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Like the recently discussed Volvo, it's another new model with stop / start technology.
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interesting choice of lowering compreesion on the diesel and increasing on the petrol.
would this enable the deisel to rev faster and higher?
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>> interesting choice of lowering compreesion on the diesel and increasing on the petrol.
>> would this enable the deisel to rev faster and higher?
I think it's to reduce combustion noise. Lower cylinder compression and a higher pressure, multiple-phase fuel injection cycle produces a quieter combustion process.
Last edited by: DP on Mon 8 Oct 12 at 13:43
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Lower compression normally means more boost - probably what they have done.
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>> another new model with stop / start technology.
They all are now, aren't they?
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Nawt new Dave - My 1960 Morris 1000 had that, the "button" was starting handle shaped though ! :-)
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My lambretta had stop, never start.
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I used to have to run with my Vespa, then simultaneously jump on and let out the clutch. The kick-start was useless.
The Auto Vap moped I bought from a colleague for £8 was much better:
www.autocycles.co.uk/autocycles/autocycle_066.htm (Thankfully mine wasn't this colour)
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In the style (sic) of the NSU Quickly. Great on the track for us kids you know. Couldn't afford Bug all else. Hardly even that to be truthful.
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Most of the new cars I hand over have got it. More to the point, most of the receiving drivers have previous experience of the system and don't need it explaining to them.
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>>Most of the new cars I hand over have got it.
Dave. Can the stop / start be permanently disabled on some of the cars that you deliver, or do they all need disabling at the start of each journey, as on the new Volvo?
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There is a stop/start cancel switch on all of them (marked with the letter A with a circular arrow looping around it). The system resets every time you turn the ignition off, so if you really hated it then yes, you would need to cancel it every time you start the engine. The stop/start system has to default to the active mode to allow the car to qualify for a lower CO2 rating, hence a lower BIK tax band.
I can't understand why there's such negative feeling towards stop/start, it's completely unobtrusive in operation. If you never engage neutral and release the clutch when sitting in traffic, you'll never experience it anyway.
One reassuring fact I point out to the recipients of new cars so equipped is that they have an uprated battery and better charging system as well as many sensor inputs to determine whether it's appropriate to stop the engine at all. It's for this reason the system is inactive for the first couple of minutes' driving after a cold start.
If they're more technically minded I can tell them that cases are sometimes reported on 4-5 year old cars where the stop/start operation happens less frequently than it did when the car was new; usually because the battery's performance has fallen below the threshold considered by the ECU to be suitable for an immediate restart. A new battery restores normal operation in all cases, long before they're faced with a dead battery on a frosty driveway one morning.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Mon 8 Oct 12 at 20:45
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Since yesterday I have had a car with stop-start for 1 year. And most days it won't even kick in. But when it does it's non-intrusive - if you can call turning off the engine non-intrusive. No other impact except silence and all the benefits. As soon as you depress the clutch the engine is already running. In a DSG I tried it fired up just as quickly - only drove it briefly so cannot comment if it was when you lifted off the brake.
Mine I think via VAG-COM can be disabled but see no reason to do so. If I drive locally it's not enabled. Longer journeys it is and no reason to worry either. And the car, a Passat CC GT 170PS has annual VED of £100.
The new Mazda6 does things a bit different though. It uses a capacitor to store the power so it's not charging the main battery. I think this is how it gets such low CO2 emissions. The Mazda6 auto (proper auto not a DSG) has CO2 emissions as low as some current manuals. Lower than most/all DSG.
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>> In a DSG I tried it fired up just as quickly
I had a play in a DSG Amarok yesterday - the engine stops when you fully depress the brake pedal (say at a red traffic light) and restarts as you begin to lift it. Before I'd seen this thread I tried various permutations to see what it does, and discovered that it doesn't stop the engine if you press the brake gently and *only just* come to a halt. It does, however, stop the engine when you stop normally.
I tend to brake firmly up to a point a metre or so before the stop line, then ease off and let the car halt by itself for smoothness, then press the pedal firmly to keep it stopped there. The s/s stopped and restarted at around the 70% point of brake pedal depressedness, both on the way down and on the way up, which is exactly what you'd want. Even an emergency go* couldn't fox it.
*A long-time favourite phrase of mine, the opposite of an emergency stop I suppose :)
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Fri 12 Oct 12 at 20:02
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>> I can't understand why there's such negative feeling towards stop/start, it's completely unobtrusive in operation.
>> If you never engage neutral and release the clutch when sitting in traffic, you'll never
>> experience it anyway.
Completely agree.
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>> I can't understand why there's such negative feeling towards stop/start, it's completely unobtrusive in operation.
>> If you never engage neutral and release the clutch when sitting in traffic, you'll never
>> experience it anyway.
>>
My concern would be protecting the turbo from oil starvation. I always allow at least 10 seconds on tickover before turning off the engine.
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>> My concern would be protecting the turbo from oil starvation. I always allow at least
>> 10 seconds on tickover before turning off the engine.
>>
That's one of my concerns. My other concern is the increased wear on the starter motor and the flywheel gear ring.
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>> My other concern is the increased wear on the starter motor
They don't use normal starter motors though. These will be designed to cope with this.
In real life, a lot of these cars won't be switching the engine off that often. It's mostly a ruse to beat the emission tests in my opinion.
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>> www.honestjohn.co.uk/road-tests/mazda/mazda-6-2013-road-test/
>>
From what I've seen so far, the profile of the doors of most new cars is similar to those of the Mazda 6. There are no longer any rubbing strips, and the bottom sticks out. I suspect it will lead to a lot of carpark dents to adjacent cars, and damage to the lower part of the vertical edge of the door which is being opened.
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Thanks, Dave and rtj. Now I'm an expert, too!
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Still looks like the front panel of a 90's VCR inside. "Ooh, a vacuum fluorescent display! How modern!"
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I've always liked the Mazda 6. I'd have bought one in 2006 if I could have had an automatic gearbox with the diesel engine. I see that this combination is now being offered, and the write up from HJ is very very positive.
The sticking point for me is in that review.
"There’s no hatchback but, as you’ll see from the price list, the Tourer is only £870 more than the saloon, instead of the usual £1,200 - £1,500. So it’s no big jump."
I don't care if the premium for the estate (sorry "Tourer") is less than usual - I don't damn well want one! I want a hatchback! (For all you fans of estate cars out there, yes, I know that they are marvellous - but I just don't like them)
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>> I don't care if the premium for the estate (sorry "Tourer") is less than usual
>> - I don't damn well want one! I want a hatchback! (For all you fans
>> of estate cars out there, yes, I know that they are marvellous - but I
>> just don't like them)
A hatchback is a wannabe estate!
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I'd prefer a saloon or hatchback... but do I mean hatchback? Or do I mean fastback/liftback or similar?
Is a Golf 3 or 5-door a hatchback? Rear opening is very similar to an estate. It's basically vertical.
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>>A hatchback is a wannabe estate!
And an estate is a wannabe van!
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...and a saloon is just irrelevant.
:-)
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There's more to an estate car than a silhouette, and a hatchback like a Golf has more in common with a saloon - enclosed boot, rigid shelf - than with an estate. There are those - including some here - who like to delude themselves that they can discern the greater refinement of a saloon over a hatchback, but it's moonshine in these days when saloon and hatch variants are built on the same line and both have folding rear seats.
Even estates are quiet and refined these days - although I remember a Renault brochure insisting that the spit-and-sawdust 12 estate was as refined as a saloon. My airport trips frequently put me in saloon versions of cars I know well as estates, and never do I find myself thinking gosh, this is so much more refined than the car I'm used to.
Despite owning one saloon and one estate, I actually agree with Londoner; the saloon would be better as a hatch, and the LEC would be very nearly as useful, as well as more secure if it were, um, an LHC instead.
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With reference to the subject of the thread, seems you'll be waiting a bit longer:
www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/fears-ford-mondeo-plant
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>> Despite owning one saloon and one estate, I actually agree with Londoner; the saloon would
>> be better as a hatch, and the LEC would be very nearly as useful, as
>> well as more secure if it were, um, an LHC instead.
>>
Fortunately MB have thought of that for you WdB - your future LHC can be: tinyurl.com/9ak54qb :-)
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Have you seen the prices for the CLS estate/shooting brake? Starting price is near £50k.
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Indeed; the one I'd be happy (!!) with came out at £58k, and it wasn't an 'AMG Sport' ;-). Still, in 18 ~ 24 months time I'm sure there'll be plenty of lightly used ones around for significantly less...
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>>There are those - including some here - who like to delude themselves that they can discern the greater refinement of a saloon over a hatchback, but it's moonshine in these days when saloon and hatch variants are built on the same line and both have folding rear seats.
>>
???
All the hatchbacks I have been in seemed noisy when seated in the rear.
I do know that my 98 Mondeo saloon with a folding rear seat is still a lot quieter than my 07 X Type with a fixed rear seat.
I suspect that even when I fit some new Khumos ( to match the other pair) it will not match the Mondeo for hush.
Funny old world :-)
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Returning to the main topic, it looks like we'll all have to wait even longer for the new Mondeo, due to the closure of the Genk plant.
www.whatcar.com/car-news/ford-delays-mondeo-until-2014-updated/264255
"However, the complexities of adapting the Valencia factory for Mondeo production are likely to have forced Ford into this further delay. It means that the Mondeo will have to fend off fresher rivals such as the new Mazda 6 and VW Passat. "
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The Mazda6 is on my list for next car... But there will be a new Passat too. Although smaller than I might want the new Golf is good too.
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Last time round (13 months ago for delivery)... no Fords or Vauxhalls on the list. I might consider them next time if the remain on the list. I quite like the new VX soft top.
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If you can't wait for the new Mondeo... - Clk Sec
