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As the title suggests, a place to discuss Formula One, and all other types of motorsport (excluding MotoGP, which has a section of its own).
PLEASE NOTE:-
To try and maintain some kind of logical order of discussion, if you start a new subject then reply to this post and remember to change the default subject header.
270490
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 9 Aug 13 at 10:12
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www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19862043
Red Bull's Mark Webber has called Romain Grosjean a "first-lap nutcase" and "embarrassing" "It's frustrating. Maybe he needs another holiday."
I watched it on the web. This time I did not find the live BBC transmission in time so it was the Sky transmission but without any commercial breaks ( just small adverts overlaying which could be clicked off).
It is looking like the Red Bulls will disappear out of sight but good to see two "strangers" on the podium.
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Sebastian Vettel to join Ferrari in 2014, but Massa remains for 2013
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19941541
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Hmmm, I can see tantrums forming between him and Alonso.
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I am surprised he will be there when Alonso is also still there. Alonso didn't get on with Hamilton or Mclaren because there were no team orders and no concept of first/second driver. There has been at Ferrari for a while. So who will be considered first driver?
I can see tantrums and all sorts. Alonso probably isn't happy.
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>> Sebastian Vettel to join Ferrari in 2014, but Massa remains for 2013
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19941541
>>
It is another Andrew Benson story without much merit, full of ifs and buts. It is not comparable to Eddie Jordan's scoop a few weeks ago about Hamilton's move to Mercedes..
Benson is backtracking with these twits tweets:
twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/257778298887749632
Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo: "I've always said don't want two roosters in the hen-house. It creates instability in the team"
twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/257768070297317376
Christian Horner denies possibility of Vettel to Ferrari in 2014. "Without a shadow of doubt (Vettel) will be part of Red Bull team in 2014"
p.s. and Benson has never been able to justify his frequently repeated claim that "The Spaniard, 31, has a say in the identity of his team-mate and vetoed the idea of Lewis Hamilton joining the team earlier this year."
Last edited by: John H on Mon 15 Oct 12 at 10:53
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If Vettel wins at Red Bull this season then why would he want to move? I think it's 2014 when the changes to engine and stuff comes in so a team not doing so well this year could surprise in 2014. Think what Ross Brawn did when Honda team became Brawn with the diffuser.... he might do similar at Mercedes for 2014.
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www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20097576
LH ..." "I don't think we can get to the front of the race. It's very difficult to overtake here,...."
JB...""It's a good circuit for overtaking but the aim is still to qualify as high as possible."
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www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20193545
Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel has been disqualified from qualifying at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix and will start from the back of the field.
Not enough fuel left to test at the end of practice.
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Now THAT should make the race (and the championship) a bit more interesting.
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Has anyone questioned what mouthwash Alonso is using?
Some might say that it has a distinct whiff of racing fuel for sure.
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>>Not enough fuel left to test at the end of practice.
"....there has to be one litre of fuel for a sample to be taken and only 850ml has been extracted.
"Renault are convinced the rest of the fuel is in the tank. We've taken the car out of parc ferme to further investigate.
..... although Red Bull later announced that he would instead start from the pit lane, which he is within his rights to do.
Their decision not only ensures Vettel will avoid any potential Turn One drama, it also gives the team the chance to play with the car’s settings, switch tyres, alter the gearing, or even change the engine.
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Some years ago JC described the end of a Formula 1 season as 'panto'. For once we saw eye-to-eye.
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What a race! Surprised no one's commented about it yet.
Vettle from last to 3rd.
Incidents galore.
Loved Kimi's comments on the radio telling his pit crew to shut up.
And it all ended with some colourful language on the podium during the interviews.
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Yet another race ruined by safety cars and Grosjean struck again on lap 1.
But a stunning performance by Vettel nonetheless. Started at the back, an extra stop for a front wing that put him back there, and then finished third. As good as Schumacher in his pomp.
Kimi is very good value.
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have to agree regards Vettle, a podium finish from off the naughty step ..brill
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American GP
F1's most memorable moments in America
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20306963
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 15 Nov 12 at 13:55
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I know it is only first practice...
......a massive 1.418secs faster than Hamilton.
That caused a sharp intake of breath and underlined exactly why Vettel is a strong favourite for the championship
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According to Gary Anderson the Redbull simulator is much more advanced than the McLaren one, so that my be part of the reason. Circuit is also particularly well suited to the Redbull, apparently.
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"Ferrari's Felipe Massa will get a five-place grid penalty for Sunday's United States Grand Prix, promoting team-mate Fernando Alonso to seventh.
Ferrari broke the seal on Massa's gearbox, which is against the rules.
The ruling means Alonso - battling for the title with Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel, who starts from pole - will be on the clean side of the grid.
Engineers believe that those on the dirty, even-numbered, side of the grid will lose two positions at the start."
Tactics or ???
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You're not suggesting Ferarri don't play with a straight bat, surely?
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Ferrari will admit they did this on purpose to get Alonso up one place and onto the clean side of the grid.
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That was a damn good race, a proper one. Circuit seems good too.
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Yeah, full of overtaking and the lead constantly changing.........
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Wot, no comments?
I thought it was a good race.
Vettel must have had his lucky underpants on again.
Alonso deserves some kind of an award for coming 2nd in the championship with a car that's been a dog all year.
Hamilton ran out of luck again with his last race for McLaren.
And what a disappointment Shuey has been. Promised so much, delivered so little.
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I was going to comment when I got back but it didnt seem like anyone watched it looking at the silence.
Good race, cannot wait for next year.
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I saw it, action packed for sure. I think Lewis is really regretting his choice.
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As someone who never liked Alonso I've now changed my mind, he had a fantastic season and was the best driver out there.
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I can't forgive Ferrari for their 'manipulation' of the rules. First they broke the gentlemen's agreement about giving the mechanics at least six hours rest each night, on two successive nights at Abu Dhabi IIRC. They then broke the seal on Massa's gearbox at Austin just to get Alonso on the clean side of the grid.
Button was over forty seconds ahead before the safety car. I suspect Hulkenberg was frustrated, but unfortunate he took Hamilton out. Button deserved the win.
Another storming drive by Vettel.
Overall, I think the right result, apart from Ferrari getting second in the constructors.
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>> I think Lewis is really regretting his choice.
If he's not regretting it yet, I am sure he will too. It can't be only for money because he's earning loads anyway. But who knows how Mercedes will do next season - Ross Brawn might come up with an idea for the car that no one else does... or he might not. Brawn got Button his first title because of the double diffuser which the other teams couldn't copy easily because it was such a fundamental change to the cars.
I guess it will be 2014 before we see the big changes though, like the 1.6 litre V6 turbo engines.
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I think the deal between Merc and Lewis is more complicated than just the car.
Lewis has had some issues dealing with the high level of sponsorship pressures and I suspect the drop from 70+ engagements to around 25 for Merc, plus the reported 6 million quid extra he will be earning will certainly have been a big factor.
I also think that there comes a point when you just fancy a change, you need a new challenge - Lewis has looked exceptionally relaxed since the announcement, especially these last few races when he has also been driving exceptionally well too - I think his well being is linked directly to his driving and he has recognised that.
The media pressure at McLaren to be winning is immense because it is expected, but Lewis has set himself 3 years to try and develop Mercedes and 2014 is when it all really starts, nobody is expecting much for 2013. I think at the core of the decision lies pressure and this was an exercise to release some of it. Like he has said, in 3 years time he will be 31, its not like his career is over.
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Very eventful, but a bit less exciting than Austin... Lewis Hamilton and the Hulk both deserved to win, the Hulk being a bit of a surprise to me running at the front there. JB a worthy inheritor of the win. Alonso still more or less the class of the field. Kobayashi in the points after a gritty race in a skittish car. It will be a tragedy if he doesn't get a drive next season.
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>> Wot, no comments?
I always wait for someone else to post something, because I don't know where to look for the last one and can't be bothered trawling back through old posts over several pages to find it manually.
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>> I don't know where to look for the last one and can't be bothered trawling back through old posts over several pages to find it manually.
Forum search - www.car4play.com/forum/search.htm
Then enter F1 into the subject box and change the default 1 month to 3 months should get you somewhere close.
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>> Wot, no comments?
I commented immediately after the race, with the remark that it was a close shave...
It was removed and I haven't bothered to ask why.
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>> >> Wot, no comments?
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>> I commented immediately after the race, with the remark that it was a close shave...
>>
>> It was removed and I haven't bothered to ask why.
Maybe you were naughty and tacked it on to the American GP instead of replying to the first post in the thread?
Shirley they wouldn't moderate you for that...
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>> >> It was removed and I haven't bothered to ask why.
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>> Maybe you were naughty and tacked it on to the American GP instead of replying
>> to the first post in the thread?
I can't recall seeing it, but if it had been moved because of that reason, then it's possible to lose it in cyberspace during the move.
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>> Maybe you were naughty and tacked it on to the American GP instead of
>> replying
>> >> to the first post in the thread?
Ah!
I think you could just be right. I posted some comment on the Brazilian GP and then realised that I hadn't altered the heading, so I went back and edited it.
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>> I think you could just be right. I posted some comment on the Brazilian GP
>> and then realised that I hadn't altered the heading, so I went back and edited
>> it.
But did you reply to the first post in this thread (as per the "Please Note" request) or did you post your reply onto the American GP one?
I'm just trying to establish that if it did get moved because of the latter, then it might be tagged onto another post somewhere in the forum. I can't find it however via a forum search which would suggest it's been deleted.
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>> But did you reply to the first post in this thread (as per the "Please
>> Note" request) or did you post your reply onto the American GP one?
>>
>> I'm just trying to establish that if it did get moved because of the latter,
>> then it might be tagged onto another post somewhere in the forum. I can't find
>> it however via a forum search which would suggest it's been deleted.
>>
I committed the error of tacking it on to The American GP sub thread.
My mistake.
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That was a cracking race.
My wife didn't fall asleep during it, so it must have been.
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Nothing happened re Vettel's overtake during yellow flags...must have been more to it then, otherwise Ferrari would have appealed the result, wouldn't they.
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Discussed else where, they weren't waved yellows, but static yellow and reds. Notification of a slippery surface, and no compulsory action.
Apparently the view through a camera changed the colour, but had they been waved yellows, the circuit screens would have shown a flashing image too.
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Tue 27 Nov 12 at 18:00
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>> Discussed else where, they weren't waved yellows, but static yellow and reds. Notification of a
>> slippery surface, and no compulsory action.
>>
>> Apparently the view through a camera changed the colour, but had they been waved yellows,
>> the circuit screens would have shown a flashing image too.
>>
Nicely explained, thank you
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According to the BBC Ferrari are now "Evaluating footage of Vettel's overtake with a view to launching an appeal".
Could prove interesting.
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So, if for example, and I'm not for one moment suggesting this to be possible / probable or even desirable but just suppose Ferrari successfully proved / contended that Vettel had done something wrong, could that retrospectively change the championship result or is that a done deal?
Shabby if they do pursue it in my view. Ref's decision should be final and all that stuff.
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Motor racing is one of the few sports where the result can be changed after the event.
Report here -
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20531638
Last edited by: Robin Regal on Wed 28 Nov 12 at 22:13
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Apparently the rules state if there is any new evidence that appears after the event, and is found guilty, then a penalty of 20 seconds is added. There is a time limit of Nov 30, so they have to sort it either way before Fri
I have mixed views, it doesnt do Ferrari any favours, however, if he was guilty of it is it right to just ignore and pretend it didnt happen?! The article also says it doesnt matter who asks or if someone asks, they have to investigate.....interesting!
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Footage here -
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20531638
Or maybe not, I did summat wrong there! On You tube however.
Last edited by: Robin Regal on Wed 28 Nov 12 at 22:20
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>> Or maybe not
Works for me- ta.
Last edited by: Focusless on Wed 28 Nov 12 at 22:26
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Vettel overtook an car in a yellow flag scenario... but what if the other driver just let him past. Obviously Red Bull owns the team of the other driver....
Probably come to nothing.
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>> Vettel overtook an car in a yellow flag scenario...
>>
He didn't. BBC's Andrew Benson is stirring it again, as he likes that kind of thing. It is the BBC after all.
A marshall was waving the green flag.
Alleged yellow light when passing Torro Rosso of J.E.Vergne
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFER0esusF0&feature=related
but as explained in the comments there, look at marshall waving green flag, from the box on the left of the circuit, at time 10.29 on the video.
Shown here www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVC83hKvjYE
and here s7.directupload.net/images/121128/xq7wq2yp.gif
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>> BBC's Andrew Benson is stirring it again, as he likes that kind of
>> thing. It is the BBC after all.
>>
People telling Benson where to look:
twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/273920370426396673
twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/273908274359832576
Last edited by: John H on Wed 28 Nov 12 at 23:42
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FIA believes Sebastian Vettel has no case to answer
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20541589
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 29 Nov 12 at 13:52
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It seems like the BBC were the only ones to really push this story. Even the Italian news agency ANSA only reported it once the FIA had clarified the matter.
Given the footage available (with the blatant flashing yellows) any team in this situation would have asked for clarification, which has now been given, so all ok.
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>> It seems like the BBC were the only ones to really push this story.
>>
At breakfast on FiveLive, Rachel Burden started with the headline along the lines of "Looks like Vettel will lose his title" and then introduced James Allen "let us go over to James Allen who has more on this breaking news". James came on and straight away said something to the effect that "F1 fans had been posting youtube clips questioning Vettel's overtake, but slow motion replays had shown that Vettel was complying fully with the rules. There was no case to answer."
Cue quick end to the interview and no more misleading headlines.
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Had Alonso (and Ferrari) challenged this result, and won, Alonso would have been non- champion. Everyone would have said he was not a valid champ (even tho his driving through the years deserved that title) So it all turned out good in the end,
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Benson of BBC won't accept his own defeat graciously, and continues to prove his poor journalistic ability.
twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/274168552536276993
"Re Vettel/flag situation, FIA will have to explain why the car's cockpit display did not correspond to flag - not supposed to contradict".
Until the FIA tell him , it seems Benson the twiterrer won't accept what Danilo Schoeneberg has commented fairly authoritatively:
“Flags do always take precedence over the lights. The lights, and especially the steering wheel indicators are only supplemental devices.
They can only be turned on/off by GPS-based signals at certain points of the track, which is why the indicators in Vettel’s cockpit stay on until he passes the light post, which also shows green. It’s these light posts that trigger the cockpit indicators. The yellow flag zone ended at the green flag near the pit exit."
Benson even goes so far to use the word "believe" in covering the FIA rubbishing the whole hoohah: www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20541589
"FIA believes Vettel not guilty
Formula 1's governing body the FIA believes world champion Sebastian Vettel committed no offence"
compare that to other news media headlines:
"FIA deems Vettel pass legal"
"FIA says 'no case' to answer"
"Vettel: 'No case to answer'"
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>> Benson of BBC won't accept his own defeat graciously, and continues to prove his poor
>> journalistic ability.
All he is doing is trying to keep something to write about, nothing is happening till next spring.
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>> All he is doing is trying to keep something to write about, nothing is happening
>> till next spring.
>>
Sure, but he could do it as autosport, espnf1, etc. all did.
For example, f1fanatic headline:
"FIA confirms Vettel’s pass on Vergne was legal"
p.s. Bernie says "Yellow flag dispute 'a joke' - Ecclestone"
Ecclestone said Ferrari's actions were a joke and that they should have done something on the day if they were really serious about protesting.
"In the rules and regs normally you have to protest," the 82 year-old said. "They [Ferrari] missed that time. Then there is the fact that a green flag was shown, which nobody seems to dispute. It's a complete joke. What they [Ferrari] are saying in that letter is wrong. I don't think there needs to be any action taken. It's completely and utterly wrong."
Ecclestone was not impressed with the Italian team.
"Personally I think it's not really like Ferrari to do this. I think they badly wanted to win. But if you want to go back and see what Ferrari have done down the years … But nothing will happen. What can they do? Take civil action? Maybe. But the case is flawed before it starts. Nothing is going to happen."
Last edited by: John H on Thu 29 Nov 12 at 18:55
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Bernie is as bad as the media in this one. Ferrari asked the FIA to confirm if Vettels pass was legal or not. It turns out there was a green flag being waved which contradicted the yellow lights. Thats the end of the matter, why Bernie is bandying about words like "civil action" and such like is mischievious, because people read it and assume Ferrari are going ahead with it, sore losers etc..
I will say again, any other team given the footage would have asked the question in such circumstances. Also at no point have Ferrari appealed any decisions
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Valtteri Bottas replaces Bruno Senna at Williams
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20524465
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Di Montezemolo, 65, said: "We must respect the elderly, especially when they can no longer control their words.
"Seniority is often incompatible with certain roles and responsibilities."
No guesses who these comments were aimed at :-)
Last edited by: henry k on Mon 3 Dec 12 at 14:36
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Lotus re-sign Romain Grosjean for the 2013 sea
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20762327
Former Sauber driver Kamui Kobayashi gives up on 2013 drive
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20764423
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Suzi Perry replaces Jake Humphrey
plus which GPs are live.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20812990
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>> Suzi Perry
Will she be wearing her cat suit?
Drool.
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>>rumours that Bernie is lining up a buy out of Force India:
No idea if that's true or not, but I would not be surprised if Ecclestone is looking for somewhere else to remain significant and involved.
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>> >>rumours that Bernie is lining up a buy out of Force India:
>>
>> No idea if that's true or not, but I would not be surprised if Ecclestone
>> is looking for somewhere else to remain significant and involved.
Somewhere to, hmmmmm, errrrrr how can I put this, "invest" some money?
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www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21143847
Mercedes want to replace team principal Ross Brawn as part of a restructure aimed at improving the team's performance.
The proposal is to replace Brawn, who masterminded Michael Schumacher's seven world titles at Benetton and Ferrari, with two new appointments.
The planned restructure leaves no place for Brawn or chief executive officer Nick Fry, the two men who in the winter of 2008/9 saved what has become Mercedes following the withdrawal from Formula 1 of then-owners Honda.
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That will upset Lewis, Ross was one of the reasons (even the main reason) that he went over.
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If they seriously think Ross Brawn is the problem then they are about to do worse. It was his genius that got the title when they came up with the diffuser - his interpretation of new rules meant they did better than the others who played catchup. I'd have thought the upcoming regulation changes (including the new small capacity turbo engines) is exactly the time Brawn could come up with a winning strategy/design again.
Hamilton probably regretted leaving Mclaren in the end. He certainly will if Brawn is forced out of Mercedes.
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>>Hamilton probably regretted leaving Mclaren in the end.
>> He certainly will if Brawn is forced out of Mercedes.
>>
LH might have an out in his contract is Brawn goes?
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He might, but where to? Ferrari and Red bull turned him down.
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Hamilton maintains that at the start of his three-year deal he has been given assurances by team principal Ross Brawn as to the 58-year-old's future with the Brackley-based marque.
'I've been assured by Ross his commitment is for the long term and he is here to try to win with me, which reassures me and gives me a positive feeling moving forward.
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>> 'I've been assured by Ross his commitment is for the long term....
He might want to be there, is committed.... but might be gone soon. The words don't mean he is staying. I hope he does. But another team would gladly employ him. Trouble is he'd be on gardening leave for a bit. But he might know enough about the turbo car era designs to mean he leaves now and is worth getting in 12 months.
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>> Hamilton probably regretted leaving Mclaren in the end.
He's not having a good time at Mercedes at the moment. Crashed on the 1st day of testing.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21349435
And to rub salt into the wounds, his ex team mate Button was fastest in the 1st day of testing
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21344146
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>> The planned restructure leaves no place for Brawn or chief executive officer Nick Fry,
Nick Fry to step down as CEO of Mercedes F1 team
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21895406
Mercedes said its sports boss Toto Wolff, the executive director of the F1 team, would take a "greater role in the day-to-day running of the team".
Wolff will work alongside team principal Ross Brawn.
Mercedes have also recruited former McLaren technical director Paddy Lowe. The 50-year-old is on gardening leave from McLaren until the end of this year and will join Mercedes in 2014, although Mercedes have not yet publicly admitted they will take him on.
Wolff and Lauda plan for Lowe to take on a role running the sporting and operational side of the team, alongside Wolff.
Lowe's arrival is expected to see Brawn depart from his role as team principal, as exclusively predicted by BBC Sport.
BBC Sport understands Brawn, should he wish to, may stay involved with Mercedes in another role, which a source says will likely be running their motorsport engine department in Brixworth in Northamptonshire.
Brawn and Fry were instrumental in saving the team before it became Mercedes.
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2041? That's what I call forward planning!
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDKtlu2KYw4
Here's a spectators view of events.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVbp7m3chSY
The drivers involved all managed to walk away.
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...the Japanese company returns to Formula 1 for the first time since 2008.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21655985
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And the old Honda team is now Mercedes.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-21740060
Some wonderful black and white photos of 1960s Formula One cars.
Photographer six feet from a flat-out Brabham, Lotus changing an engine in the car park and filling up Graham Hill's car straight from a petrol pump.
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O - shame - none of me rounding Paddock at Brands in my 970 CooperS
Mind you, I still prefer club events to F1
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>> me rounding Paddock at Brands in my 970 CooperS
Sixties Roger? Chapeau anyway. I wonder if I ever saw you among the jostling gaggle of Minis on the heels of the Jags, Lotus Cortinas and 7-litre 2-speed automatic Galaxies?
I've often wondered whether Mini racers unstuck the back end with a dab of left-foot braking there. Road Minis were pretty consistent understeerers.
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Kimi did very well, Vettel looks beatable and the Ferrari looks quick.
Hamilton 5th, Button 9th. Looks like Lewis was smarter than he was given credit for when he jumped ship. Perez was even further back, that McLaren aint quick.
Low track temp may have favoured some teams over others so next race will be interesting.
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Shame I saw the above post before watching the race which wasn't on the BBC until this afternoon.
Well done Raikonnen.
McLaren trying to get back on terms should make it an interesting season.
Suzi Perry did an excellent job in my opinion. I had no sense at all of her coming between the viewer and the event, unlike her predecessor who was a constant annoyance.
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>> Kimi did very well, .............
The thing I like about Kimi Raikkonen is his modesty. When he wins he doesn't resort to the histrionics that are the trademark of the likes of Vettel and Hamilton.
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>> >> Kimi did very well, .............
>>
>> The thing I like about Kimi Raikkonen is his modesty. When he wins he doesn't
>> resort to the histrionics that are the trademark of the likes of Vettel and Hamilton.
Raikkonen is many things, modest is not one of them.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 22 Mar 13 at 14:03
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>> Raikkonen is many things, modest is not one of them.
Perhaps not, but his gruff deadpan delivery makes him look modest alongside all that whippersnapperish yelping, air-punching and giving all and sundry the finger (albeit only the forefinger).
Don't disrespect Finns. They are Europe's foremost knife fighters.
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Japanese GP - henry k
