First of all sympathies, but would it not be worthwhile getting it fixed as it's got a new MOT?
So what'll he get next, should I advertise my KIA?
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What's happened to Dave's Mondeo? Apart from the damage by hailstones.
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>> What's happened to Dave's Mondeo?
Starting problems over the last couple of weeks, two AA call-outs, a new starter motor and various sensors changed to no avail. Final diagnosis from an AA patrol this evening of a failed DMF, par for the course at 144k I suppose.
Even a minter would struggle to fetch £1400 with 144k on a 55 plate, the hailstone dents don't help that. Suddenly a £700+ repair seems uneconomical, so Dad (who you'll remember, paid £2.8k for this one in Feb last year) has given me the nod to cut my losses and move on.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Sun 28 Oct 12 at 00:20
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Oh behave* Tubby, I really didn't want to raise a new topic on this... Although someone else predicted it when I posted a photo of the Ford behind an AA Transit on twofacebook last week. With all the hailstone dents it's worth £700 tops, do I really want to spend another £700+ on it just to end up with a knackered Mondeo?
My wonderful, ever-generous father has dug me out of the mire in the short term by offering to do the to-ing and fro-ing with my children at the end of their half-term holidays tomorrow. Work have no problem with me borrowing a van for a week or three. Looking forwards, Dad has also offered to assist, again, with the purchase of a replacement for the now-knackered Mondeo. Budget up to £4k.
I seem to be averaging 22k miles a year - traveling between work (25 miles away), son (33 miles), daughter (75 miles) and father (95 miles), all on dual carriageways or motorways. Work is based in a very remote location and I often start in the early hours so public transport isn't an option there. It's clear that the remit of the diesel Mondeo (space, fuel economy, refinement) was pretty well suited to the job, so the question is what to replace it with, that's not a TDCi Ford...
I have a clean licence and am merely days away from 40, so insurance isn't too much of a problem although I do park on an open driveway on a council estate. BMW 320ds and Merc C220CDIs are out on the insurance front I reckon, although the repair/maintenance costs probably wouldn't be any higher than the Mondeo :(
My kids are young and athletic, so a 5-door is not an absolute must - 90% of the time I'm driving solo or with only 1 other on board. I haven't had to fold the Mondeo's seats down for loading more than a couple of times in the 20 months I've had it.
A quick browse around Auto Trader and eBay this evening throws up (in no particular order, and not straying too far from dad's location in N Herts SG6) a 56 SEAT Altea Sport TDi, an 08 Clio 1.5DCi, a 57 Citroen C4 VTR+ HDi, an 05 VW Passat Trendline estate 100bhp auto and a Vx Meriva 1.7CDTi. They'd all fit the bill, what I'm after is minimal outlay to keep it running.
Any other thoughts / recommendations would be welcome...
*That's not quite what I said when I spotted this topic in the sidebar ;)
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One of the last of the A4 1.9 Tdi's.
A pal of mine has one on a P reg....mega miles, almost 60mpg on a steady run, and very very reliable. Cost him £2k several years ago.
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Dave, i made the decision some time ago to getaway from Diesel, certainly the more modern stuff, which given the budget you are playing with, gives you modern but with a good few miles.
If i was to consider Diesel again it would be someting like LL's suggestion above, an older simpler design, or so cheap that it was a throwaway risk.
Might i humbly suggest looking at alternatives such as petrol cars and going LPG, those which have already been converted or others, maybe those with the wrong badge, that can be bought cheaply at very low mileage having been owned by the ideal previous older drivers and converted for around a grand if you shop about, though other more mainstream cars seem to be bargains when fitted with petrol motors.
German cars seem to take well to LPG so research as to any other makes would be prudent as to their long term viability especially re valve seat recession, as you know my old MB gives good service on the stuff and i'm now well into 'profit' if you like, though i don't look at it that way, i get to drive a pleasant relatively trouble free car with a real auto box for the running cost of an evil Diesel eurobox and without having to listen or smell a tractor engine continually.
Obviously LPGing one yourself means committing to a car so its not to be taken lightly, and in my case the tank has taken up half the boot though still adequate for our needs, but then a toroidal 50 litre tank in the spare wheel well wouldn't be much use on a 3.2.
You know my email address, feel free to call at sunny..;) Northants just off the A14 and take the old girl out for a run and see what you think....i'm off next thu fri mon tue (but working sat sun) if you happened to be passing.
Might be worth nosing around on www.filllpg.co.uk/index.php?page=lpg.php for local suppliers to you, i'm currently paying 66ppl at an indy in Corby.
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Dave have a look at this, BUT more importantly have a look at the seller and read all he has to say. I have watched him now for a number of years and if I needed/wanted wanted a cheapie, for want of a better expression, I think I would give him a punt.
e-bay item 320993589650. He also currently has a 55 plate X-trail, but has had some lovely motors over the period.]
Good luck..............Martin.
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In my opinion, at the moment in time, there is only two choices when buying a car these days.
1/ Buy or lease a brand new one.
Off load as soon as the warranty is out.
2/ Buy a second hand car, for not one penny more than you can afford to lose.
Cars built in the last 10-15 years have become more and more disposable (expensive and difficult to repair)
I can see the time coming, where residuals drop faster than Felix Baumgartner - and I think that isn't far away now.
I really don't know what will happen when that time comes, because when it does who in their right mind would by a new car, with the massive losses they will see?
If you think the amount you lose by driving a car out the showroom is large now, just wait a few years more.....
Last edited by: swiss tony on Sun 28 Oct 12 at 10:39
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>> 2/ Buy a second hand car, for not one penny more than you can afford
>> to lose.
>>
>> Cars built in the last 10-15 years have become more and more disposable (expensive and
>> difficult to repair)
Not so. I am driving one right now. Its still less than 6 years old, It cost me 5 grand to buy, it will last me 10 years plus, and the last service cost 29 quid.
There are plenty of similar cars around like mine.
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Edit, And i forgot to mention that the UK has the largest, most comprehensive, varied and cheapest source of used cars over almost anywhere int he world.
I really didnt know this was gloom and doom sunday,
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>> I really didnt know this was gloom and doom sunday,
Some people even had their danders up first thing this morning...
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>> Edit, And i forgot to mention that the UK has the largest, most comprehensive, varied
>> and cheapest source of used cars over almost anywhere int he world.
I have to second that - in other car markets second hand cars are comparatively very expensive, I can't comment on the UK's closer European neighbours but in Aus they still want GBP5K for a 12 year old Golf and you'll be lucky to get 25% off the new price for a 3 year old 50K mile car of any make. Hong Kong was worse, albeit an unusual marketplace - people wanted 50% of the new price for 7 year old cars (which hadn't yet been subjected to any MoT and service-skipping is rife).
Maybe the UK market is unsustainable ? I suspect it's skewed by the still-high number of fleet sales but the horrendous depreciation UK punters endure (or endured) might be less palatable with the trend towards de-leveraging and avoiding easy credit ?
I contend that all modern cars are built to last, perhaps 'only' for 10 years and/or 100K miles but within that design envelope they're all OK imho. I can't recall the last time I saw a rusty car but I personally think that most cars are beyond their design life past these sort of mileages and whilst it may prove to be economic (fun even) to run such vehicles - you need to accept they're on borrowed time.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Tue 30 Oct 12 at 00:50
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>>
>> >> 2/ Buy a second hand car, for not one penny more than you can afford
>> >> to lose.
>> >>
>> >> Cars built in the last 10-15 years have become more and more disposable (expensive
>> and difficult to repair)
>>
>> Not so. I am driving one right now. Its still less than 6 years old, It cost me 5 grand to buy, it will last me 10 years plus, and the last service cost 29 quid.
>>
>> There are plenty of similar cars around like mine.
>>
Carry on believing that if you wish.
If/when a major fault occurs, (more and more often electronics related) then the cost of replacement ECU's etc, then coding of those units by someone able to (more and more dealers only) then don't come crying to me.
Mechanical faults are also getting much more expensive to repair - Mk1 and 2 Mondeos clutches are the best part of a grand to get done properly - subframe and engine out, geometry needs doing after that.
Just look at Dave's problem - that's where I'm coming from......
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>> Carry on believing that if you wish.
I will, because its true.
>> Just look at Dave's problem - that's where I'm coming from......
I dont have daves car. Anyone could have told him that a leggy mondeo diesel was going to lunch its DMF, as sure as night follows day.
Given the huge choice of cars available second hand, I could land him a second hand petrol estate currently with low mileage, well under 5 grand, and it will do him for another 100k miles with little in the way of mechanical aggro.
He wouldnt like it, but its out there.
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Ah but - it's a Mitsubishi, built in Japan, you can't really compare it to €uropean built cars IMHO.
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>> Ah but - it's a Mitsubishi, built in Japan, you can't really compare it to
>> €uropean built cars IMHO.
But its available in Europe.
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>> Ah but - it's a Mitsubishi, built in Japan, you can't really compare it to
>> €uropean built cars IMHO.
>>
Well, I have searched for a smiley, but I can't see one?
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Any modern diesel at the 4K mark is going to be a risky purchase and if its a Ford then it will be a huge risk ! Go petrol, possibly an Avensis, it will do mid 40's on the type of journeys you do and will never go wrog.
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>>Well, I have searched for a smiley, but I can't see one?<<
Japanese cars usually come top in the reliability stakes.
I sleep better knowing my Japanese car was actually built in Japan.
It's the same with my recently purchased Lumix FZ200 - Made in Japan not China.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzz
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>> Japanese cars usually come top in the reliability stakes.
>>
>> I sleep better knowing my Japanese car was actually built in Japan.
I'd agree with that, but i wonder if yours and Z's Mitsi's will turn out like those wonderful older Nissans and Toyotas of the 80's 90s and a few 00's, a bit old fashioned and none the worse for that, the last of their line and the replacements whilst still good not quite so simply robust, durable and most importantly easy to repair as the best years, maybe turn out frighteningly expensive when they do start to go wrong...as our ST mentions, when parts need to be programmed in by a main dearer and not just buy a bit from the scrappy bolt it on and away you go.
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The ole Lancer just seems like it will go on and on gord. and such a better driving experience than my previous 1.8 Almera.
I wouldn't be interested in the latest Lancer model TBH, and that goes for most 'modern' cars really, so I'll just have to hang on to the Lancer, until something else catches my eye (like a Bentley Flying Spur)
:}
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>> I'd agree with that, but i wonder if yours and Z's Mitsi's will turn out like those wonderful older Nissans and Toyotas of the 80's 90s and a few 00's, a bit old fashioned and none the worse for that, the last of their line and the replacements whilst still good not quite so simply robust, durable and most importantly easy to repair as the best years, maybe turn out frighteningly expensive when they do start to go wrong...as our ST mentions, when parts need to be programmed in by a main dearer and not just buy a bit from the scrappy bolt it on
and away you go.
>>
Thats what I mean.
I have been at the sharp end of the motor trade longer than I care to remember, and whilst the cars in the showroom are the best they have ever been, (general reliability, ease of driving, comfort etc) I have noticed that the faults cars have are more than ever before likely to write the car off.
Whilst I realise, and admit, that we see the problem cars, not the healthy ones, you cannot help but see the way things are moving.
Almost on a daily basis, I am seeing customers almost (sometimes actually) in tears when being told what is wrong with their car, and how much it will cost to repair.
What I am also seeing, is more and more garages struggling to remain viable.
I work for a garage, which was a family owned place, and is now part of a group (members of the family still hold an interest in the group) and I have seen the gross profit fall year on year.
I ask other traders how they are doing, and the ones I don't know well say ''ok(ish)'' the ones I know well tell me the truth - they are struggling.
One guy in particular, served his apprenticeship alongside me, then 20 years ago set up on his own.
For a fair while he did well, had the holidays etc....
I saw him last week - all he can do these days is servicing, He can't afford the equipment needed to much else on a modern car.
He needs a new joint - because of an old motorcycling injury - but can't afford to take the time off.... self-employed.
He is too old to get a decent job back in the trade - basically he is stuffed.
Most people in the trade today, if they owned up, are not happy.
most of us haven't had a payrise in 6-8 years.
When outsiders ask, we put on a brave face, after all, if we didn't we would be kicked out, and replaced by someone willing to keep quiet.
Last edited by: swiss tony on Sun 28 Oct 12 at 14:10
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>> Almost on a daily basis, I am seeing customers almost (sometimes actually) in tears when
>> being told what is wrong with their car, and how much it will cost to
>> repair.
What cars are these though? What sort of problems are appearing?
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>> >> Almost on a daily basis, I am seeing customers almost (sometimes actually) in tears
>> when being told what is wrong with their car, and how much it will cost to repair.
>>
>> What cars are these though? What sort of problems are appearing?
>>
Most makes and types.
I have first hand experience with makes from Ford to Rolls Royce, and whilst I don't work with them all now, I do have friends that do still cover most makes.
I don't want to give away the make I work with currently, because I fear for my job, if I say too much.
The makes I do have current information on (partly my own, and my friends) cover the major range available today.
The problems?
DPF's much grief there!
DMF, they do seem to be getter better, but still a few issues...
Diesel injectors - seem to be problems with many makes, Mercedes being the most reported.
Sensor failures, ECU's, fuel leaks (very common, but expected due to the high pressure systems now used), ABS and traction control issues, instrument clusters failing....
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>>I have noticed that the faults cars have are more than ever before likely to write the car off.
Surely there are two other factors; Presumaby cars these days are written off by a big electronics issue, whereas they used to get written off by the cumulative impact of many mechanical and structural issues. Presumably it also happens to less cars, and to older cars, then it used too.
In any case I can see the other issue which is that the nature of an electronics repair, as opposed to a mechanical repair, is the lower opportunity for paid work for a smaller repairer without the infrastructure.
I'm just dealing with a similar issue here (Chile). My car basically needs a mechanical repair, and it is currently with a mechanical repairer. But looking around his place he is increasingly limited to older and older vehicles, and nastier and nastier jobs, becuase he does not have the knowledge, training, aptitidue or money to get into electronics repairs.
Its a changing world. But I think the greater impact is going to be to the independent repairer, much more than to the owners of the vehicles.
Also, there will be increasingly more opportunities to those cpaable of electronic repairs, rather than mechanical repairs.
e.g. cars are given new ECUs these days, or written off because of the need for them. In England. Elsewhere, say the Philipines or South America, they are repaired. Not always, but with increasing frequency.
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>> Its a changing world. But I think the greater impact is going to be to the independent repairer, much more than to the owners of the vehicles.
Primarily yes.
But as less people can repair faults, then the owners have less choice.
Many ECU's are now locked to a vehicle, so cannot be swapped with a secondhand one, and repairs to ECU, are becoming harder to due, due to the non-tampering designs of manufacturers.... sealed cases, components sealed in place etc.
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Sorry to hear of your car woes Dave. Maybe something like a Lancer might fit the bill. It seems they are pretty good according to the forum's very own variants on Waldorf and Statler. The 1600 ones are fairly economical and they seem very cheap. Not bad to look at either.
I do have to take issue though with the rather predictable but misguided anti Mondeo diesel comments though. Especially those from people who have never actually had one. I know of at least 9 examples of TDCi Mondys with either nigh on or indeed over 200,000 miles on them which have never had clutch or DMF issues. Three of them were mine, another three were ( one still is ) run by one of my closest friends, two of them by another pal and a third by another guy I know.
I will accept that some TDCis will have DMF failure because some people, including you Dave, have reported it and when they do, it's evidently expensive to fix. Maybe a short grand? However, many of them soldier on with no problems at all for years and in the scheme of things all marques have their Achilles heels. Looked at another way, if a 10 year old Merc with north of 100k on it needed an £800 fix many might think that was par for the course but when a humble Mondeo needs something done is it suddenly supposed to cost 2.5p ?
However, as I've pointed out here many times before, no matter how often those who hold a particular prejudice are presented with evidence to the contrary, they still tend to prefer to hang on to their tooth sucking beliefs.
As for me, I don't get on with Vauxhalls and don't try to persuade me otherwise and as for anything with a cambelt or any Renault, well squire...suck suck....
:-)
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Sun 28 Oct 12 at 16:27
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>> I do have to take issue though with the rather predictable but misguided anti Mondeo
>> diesel comments though. Especially those from people who have never actually had one. I know
>> of at least 9 examples of TDCi Mondys with either nigh on or indeed over
>> 200,000 miles on them which have never had clutch or DMF issues. Three of them
>> were mine, another three were ( one still is ) run by one of my
>> closest friends, two of them by another pal and a third by another guy I
>> know.
>>
>> I will accept that some TDCis will have DMF failure because some people, including you
>> Dave, have reported it and when they do, it's evidently expensive to fix.
I understand its hard to accept that the same technology exists on your beatified Mondeo, that exists on a Renault. Perhaps we can suggest some from of counselling or support group?
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Oh gosh, selective interpretation, wow that's unusual for an internet forum isn't it?
:-)
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Nothing selective about it, its unabridged!
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Indeed I must be thick, because I have not got faintest idea what you're getting at. Have another Limoncello old boy.
:-)
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Oh never mind, pretending to be dumb gets one out of a bind I see!
Alas - no limoncello in the house tonight. Mores the pity.
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>> But as less people can repair faults, then the owners have less choice.
>> Many ECU's are now locked to a vehicle, so cannot be swapped with a secondhand
>> one, and repairs to ECU, are becoming harder to due, due to the non-tampering designs
>> of manufacturers.... sealed cases, components sealed in place etc.
I have sympathy for the owners of cars that just need them to get from A to B without going wrong. The more enthusiastic owners will have the time and inclination to find other, cheaper ways of repairing them. There is always someone, somewhere who will get around a modern piece of technology and find a solution - they treat it as an interesting challenge. If all else fails in the case of an ECU, you could even buy an aftermarket unit from the tuning industry. No good on a car that costs peanuts, admittedly, but then you would just scrap it anyway.
Certainly my indie mechanic won't touch anything he doesn't understand, and will tell you straight away, but he seems to do well from general servicing and basic mechanical stuff.
There are plenty of older cars still running - at the moment.
Last edited by: corax on Sun 28 Oct 12 at 16:31
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A chap I know that does ECU upgrades says that a lot of recent cars have virtually become tamper proof.
However is it not a retrograde step to make cars that at a certain age (and not really old) un-repairable? If the owner can't afford the repair or indeed another car, where in the big picture is the progress?
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>> A chap I know that does ECU upgrades says that a lot of recent cars
>> have virtually become tamper proof.
>>
>> However is it not a retrograde step to make cars that at a certain age
>> (and not really old) un-repairable? If the owner can't afford the repair or indeed another
>> car, where in the big picture is the progress?
>>
Exactly...
As I said earlier, I have been in the motor trade many many years, and I have never understood why the sale of new car's is the primary aim.
There is IMHO much more money to be made in the aftersales side.
When you take into account all the costs, design, r&d, actual manufacturing costs, advertising etc, even the manufactures don't make much GP.
Just look how many have, or nearly have gone to the wall over the last few years.
Now look at the money that could be made over 10-15 years in servicing and repairs.
Problem is the aftermarket got too big ie the choice of outside repairers and parts suppliers.
By making sealed unrepairable units requiring special tools, they could have won the business back, but, I think its too little too late.
People now WANT the latest cars... they have after all been told that is what they want over many years.
And as I said, we are now heading to the time of economically unrepairable cars, but that surely will lower the residuals, to the point people can't afford to buy new and take the big hit?
Then what will happen?
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>> And as I said, we are now heading to the time of economically unrepairable cars,
>> but that surely will lower the residuals, to the point people can't afford to buy
>> new and take the big hit?
>> Then what will happen?
>>
Simple, as an impoverished pensioner In future I will buy end of lease less than 20K mile Motability cars for a third of their new price and run them until it or I die.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 28 Oct 12 at 17:17
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>
>> And as I said, we are now heading to the time of economically unrepairable cars,
Thats simply not true. Either int he unrepairable section or the uneconomic section.
How many of the current 2012 Focuses rolling of the line make it to 12 year 150k miles mark? Most of them. How many will be bought cheap;y at three years old and go on to do another 9 years good service? Most of them.
>> but that surely will lower the residuals, to the point people can't afford to buy
>> new and take the big hit?
>> Then what will happen?
car makers have been making and selling cars for over a century, you have to assume they know what they are doing and are not deliberately trying to put themselves out of business.
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Sometimes you may be unlucky and the car does need to be scrapped before it reaches ten years old. But most cars will make ten years old easily without massive expensive required. My ex's Clio was on about 130,000 miles and despite it being badly serviced it was still going strong when she got rid of it. Although it was clearly worn, had plenty of rattles and the shock absorbers were pretty useless.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Sun 28 Oct 12 at 17:34
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>>to the point people can't afford to buy new and take the big hit?
That might be valid if anybody ever bought new on the basis of an effective financial model. People buy new because they can and they want to.
However the balance between new and old works in the future, the days of a repairer with a hammer are dying.
It is not just that people will not pay for the skills to repair high-tech cars, although that has some relevance, it is that the trade is largely inhabited by people who do not have those skills and are trying to cling to the old world for as long as possible.
It is changing from a market one could enter with a set of molegrips and a socket set, to a market one has to enter with computers.
What is sad is that yet another trade which could be valuably followed by those with no interest in classroom learning falls by the wayside.
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>>we are now heading to the time of economically unrepairable cars
There has always been such a thing. It just used to be because they were rusty and the big ends had gone, whereas these days the ECU has gone toes up.
Cars beyond economical repair are not a new thing.
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>> Cars beyond economical repair are not a new thing.
>>
That is true, I can remember cars being scrapped before their tenth birthday due to terminal rust.
I believe that the Lancia brand was pulled from the UK due to a severe rust problem and the Lancia badged cars sold on the continent are now sold as Chryslers here.
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My dads Lada was on 67,000 and 9 years old. It had so much wrong with it you would not believe.
Taken at 9 years old being towed to the scrap yard.
i167.photobucket.com/albums/u141/amazingtrade/lada.jpg
It ran on three cylinders, only had three working gears, terminal rust and of the windows would keep dropping down. The piston rings were also shot, so lots and lots of blue smoke, it so bad he got pulled by the cops who told him to stop driving it or he would get done.
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my grandmother bought a new lada in 1982. even though i was 13 i knew it was a bad car even though we had a maxi 1750 and a princess 2.2hls.
it was in and out the garage and at anything above 70mph it would visibly lift at the front and judder and after 2years of it not working it was sold for next to nothing, luckily she came into some money and replaced it with a 2yr old bmw 730i
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>> Taken at 9 years old being towed to the scrap yard.
>>
>> i167.photobucket.com/albums/u141/amazingtrade/lada.jpg
What a waste. The Russians would have bought that off you and driven it back to the homeland.
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>> What is sad is that yet another trade which could be valuably followed by those
>> with no interest in classroom learning falls by the wayside.
Absolutely.
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>>
>> >> What is sad is that yet another trade which could be valuably followed by
>> those
>> >> with no interest in classroom learning falls by the wayside.
+1
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Quite a few Seats with 1.9 Tdi's - I would think they would prove to be reliable
A colleague has a 98 Accord 1.8. Bought for £600 as a stop gap 3 years ago. It refuses the let him down, and continues to pass MOT's quite easily so hes hung on to it. Reckons he can nurse 40 mpg out of it if hes gentle.
I've leased my last 3 cars and enjoyed having something new with no hassle, but I could do with cutting my monthly outgoings so in 12 months time I'm not sure if its going to be "new" car, or something else. Cant see me spending in the 4K region though, either more or less as I'm not confident enough to get something decent
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If I was Dave I would forget diesel.
For a decent drive with reliability I would go for a Mazda 6 petrol.
I've had one of these - great to drive and they just don't go wrong.
30 mpg (35 on a run) is the downside but I put on 60k miles on one and nothing went wrong.
Petrol and servicing (oil change every 12,500 full service every 25K) the only costs.
Here's a good example from a main dealer 05 plate 55K miles and £2800 , don't spend any more than you have to. Plenty under £3K.
tinyurl.com/8c22uxn
good luck
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Or, the car I was going to buy before I bought the Chancer:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201241488099744/
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Someone local to me is selling their Mazda 6 privately. When i walked past it the other day it was up for sale at £2350, '06 plate 2.0 petrol. Seemed a lot of car for the money. Might peruse the details tomorrow when I walk past it again.
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Thanks Jacks, Dog and LL. Dad's pointed me at a 47k-mile Mazda 6 2.0 petrol hatch at a dealer near him, a little newer and a bit dearer. Going to check it over properly at the weekend, gift horses and all that... And then I caught up on this thread, seems to be a sensible choice of car. Japanese cars built in Japan are usually a good bet.
Given the ownership experiences on here I wouldn't mind a Lancer at all, but there aren't any suitable age/mileage/condition examples for sale in my (or his) local areas. It seems their owners like to hang on to them :)
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Is this ostensibly the same engine as in the Mondeo III ? I had this in two cars and found it to be very reliable, it gave decent performance and surprising economy (mid to high 30s hauling Mondeo III Estates which are quite large). Servicing was cheap but I think HJ highlights a few weaknesses in the design - nothing that would put me off though and I'd recommend one over the diesel when the lower purchase cost more than offsets any fuel economy benefits of the diesel.
Could I (ahem) suggest a Toyota Avensis ?
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You could, I'm open to all suggestions. Browsed a few Avenses and Corollas.
The weaknesses in HJ's Mazda6 breakdown all seem to affect variants or years other than the one we're looking at - no clear issues with this one at all (TS2 auto). It's no good me saving £10 a week (ie £500 a year) on fuel by having a common rail diesel if I get a £250 repair bill every 6 months.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Tue 30 Oct 12 at 02:05
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Dave
Look closely at the rear wheel arches on older Mazda6 models.
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I'd say the Mazda6 (first model not the current, soon to be replaced one) was a good car. Even as a diesel. But I'd not get a diesel second hand because of the DPF regeneration problems - rising oil levels which must do some damage.
The problems I had with my Mazda6 which might be worth knowing were:
- A leaking shock absorber - probably not common
- I seem to recall a problem with central locking on the driver's door - fixed under warranty
- In the last few months, the gears became stiff in gears 1 and 2. Before that the gear change was super smooth all the time.
A well built, well sized car IMO.
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>> Is this ostensibly the same engine as in the Mondeo III
No. It's a different engine.
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Dave, this might not be your sort of thing, but while idly playing with the filters on Autotrader for no reason at all, this came up and I thought of your brief...
Edit - whoops too long a link !
Anyway, it was a Chevrolet Lacetti estate with 16,000 miles at about £3.5k
I'm sure you'll find it if it's interesting
Here we go - tinyurl.com/8zg3qas
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Tue 30 Oct 12 at 18:58
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This one? www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201243490143977
EDIT: ah Humph beat me to it. You can just remove everything after the number to shorten the link.
Last edited by: Focus on Tue 30 Oct 12 at 19:00
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Ah yes, but I finally, ( feeling quite smug here ) managed to make a tiny owl thingy !
Thanks anyway Focusless old chap !
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>> Thanks anyway Focusless old chap !
I like it! Name changed :)
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He could try racing that around top gears track to compare it to the other Lacetti.
Humph you should have made the TinyURL more personal, e.g.
tinyurl.com/Dave-Lacetti
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Show off ! I've only just managed my very first "owl", gimme a break !
:-)
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My neighbour bought a hatchback Lacetti new in 2007, he kept it for 3 years without a single problem occuring. It was the most exciting drive but it did everything he needed it to. He lost a shed load of money on it, but somebody else has already taken the hit on this one.
Last edited by: Skip on Tue 30 Oct 12 at 19:09
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>> Here is another low mileage one.
>>
>> www.robertblackandson.co.uk/used-cars/chevrolet-lacetti-1-6-sx-5dr-inverkeithing-201207450725037
>>
Inverkeithing ! I don't think Dave wants to venture that far into the boondocks, might never be seen again!
stick with the Mazda6 - the 1.8 is group 7 ins, and all the petrols are chain cam, what's not to like?
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Tidy looking car that Lacetti. Alloys and metal-finish roofrails too. Looks as good as new. Very tempting.
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Yes I thought of a Lacetti too, again not many in the Luton/Stevenage area (which is where we'll be buying). The Mazda 6 is a 2.0 petrol auto on a 57 plate, so a facelift first-generation model. Low mileage too, just under 50k. I thought the economy would be awful, but it's 39mpg combined and 49 extra urban which is comparable to many 1.6 petrol manuals (using Auto Trader figures for comparison).
Mondeo TDCi 130 6 speeds come up as 47mpg combined and 57 extra, I was getting between 45 and 50 in the real world.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Tue 30 Oct 12 at 20:42
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>> Yes I thought of a Lacetti too, again not many in the Luton/Stevenage area (which
>> is where we'll be buying). The Mazda 6 is a 2.0 petrol auto on a
>> 57 plate, so a facelift first-generation model. Low mileage too, just under 50k. I thought
>> the economy would be awful, but it's 39mpg combined and 49 extra urban which is
>> comparable to many 1.6 petrol manuals (using Auto Trader figures for comparison).
>>
In the real world
I had a 2.0 manual 6 speed 2007model for 3 years & 50K miles.
I live in a rural area but do a mixture of shortish 3-15 mile local trips on B roads with a few spirited 40 mile motorway runs each week - with very little actual inner city "urban".
30 mpg with this usage which rose to 35 only on long runs (ie holidays to France).
I am, though, an 80-85 mph driver on the m/way and at 65-70 mph you might get better.
I would doubt 39 though - it's a big car.
The big plus though is that the 6 is ultra reliable with no lurking problems (chain cam engine etc), and it really drives well - the steering is a delight (it's taken from the MX5) - I'm sure you'll like the drive. Plenty around with low mileage so you can be picky, even the later shape 2008 onwards model (good looking car) I've seen under £5K. The 2002-07 model can be bought for 3K with decent mileage - it was facelifted in 2007 and these look slightly better.
J
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Well, that's kind of what I thought Nick. Not instantly at the top of anyone's shopping list maybe but if someone wanted a practical family wagon, relatively new, low mileage and presentable enough... I mean to say, £3.5 grand ! Can't knock it really.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Tue 30 Oct 12 at 20:40
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Mazda 6 gets my vote iv owned a 2006 2ltr, 6 speed since march, bought with 62k now done 74k and apart from a service when i first got it has cost nothing but fuel and been faultless.
Having owned fords for 22yrs and had 3 mondeos a mk 1, 2 and 3 the mazda was a perfect alternative same engine as the mk3 mondeo but with vvt gives it a bit more power and slightly better economy, brim to brim every week averaging 32 around town 30 to 40mph roads, 38mpg on motorway at 80mph, low 40s at 70mph. Drives quiter and smoother than my mk3 and the seats are more comfortable and its a nicer place to be.
Iv got the ts2 model everything is electric and comes with a sunroof and climate control,ABS, traction control and the best part is the BOSE 6disc cd player with a built in subwoofer which fits inside the space saver tyre in boot out of the way.The sound is crystal clear, loud and plenty of bass when needed and the best part i only paid £2800 with 13 MOT.
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>> Dave, this might not be your sort of thing, but while idly playing with the
>> filters on Autotrader for no reason at all, this came up and I thought of
>> your brief...
>>
>> Edit - whoops too long a link !
>>
>> Anyway, it was a Chevrolet Lacetti estate with 16,000 miles at about £3.5k
>>
>> I'm sure you'll find it if it's interesting
>>
>> Here we go - tinyurl.com/8zg3qas
Damn you humph, I was going to bring up that very make and model of car. That is the car I had in mind when I said "there are cars like mine out there"
The up market "bangernomics" model, like mine, depends on buying modernish (> 3/4 years old) low milage models that are deeply unloved or fancied, and subsequently cheap to buy (less than 5 years). You are more or less guaranteed to get 100k/ten years trouble free miles out of them and so you hit the 500 quid a year bangernomics model.
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No worries Z. You just have to relax and understand that I'm usually right. You'll be a much happier old chap when you accept that you know... My wife still fights that inevitability but she'll get it eventually I expect...
:-)))
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Dave I don't know if it's been said but what about the Octavia?
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I have some experience of Octavias, they're great cars but hard to find one around £4k that's as new as, or as good as the other cars mentioned here. Not even slightly fussed about image, if my kids don't want to be seen getting out of it that'll save me even more petrol :)
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That's the only downside, you will end up a bit older although to make up for it they do last and wear there miles well. Having a look at them, even the older MK1 diesel still fetch good money. My dad has one, a newer oner but still I would agree they are nice cars. It's on my short list for next time.
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>> No worries Z. You just have to relax and understand that I'm usually right. You'll
>> be a much happier old chap when you accept that you know... My wife still
>> fights that inevitability but she'll get it eventually I expect...
Thats what I like about you Humph, your humility.
Still it happens infrequently I suppose, I too would be over excited about it if if were in your shoes.
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I walked past the private sale Mazda 6 again this am en route to work,,,'06 2.0 petrol TS. Tax & MOT end of March, 76,500 miles, 5dr in Phantom Blue metallic.Fabric trim. Two owners, self & pre reg at garage. Still advertised at £2350, but I would offer £2k.
After a 100% reliable Mazda 626, boring but cheap (bought for £950, sold after 3 years for £900 to a friend) I was v impressed with the marque. With a mere 134bhp it went ok, so I assume the newer 6 goes equally well with more power.
Cheap practical motoring.
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Of course this would be a bad idea... 39 mpg mind...
:-)
tinyurl.com/bon6br7
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>>tinyurl.com/bon6br7
Back to school? ;>)
Error: Unable to find site's URL to redirect to.
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>> >>tinyurl.com/bon6br7
>>
>> Back to school? ;>)
>>
>> Error: Unable to find site's URL to redirect to.
Works for me
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201237485174717
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"Dave_TDCi's next car"... is a 57 reg Mazda6 TS 2.0 147bhp auto hatchback.
This will be a quick post, on account of it being my birthday (one ending in -ty, at that).
Checked over the Mazda at a dealer in N Herts this afternoon, seemed OK all over so it's now bought and parked on my drive. It's not a TS2 as I first thought - although the only differences are a CD stacker and a sunroof, neither of which I miss. 2 owners (3yrs on Motability, 2yrs private ownership then px'd for a C-Class at this dealer), a low 48k miles, full Mazda history, £4k. First impressions: It did 41mpg on the 90-mile drive back up the Friday-night-busy M1, it seems a bit keen to kickdown to 4th when hoofing it from 55mph (unless you put it in tiptronic mode in which case it stays in 5th), loud stereo, good heater. Very Japanese. Got 300 miles to do over the weekend, more in-depth report to follow.
The Mondeo is no more, I weighed it in on Wednesday. There can't have been many 55-reg cars scrapped yet, but at 144k miles with well over 100 hailstone dents and a seized DM flywheel it was the sensible option for mine. Good 55 TDCi Mondeos sell for no more than £1500, ones with issues £600. The dents meant it would never be any good for retail or minicab use, and I'd have been stupid to spend £600-700 on a new DMF to end up with a £600 car. I've spent over £400 on repairs on it in the last month, ouchy. Got three hundred back at the scrapyard and cashed in the tax disc with 6 months left.
I need a new username now :) Over and out.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Fri 2 Nov 12 at 22:20
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I hope the Mazda is reliable. I bet you're glad you didn't attempt to fix any of those hailstone dents!
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Does it smell nice when you get in?
;>)
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Well done, Dave_TS, and congratulations on your ninetieth birthday.
Bit odd, this business of naming ourselves after something as impermanent as a motor car. It's a bit like those people who buy a number plate with their car's model number on it, only easier to change; there's an E saloon round my way with a plate beginning S60... Must belong to an expatriate Scot: "I've paid for it and I'm damn well gonnae use it."
};---)
I passed WDB 1 yesterday.
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>> Why wouldn't it BT?
I don't change cars very often, but whenever I do I notice the 'new to me' smell. I've never bought brand new.
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All's well that ends well then Mazda_Dave = good Japanese car, good mileage + proper gearbox.
I just hope y'all don't get any more of those hale n' hearty hail storms up there!
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Wotta lotta car for four grand - beats me why peeps buy new TBH:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201235483644801/
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>> "Dave_TDCi's next car"... is a 57 reg Mazda6 TS 2.0 147bhp auto hatchback.
>>
Well done Dave, as one of the champions of the model on this thread I'm pleased you found a nice car.
some info.
I'm not surprised yours is ex- motability, in 2007 Motability were offering the 6 with no upfront payment as they got a good bulk deal from Mazda as the production stock was cleared out ready for switching production in Japan for the new shape 2008.
I'm sure you've discovered this already but there is no service book to stamp - everything is done online. The Mazda dealer can print out the entire history every time the car is serviced if the owner wishes. If you don't have a full record ANY Mazda dealer will print off the service record for you. The motability ownership period at least will have seen main dealer service.
At 48K - if the previous services have been done to time at 12,500 intervals - it may be coming up for the 50K service. The biggish one is at 62500 when coolant and plugs are renewed.
Here is a link to some light bedtime reading
tinyurl.com/824zdd7
It's the official Mazda online workshop manual - all 1187 pages of it !, it's downloadable or you can read it online.
Good luck with the car.
Jacks
Last edited by: Jacks on Sat 3 Nov 12 at 12:49
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Dave - will be interested to see what your real MPG is over the next few weeks. One of those would suit me nicely when the Volvo goes back next year, but the book MPG looks to be around 32 which would be a bit low for me.
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So... In 2 days I've covered near as dammit 400 miles in the Mazda. It seems well put-together, with no rattles or odd noises, although there's a little more road noise at motorway speeds than the Mondeo - the nippers have had to raise their voices to be heard from the back seat. It's intuitive to drive, with direct steering and well-positioned controls. Climate control is a nice touch, it dawned on me this evening that I hadn't had to tweak the heating controls at all this weekend.
I gave it a wash when the rain stopped briefly this afternoon, found a couple of minor chips which need touching in but nothing like the Ford's myriad bumps and scrapes. And of course no hailstone dents :) It's comfortable inside, although the front seat base is quite short with not very much support under the thighs. That might just be a case of trying a few different positions until I find the right one (I'm 6'3" and quite gangly).
A refill this evening saw the first tankful used at 33.5mpg over a hectic, mostly fully-loaded weekend, so that figure should improve as I get used to the car. The trip computer shows the fuel use in litres per 100 miles, which I'll either get used to or figure out how to change - I haven't had the time to open the handbook yet.
Overall a very appealing long-term ownership prospect - I hope I get it to last longer than the last one!
And thanks WDB for the slightly inaccurate birthday wishes... It'll be another three score years before I'm due a telegram! :)
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>>The trip computer shows the fuel use in litres per 100 miles, which I'll either get used to or figure out how to change
Nah you cannot change it. I never worked out how having one. Just ignored it to be honest. Worked out mpg brim to brim anyway.
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I see to recall Mazdas being able to show MPG but in US gallons.
May have been a dream of course....
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It's a quick bit of mental arithmetic to convert the l/100m figure into English... Just divide 454.6 by the readout figure to get mpg, simples :)
Or just try to reduce the current 13.6* a bit... anything less than 11.2** is a good thing.
*33.5mpg
**40mpg
Actually, I think I'll stick with RTJ's technique.
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Nice new car, Dave. I had one, a 55 plate mk1 facelift 2.0 auto, 147PS/bhp/woteva. Sounds like yours is the same as mine. I loved driving mine, in fact alongside a 1.8LX Mondeo estate I once had, probably the nicest car I've ever owned.
However. A warning to others. Do not buy one of these if you're going to drive almost exclusively in town and fuel consumption is important to you. I could only ever get 225-250 miles out of a full tank in urban conditions. Gawd knows what mpg that translated to - as you said these cars have l/100km indicators. But it was low, of that I'm sure.
I still miss it and would have another in a heartbeat, though, if petrol were the right fuel for my needs at the moment. In fact, I'd probably buy an estate tomorrow if there were diesel autos available.
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Well done Dave ! Hope it serves you well, and to be fair, it's way cooler than a Lacetti...
:-)
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Humph did you get the e-mail ?
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Email? No, nothing received I'm afraid. When sent?
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If this was on my account, RP, thanks for passing it on.
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I bought mine at 62k and serviced it myself, the biggest expense was the plugs £60 for a set of NGK could of got cheaper ones like denso but iv always liked NGK. Doesn't have leads got coils that fit directly to the plugs.
Hope you enjoy yours as much a i do mine.
Last edited by: mazda chris on Sat 3 Nov 12 at 21:02
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>> the biggest expense was the plugs £60 for a set
Strewth! I can remember buying plugs for £1.00 per set, and I'm not that ancient.
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>> >> the biggest expense was the plugs £60 for a set
>>
>> Strewth! I can remember buying plugs for £1.00 per set, and I'm not that ancient.
I can never remember paying 5 bob a plug, so you must be really ancient.
Changed the plugs in the Lancer last service - Bosch - fancy ones - 20 quid the set.
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He didn't say it was a set of four, Z.
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>> He didn't say it was a set of four, Z.
He could have a V12 and it would still be cheaper using the Bosch plugs.
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Better to fit NGK plugs in a Japanese (or any) car:
spark-plugs.co.uk/index.php/search/simple/59139
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I hope you used a proper oil filter too: goo.gl/2riKF
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>>Better to fit NGK plugs in a Japanese (or any) car:
I don't agree - better, usually, to fit the original spark plug type in the car.
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>>I can never remember paying 5 bob a plug, so you must be really ancient.
Flattery will get you nowhere.
I might have been around a tad longer than your 59 years, but as an ex company buyer in my younger days I have an eye for a bargain.
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The plugs i took out was NGK and the service records i got from mazda never mentioned that they had been changed. They are Iridium Spark Plugs and haves a 25mm reach. Looking at them now they have gone down in price,Typical
www.carsparkplugs.com/ViewPlugs.aspx?id=1036
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Dave_TDCi's next car - rtj70
