual" test, the examiner, who apparently had never been in a bubble car before, seemed (when I looked in the mirror) to be more interested in the interior of the vehicle than in my driving. At the age of 17 I passed first time and shortly afterwards was driving my father's 2.4 Jaguar. Later I was informally cautioned by the police for exceeding the speed limit on the A1.
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Isn't there a crucial difference in handling characteristics depending on whether the single wheel is at the front or back?
Which of those, if either, is appropriately aligned with the skills required to ride a motorbike?
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Perhaps if all three wheels were in line...?
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>> Perhaps if all three wheels were in line...?
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You mean like this?
youtu.be/W7DC4aJEBiA
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>> Isn't there a crucial difference in handling characteristics depending on whether the single wheel is
>> at the front or back?
And there is the crux. What numbskull though it even a remotely good idea to put the engine over a single front wheel which had to do the steering and then drive it from the back. Like witches they should all be burned.
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Laurie Bond designed many things, I think his crowning glory was the 875. A de-tuned Imp engine in the back and a tricksy steering made it very stable. It was so good Reliant bought the company and killed it off.
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Apparently quite brisk, the 875. Was the Imp engine in the rear? I think you'd have to be very brave to press on in of those! IIRC, the Villiers- engined Bond 3-wheelers which Zero perhaps has in mind, had front engine driving one rear wheel by chain...
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My Dad had a Bond, for the motorbike licence reason described above. No reverse gear, he used to parallel park by driving nose in, then getting out of the car and lifting it up by the rear end and swinging it in to place.
After that, when he was obviously getting far flusher, he upgraded to a Reliant Regal. With reverse gear. Proper posh.
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>> Apparently quite brisk, the 875.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_875#Specification_and_performance
Gives 0-60 of 16s, which I think wasn't bad for the time (mid-60s)?
The road test quote states 22.5s, still "usefully ahead of the contemporary 850 cc Morris Mini on maximum speed and acceleration".
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My first dip into the world of cars from bikes was a Bond F Type.
This, like all similar Bonds, had the Villiers 2 stroke engine at the front. The engine was mounted above the front wheel, which it drove by a chain. The whole wheel/suspension/engine/gearbox assembly turned side to side with the steering wheel, which was set vertically with a column change gear lever.
It also had a kick starter under the bonnet although it did have electric start as well.
Items of essential equipment, for me, were a broom handle and a couple of packs of steel wool. The latter was thrust up the exhaust pipe by the former when the old stuff had been spat out onto the queens highway.
I soon discovered that the fibreglass roof would come off, although it was too big to carry with you.
Look at me girls...I've got a convertible !
Ted
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I thought I'd post a link which I've just found: tinyurl.com/cqcofb9
PS: as Ted says the early Bond mini-car is FWD. Must have been thinking of chain drive Fraser Nash:)
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Link shows Lawrie Bond with one of his products, outside the Townley Arms in Longridge. tinyurl.com/bcyabma
Last edited by: NIL on Tue 6 Nov 12 at 14:57
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IIRC he also designed the Berkely. That was a very pretty car for its time. Front engine, FWD to both its front wheels. Good enough for Zeddo?
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Used to work in Preston, home of the said three-wheeler. Once drove one and was convinced it would turn over if I cornered too quickly...:-)
Perhaps some will remember this incident?
www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-4639516.html
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>> have to be very brave to press on in of those! IIRC, the Villiers- engined
>> Bond 3-wheelers which Zero perhaps has in mind, had front engine driving one rear wheel
>> by chain...
No he also had every three wheel nonsense by Reliant in mind as well.
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Someone in my wife's work is adamant that everybody should have a photo driving licence and this is law now? I can't see anything about this and I still just have my paper licence.
Is this part of new changes as well?
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You can keep your paper licence until it expires or you want to change it. If you drive in Europe you might find it easier to have a photo card licence as that is what the police / hire car companies expect but your licence is still legal.
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If you've not moved or become superannuated since photocard licences were introduced you'll have a photo licence only if you volunteered for one, most likely for the reason CGN suggests. But if you change address, as I did two years ago after 12 years at the previous address, you'll have no choice but to change to a photocard licence - and watch for its ten-year renewal cycle.
But then, by the time mine expires, it'll be showing a passport picture of me taken fifteen years earlier, and even with my seemingly ageless good looks that might be stretching credulity a little too far.
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I've got one, I didn't move address or want one but I had to surrender my licence for medical reasons. Now got it back, but of course they don't actually keep your paper licence, you have to reapply for a photocard.
Only thing you get, is you don't have to pay for it - medical grounds renewals are free.
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Resurrect an old thread.....
Going to USA, rules say need paper and photo licence, I only have the paper licence, never moved house so no need for photo licence.
So I am now applying for a photo licence but it would appear that you can only apply to exchange your paper licence for a photo one and as part of the agreement, you need to rip up your licence and send it back to them.
So I would end up with no paper licence so not any good for hiring abroad?
Help?
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I'm not sure I understand the question, but when you get a photocard licence there are two parts - the card, and the paper part. They will send you both.
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>> Going to USA, rules say need paper and photo licence, I only have the paper
>> licence, never moved house so no need for photo licence.
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I have a paper licence and use it at least once a year in the US with no problem.
I have no intention of changing it until I have to.
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When you apply for the photo license they will also send you the paper counterpart with it.
I have just come back from the States and hired a car with my old paper driving license.They did ask to see my passport as well so that covers the photo side of things.
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I see - the DVLA website didn't stipulate that they sent you back a paper part as well as the photo so that makes sense now!
Was going to just go with the paper license and passport but decided just to be triple sure just in case!!
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You get both a paper and photocard licence.
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If you've got motorbike on your licence, make sure you copy it before you send it off - there are plenty of stories of DVLA 'losing' entitlements, and then refusing to re-instate it as 'no evidence'!!
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>> If you've got motorbike on your licence, make sure you copy it before you send
>> it off - there are plenty of stories of DVLA 'losing' entitlements, and then refusing
>> to re-instate it as 'no evidence'!!
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When I moved house and obviously had to change the licence address details I got my solicitor to witness the driving entitlements and keep a photocopy of the licence.
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The only place that I have ever been asked for the paper bit when hiring a car is, er, England. Everywhere else just has a card and that's all they expect to see.
Rather embarassingly I'd just flown in from CZ, where I was working and living at the time and had left the paper bit behind as I'd not needed it in three years of global travel. Fortunately, the hire company decided to turn a blind eye.
I strongly suspect that the DVLA's statement that you'll need the paper part elsewhere is some sort of attempt to justify their monumental waste of time and money in printing the things and sending them out in the first place(!)
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A bit of news.
From the 10th April, a car test pass and the driver being 21 or older will now be able to drive three wheelers in the UK only.
This does mean that my 18 year old neighbour would be able to drive my Morgan when he is 21, but only in the UK. His sister, who passed her car test before 19th Jan 2013 and is only 20 (I think) would be able to drive it now - and anywhere else in the EU too. I ought to add though, I'll not be letting them.
A step in the right direction, but not the whole answer.
As Austria, Czech Republic, Denmark, France, Italy, Latvia, Luxembourg, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Spain and Sweden have also adopted the derogation, and Germany hasn't suspicion now falls on them as being responsible although finding out the truth is very difficult.
DVLC did write to me, but I found out first via an email repeater for Morgan three wheelers I set up.
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UK driving licence changes - from 19 January 2013 - Robin O'Reliant
