Would you swap an ultra-reliable, cheap to run, no money needing to be spent on it, but ultimately uninspiring, drives-like-van and irritatingly noisy, Ford Galaxy 1.9TDi Ghia auto, for this:
tinyurl.com/9u7czkl
Just because you feel like it?
Thoughts?
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Absolutely, unless there was some functionality I needed from the Galaxy that I couldn't get from the Saab.
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Well, I do occasionally use the 6th and 7th seat. Maybe twice over the years I've owned it, mind.
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Assuming that you've got the same Galaxy that I had, then I guess you leave the 6th & 7th seat at home until you need it so badly its worth hauling the things out of the shed and smashing your knuckles to pieces putting them back in the car.
And then when you do you've naff all luggage room.
Get the Saab. If you need 6 or 7 seats once in a blue moon, pay for a taxi to follow you on those rare occasions.
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the galaxy would be gone in a heartbeat. if you can afford to run it and want it then i'd buy it. life's too short
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Came home last night in a Sharan. New but horrible - bouncy, uncomfortable and bizarrely cramped for something so vanny. Why anyone who didn't regularly need the third row would want one is beyond me.
Yes, buy a Saab!
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Reliable and cheap is good. If you want to be inspired read a good book You will regret the Saab as a soon as you get the first huge bill.
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How much do you think the Galaxy might fetch? Assuming it still has some value if you offset that against the £3.5k ( or maybe less if the seller is biddable ) then that's the bottom line and assuming that difference is easily affordable then tickety boo. Either car could face a future bill I guess but can't they all? Feel lucky? If so, why not go for it?
I'm agonising about a ( well, another ) new bike at the moment. Trouble is, my wife really needs hers upgrading more urgently than I do...
Delicate matters these. If you have a new toy, be under no illusions, before long "she" will also need something expensive urgently. It's just the way it is...
:-)
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Just seen the ad. £3,500 seems steep for a 90,000 mile car that may be expensive to own. £2,500 max, I'd say.
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I tend to agree with your valuation, WdB. But it's in Camberley, and everything around here is overpriced at dealers. I haven't got the time to go fetching cars from Scotlandshire or Norn Iron.
Was thinking of offering 2.5, expecting to pay 3. I imagine the dealer gave 1.5k to buy the car and wants a 1.5k profit on that.
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>> Reliable and cheap is good. If you want to be inspired read a good book
>> You will regret the Saab as a soon as you get the first huge bill.
>>
My one big blocker to doing it, in a nutshell.
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Could apply to any old car, which is why it's critical not to pay too much. Would a V70 tick a lot of the same boxes (apart from the 9-5's superior rear legroom) while being better supported and having a vastly superior diesel engine?
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Yes. All the good ones are about 6k plus though.
I'm hoping to "cross-grade" in terms of money, rather than fork out too many more spondies though. I'm about 2 years from a point in time where I can look for something a bit newer/nicer in the 10k bracket.
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The SAAB 9-5 estate is about as inspiring as Duvet and its as reliable as Nigerian Email scammer.
I had the use of a 9-5 estate of that vintage, (a 3.0 TiD Arc) and did a lot of miles in it. It was a quiet comfortable ride, a little sluggish, but the driving position and seat was surprisingly uncomfortable after a few miles. It was sold for peanuts with 90k mile son the clock with shot power steering, a sludged engine and air con that didnt.
If I had a Galaxy, I would swop it for the SAAB in an instant. The frying pan is slightly more desirable than the fire.
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>> Reliable and cheap is good. If you want to be inspired read a good book You will regret the Saab as a soon as you get the first huge bill.
Sod the bill.
Just hope that the parts are still available.......
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>> Would you swap an ultra-reliable, cheap to run, no money needing to be spent on
>> it, but ultimately uninspiring, drives-like-van and irritatingly noisy, Ford Galaxy 1.9TDi Ghia auto, for this:
>>
>> Saab thing.
>>
Nah!
Not in a million years. I have never seen the attraction of Saabs.
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For what little this is worth I remember a good friend having given up his company car in the process of setting up his own business who decided to buy a 9-5 estate. He had been running around in an E class as his company car but thought he'd try a Saab as they were reputedly good and he could more readily afford it.
Like I said, horses for courses, but he just couldn't get on with it and in particular could never get properly comfortable in it ( gave him back pain ) so within 6 months he bit the financial bullet and got a 7 series BMW instead.
I've never even been in one so can't personally comment but I've had a couple of Volvos which others say are the epitome of comfort but I'm afraid they both crippled me.
Each to their own of course because conversely another friend has one of the last of the 9-5 estates ( 59 plate I think ) and he loves it.
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>> Each to their own of course because conversely another friend has one of the last
>> of the 9-5 estates ( 59 plate I think ) and he loves it.
I think you need to test drive one, and for at least half an hour. That way you will know whether you really want one. I drove a 2.0t auto for about ten minutes and my first impressions weren't favourable - the suspension felt woolly, the seats were not as good as I'd hoped and couldn't understand why the electric window switches were between the front seats parallel to the seat backs where you can't see them.
But it might have all come together had I driven it for longer, and on some motorways.
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A friend of mine bought a top of the range 9-5 which was 4 years old. Over his 3 years of ownership it cost more in repairs than the initial price.
And the garage may be doubling their money.
If you must take a chance, use a professional auction buyer and sell your old car through BCA's Sure Sell scheme. Why deal with a middle man in this price range?
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>>Why deal with a middle man in this price range?
Because it gives you some sort of guarantee if the car blows up within three months (which should be long enough to work out if it is being moved on as it's a complete dog).
Because the middle man may very well only be making £500 or less. Which for the privilege of having him find the car for you AND taking on the risk seems cheap to me.
But the 9-5 has a shocking reputation, doesn't it? Time before last I was looking for a car I thought 'I've always wanted a SAAB' ('always' has many different interpretations, but anyway...) and read a few reviews and rapidly rejected it.
Why a 9-5, A? (I expected this to be a Stu thread - cheap, revolting car lust. Instead he's just posted a thread about a *really* cheap revolting car he's lusting after.)
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Wed 24 Oct 12 at 21:30
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So then, if we are collectively warning Alanovic off ( well it seems that way ? ) If we were to pool the panel's opinions what should he be looking at instead do we think? Assuming I suppose, that the basic ingredients were where he wants to pitch things ( feel free to have your say too AV :-) )
Good, nice to drive, large estate, diesel auto. 3.5 bags of sand-ish...?
I know the answer but I'm not going to say it, really I'm not, but you know it makes sense...
( whispers, begins with an M and ends in O )
:-)
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Wed 24 Oct 12 at 22:44
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Or go Japanese. Honda Accord. Or Toyota Avensis I guess - but it didn't seem to have the following of the Accord.
I couldn't find a single nice word written about the 9-5 (apart from by people who hoped it came with the street cred of a 9000).
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Wed 24 Oct 12 at 22:47
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>> ( whispers, begins with an M and ends in O )
>>
>> :-)
Hes got a ford, it bores him rigid. Now maybe he might be invogorated by something out of left field. A Subaru of some type for example.
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>>
>> >> ( whispers, begins with an M and ends in O )
>> >>
>> >> :-)
>>
>> Hes got a ford, it bores him rigid. Now maybe he might be invogorated by
>> something out of left field. A Subaru of some type for example.
>>
Subaru sounds great. Where are all the diesel auto estates for 2.5K though?
Mondeo - had a mark 2 and it was easily the best car I've ever owned. But, been there, done that. I don't expect a mk 3 to be significantly better, so I'd rather try something new for the next 2 years.
The only other thing I think I'd consider other than the 9-5 is a Passat B5.5.
Nearly diverted to Camberley to take a look this afternoon, but ran out of time before school pick up. Might try a run tomorrow if the sun's shining.
Thanks to all for the comments/advice, both negative an positive. Food for thought.
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Yes.
I'm puzzled by the anti-Saab carping from some quarters here. At the risk of repeating myself, my 9-5 Aero estate is the most reliable car I have ever owned, and has most of the original parts at 9 years and 184,000 miles old, including exhaust, turbo etc. All the bits work - electric windows, electric seats etc. There's no rust. I'm not blinkered, they have their faults, but no more than most other european cars. If you're looking for problems, then googling will show up a lot of issues. If you google ANY specific car, you'll come up with a lot of issues.
Think about it. The marque loyalty rate is high. The cars virtues grow on you rather than hit you in the face. Those that feel the seats are uncomfortable probably need to spend a few minutes adjusting them, they're not reckoned to be some of the best in the business for nothing.
With regard to this specific car, it's not going to be a ball of fire. Nor will be it be top spec - Linear was the lowest of the trim levels. The 2.2 diesel is one of the most reliable engines in the range.
To all the naysayers: keep knocking the 9-5, it'll keep the purchase price down for those of us that appreciate a decent, long lasting car that will munch miles in comfort.
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>
>> Think about it. The marque loyalty rate is high.
So high they don't exist any more.
The cars virtues grow on you
>> rather than hit you in the face. Those that feel the seats are uncomfortable probably
>> need to spend a few minutes adjusting them, they're not reckoned to be some of
>> the best in the business for nothing.
Not my experience, I did thousands of miles in one. And yes I did adjust them. Clearly I am not alone in this view.
Mostly the best that people can say about them is that you can turn off the dash lights.
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>> >
>> >> Think about it. The marque loyalty rate is high.
>>
>> So high they don't exist any more.
Which is a pity, I though the last Model of SAAb looked really sharp.
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>> Thoughts?
Autotrader 'Performance & Economy' tab gives the 0-62 as 13 seconds, which seems a bit tardy. Might not be important of course; just would have expected it to be a bit quicker than that.
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If you fancy something like the Saab why not... it's not a fortune in the scheme of things.
Any larger/luxurycar these days can cost in repairs... Mercedes, BMW, VW, Japanese etc are not immune from issues.... even the Galaxy could fail in some expensive way tomorrow. It's all a gamble so just get what you fancy.
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I think I probably agree with you Fenlander. I've had for example, diesel Mondeos which everyone and their dog sucks their teeth at but been perhaps fortunate in never having had a moment's bother with any of them. I've had a Galaxy too by the way AV. I know what you mean. It does everything it is supposed to very efficiently but in a fairly uninspiring way. They do handle though, far better than they look as if they should.
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The car in the OP's ad sounds like it's been cared for, but it strikes me that the dealer is asking a very high price, ostensibly because it's a diesel? An unloved diesel engine I believe - isn't the old 2.2 meant to be rough and clattery?
I'd personally like to see a full leather interior at this end of the Luxo-barge market as well.
Aim to pay 2 to 2 and a half grand tops?
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I didn't comment on any of the Saab issues or its pricing as you can stress over that to the Nth degree.
Recently helped relatives to find a used car and they decided on a higher spec 2005 Peugeot 407. It's mint in a lovely light met blue with alloys and all the toys. Came from a one family owned private home and under 50Kmls for £2200.
So they've got an immaculate refined riding modern looking car for approx 10% of the new model price... so what if they get a bill or two.
It is interesting that despite having double the mileage of theirs the diesel angine and estate elements of the Saab add over £1K to the 407 price.
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...isn't the old 2.2 meant to be rough and clattery?
Not sure it's meant to be like that, Nick, but there is more than a hint of spanners-in-a-washing-machine about it. The post-2005 1.9 is nicer to know; the Volvo D5 is in an altogether different league.
I discounted both diesel 9-5s when I was considering one in 2006 and decided I'd rather have a 2.3t (lower case t). Saab 4-cyl petrol engines are very nice indeed. Should be very cheap to buy these days too.
Incidentally I found the seats great in my 9-3 and 900. Only ergonomic flaw was the rightward-offset steering wheel, which the 9-5 doesn't have.
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>> Autotrader 'Performance & Economy' tab gives the 0-62 as 13 seconds, which seems a bit
>> tardy. Might not be important of course; just would have expected it to be a
>> bit quicker than that.
>>
It's only 125bhp (can't remember the torque figures) in a big body, so it's probably about right.
The engine is not the greatest, but the 115bhp version in my manual old-model 9-3 pulled well enough - and yes, it wasn't smooth. It's better in the 9-5 with more metal round it, but nothing like the VW 2.0TDi which in the Passat (the only diesel I've had any recent experience of) feels virtually indistinguishable from a petrol.
Alanovic, if you fancy the idea, go try. Even if you don't buy it, you'll get a feel for whether it's worth the effort in seeking out a different/cheaper example. It's an individual thing, Zero seems as negative as I am positive about Saabs, and each to his own.
Last edited by: Mike H on Thu 25 Oct 12 at 14:09
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>> Alanovic, if you fancy the idea, go try. Even if you don't buy it, you'll
>> get a feel for whether it's worth the effort in seeking out a different/cheaper example.
>> It's an individual thing, Zero seems as negative as I am positive about Saabs, and
>> each to his own.
I think wildly disappointed was the problem, the loyal band of owners had spouted almost mystical qualities about their greatness, and to find out it was no better (in some areas worse) than a Mondeo was a real kicker.
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It's gone.
Best priced alternative here:
tinyurl.com/csttgcn
But oop north and no piccies.
Best alternative dahn sarf here:
tinyurl.com/ckhqk6g
But as usual for the region, overpriced.
Last edited by: Alanović on Fri 26 Oct 12 at 10:00
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Don't know why you bothered using Buckingham Palace's postcode.
You can leave all that bumf off the url so as not to include the postcode.
eg
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201242489373751
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201243490015085
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>> Don't know why you bothered using Buckingham Palace's postcode.
Cos I lives there loike, innit.
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Just about doable on a good day. But I'd rather avoid the 1.9. Far more "modern diesel" issues with that engine than the old tech 2.2, so I understand.
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You might want to try this guy www.markarnold.co.uk . Has a good reputation and only sells Saabs. No 2.2s at the moment, but his cars don't hang about long. Might be worth a call.
Last edited by: Mike H on Fri 26 Oct 12 at 13:09
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Lovely, but it's manual, they did not offer diesel auto on this generation of Accord. Same goes for the Avensis, and (much to my great sadness) the Mazda6.
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Ah, I see the problem, sorry I didn't pick that up.
This is the solution: tinyurl.com/8tqxpwt
(Sorry, it's in Cumbria.)
But this one is in Swindon. tinyurl.com/8wgurr9
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>> Ah, I see the problem, sorry I didn't pick that up.
>>
>> This is the solution: tinyurl.com/8tqxpwt
>>
>> (Sorry, it's in Cumbria.)
>>
>> But this one is in Swindon. tinyurl.com/8wgurr9
>>
Not really, the injection pumps on these can be problematic - also cam belt changes can be very expensive. Besides they are not particularly economical, so you'd have to be besotted with the V6 to buy one.
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>> tinyurl.com/8nfheeq
>>
>> Perhaps?
>>
Never seen Saab spelt like that before :-p
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nice looking Honda though.
a neighbour has a 60 plate Saab 9-5 estate. i think it says 3.ltr diesel on the back but could be wrong. sounds quiet and looks pretty cool.
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>> nice looking Honda though.
>> a neighbour has a 60 plate Saab 9-5 estate. i think it says 3.ltr diesel
>> on the back but could be wrong. sounds quiet and looks pretty cool.
>>
No, the 3.0 was dropped for the 2006MY due to issues with the liners dropping - it was an Isuzu engine from the GM parts bin.
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>> Never seen Saab spelt like that before :-p
SAAB cannot spell it themselves. I wouldn't fancy an obsolete car myself...
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Yes, MM, I think we've got the message.
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But its not obsolete, is it?
Out of production, for sure. And the spares situation gets increasingly worse.
But not actually obsolete, not yet at least.
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Get the Saab Alanović - bought a Saab when one of Espaces blew a HG, and not regretted it once. I've got 9-5 2.3 Aero at the moment, don't miss the 7 seats at all.
Incidentally MOT time's coming up for the other Espace, might be time to part company...
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Alonovic?
Sorry me old mate, my lad has beat you to it. He has dumped the Primera, and got himself a 51 plate SAAB 9-5 2.3 litre petrol HPT Auto. Its in good nick, gave it a drive, same old uncomfortable (leather) seats, and sloppy steering.
Motors tho, he stuck it some some dyno place nearby and third run its thrown out 236 HP
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Since enjoying the heated windscreen on the Galaxy dealing with the first frost of the year yesterday, I've decided I'll probably kepe the old boat for another 2 years, until it's cambelt time. I should be in a better financial position then and will probably look at getting a much more recent Volvo V70 or Skoda Superb estate. Probably.
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Careful, Vić - that's how I started out, and look what I ended up with!
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A Merc, right? Do they still make the E class estates with a 7 seat option? If not, when did they stop offering that? Volvo stopped with the V70 around 2006/07 with the facelift. Trying to get us all in to XC90s no doubt. Bah.
7 seats isn't an essential to me, but the missus likes the option. I don't want another MPV though, so I might just have to stand up for myself. Gulp.
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Yes, there are seven-seat versions of the S211. The first one we clambered on had the extra seats, which helped us (coming from a Toyota seven-seater remember) to decide that we didn't need them. The Beestlings jumped straight in, of course, but found it tight for headroom in there - both are about 1.50m - so it wouldn't have been useful for long.
You also lose the spare wheel and the useful lift-up hatches in the floor that facilitate carrying tall loads like plants. We were looking for a four-seat load carrier, so that was as far as we went, but if you did need the occasional option to carry a pair of 4-to-9-year-olds, it's a well-engineered solution. No luggage space, of course, when they're in use, but that's true of most seven-seaters, and this way the children's heads are further inside the crumple zone than they would be if facing forward.
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Still got a slight itch.
Does this look too low on its suspension to anyone?
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201246492327142/
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Comparing it to other pictures for similar cars on Autotrader, I don't think so.
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I've been doing the same, and yes, most of them look similar, but a few seem to be much higher. HJ says there are corrosion related problems with the suspension on these, so perhaps the majority are failing, and a few have been fixed?
Think this one would be a bit of a punt, but it's mighty tempting and only round the corner from me. A friend bought a Focus from this dealer a while back, and it's been fine - the dealer replaced the clutch FOC for him when it failed in the first week of ownership. This on a 1998 car with around 100k on it.
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>> Think this one would be a bit of a punt, but it's mighty tempting
Indeed - specs say 0-62 in 8.8, 141mph and combined mpg of 36; sweet. Although I bet the tyres cost more than the ones on your Galaxy, and presumably the insurance will be dearer - is it going to cost a fortune to keep on the road?
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>>Think this one would be a bit of a punt, but it's mighty tempting and only round the corner from me
I'm not sure its that much of a punt, to be honest. looks like a decent car with nothing much wrong with it. Might be a little pricey, but probably worth that to get it from a trustworthy dealer.
I'd go and have a look and a touch. If it "felt" right, then I'd probably buy it with a reasonable amount of confidence.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 14 Nov 12 at 12:57
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And someone who will replace the clutch on a 100,000 mile car he's sold is probably not likely to be the sort of person who would stick you with a car with a rust issue.
Judging the people in this situation is probably more valuable than trying to judge the car. Which I would guess is a vehicle that has been part-exchanged and auctioned.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 14 Nov 12 at 13:05
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You got shares in the dealership, No F?
;-)
The dealer site used to be a main Kia/Daihatsu dealership before Daihatsu pulled out and Kia went all posh like. It's got a decent workshop where they service/fettle the cars before sale. They specialise in cheapies, but don't usually have anything as swankamungous as an E320 CDI.
Hmm.
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Wish I did, Al, wish I did.
Hasn't that site changed ownership rather a lot over the years?
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Only comment on the Autotrader car is that some Mercedes interiors of this age in light grey, where everything inc the dash is light grey, can look a bit 1980 Nissan Bluebird inside.
Also, and I could be a mile off, but from the photos it looks like an intensively cleaned car inside.... could have started out grubby and uncared for.
What about this one, bit more money but even lower miles, one owner & looks a minter.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-Benz-E320-3-2TD-auto-2001MY-Elegance-ESTATE-7-SEATER-/261116087080?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3ccbbb4b28
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 14 Nov 12 at 13:32
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>> What about this one, bit more money but even lower miles, one owner & looks
>> a minter.
>>
>> www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-Benz-E320-3-2TD-auto-2001MY-Elegance-ESTATE-7-SEATER-/261116087080?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3ccbbb4b28
>>
Nice, but I haven't got the time or energy to make a speculative trip to Naaridge.
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HJ says there are corrosion related problems with the suspension on these, so perhaps the majority are failing, and a few have been fixed?
Be very cautious. Owners on the various MB clubs report welds on the front suspension turrets rusting under the factory applied sealant - and therefore invisible to normal inspection. The turret then collapses taking the front wheel into the wheelarch and possibly damaging the front wing.
Repairs done properly £££S.
And the front suspension crossmember has a design fault and water collects and crash...
And the car was poorly corrosion treated .
If you are paying good money, AA/RAC inspection seems a good idea. If little money, make sure 12 months MOT..
Last edited by: madf on Wed 14 Nov 12 at 14:29
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Certainly spend some time on the specialist MB forums before you take on one of these. The problems didn't end with the 210; even the 211 wasn't properly sorted till the 2006 facelift. If a car has lasted this long without giving major trouble that may be a good sign, but I'd still be wary.
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I've been to see it and I'm going to give it a swerve. It really does look too low on its suspension, I strongly suspect something's not right there. It was also very badly misted inside when I got there - I don't like that sort of thing at all. Perhaps that was the result of a really deep clean involving water though, as it does look very clean inside.
I checked the VIN number as per HJ's advice - no ZA present, meaning it's not one of the dodgy South Africa built ones.
But the suspension suspicion, I just can't get past it. This one isn't for me. There was a 60ish couple there at the same time to look it over, perhaps he'll sell it soon enough but it won't be to me.
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Good decision, Vic. I had the same initial reaction as you to the ride height, but then decided the tyres seemed to be parallel to the arches so perhaps it was OK; but when you know any problem is going to be an expensive one, you're right to be cautious.
I've had the extreme misting thing once with my 211, getting back into it when it had spent the evening in a puddly pub car park. It took two minutes of full AC demist to clear enough to see my way out but it hasn't happened since, even on wetter days.
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The more I think about it, the more I really want to get a Passat B5.5.
This:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201245491884158
Or this:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201236484401181
For example. ;-) Bit pricey, though.
Just love the simplicity to work on, reliability and power delivery of the 1.9TDi PD.
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No. I've no idea why they became unclickable when posted. Not intentional.
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>> I checked the VIN number as per HJ's advice - no ZA present, meaning it's not one of the dodgy South Africa built ones.
I would say he is talking out of his hat again...
IF you found a south African E Class in the UK, then I recommend putting a quid on the lotto..... they are so rare I have never come across one....
Now, IF you were talking about 203 C Classes, then that another matter.
Also, where did you get a ZA on the vin from?
I have NEVER seen a Merc with ZA in the vin.
The S.A. built C classes are recognisable by a WDC203*** 2R ****** vin, as opposed to a German WDB203*** 2A or possibly 2F vin.
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>> Also, where did you get a ZA on the vin from?
HJ
www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/mercedes-benz/e-class-w210-1995/?section=bad
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 15 Nov 12 at 15:43
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>> >> Also, where did you get a ZA on the vin from?
>>
>> HJ
>>
>> www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/mercedes-benz/e-class-w210-1995/?section=bad
>>
Like I said, I have yet to come across a S.A. built 210.
If/when I do, I'll let you know.
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Ever driven one of those Passats? It seemed the natural choice when I was company car shopping in 2002: big, solid, plenty of space all round. I tried one - drove it 200 miles in a day - and then decided to pay more for a Volvo that was a bit tight in the back seat and was - of all improbable things for a family with one toddler and a baby on the way - a saloon car. Draw your own conclusions about the Passat's ability to inspire enthusiasm.
On the other hand, my colleague who was shopping at the same time chose a Passat Sport estate, was thoroughly happy with it and bought it at the end of its lease term. It has excellent automatic wipers - but no LW on the radio, which is a serious failing for a TMS listener.
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>> Ever driven one of those Passats?
Yes, 2. Both 1.9TDi 130 auto estates. Really liked them.
I'm not in to "inspired" driving really (my fun car in the garage is a Volvo 360 for heaven's sake), and I like the way they ride and cruise. Love the mid-range oomph. We have a Mk4 Golf TDi 100 auto, and when I drive that (rarely), it makes me think "If only this were an estate, and bigger, and with maybe 130PS". I'm driving the Golf today. ;-)
I've no doubt an S60 is a lovely thing, I've been mightily impressed as a passenger. But I need an estate (dog plus luggage), and for some reason I just can't put my finger on, I can't bring myself to fancy a V70. I'm very familiar with them, my sister has an XC version. I find the front seats cramped and claustraphobic. Odd for a Volvo fan, but there you go. The Passat is much more comfortable for me.
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Jag estate maybe? I think they're becoming quietly cool. Can't say why.
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Nothing in my current budget in diesel auto, HDB. All start about 9 grand with under 100k on them. Ouchie.
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I had a Passat 5 from 2000 and it was a comfortable car. Mine was a 1.8T Sport which then only came on 15" wheels I seem to recall. Making for a more comfortable ride. Suspension was a bit soft and it wasn't the sportiest handling car but as I say comfortable.
The only issues that I had with it really were:
- a noisy turbo from brand new (it had a new turbo fitted) but the garage insisted the noise was the gearbox which I knew it wasn't... and so it had a new gearbox too but it didn't need it.
- door locks that didn't lock properly unless you deadlocked it - common fault on VW's at the time apparently. Sorted
- air bag warning light came on a lot towards the end of 4 years of having the car - I still think this was related to an accident I had but that's just a hunch... lots of return visits to resolve it.
All in all I quite liked that car - didn't put me off going VW again when I had the chance. There was a period when our company car list was more restricted.
And it had the Gamma radio which did do LW radio but you'd think it didn't because there was no indication of LW only FM/AM. But if you selected AM it would tune down to the lower frequencies.
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Thanks, rtj. Not overly bovvered about radios, as I'll install a DAB unit in to any car I buy now (6 Music and 5 Live are the only stations I want, most of the time). I've got a JVC DAB head unit in the Galaxy, I'll pull that out and reinstall the original Ford thing when I sell it.
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Mine was obviously the pre-face lift version so spec changed. But it was a solid enough car in my opinion. If you found one in Highline spec then they came with lots of options.
Prices on Autotrader for such an old car seem high though.
As for the radio. Mine had the Gamma radio with the CD autochanger in the boot. And a space in the console for storing things. Later cars had the CD autochanger in this space. I assume your JVC DAB unit is a single DIN unit in size so no problems fitting it but will it work with the CD changer if there was one?
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>> Prices on Autotrader for such an old car seem high though.
They do at first glance, as are prices generally for auto diesel estates, due to rarity and desirability these days. If you wants it you gots to pays for it.
>> As for the radio. Mine had the Gamma radio with the CD autochanger in the
>> boot. And a space in the console for storing things. Later cars had the CD
>> autochanger in this space. I assume your JVC DAB unit is a single DIN unit
>> in size so no problems fitting it but will it work with the CD changer
>> if there was one?
My JVC unit is not compatible with the CD changer in my Galaxy, and is not compatible with any changers come to that. But it doesn't matter as it has AUX IN and I can play music from my smartphone.
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>> My JVC unit is not compatible with the CD changer in my Galaxy, and is
>> not compatible with any changers come to that. But it doesn't matter as it has
>> AUX IN and I can play music from my smartphone.
If it's one of the JVC unit I'm thinking about it has a single CD player anyway. You could easily buy an aftermarket CD changer for a good price, but why bother when you have hours of music from an ipod, or indeed a smartphone. I have the same set up from a Kenwood player - best thing I've done to my car.
The problem with some of the cars now is that the ventilation controls are part of the same facia as the stereo, so a cheapish replacement facia won't work if you wanted to swap the original stereo for a DIN unit. You have to buy a complete new aftermarket facia with replica climate controls - as well as being expensive they can look a bit tacky. I have my eye on Subaru Legacys next year but to have DAB would mean buying an aux input kit plus an aftermarket DAB tuner, when I would rather just swap my Kenwood unit.
No problem with B5.5 Passats though.
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That dealer you went to to look at the Merc, what about asking him what he's seeing around for good prices?
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Yes, might be an idea that, next time I'm driving by, like. :-)
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Bit sort of "tweedy" though aren't they, Passats? You just can't imagine Steve McQueen in one can you? Somehow, he'd get ( have got ) away with a Saab. Your call of course !
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Thu 15 Nov 12 at 17:02
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As part of a joke advertising type thing... VW sent me a gift in the post when I had the Passat. Driving gloves.
When I was getting the Passat a few colleagues used to try winding me up about needing to get myself some driving gloves. ;-)
The only thing I've just recalled though... when I had the accident in the car it was off the road for a good few weeks. And I managed to get an Alfa Romeo 156 2.0JTS as a hire car instead (swapped a few over until I got lucky). The Alfa was so much more fun to drive than the Passat. The 2.0JTS engine was more powerful and achieved that without a turbo. A very nice (but small) car. The first few days back in the Passat when I got it back it felt a bit boring. Steering was never communicative, ride was soft, etc. Soon got used to it again.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 15 Nov 12 at 17:19
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One way to look at it is that if someone were to live until the age of say, 75, they would be alive for 657,000 hours. They, if they live in the UK, would not be allowed to drive for the first 148,920 hours. That leaves 508,080 hours to drive but they'll averagely be asleep for a third of that time so the maximum number of hours left is 335,332. Awkward things like work, family commitments etc will eat into that so lets say that accounts for 15 out of the 16 hours a day left to drive in on average. That only leaves 20,958 hours of driving in your life.
How many of those do you think it would be appropriate to allocate to the excitement of doing it in a Passat?
:-)
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Thu 15 Nov 12 at 17:39
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>> Steering was never communicative, ride was soft, etc.
I like those characteristics.
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>>And I managed to get an Alfa Romeo 156 2.0JTS as a hire car instead (swapped a few
>>over until I got lucky). The Alfa was so much more fun to drive than the Passat.
You want to try the 159 then, it's better.
I had a go with one not too long ago while evaluating potential fleet cars and this was just after trying a Mondeo. Now the Mondeo is often lauded for its handling dynamics. I found that the Mondeo was indeed good in that department, but at the expense of a slightly harsh ride. I mentally wrote that down as something one had to accept in exchange for taut handling.
The Alfa was as good, if not better, than the Ford for handling and had a ride like a magic carpet, proving that Alfas can still teach Ford a thing or two about suspension. Bonus was that the Alfa's interior made the Ford look and feel like some cheap Chinese knockoff. If it hadn't been for the fact that they rejigged the car list on me, I'd be driving one now.
Additional bonus; I happen to think it's the best looking mid-size car ever made and the only one where the estate looks "right" and the saloon an afterthought, rather than the more usual reverse.
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>Bit sort of "tweedy" though aren't they, Passats?
The staff at the customer site where I work are from all over Europe with a fair percentage being female. During the morning coffee break they commandeer the far end of the restaurant and generate large amounts of noise.
A few years ago, one of them saw me collecting a new parking sticker from reception and asked if I'd bought another car and what it was.
"A Jaguar XJ" says I, "Mrs K says it's an old fart's car."
Over coffee that morning they discussed and took a vote on what car they most associated with an old fart.
The winner was the Passat.
Last edited by: Kevin on Thu 15 Nov 12 at 20:49
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I think the Passat has got more old-farty since 2005. The latest, with its oblong everything, is vastly depressing*; Beestling Major and I tried one because we felt we ought to, but we couldn't get out of it fast enough. A friend even has one in extra-unprepossessing corpse grey. Yuck.
*Odd, when you consider what a stylish, feelgood motor the Skoda Superb estate is.
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>>Odd, when you consider what a stylish, feelgood motor the Skoda Superb estate is.
Well, I almost dare not mention it again, but that's, in part at least, how I find Mondeo estates, perhaps not the stylish bit but that more than compensated for by the feelgood factor.
No, not the plastic trim quality or the depth of the pile of the carpets but more the feeling of being in something very very capable when it's a dark night and you're a very long way from home and just want something to get you there safely, comfortably and with more than a modicum of driver involvement and pleasure.
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>> Odd, when you consider what a stylish, feelgood motor the Skoda Superb estate is.
But not the saloon/hatch :-)
I'd have considered the Superb estate instead of the Passat CC. But in similar spec/trim the Superb would have cost me more per month due to a higher BIK (higher emissions).
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>>>Odd, when you consider what a stylish, feelgood motor the Skoda Superb estate is. But not the saloon/hatch :-)
Even the estate could never be called stylish. The look is uncomfortable from the front, bland from the side and like some inflated 80s Japanese estate at the rear. Brilliant loadspace and interior look though.... look stunning inside in cream leather.
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Even the estate could never be called stylish.
It was, yesterday, by me. And I stand by that, especially when it's in a light metallic colour that isn't silver.
Tweed is tough, timeless and comforting. Old Land Rovers, Volvos and Mercedes estates are tweedy. Passats are just grey, grey, grey.
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>> Bit sort of "tweedy" though aren't they, Passats?
I'm a bit tweedy.
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>> Bit sort of "tweedy" though aren't they, Passats?
Giggle. Your opinion gels with mine.
I got a brand spanking new one as a swap out while my fleet car was in the shop a couple of years back.
I found that there was nothing to hate about it, even the 'leccy handbrake only made the "minor niggles" list, but nothing to like about it either. As I described it at the time; A shining monument to 6/10 adequacy in every department and the automotive equivalent of a provincial assitant Bank Manager clad in a grey, wool-mix suit.
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Nuts to consider this?
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201237485010125/
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Yes, nuts. Phew. Slight rush of blood to the head there.
But this..............
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201245491910804/
No sniggering at the dealer's name please.
:-)
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Why do my links not go hyper when I paste them in from my browser's url box?
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you need the h t t p : bit.
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Ah. Using Firefaults, it no givee http in boxy to copy. Thanks.
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Ah the Croma. A much under rated and ignored wagon that. I hired one in Turin a year or four back, and found it to be a jolly good wagon. Great value for money, and it was on my shortlist and was a toss up between the lancer and the Croma.
Not with that engine tho. You need to find the 1.9jtd version
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I like Italian cars. They always feel sort of Italian. Had a few FIATs and none of them broke but maybe I was lucky. Wish I could justify a Brera. I've got a leather jacket somewhere and everything.
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>> I like Italian cars. They always feel sort of Italian. Had a few FIATs and
>> none of them broke but maybe I was lucky.
I've had loads of FIATs, and none of them broke either. Even a Regata which busted its cambelt carried on regardless, with a slight tap from a bent valve.
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Yarss, I'm given to understand the cambelt is a biyatch on the 2.4. But I bet it's a lovely engine otherwise. Anyone know what the change interval is for the 2.4 cambelt? If I got a 1.9, I'd always be thinking what if...............
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>> Yarss, I'm given to understand the cambelt is a biyatch on the 2.4. But I
>> bet it's a lovely engine otherwise. Anyone know what the change interval is for the
>> 2.4 cambelt? If I got a 1.9, I'd always be thinking what if...............
What? Whats not going to go wrong on a more complex 2.4 diesel than a 1.9 diesel?
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Hmm, maybe.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201234482955131/
But I'd like a Prestigio with the skyroof if I'm gonna get a Croma. And I think that means 2.4 only. May be wrong.
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Or:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201236484039712/
I'm quite warming to the idea of the large executive hatchback, particularly the Vel Satis/Croma/Signum type shape (are there any others?), as opposed to the elongated hatchback type arrangement. Bit more estate like, better for bulky loads perhaps?
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biyatch
Is that the word Sanjay (or is it Alok?) in Fags, Mags and Bags keeps using? Honestly, I feel like a High Court judge sometimes with this young person stuff. I mean, what's this Gangnam Style thing I keep hearing about? They even had Tony Hawks do it on ISIHAC last week.
World's gone raving mad, Marjorie. Pass the marmalade.
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>>>what's this Gangnam Style thing
We're very much doing the Gangnam thing here....
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0
What's not to like?
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>> I mean, what's this Gangnam Style thing I keep hearing about? They even had Tony
Only one at work who knew of it was the boss. He's on #2 family and therefore has an 11yo AND young grandchildren so more in touch. Made use of it as an icebreaker when we had Koreans visit the office a couple of weeks ago.
My two know all about it but it just looked like some in joke between them.
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Re: Signum...
I quite like the car but the lack of a middle rear seat was an issue when we looked at them a while ago... didn't Humph have one at the same time as the Mondeo Estate?
Look at this (slow) moving gif that shows how the rear seats work.
www.vectra-c.com/forum/uploader/pics/pics1/Seats.gif
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Crumbs. Do they all have that arrangement?
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I thought they did... it's a bit gadget boy.
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I take it they don't even have a middle seatbelt for occasional use? Bit of a drawback, that.
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Why do you think it was never a success?
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What can a Saab do that a Skoda Superb can't?
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Street cred among badge snobs?
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...Appear on Alanovic's drive in exchange for the budget he has?
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Superb estate might be on the cards in two years time when I can afford one. For now, the only Superbs I can afford are saloons, which ain't no good to me.
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Ah. Something dodgy about that car/ad, or just wouldn't buy one of those generally?
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Well I'd certainly go an look at it. I'd guess its an auction car bought by a guy without respectable premises, but that's not necessarily a danger sign.
But there's something a bit off about the interior. From the appearance of the pictures it looks like the front console panels are not fitting together properly and the seats look wonky.
It could absolutely be the photo, which is why I;d still go and look. But it'd be a careful look.
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I said no without looking at photos or spec. These were the ones that were very prone to rust and other issues weren't they. Not as well built as MBs of old - or now. Bean counters got too much say.
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>> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201301024767209/
>>
>> Would you?
That does look like a nice example, you won't believe just how powerful that thing is, constant and surprising acceleration without a pause for gearchanges.
I'd question the seller about cars history over the phone, ownership as well as maintenance, its probably been serviced at an indy which IMO is better than the main dealers, certainly in my indies case, gearbox should have had at least one fluid change and is probably due another.
Interior of this one look reasonable, but check the steering wheel and controls for appropriate wear for mileage, one we looked had obviously been clocked.
E300D is simpler but obviously not so brutish, rust is the big enemy of the 210, check carefully round all wheelarches for signs of paint, peel back door seals and look, round the boot, but especially check the front cross member its a water trap and many owners put some washers between the plastic undercover and the cross member to allow water to escape, and check the front spring top cups where they are welded to the chassis water gets behind the underseal and they are known to break off...its not disastrous if they do as new cups are easily welded on but inconvenient.
I've sometimes considered one of these, they are relatively cheap, more roomy than subsequent models, and if you found a good one and had it professionally rustproofed could have a seriously good long termer for peanuts.
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yeah, I'd go and 'ave a butchers, careful one mind, in full sherlock mode.
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Yes, I would.
This is one of the last of the 210s, and I believe they had almost got on top of the rust-proofing by then, compared to the earlier ones. The original dealer sticker in the rear window suggests this one has been looked after - don't know why, it just does.
Still warrants a thorough look - 73,000 is low miles for a 11 year old diesel estate, and these Mercs can hide their miles well.
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>> The original
>> dealer sticker in the rear window
I spotted that also. Always gives me a warm feeling. It's a local dealer, too. And a localish reg number (H for Hampshire I believe).
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Here's another (quite different) chariot I'm thinking of checking out:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201212134612980/
Anyone know these?
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Not so different really, rather the French equivalent of the MB.
I don't know the answer, but it would be worthwhile doing some homework on who supplies the autobox and how reliable it is. Automatics aren't popular in the 407's home market, and I've learned to distrust French cars in export specs (the French 407 will invariably be a 4 pot diesel manual with as few toys as possible - even the radio and spare wheel are aftermarket extras on some models (to keep purchase taxes down, IIRC)!
407s were quite popular as fleet cars here in Ireland for a while, but mostly in 1.6 HDI manual guise for lower registration tax, road fund and benefit in kind tax to company drivers.
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>> I don't know the answer, but it would be worthwhile doing some homework on who
>> supplies the autobox and how reliable it is. >>
Aisin Warner, I believe (part of Toyota). The auto on our 2003 C8 2.0 HDi has been fine, but it is (simple) old tech compared to modern autos.
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>> professionally rustproofed
Now there's a thing. Where does one go for such services? I've oft googlized it, but never come up with anything concrete/local.
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>> Now there's a thing. Where does one go for such services? I've oft googlized it,
>> but never come up with anything concrete/local.
>>
I had our pick up done at Rustmaster Hatfield, sister site at Knutsford, and another company at Doncaster get good reports, a few others kicking about when i looked, Poole or Bournemouth rings a bell.
One of our flock is at Hatfield this very day having his MX5 treated, hopefully get his report soon.
One other thing about the 210 its not anywhere near as complicated as the subsequent 211 and 212 models.
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Cheers, gb. Your views are appreciated. I might just give this one a once over, but having read NF's analysis of the pictures, and whilst I don't see what he's getting at it made me look a bit closer - and it seems to me that the passenger seat is more heavily used/dirty than the driver's seat. Which is odd. Dog? Nah, if you get an estate, you'd put him in the boot. Cabbed? Well, punters are usually in the back. Odd.
Last edited by: Alanović on Mon 7 Jan 13 at 15:52
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Worn drivers seat replaced with a newer one? Which wouldn't be consistent with low mileage...
Looked to me as if the lower part of the dash (panels below steering wheel and to right of glovebox door) don't fit smoothly with centre console, as though they've been removed and not refitted correctly.
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Hmm. Maybe there's enough evidence to give this one a swerve. The seller isn't an established dealer with a pitch either, which puts me off a bit. Work from home sort of bloke.
This example is dearer and older, but somehow more appealing:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201212224712575/
Any thoughts, gb or anyone else?
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>> This example is dearer and older, but somehow more appealing:
>>
>> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201212224712575/
>>
>> Any thoughts, gb or anyone else?
>>
I'm not in the market for one of these, but this one looks a very nice example. The piles of paperwork are impressive!
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>> This example is dearer and older, but somehow more appealing:
>>
>> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201212224712575/
Why is it more appealing, the full write up?
I don't think its such a good buy as the blue one but then i haven't examined the pics closely enough to see the shoddy interior rebuild referred to, specsavers next week..;)
You won't know what the blue one's history is until you ring the geezer up and ask him, he'll either be vague in which case walk or it might just turn out to be a well maintained example, if he gives you the MOT number over the phone so you can look up its history that might give an idea of his credibility, or not if he won't.
Whichever car you look at i suggest the first thing you look at or find out about is what tyres the car is fitted with, a set of primelongs on a car like that and i'd be walking quickly away, something like that gives me a good idea of the servicing and quality of any other parts if the cars most important safety feature is the cheapest possible.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Mon 7 Jan 13 at 20:59
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>>and whilst I don't see what he's getting at it
Look at the picture of the dash & console taken as if from behind the drivers seat...
Look at the fitting of the panel beneath the stereo, particularly on the left hand side on the bottom.
Also look at the fitting of the flap below that and how it seems to meet up with the base, and then how that base meets the side wall towards the back.
Look at the fit of the panels around below the steering wheel and between the sidewall and the console.
It all just looked like it had been disturbed to me.
That could be simply a trick of the photo and therefore nonsense, it could be as simple as a bespoke music system replaced for sale, or it could mean the dash has been out.
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The Merc certainly looks tempting if it's a good one. Not sure I'd rush to buy a 407. Seem to think they had something of a reputation. Neighbour had a saloon one which I think gave him much grief.
I want to remember that you can, or could anyway, pay the AA to inspect a car prior to purchase. Might be worth doing something like that with the Merc if you fancy it enough.
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Looking at that blue Mercedes www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201301024767209/ brought back the feelings I had in Nov that those light interiors of that age look a bit 1980s Nissan Bluebird. The steering wheel should have been an exact colour match or black not dirty beige, the console air vents should have been black and the dash top black too.
Also pretty well every car suffers a turning point in its fortunes where its value and desirability drops drastically so they become £1k cars. I think those old estates have reached that point now and may be a better buy at £1200 for an interesting years running rather than that £4k price point where an expensive repair is a real dilemma.
The silver one looks better to my eyes as I prefer them in lighter colours and the grey interior is a little more bearable than the cream. Wouldn't want to pay £5.5k for one when many of similar age but higher miles are already under £2k.
Unlike Humph I'd take a look at the 407 estate www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201212134612980/.
In truth a more modern feeling/looking car than the Mercedes that would give a different slant on a Mondeo class car. I looked at them very seriously prior to buying the temp Alfa and it was a close run thing as to the Alfa or a 2005ish 407 diesel estate as a slightly longer term vehicle.
As mentioned earlier in the thread helped a relative buy a 2005 407 late last year. Mint condition attractive looking car in met ice blue with about 50k recorded... a petrol saloon for only £2200. I like them and they are on the shortlist still when the Alfa goes if we don't go for new again.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 7 Jan 13 at 18:45
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Looking again, that Merc is a bit of a pub landlord special. They used to run old Jags of course but they've just about got the hang of Europe now.
:-)
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>> Looking again, that Merc is a bit of a pub landlord special.
With a 'private' plate of course.
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There was one in Edinburgh who had 50 BER many years ago.
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>>There was one in Edinburgh who had 50 BER many years ago
Very good!
I only know the tla BER as "beyond economic repair"!
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Interesting that the blue Mercedes estate is listed on the classic car site at a level £4k...
www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C352432
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I'd view BOTH Mercs, to compare and contrast their respective conditions.
Those pale interiors may have had a real scrub-up which will also disguise the age/condition of the car
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>> Those pale interiors may have had a real scrub-up which will also disguise the age/condition of the car
Nick i agree except that rather odd grey steering wheel doesn't wear well in practice, anything over 100k and it will look dreadful as will the gearshift, neither is cheap to replace but if they have been they will look too new for the rest of the switchgear.
I don't think this model was quite as industrial quality as the 124 which as you rightly say, with a clean up (and a new drivers bolster) could easily look 50k when its really done 250k.
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The cream interior puts me off the blue one (naff), the price puts me off the silver one (too high).
Hmm. I'll probably think about this for so long that it becomes academic (i.e they'll get sold).
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Oo. www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201211094171725/
Bit far away from me to pop in and peruse, however.
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Very nice, but £4k? Really?
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Gets what you pays for. Hopefully.
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>>>www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201211094171725/
Have you driven anything like this in recent times? You will either like it or not like it at all and never look at another. Those old school MB estates are quite 1970s in feel.
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Seeing as I own and drive a Volvo 360, something feeling a bit 70's shouldn't be a problem to me!
With the W124s, I like the idea of it, but you're probably right, they're maybe a bit too lumpen in performance terms, in diesel, estate, auto format.
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I'm assuming the Galaxy replacement will be used as a main family car?? There is a place for these old MBs but as time goes on they make more sense for an occasional/3rd/enthusiast car as, AFAIK, GB uses his.
The truth is modern cars have become very good and make more sense for a daily drive. You've already said above the Mondeo was the best car you'd owned and something of that type may be more suitable.
i.e. an estate Passat/Mondeo/Vectra/9-5/Mazda 6/Accord/Avensis etc etc.
I have to say I'd far rather have a £4k Mondeo Ghia estate on the drive than any of the Mercedes linked to.
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You make an excellent point, and a Mondeo would be a fine car. But I've had one. There is a nice 9-5 I've spotted (www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201301034772716/), but it has similar power and performance figures to the Galaxy (I'd not touch a 1.9 with a barge pole, which also rules out Vectras), and I'm after something that will not just be a good daily driver, but will give us a bit more grunt, and bit more luxury, a more comfortable ride, and a bit more peace and quiet on a long continental summer holiday drive also. All the Japs you list fail to offer a diesel auto at my current budget point. Passat? Much likey, but I'd want a more powerful, quieter engine than they offer, and a TC auto not a DSG (had one, not nice for lots of town driving, which I do). So VAGs are out (no way I'm touching an Audi with Multichronic).
Big old Merc is starting to look like the only option, and the bonus is that 7-seaters are available. Mondeo a close second in the reckoning, but again, nothing out there with more than the 130bhp engine in diesel auto spec priced under 6k.
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>> >> Looking again, that Merc is a bit of a pub landlord special.
Not in these here parts. They are mostly driven by scatty old birds in "country" clothing, you know, paisley silk scarves, horsey green sleeveless Barbour jacket thing, mad hair, with a bootful of large, filthy, but generally harmless dogs.
>> With a 'private' plate of course.
Just noticed that the silver one's existing number plate starts with my initials. I think I might have to discount the car for that fact alone, I wouldn't want anyone thinking I'd gone and bought a prat plate because I was ashamed of the age of the car.
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Here's an option which will no doubt cause palpitations in some corners of this darkened place:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201212054517177/
Tempting at 3k. I understand they ironed out the problems in the 2005 facelift, and these later examples are fine.
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>> Here's an option which will no doubt cause palpitations in some corners of this darkened
>> place:
>>
>> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201212054517177/
I had one, great car
>>
>> Tempting at 3k. I understand they ironed out the problems in the 2005 facelift,
Only with the engine, the gearbox will be on its way out and the electric's will be falling apart.
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Ah. I presumed the story about them being sorted post-2005 covered the electrics. Are the autos in-house boxes made by Renault?
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The later Laguna is supposed to be a much better car even though it's not everyones cup of tea looks wise.
Whether this is still holding true I don't know. I kind of like to think it is but Renault always seem to go and spoil it again. The coupe version is lovely.
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>>Here's an option which will no doubt ...
Oh dear God no, please no, just don't ! Buy the Merc for goodness sake or better still a Mondeo !
I may have to go for a lie down.
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Re Lagunas.
When my recent bargain car search was looking a little thin on the ground one thing that kept catching my eye was a tidy 2003 Laguna estate in the village garage as a trade sale... around £850 cash would have bought it. I drove past it a dozen times over a week and kept thinking I was daft not to stop and look.
But then I remembered that in the past Lagunas and Espaces were the only two cars I've known bring folks to despair and financial ruin. Forget the jokes about Citroens and Alfas... these were in a different class for bringing misery.
On the flipside a knew a few folks with mid 90s Meganes and they were sound bread and butter cars.
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I see that new Renault sales tanked 40% in the UK in 2012. Forty Percent!! Say no more! People have cottoned-on to their quality.
The next Saab/Rover, when the French government eventually stop underwriting them??
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It is no surprise that Renault sales are down 40% when they culled about 40% of the model line-up.
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- Not sure that makes sense, BB?! Presumably they only culled the non-sellers in their range to focus on the supposed better-sellers?
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Anyone know if this car would have a TC auto or the dreaded Multichronic CVT? The advert calls it "Tiptronic", so perhaps these cars had a TC auto, as opposed to the CVT in the normal A6? If so, I might be tempted with one of these.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201211224336832/
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 10 Jan 13 at 11:21
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I don't know about the gearbox but if you follow the reader review link on the autotrader page you will get an insight into the running costs of the air-suspension.
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Yarss. It seems whichever way I slice, any of the options I have threaten major maintenance expenditure. Except the Mondeo.......but I'm after a wafter, and I can't see a 130bhp Mondeo estate being enough of a wafter to make the change worthwhile.
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>> but I'm after a wafter, and I can't see a 130bhp
>> Mondeo estate being enough of a wafter to make the change worthwhile.
Sorted - www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201301034776058
:)
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Good grief, I'd love that. But it doesn't quite tick the diesel and estate boxes.
;-)
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>> Sorted - www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201301034776058
>> :)
Seen some bad haircuts in my time, but thats a crew cut!
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>>> can't see a 130bhp Mondeo estate being enough of a wafter to make the change worthwhile.
That Scorpio's not a wafter it's a bloater.
Alanović I wonder was that Mondeo you've had before a 2001-on diesel estate?
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I'd have another M3 Mondeo estate in a heartbeat. If I needed such a thing. Probably the best cars I've ever had in many ways.
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>> Alanović I wonder was that Mondeo you've had before a 2001-on diesel estate?
>>
Nah, a 1998 S-reg 1.8LX petrol estate (manual). Purple it was. Niiice.
I do keep coming back to this ad and sucking my teeth.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201212194681035
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My last but one Mondeo was that colour. My wife described it as Danimac beige. However, it was a very very good car despite that.
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I believe the correct term is Jewish Racing Gold.
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>>>1998 S-reg 1.8LX petrol estate (manual). Purple it was. Niiice.
I know many folks who really liked that era of older Mondeo but the next model on is a huge leap forward. I reckon a 2003-2006 Mondeo estate really is the best car available of its age if you exclude prestige makes... and it comes close to many of those for comfort and driving pleasure.
Particularly impressive are the large usable area of loadspace and the rear seats have more legroom than most (much more than my newer C5 for example).
So I reckon you haven't quite done Mondeos if you haven't had a Mk.3
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I'd buy this if I didn't need the finance at the moment.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201244490781703
163bhp nowadays. That's more like it.
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Do you know in a way I like the Mk.3 models more. Anyway if you popped over to see that gold one there is this on the way to look at as well...
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201211174275284
Edit and that's the way to do a light leather interior... black dash, light seats/carpets and lower trim.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Thu 10 Jan 13 at 15:13
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Well that one's in Newmarket, bit of a trek for me. The one I posted is much closer to me in Bisley (Slurrey), shame as I try not to cross the border to the badlands.
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One of our reps who decided to opt out of the company car scheme bought a 59 plate Mondeo Zetec diesel auto estate at the auctions about 6 months ago. 100k miles on it at the time in fairness but he's put another 25k on it already with no bother. Think he paid about £5.5k from memory. Nice car.
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>>>bought a 59 plate Mondeo Zetec diesel auto estate at the auctions about 6 months ago. 100k miles on it at the time... paid about £5.5k from memory.
That was the sort of price that would have tempted me to buy my 59 plate end of lease C5 but they wanted nearer £8k hence letting it go. Price mainly due to the fact I'd kept the mileage to little over 35k.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Thu 10 Jan 13 at 15:18
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Actually that looks rather nice despite my reservation over certain aspects of their size/shape. Properly done interior colour too.
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That silver one's nice too. My most recent one was silver with black leather. I liked that combination. Tend to agree with Fenlander on preference for the Mk3s. Seriously good value now and with for me anyway, the added benefit of a chain cam engine. Comfy as can be, handle well and on my straw poll of one, very very reliable. Swallow loads and you can drive them all day and the following night as well without a twinge. Mine was a manual which would be different economy to an auto of course but even with nigh on 200k on it 45-47 mpg was easy to achieve. I miss mine some days.
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The only problem I had with my silver Mk.3 was getting into the wrong one in a store car park and frightening the woman to death who I'd not noticed sitting in it. Take any car park and there's always a good selection.
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>>Take any car park and...
Heh heh !
We were doing a trade show at the NEC once and I'd arrived late. I abandoned the car in the first available car park at the exhibition centre and rushed to jump on a shuttle bus. Anyway, at the end of the day I was blowed if I could remember which car park I'd left it in.
After what seemed like an eternity wandering around the now emptying car parks I was challenged by a security patrol who had obviously decided I was behaving oddly.
When I explained myself they became willing to help and asked me to describe my car,
"well, y'see, it's a silver Mondeo..."
"ah, right, well we have had a few of those in..."
:-)
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So the old 130bhp 2.0TDCi is chain cam, and the more recent 140bhp and 163bhp incarnations of the 2.0TDCi are belt cams? I had thought it was the same engine in different states of tune. Was I wrong?
Chain cam sounds interesting now..............
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Yep, the new ones have belts. Work of the devil belts are !
:-)
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>> So the old 130bhp 2.0TDCi is chain cam, and the more recent 140bhp and 163bhp
>> incarnations of the 2.0TDCi are belt cams? I had thought it was the same engine
>> in different states of tune. Was I wrong?
>>
>> Chain cam sounds interesting now..............
So does the fragile DMF, iffy injectors and fuel pump.
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Not on mine they weren't but hey...
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Indeed, but many cant say the same. You have to look at the DMF as a 100k mile service item.
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How many though really? I've had three of them and run them to big miles with no DMF problems and the same guy I mentioned upthread who's now got the new model also had 3 Mk3s with no problems. He sold one of his with 228k miles on it without ever having any DMF or injector problems. In fact the only thing he had to replace at 200k + was the back box on the exhaust and the only thing I needed on mine was a little rubber exhaust hanger strap which my local Kwik Fit replaced free of charge.
Not saying "some" people haven't had issues but when so many vehicles have been fitted with the same engines one might reasonably tend to hear more about the ones which went wrong as opposed to the ones which just did what they said on the tin. Bad news tends to travel more quickly than good.
Anyway, just my experience like I say. People can believe what they like of course but I'd buy another one without blinking if that was the type of car I wanted. Guess everyone has to make their own minds up about these things.
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>> How many though really?
Well put it like this, I know of enough to put the Mondeo Diesel off my buy list, pity really they were / are good value.
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But do you have a view of what percentage of them are/were affected ? Your answer is, with all due respect, somewhat statistically vague. At least my comments are based on personal experience of 3 cars and 3 further of those belonging to my friend, so that's 6 vehicles with that engine run to big miles with no problems. One would have thought that if this was a high risk that at least half of those would have suffered that failure wouldn't you?
Anyway, I think I'm losing interest...Beating head against brick wall syndrome I fear.
Look, here you go, you're right, you're always right, I should know better. Humble apologies...
:-)
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I have knowledge of 6, and three had DMF's fail at between 98k and 130k, and two had new pumps/injectors needed.
Now that was enough for me to not to include one in my buying list, I wouldnt dump such good value for money without good reason.
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Ah its an auto, didnt check, dunno. dont think it does.
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>> Does an auto have a DMF?
No.
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Thanks, Manatee. So injectors and fuel pump are the major risks. Not exactly the scariest list I've ever seen. There is no one model out there with a zero risk rating at my price and age point.
A challenge for Zero: come up with a model, buyable for about 4k, must be a large estate car with an autobox and diesel engine, with a less scary list of potential failures than the Mondeo. Betcha can't!
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Buy the mondeo then. Its not my money at the end of the day now is it.
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No. Yours went on a petrol Lancer, undoubtedly a less scary potential problem list with those. But I want a diesel auto. I'll have to take the risk of bills whatever I buy, the Mondeo is probably the lowest risk choice. Not that I've decided anything yet.
And I'll take your reply as admission that you can't meet the challenge I (lightheartedly) set.
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Tee hee ! It sort of reminds me of conversations I used to have with my old mum when I worked for a German employer. She simply wouldn't accept that some of them, in fact most of them, were actually alright. Couldn't really blame her mind. Her experience of them was somewhat different to mine...
:-)
Hope you find something to suit AV. You'll know when you see it I guess. I usually do anyway...
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>> But I want a diesel auto.
And by doing so, you shoehorn yourself into a little cul de sac of very limited choice of models and makers in your price range.
But thats your choice and you take the increased risk that brings. "I want" has a price.
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>>
>> >> But I want a diesel auto.
>>
>> And by doing so, you shoehorn yourself into a little cul de sac of very
>> limited choice of models and makers in your price range.
I was thinking the same. Besides, the autobox on the Mk3 Mondeo is also a weak point, OK if you factor in a rebuild around 80k. I don't know if Ford improved them on the Mk4.
Going back to a Saab 95, if you were to choose a petrol auto, there would be a great choice, and the auto is a decent Aisin Warner unit. Economy shouldn't be too bad on long runs.
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>> "I want" has
>> a price.
>>
You don't say.
Never mind about DMFs, I'm after an automatic. And never mind petrol. I want a diesel because I want loads of mid range torque for overtaking Renault 4s on French motorways. And because I'll be doing quite a few long drives in France with it, where diesel is lots cheaper. And because I fill my car on a company diesel card when in the UK.
So I will be getting a diesel auto, same as my Galaxy is, which has over 100k and has never presented me with a large bill. No mythical Ford autobox failure at 80k, nothing. Worst things it's needed are an electric window regulator and motor, and the front ARB drop links. But then it does have an old VAG TDi PD engine, so anything I replace it with which is not powered by that engine will carry higher maintenance cost risks. Hey ho. I understand that. I suppose what I'm saying is that I agree with AC in his thread about spending 600 quid on his Cruiser, despite my initial response to him, which was more born out of a dislike for those Cruisers really.
V70 would be great, but again look at the list of potential big problems listed above. Doesn't come close to the Mondeo in terms of robustness, does it? Doesn't mean I wouldn't buy one if the right one turned up at the right price though. Bit like this, but it's a bit dear:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201212134609494/
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You buy the Mondeo, please.
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See, I can't now, because I can't risk giving you the satisfaction of laughing your socks off when the injectors fail!
;-)
Anyway, tempting though they are, I'm still not convinced they offer the waft and luxury elements I'm after. But I'd have to try one to know, I accept that.
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>> A challenge for Zero: come up with a model, buyable for about 4k, must be
>> a large estate car with an autobox and diesel engine, with a less scary list
>> of potential failures than the Mondeo. Betcha can't!
BMW E39 530d auto. If you found a decently maintained one. Great for distance work. But you run the usual risk of modern diesel foibles just like everything else, bar the old VAG PD engines.
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>> >> A challenge for Zero: come up with a model, buyable for about 4k, must
>> be
>> >> a large estate car with an autobox and diesel engine, with a less scary
>> list
>> >> of potential failures than the Mondeo. Betcha can't!
An old Volvo would be on my list
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>> >> >> A challenge for Zero: come up with a model, buyable for about 4k,
>> must
>> >> be
>> >> >> a large estate car with an autobox and diesel engine, with a less
>> scary
>> >> list
>> >> >> of potential failures than the Mondeo. Betcha can't!
>>
>>
>> An old Volvo would be on my list
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201301074814944
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>> >> >> >> A challenge for Zero: come up with a model, buyable for about
>> 4k,
>> >> must
>> >> >> be
>> >> >> >> a large estate car with an autobox and diesel engine, with a
>> less
>> >> scary
>> >> >> list
>> >> >> >> of potential failures than the Mondeo. Betcha can't!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> An old Volvo would be on my list
>>
>> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201301074814944
>>
But not that one...Geartronic is the worst of the three gearboxes Volvo offer. Check the OC website and that's the one you'll most likely have problems with.
The advert states FSH, there's a lot more needs doing than the standard servicing.
You could end up sinking a lot more money into that car on top of the purchase price:
DIM, rear brakes, top engine mount, gearbox as prevously mentioned, belts and tensioners, coolant expansion bottle, intercooler, engine pads.
You'd want Morse and Clouseau on that one before parting with your cash.
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 11 Jan 13 at 08:22
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The old 130PS TDCi engines were related to the engine in the Transits. The newer ones may still be badged TDCi but they were co-developed with PSA and are totally different engines.
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>> Comfy as can be
As long as you have the Titanium X seats like yours, or the Recaro's in the ST220. I drove a 2.0 Zetec and the seats in that weren't nice at all, although the handling was ace for a big car.
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I had the Ghia X, the titanium x is so, sort of, arriviste...
:-0
Actually, they didn't make those 'till later !
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I had a Ghia.... seats were not comfortable for us. Always felt like you're sitting on them and not in them - if that makes sense. The Mazda6 was much more comfortable with it's sport style seats. The Passat CC I have now better than the Mazda6 even. But not a fair comparison.
I think I know what my next car will be.... probably 18 months before I order one.
Another question Alanovic must have asked is what large estate cars are available with diesel and a TC auto. Besides BMW and Mercedes, that probably leaves few options. Some will have CVT's. So:
- larger capacity engined Audi estates (A6)
- Toyota Avensis
- Ford Mondeo
- Vauxhall Vectra/Insignia/Signum?
- Saab 9-5
What else should he consider? And older Audi A6 might be nice.
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>> Another question Alanovic must have asked is what large estate cars are available with diesel
>> and a TC auto.
Yes, TC preferred option.
Besides BMW and Mercedes, that probably leaves few options. Some will
>> have CVT's. So:
>>
>> - larger capacity engined Audi estates (A6)
Too expensive. Has to be a 3.0 to get TC not Multichronic. They hold value well and aren't cheap enough yet. Or an Allroad 2.5 V6, which I already mooted, but has the probable massive suspension bill awaiting.
>> - Toyota Avensis
No diesel autos until 2009, so still too expensive
>> - Ford Mondeo
As discussed
>> - Vauxhall Vectra/Insignia/Signum?
Vauxhall. Hmm.. Would consider Insignia, but still all a bit pricey although coming in to range soon. Vectras are vile, Signums seat only 4. Latest Astra estate in 160bhp form lifts an eyebrow, but still too dear.
>> - Saab 9-5
Discounted. 1.9s are too dodgy, 2.2s won't give significant benefits over my current VAG 1.9 TDi PD.
>>
>> What else should he consider? And older Audi A6 might be nice.
Would have to be 2.5 V6, but these are not thought of as very reliable and have a very expensive cambelt change. If I could find a low miles, cambelt just done, under 4k example it'd be a contender. But those are rocking horse poo. And I think they went Multichronic from about 2003.
Last edited by: Alanović on Fri 11 Jan 13 at 10:16
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Wafty at a price? How about a Citroen C5? Dunno if they're any good mind !
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Yes, that's not a bad suggestion. Would have to be the old shape at my current budget though, and HJ's assessment of their (lack of) robustness is somewhat sobering. New shape would be dandy, but pricey.
Another thing which niggles me is DPFs. Most of the year, I'll be driving in town rather than motorways, might not go on a motorway for a couple of months sometimes.
Gah. Galaxy, why do you have to be so noisy and bouncy????
Maybe I'm over Rattling this pudding, and just need to pee or get off the pot.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 13 Jan 13 at 03:24
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Well sometimes "the devil you know" etc. Your Galaxy might not be perfect but it seems to have served you well enough. Maybe it would make some sense to keep it a while longer until the car specific piggy bank is fatter?
I had a Galaxy back along. 1.9 Zetec on a W plate. Good car actually. The wretched Espace was its replacement. That thing was my worst ever car decision.
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You could be right HDB, I may end up doing that.
The seller of that silver E Class has knocked 500 off the asking today.......and I've got a buyer for my Volvo 360 at my asking price of £2k.........collecting it next Saturday.
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Ah now then...may I be the first to welcome you to the LEC plutocracy !?
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Here you go, waft around in this, I think you two are ideally suited.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201246492292041
Edit, whoops sorry you wanted the auto - here you go
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201245492069914
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 11 Jan 13 at 10:34
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Moi? In an SUV? Nurse, the smelling salts!
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>> Another thing which niggles me is DPFs
The Euro III diesel in the Mondeo MK IIIs obviously do not have a DPF. But the Euro IV engine in the Mondeo MK III didn't need a DPF to meet Euro IV emissions either. I know because I had one in October 2003 when they came out - I hung on to get one of the first to get the lower BIK (no 3% charge for being a diesel). The MK IV will have a DPF.
However, my Mk III Mondeo needed two EGR valves, the lock on the tailgate broke (would not latch/lock), the front suspension bushes needed doing (so suspension needed dropping apparently). The clutch failure at approx 40k miles was partly my fault - hill start on very steep Red Bank near Grasmere a year or so earlier when the car was very full of people and luggage... eventually it was slipping a bit.
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>> I had the Ghia X, the titanium x is so, sort of, arriviste...
>>
>> :-0
>>
>> Actually, they didn't make those 'till later !
Yeah sorry Humph, that's the one, couldn't remember - it's been so long since Betsy got the push :)
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No i can't stand this Mondeo is the Saviour society.
Have you test driven a Diesel Mondy three yet AV?
Thank goodness it isn't going to be a manual, having driven several Mondeo 3 Diesels in the past couple of years i'm totally underwhelmed, whats to like?, the things are simply horrible.
Massey Harris tractor engine rattling away, they stall at the drop of a hat unless you give em a bootful of throttle and then risk the dainty clutch and flywheel, gutless till you reach a certain rev band then whoosh off we go, front wheels on the verge of slipping, clouds of black smoke and even clumps of soot coming out the exhaust...for a whole 3 seconds till you need the next gear.
Ride is awful, no other word for it, wouldn't give you a thankyou for one.
Thankfully the auto should be almost bearable to drive and no second rate clutch/DMF to destroy in normal use, so thats a small mercy seeing as half the car has to be dismantled to replace the thing.
Diesel Focus was about as endearing.
I expected better from both judging by the salivating praise heaped on them by the motoring press and on forums like this, even toyed with picking up one of the company cars when outed cheaply.
Then i drove them, wouldn't have one for free.
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>>Massey Harris tractor engine rattling away, they stall at the drop of a hat unless you give em a bootful of throttle and then risk the dainty clutch and flywheel, gutless till you reach a certain rev band then whoosh off we go, front wheels on the verge of slipping, clouds of black smoke and even clumps of soot coming out the exhaust...for a whole 3 seconds till you need the next gear.<<
Driver error.
Pat
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>>they stall at the drop of a hat...
Eh? I'm fairly certain I never stalled any of mine. Easy to pull away on the diesel torque. Maybe if people do stall them that's what does for the flywheels?
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How old would an A6 have to be to have a TC instead of a Multitronic? I tried a 1.9 PD A4 in 2002 and that had Multitronic, so I'd expect the A6 with the same engine to have it too.
I think Volvo's Geartronic has always been TC, though, even in the D5 V70. But I think Vic had ruled out the V70 as too expensive. I've not looked but I'd expect £4,000 would buy something with the pre-2005 D5, which is reckoned to be the one to have for durability anyway. The D5 is hugely better as a manual, but that's just my experience.
As for a DMF being a 100,000-mile service item, so what if it is? Mine cost me £1,600 at 114,000 miles - unwelcome, perhaps, but still a fraction of my fuel savings over that distance compared to a 2.0T petrol. Accept that it might be necessary, don't overpay for an ageing diesel and budget for the job. What's wrong with that?
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>> As for a DMF being a 100,000-mile service item, so what if it is? Mine
>> cost me £1,600 at 114,000 miles - unwelcome,
Yea really unwelcome, so what if it is nearly half the price of your newly purchased second hand motor.
Thats what.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 10 Jan 13 at 20:42
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So...
...read the rest of what I wrote. That's a shoddy piece of selective quoting, Z.
All that matters in the end is what you pay altogether, and what you get for your money. Proportions of anything are neither here nor there.
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>> So...
>>
>> ...read the rest of what I wrote. That's a shoddy piece of selective quoting, Z.
>>
>> All that matters in the end is what you pay altogether, and what you get
>> for your money. Proportions of anything are neither here nor there.
No its not a shoddy piece of selective quoting, you are ignoring my point which is perfectly valid in this thread.
One purchases a 4 grand diesel car, and two months down the line one gets caught with a bill for nearly half the value of the car. Are you really saying "i will pay 4 grand for this car but I know i will have to stick 1600 quid in the bank to keep it running this year? Get real. Half the value of the car is not, repeat NOT a justifiable expense in anyones book, no matter how white you try to paint it.
Where has one manged to get the savings to justify that expense, having only had the car for two months? How many more "cheap diesel miles" do you need to recoup that money? the car will be down the scrapper before that happens I wager.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 10 Jan 13 at 21:16
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At this age/budget, if I were the OP I wouldn't be looking at diesels at all. Must be far more petrol estates to choose from, at lower prices? Who cares if you drop 5 or 6mpg.
Are there any V70s with the 2.0T 5-pot around, or the 2.4T? Silky smooth, and 170-odd HP IIRC?
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>> Are there any V70s with the 2.0T 5-pot around, or the 2.4T? Silky smooth, and
>> 170-odd HP IIRC?
>>
Yes, lots, and with FSH.
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HJ once told me that even the "experts" buy crap 10% - 15% of the time.
So us mere mortals are clearly going to get hurt at least that much. (more because we know less, but less because we're not so cut-throat).
So what matters if how much it will cost me to own that car for as long as I wish to own it and use it as I wish to use it.
If I am happy to pay £4,000 over two years, why does it mater how that money is spent?
I buy a Mondeo with a super-duper warranty for £4,000
or
I buy one for £2,000 and have to cough up £2,000 for bits that went wrong.
Is there a difference I am failing to see?
I always buy older cars and factor into the purchase price what I think maintenance and/or repairs are going to cost me. And then i buy or don't on the final figure.
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>> I buy a Mondeo with a super-duper warranty for £4,000
>>
>> or
>>
>> I buy one for £2,000 and have to cough up £2,000 for bits that went
>> wrong.
>>
>> Is there a difference I am failing to see?
Yeah, your super dooper warranty does not cover a DMF., So that 4 grand plus 1.6 grand.
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Don't be a tit, you got my point.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 10 Jan 13 at 22:19
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your point is not valid. The car market is not based on "price minus what might go wrong"
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 10 Jan 13 at 22:23
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I have no idea what you believe the apocryphal "market" is based on. I'd always felt that what people were prepared to pay was involved somehow.
I buy or do not buy depending on what I believe the cost of ownership is likely to be.
It would appear that you ignore the cost of ownership and take the purchase price with the reliability figures.
Your choice of course, but I think that after due reflection I'll keep on with my approach.
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>> I have no idea what you believe the apocryphal "market" is based on. I'd always
>> felt that what people were prepared to pay was involved somehow.
>>
>> I buy or do not buy depending on what I believe the cost of ownership
>> is likely to be.
>>
>> It would appear that you ignore the cost of ownership and take the purchase price
>> with the reliability figures.
Not I do not, and for that reason I dont have a second hand Mondeo on my drive quietly waiting to chew up its expensive dmf, I have a very mundane uninspired simple Japanese car because I planned cost of ownership, so do credit me with a bit of sense that I have proved I have. You also have to accept that most of the car buying public are not like me. I am merely trying to covey that sense to others. IE buy a second hand Diesel Mondeo at your own risk.
Take your Mondeo you wish to buy . You have 4 grand. There is a nice one with just under 100k miles on it for 4 grand, in perfect nick. Ah you say but it will lunch its DMF so i will only offer you 2,500. Sod Off I say i can get 4 grand for it, and that happens everywhere I go. So I look for a 2.5k mondeo knowing I can invest 1.5k on a new DMF. Except of course they are all sheds at that price, and who, in their right mind is going to buy a 2.5k car keeping 1.5k back to spend on maintenance on it - It dont happen - it just does not happen.
Get in the real world for Christ sake, I am afraid you live in some kind of bubble.
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I don;t know why you stick to some ridiculous point by simply avoiding what people say.
>>Ah you say but it will lunch its DMF so i will only offer you 2,500. Sod Off I say i can get 4 grand for it, and that happens everywhere I go
So then I wouldn't buy it, would I? On the other hand, if I could buy it for £2500, then that would seem a reasonable deal?
So is your point that its a daft approach to be sneered at? Or simply that because you're not very good at either bargaining or obtaining a bargain, you prefer to think that none of the rest of us can either ?
>>Get in the real world for Christ sake, I am afraid you live in some kind of bubble.
The real world where you can't get a bargain, or the kind of bubble where I can?
I would have thought that you would know by now that allowing the buyer to dictate the terms, including price, is only worthwhile where something is in short supply. And Mondeos are not.
But like I said, buy it anyway that works for you, its your money so you should choose your own approach.
And stop getting so worked out about how others choose to do it.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 10 Jan 13 at 23:10
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>>
>> So is your point that its a daft approach to be sneered at? Or simply
>> that because you're not very good at either bargaining or obtaining a bargain, you prefer
>> to think that none of the rest of us can either ?
Oh wtf - whatever.
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>> I would have thought that you would know by now that allowing the buyer to
>> dictate the terms, including price, is only worthwhile where something is in short supply. And
>> Mondeos are not.
Isn't that 'where something is in plentiful supply'?
Reason being that the buyer can move on to another car if their asking price is not met?
Last edited by: corax on Fri 11 Jan 13 at 16:43
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Naah, I meant Seller, not buyer. Sorry.
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>> Naah, I meant Seller, not buyer. Sorry.
No worries. Great thread by the way, and AV still no closer to his dream jalopy.
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...I buy one for £2,000 and have to cough up £2,000 for bits that went wrong.
Or, as someone may have said recently - ah yes, it was me, but Z neglected to quote it:
...don't overpay for an ageing diesel and budget for the job.
In other words, an old Volvo is worth, say, £4,000 if the DMF has been done, or £2,500 if it hasn't. And if you're contemplating buying one, you should know that. Curiously, mine's had a DMF and an intercooler (£350) and is still probably worth no more than £1,500, but do I envy the owner of the grey Lancer I walk past on the way to the gym? Possibly for his pension but not for his car.
};---)
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>> ...I buy one for £2,000 and have to cough up £2,000 for bits that went
>> wrong.
>>
>> Or, as someone may have said recently - ah yes, it was me, but Z
>> neglected to quote it:
>>
>> ...don't overpay for an ageing diesel and budget for the job.
read my reply above. You have to pay what the market is selling at if you want it. If its too cheap its a shed. And its sheer stupidity to spend 50% again of the purchase price of a car on immediate maintenance. Specially when you can buy a car that wont need that outlay.
>In other words, an old Volvo is worth, say, £4,000 if the DMF has been done, or £2,500 if it hasn't.
Except of course its not is it. You never ever ever recover the cost of maintenance when you sell the car. Specially not 50% of the value of the car. If you dont believe me, look at autotrader.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 10 Jan 13 at 22:55
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>> If its too cheap its a shed. And its sheer stupidity to spend 50% again of the purchase price of a car on immediate maintenance. Specially when you can buy a car that wont need that outlay.
Calm down girls! ;>)
May I point out my KIA cost fifty quid five years ago and I've just forked out as much again for a scrapyard gearbox, more on a 3-piece-clutch and nearly half as much on oil and seals etc.
Any car's worth as much as you want to spend on it.
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Pretty sure my mate's Mongdeo DMF was only about £900 all in when it died
:-)
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>> Any car's worth as much as you want to spend on it.
>>
Exactly!
Which is why, I'll either carry on buying sheds I can afford to throw away, when they go wrong, or, when I can afford to, buy a new car (with a long warranty(Hyundai!!)) and keep it until the warranty is nearly up.
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>> >> If its too cheap its a shed. And its sheer stupidity to spend 50%
>> again of the purchase price of a car on immediate maintenance. Specially when you can
>> buy a car that wont need that outlay.
>>
>> Calm down girls! ;>)
>>
>> May I point out my KIA cost fifty quid five years ago and I've just
>> forked out as much again for a scrapyard gearbox, more on a 3-piece-clutch and nearly
>> half as much on oil and seals etc.
>>
>> Any car's worth as much as you want to spend on it.
No its not its still only worth whats in the fuel tank.
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>>>having driven several Mondeo 3 Diesels in the past couple of years i'm totally underwhelmed, whats to like?, the things are simply horrible.
I genuinely puzzled by that opinion. It makes it hard to think how I could ever convey what any particular car would be like to run (in terms of forum conversation) when our views are so far apart on what is quite a fair baseline vehicle to start with.
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I'm puzzled too Fenlander. I know GB has driven or at least moved more cars than I've had hot dinners but I've owned or had the use of over 40 different ones now and hired countless others and the Mondeo 3s are without doubt, in my personal experience anyway, right up there among the best of the lot.
To describe them as "horrible" seems a very odd assertion.
Guess we're all different.
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I've driven lots of cars i wouldn't touch with a barge pole, automated manuals for example and those with electric handbrakes, though some people like them and there's clearly a market for them.
The thing that got me about the Mondeo's in particular is that i expected better, i've read so many opinions here and elsewhere suggesting they are The basic default choice, and i was disappointed, not just me either.
So, knowing that our company cars get sold cheaply, or did, i sort of toyed with getting one as a general hack.
The reality of driving them disabused me sharpish of that idea, and left me amazed that they should be so well liked by so many, yes its clearly me, maybe i do have unusual tastes in cars, also lorries if it comes to it.
What you have to remember is that much of my private motoring is on Northants pot holed and ruined urban roads, i found the Mondeo most unsettled, certainly not a patch on the comfort and driveability of my now 17 years old MB, and not as competent overall as say an Avensis of similar age and mileage as the Mondy's in question.
This is my opinion i don't expect anyone else here to share it, luckily we all like and dislike different things.
If i was covering long distances on open securely surfaced roads then maybe Mondy's strengths would have shone through, as it is i'd have almost any other similar car in preference.
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I sat in a Mondeo a few years ago, and that was enough for me.
An off-the-cuff remark I hear you say but, I've owned over 40 cars and driven c10,000 in the line of my work.
I didn't like the Sierra either come to that, unless it had a V6 engine under the hood.
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UPDATE: Mrs A has veto'd the Merc option. Apparently, she wouldn't want to be seen in something so ostentatious, even if it's an old one. No accounting for wimmins I suppose, but I do share an inkling of that reservation.
So.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201212074540642/
This is probably what it'll be, but this particular one looks like it's had a hard life of towing, going by the dings around the tow hook area.........
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That looks alright AV. Would that one have a traditional auto box or would it be an early DSG? Might be a tad dear for an 02 maybe? Not sure.
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B5s have a proper auto, DSG came along with the new B6 shape in 2005/6. There are a few of that newer shape about at low prices, but the DSG puts me off. I also think that VW build quality took a dip at that time, looking at the two Tourans we had. The 2004 one was nticably higher quality than the 2008 one. For Golfs and Passats, 2001-2005 is where it's at, IMHO.
The one I linked to has obvious signs of trailering abuse, dented boot just below number plate and missing paint in the bumper. Would trailering have an effect on the longevity of a TC auto gearbox, I wonder? I'd rather this one, but it's in Yorkcestershire:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201301044783252/
Oh, and it's got leather too, which is a no no for me really. Don't like it in hot weather.
Last edited by: Alanović on Mon 14 Jan 13 at 11:44
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>> The one I linked to has obvious signs of trailering abuse, dented boot just below
>> number plate and missing paint in the bumper. Would trailering have an effect on the
>> longevity of a TC auto gearbox, I wonder?
I'd bet it would
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>> For Golfs and Passats, 2001-2005 is where it's at, IMHO.
I would agree with that too.
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What about this... www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201212174645863
Worth putting up with hot summer leather as it looks superb in that colour. Private sale which I regard as a plus. A V6 TDi too or are you against them?
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Haven't checked for a while, but I know certainly quite recently the V6 TDI unit had gained itself a bit of a reputation for fuel pump failure and maintenance costs well out of whack with the market segment of the cars it was used in. The timing belt for example is a ludicrously complex and expensive job. The engine also struggles to return much more than low 30's in mpg terms as well.
Refinement aside, I would suggest the 130 PD is a better engine in every respect.
Last edited by: DP on Mon 14 Jan 13 at 12:06
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I think you've got it right there, DP. I could add a van Aaken smartbox to a 130PD and take it over 150bhp too (I'm related to Mr van Aaken himself, and can get them at a bit of a discount).
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When the PDI unit was available up to 110PS then the 2.5l V6 with 150PS might have been attractive. But when the PDI got to 130PS then I don't see the advantages for a car of this age.
I would think the engine in these being longitudinal makes the belt change more difficult? But that's just trying to figure out why they are expensive.
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>> I would think the engine in these being longitudinal makes the belt change more difficult?
>> But that's just trying to figure out why they are expensive.
The front end of the car has to come off, and there is very specific method and tooling required for timing the fuel pump.
About £1k at a dealer
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It's worse than I thought, then. Thanks, I'll avoid and stick with searching for a 130.
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>>>The front end of the car has to come off, and there is very specific method and tooling required for timing the fuel pump.
>>>It's worse than I thought, then. Thanks, I'll avoid and stick with searching for a 130.
Isn't it true of all Passat diesels regardless if 4 or 6cyl so still an issue with the 130??
Wonder how long you want to keep this car... more than one 60k (assuming?) belt interval?
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 14 Jan 13 at 12:58
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>> The front end of the car has to come off,
Standard practice for VW group cars then?
Complete front had to come off Toledo to change the rad, and the entire interior including the front seats had to come out to change the heater rad which appears to be the primary item the whole car is then thrown together around.
Barge pole.
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I had an accident in a Passat 1.8T and the front needed straightening etc. New bumper, bonnet and wing too... a while ago . Anyway not only did they have to take the front off (understandable for the damage) but the engine had to come out as well!
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That is a very nice one, F. Leather still puts me off though. I'd consider the 2.5 V6 if it's just had a cambelt done, as they are very expensive on that engine. About £600 I think I've heard. Or if it needs a cambelt, he'd have to accept about 2.5k. I'm guessing that the seller's after 3k for it, so 2.5k with it needing a cambelt would be fine.
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Here's a good 'un (but with the dreaded leather):
www.popeswoodgarage.co.uk/used-cars/volkswagen-passat-1-9-highline-tdi-130-4dr-tip-auto-binfield-201302498371832
Competition time: look at image 10. What's that in the boot? I've no idea myself!
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Good thinking. That would be a very stupid place to put one of those. You'd never get a flat load area with the seats down.
That'd be out in a flash under my ownership if it is a changer - cassette adapter plus Nokia N8 phone for music and DAB radio.
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I suspect its not original fit.
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Even for an aftermarket, it's a stupid place to put it. There are cubby holes behind the interior panels in the boot where it would fit, just like the (now redundant) one in my Galaxy.
The head unit for the CD changer is an original VW unit. Curious. Might go and have a nosey this week, see if the stink of leather isn't too repellant. Mrs A is very sensitive to the smell of car interiors, she won't countenance leather, or a brand new car for this reason. Can't stand the smell. Prefers cars which have been smoked in, kills the "new car" smell.
Last edited by: Alanović on Mon 14 Jan 13 at 14:02
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>> I suspect its not original fit.
I reckon you're right. It looks like an aftermarket CD changer. Looks exactly like my old one, and situated in the same place. The lighter coloured piece of plastic at the top slides across and you press a button to extract the CD drawer. And yes it's not the best location if you're carrying stuff all the time.
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>> Its the CD changer.
I don't think so. When I had the pre-face lift Passat, that came with the same Gamma radio and the changers were in the wheel arch space in the boot (passenger side). The same arrangement was on the Golf I had before it. Made changing a bulb difficult!
When they facelift the Passat, the put the CD changer in the centre console. TheY moved the aircon controls down into the space that was below it and fitted the CD changer in between the radio and aircon controls. But it looks like this has a separate CD player and not changer (the Gamma radio controls a changer itself!)
So I don't know what is in the boot! But it does look like a changer doesn't it.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 14 Jan 13 at 14:16
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>> But it does look like a
>> changer doesn't it.
I'm not sure. Looks to be an irregular shape. The other ones I've seen are a pretty uniform box shape. This thing's got some nodules or something on it. Someone's made a hash of something somewhere if it's a changer. Plus, where are the wires?
Last edited by: Alanović on Mon 14 Jan 13 at 14:32
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In that case we dont know, and if you want to find out you'll have to go and look at it.
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I'll give that a try this week, maybe tomorrow.
In the mean time, a bit more Sherlocking for you:
www.southseamotorco.co.uk/used_car_volvo_v70_estate_10612.htm
I was very keen on looking at this to start with, then I looked more closely at one of the pictures and I groaned heavily and rolled my eyes. Virtual pint to the first person to tell me what it was that put me off.
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Flat tyre or the state of the LH side of the console?
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Yes, the tyre, but not just its flatness.
What's up with the console? You've got a thing about those!
EDIT: Ah, right, I see the scratching now. Wonder what did that? One careful lady owner, I'd bet on a handbag with some great buckles being slung over from the driver's side. New panel wouldn't be too much of a problem from a scrappie.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 29 Jan 13 at 00:52
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Thats not scratching, thats wrinkled tape, looks like the whole section has been covered in it.
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Now that's just weird, Z. Why on earth?
Back to the tyre - it's not just flat. It's a flat Wanli.
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Also the handbrake is way high. I'm guessing that brake maintenance has not been a significant feature of its recent life.
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>> Also the handbrake is way high.
Good spot.
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>> Back to the tyre - it's not just flat. It's a flat Wanli.
>>
i'd be backing out by now, what care was used when selecting oils brake parts etc if the most important part of the car was chosen with such attention to initial cost.
I really thought it was the DOH number plate putting you off, couldn't get the pics big enough to tyre spot.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Mon 14 Jan 13 at 16:26
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Number plates are an odd one, GB. I once bought an Alfa 33 whose last three letters were "DUD". Ha, thought I. I am no superstitious fool. I shall ignore it. I bought it, and the next week, whilst on my way to a garage to have a cambelt change, the cambelt snapped in the outside lane of the M25 and took the engine with it. Bang. Paid £1500 for the car, got 500 quid for it from an Alfa specialist in Southampton.
It was, indeed, a DUD.
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>>What's up with the console? You've got a thing about those!
Actually, yes I do. Its the bit that I find always gives away the use and care of the vehicle that sellers never seem to do anything about.
I always look to see if they fit well, if they match with the rest of the dash etc. etc.
In the case of this one, not only is that piece quite dramatically scratched, yet the scratches end suddenly at the end of that panel. They don't carry on to the next panel. Now why is that?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 14 Jan 13 at 15:58
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>> yet the scratches end suddenly at the end of that panel. They don't carry on to the next panel. Now why is that?
Makes you wonder if the other panels etc were replaced but not this bit. And we'll never know the answers.
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>> >>What's up with the console? You've got a thing about those!
>>
>> Actually, yes I do. Its the bit that I find always gives away the use
>> and care of the vehicle that sellers never seem to do anything about.
>>
>> I always look to see if they fit well, if they match with the rest
>> of the dash etc. etc.
>>
>> In the case of this one, not only is that piece quite dramatically scratched, yet
>> the scratches end suddenly at the end of that panel. They don't carry on to
>> the next panel. Now why is that?
Because its tape. I suspect the console is split. The last split console I saw was in my Laguna, my knee smashed it to bits while I was busy writing off the whole car. It may also be damage caused by a mobile phone holder fitment. (or some other piece of kit)
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>>Because its tape
Maybe. But I suspect that its not.
Thing is, like all cars, you have to go and look.
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He won't, so we'll never know.
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Well I probably won't go to Portsmouth to look at something with flat Wanlis, no. I just posted it for fun. You remember that from your youth, right?
I had a look at one of the E Classes I fancied earlier, was put of by suspiciously saggy suspension and extreme interior misting. One of the Passats I'm interested in is in striking distance, I am going to try a lunch time mission tomorrow. Sadly, I'm not retired and have a young family to ferry around, so opportunites to view cars are limited. Would have gone today if it hadn't been pelting with snow. Too dark now.
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>> Well I probably won't go to Portsmouth to look at something with flat Wanlis, no.
>> I just posted it for fun. You remember that from your youth, right?
Oh I still do, thats why I want you to buy a Mondeo.
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>> thats why I want you to buy a Mondeo.
>>
Hee hee. Sadly for you, I'll take a Passat over a Mondeo if that's the choice.
BTW, I went to look a the SAAB I orignally started this thread about (it's no longer on sale). It struck me as not special enough to take the punt on. I expect that was because it was a base spec example though. So I do occasionally go look at motors, I even sometimes buy them (30 of them in 26 years so far suggests a decent record at looking and deciding).
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>>>> thats why I want you to buy a Mondeo.
>> Hee hee. Sadly for you, I'll take a Passat over a Mondeo if that's the choice.
So would I. I had a Mondeo and a Passat before it. The Passat was the nicer car. It didn't have good handling and wallowed a bit if you what I mean. But a very comfortable car. The Mondeo Ghia was nowhere near as comfortable - over a long journey (say 4 hours) it gave my wife back ache. Got a lot further in the Passat without such a problem.
The Mazda6 I got after the Mondeo was good too. Okay it had a DPF that needed you to keep an eye on oil levels and could you trust previous drivers? No could I.
The Passat of this age might suit you in non-DPF PDI form. Don't go above 130PS spec engine and the 115PS was probably acceptable too.
All my own opinion that others will disagree with. Especially for saying the Mondeo MkIII was not comfortable for us. Humph's with GhiaX seats might have been.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 14 Jan 13 at 21:21
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You mentioned the tyre brand put you off. You also spotted the handbrake being high which would make me think those rear shoes have broken apart giving the excess movement at the lever. Must fix or £1000 stub axle when the whole lot locks up on the move.
I'd also be curious why the top hose is rubbing under the bonnet. Why has it been moved ?
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>> Competition time: look at image 10. What's that in the boot? I've no idea myself!
>>
Hmmnn...Incredibly stupid place if it is a CD changer (& it does look like it). First Aid Kit (with velcro)?
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>>> yet the scratches end suddenly at the end of that panel. They don't carry on to the next panel. Now why is that?
OK so it doesn't matter now the car's off the list but that console panel defect is exactly the look you get when an area of protective clingy film is left on from new and gets damaged over the years.
What's depressing is that these £3k-£5k cars have so many issues to spot in the ads without even viewing.... enough to make you give up looking.
I know it makes the search harder but I'd spend a bit of time waiting for a private sale. Oddly the private sale cars seem better "prepared" than many dealers ones.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 14 Jan 13 at 19:10
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I see your point, F, but I like the idea of having a measure of comeback, even if it's SOGA, when using a (reputable) dealer. Although this private sale looks good, mind you the miles are higher than I'd ideally like and it's too far away from me for a quick shufty (70 miles):
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201301084839683/
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That private Passat is a great example of what I mean. It is £1100 cheaper than most traders would want and at least you get to meet the guy who actually knows when the cambelt was last done. That £1100 saving allows you to get it serviced, pop on a couple of tyres or whatever's needed while still keeping £800 or so in the bank for unexpected issues. If you wanted to rely on others to fund breakdowns you could even buy a 3rd party warranty for around £300 and still have £500 surplus over a dealers price.
Looking like you are over a wide area the chances of any one dealer you find being decent are slim.... and if you do think dealer backup/warranty is important remember any issues may entail a 100ml round trip to return the car for repairs. Buy privately and take on you own liabilities then the trusted local man can do any repairs out of purchase price savings.
Also there will be no difference between a 95,000ml car you are happy to buy and 118,000ml car that seems high mileage to you. If mileage worries you keep to under 40,000mls... once they've done 70,000mls+ there are so many other factors to judge on than the speedo reading.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 15 Jan 13 at 10:19
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You make a very strong case, F.
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Well the weather forecast has temporarily kyboshed the sale of the 360. It's going to an enthusiast in Holland, and we had arranged to meet at Harwich this Saturday evening for him to ferry the car back home. But I'm not taking any chances with this predicted heavy snowfall, a drive from Reading to Harwich doesn't sound much fun in those conditions and I stand a good chance of getting stuck, or delayed. And the east coast seems to be pretty bad already. So we've moved the collection to next Saturday in anticipation that the weather will be better.
This means any Galaxy replacement will have to wait till I've got the funds from the 360 sale in the bank. I'm keeping my eye on the various Passats I fancy on autotrader, but this wibbled my thrustlepouch today:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201232481263328/
Never thought I'd consider one, but it looks a bit of a bargain.
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......and it "drives superbly", not "superb", so that's a plus point for the seller ;-)
Am I the only one who uses little signs like this to gauge the advertiser?
Last edited by: Mike H on Wed 16 Jan 13 at 16:01
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No, you're not. I do it all the time and reject any advertised car which has obviously not been prepped for the photos, has poor quality photos, or the blurb is written in poor English. If the advert is shoddy, then it's highly likely the seller isn't too worried about his motors being shoddy either Goes for private and trade, with a bot more leeway on the photos for private sellers as a trader should know how to do it.
Can't fault this particular Beemer's advert, really.
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Too right. The effort put into sale preparation should be matched by the effort to write a good advert and photograph the car properly.
Could not care less = heap of junk in my view.
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And, of course, my last post was deliberately riddled with errors, just to prove how much I care.....
;-)
Last edited by: Alanović on Wed 16 Jan 13 at 16:28
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Actually that BMW looks quite nice. Priced well too even against private sellers. The recent brake work is a bonus. I think silver with the black leather and woody bits looks good. Shape will date more quickly than a Mondeo/Passat etc.
Don't forget to factor in the BMW style driving course cost though.
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Plus point for that BMW is it must be one of the very last of that shape - the next model, which I prefer despite Banglization, came in for 53 plates.
This one is not as roomy as the E classes you have been looking at, and would there be too much badge for Mrs A?
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>> would there be too much badge for Mrs A?
Yes, thinking about it there probably would.
Academic for the moment anyway, till I can get that Volvo to Harwich. Of course, the forecast is nothing like as biblical now for that area, but better safe than sorry I suppose.
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>> Actually that BMW looks quite nice.
If you do look at it make sure that the autobox is working perfectly. Although it's generally a good box, they can fail around this mileage without warning. £1100 for a rebuild.
Also make sure the cooling system is healthy - radiators start to leak after 8-10 years, they bow out at the bottom, water pump and electronic thermostat can go. All the parts are reasonable cost though.
Swirl flaps can break up and be ingested by the engine - that model will have them, some don't. Some specialists offer a removal service.
With a large German car like this especially at that age you really need to keep a budget aside to run it. They are strong cars but they are not a Lexus. And you have the high mileage diesel question marks. I would go for a 530i petrol - bombproof engine if serviced properly.
I know I suggested 530d but it was a challenge that you set - I didn't think you would seriously start looking at them :)
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>> If you do look at it make sure that the autobox is working perfectly. Although
>> it's generally a good box, they can fail around this mileage without warning. £1100 for
>> a rebuild.
That can go for any auto transmission in reality. If you wants an auto (I do), you've gots to take that chance.
>> Swirl flaps can break up and be ingested by the engine - that model will
>> have them, some don't. Some specialists offer a removal service.
Why are there any swirl flaps at all if they aren't needed? 1.9 diesel GM/FIAT units have these and are said to often cause big bills too. That's one of the things which puts me off the Vectra/9-5/Croma. Sad to hear BMWs suffer this problem also, wasn't aware of that.
>> I know I suggested 530d but it was a challenge that you set - I
>> didn't think you would seriously start looking at them :)
I'm prepared to open my mind and consider "prestige" brands this time, in order to get the comfort, quiet and ride quality I'm after. Sadly, Mrs A remains an unreconstructed inverted brand snob.
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 17 Jan 13 at 10:10
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Well things may be about to take an interesting turn. A proposed change in my working environment may be about to entitle me to a "business needs" company car. So I'm certainly not going to change the Galaxy right now, in case this comes to fruition.
I've been thoroughly jealous of company car drivers for years, and have yearned to join the ranks of those who can pick the model of their dreams, brand new, and have someone else pay for it, and the vast majority of its running costs. So much excitement and anticipation built up in me. What will I choose, what will I choose! Oh, the delicious agony of choice!
Then I saw the list of choices I would be presented with.
Renault Megane.
Vauxhall Astra.
Gah. At least I'd be able to have an estate, but possibly not an automatic. Bubble burst.
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On the bright side though, neither of those should be too steamy on bik. Both will be comfortable enough and as you point out, worry free financially anyway.
Gift horses / mouths etc...
:-)
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Yes, I appreciate that Humph. In reality I'd be delighted with either (in fact I secretly quite fancy the Astra Sport Tourer).
But neither are of the size I would prefer (large family car, Mondeo size). But as you say, gift horse and all that. Maybe if I get one I'll shift the wife's Golf and force her to drive the Galaxy around...................
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A friend of mine opted out of the company car scheme when offered one. She prefers to continue running her 10yo IS200 and get 40p mileage...i think.
I appreciate that is not always possible.
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>> A friend of mine opted out of the company car scheme when offered one
But Alanovic mentions business need - you get a car and not an allowance or anything when it's business need in my experience. Usually business need means you do enough business miles to justify one because it would save the company money.
The other category is usually benefit cars and you usually get the option of taking the money and the choice is usually better. Our business need list is pretty basic - most would probably get a Skoda Octavio from the list of available cars.
And not wanting to burst the bubble Alanovic, often it's the case of taking a car available in the fleet. When it's end of lease you then get to choose your own. To tempt people into doing this where I work, you get a virtual increase in car grade to let you get one two grades higher without paying towards it.
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That's right rtj, there would be no other option than the company car list or mileage allowance. In my case the car would work out to be better value than taking mileage payments.
I'm warming to the idea of the Astra, Mrs A is warming to the idea of the Renault. Of course. She says - Vauxhall, not enough badge. Renault, about the right amount of badge. I think Renault, Peugeot, SEAT and VW are the only brands in her narrow range of badge amount acceptability.
But if this choice does come to fruition, I'll choose the Astra or the Megane depending upon which I prefer driving. And, if one has DAB and the other doesn't, then that'll be the choice made for me.
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 14 Feb 13 at 09:48
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Look at it this way - it's the best way to enjoy a Renault!
I know you really wanted a 4x4 :-(
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A Citroen Cross Dresser is appealing, as I said before..............
I'm going soft.
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A girl who works for us has just got one of the new Astra estates. It's bigger than I'd have imagined. Might do you very well. Megane might look nicer maybe but Renaults give me the shivers. They may of course be fine now...
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SAAB 9-5 - I've got that flaming itch again - No FM2R
