I was pondering this as a serial car changer and how one goes about modifying your behaviour, if this is at all possible!
I changed my car recently for a variety of reasons, but the core reason, aside from the practical things, was simply that the car I had 'wasnt me' and I wanted something that was more in tune with me and what I appreciate in a car and how I see myself.
I have decided that old cars are the way for me now as it seems crazy to hole up so much money in a fast depreciating heap of metal and never again will I allow myself to jump into expensive car ownership.
Is it getting the balance of what you want and what you need or if you get the balance, do you not in the end satisfy either need very well?
Im getting now to the age where insurance costs are marginal atleast so it has afforded me freedom on choice but petrol still seems eye-watering to me ( I spend 30% more on petrol a month than I do on food! ).
I found myself choosing quiet backlanes so I could potter at 40 the other day just to eek out that extra few mpg without playing the rolling roadblock, but I think age is bringing out the extreme miser in me now, its a plague!
The longest ive ever owned cars/vehicles has been 2.5 years, which was a Daewoo Matiz I bought new in 1998, That is followed closely by my Suzuki van which was 2 years and the Charade which was a month shy of 2 years.
Few cars survive the 1st year although its not unknown for me to turn a profit when ive move cars on so its not often financially futile, but thats always been when ive bought cheap but reasonable cars which will be ok to sell on.
With my 'new' Toyota, Im hoping to train myself to keep a car longer. It is many of the things I like in a car - very comfy, smooth autobox, well made, light to drive and has a rep for going on forever. This bodes well as ive often not got this combination with my old cars - theres always been a compromise. There is of course one with this car, namely its economy which I may be able to eek 40 mpg from if I drive like the proverbial vicar, but this I can do because it suits the car to be driven this way and it drops into overdrive at 51 mph which makes 55 an ideal cruising speed for economy. So I may be closer than ive ever been before to getting the right car, but is it enough? Is there more to long term car ownership than getting the right car in the first place?
In the past its been finances which have held me back from selling cars, but things are OK right now in that respect although can always be better. Do you need to emotionally invest in a car to want to keep it?
Any tips, views etc welcome, Im sure im not the only sufferer!
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i also get bored of cars easily and change every 2 yrs or so.
the problem is i will never again buy a used car as i'd much rather pay the main dealer a reasonable price after a good haggling than frequent used car lts or turn up to a private house and spend a precious hour of my life checking over a carwhen i can afford a new one.
its not the money at all that i mind about but id rather be doing something else than looking for cars.
my cars are always a compromise and will be until the children leave home and i can buy something i really want.
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I don't see the issue with being a serial car changer.
Other than it's non-conformist and as with all non-conformity will always attract much sucking through teeth when the behaviour's mentioned down the pub, but there will never any real concrete objections to back up the sucking through teeth noises.
Car ownership can be a hobby too. They don't need a rhyme nor reason to them.
If i had your skill with making them look good (which lets face it is 90% of what normal people make a decision on when they buy a car privately -- if it looks straight and clean, it's probably straight and clean everywhere), if i could tart them up, i'd get through a ton more "2nd cars"...
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>> Other than it's non-conformist
Actually it's totally conformist - without the unnecessarily rapid turn over of new and used cars, the car industry's sales would be far lower than they are now.
They want you to become bored of your old car, or smitten by a new model so that the market can continue to churn.
Non-conformity would be buying a car and running it for 20-30 years until it was truly dead.
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I found having my earnings half concentrated my mind somewhat! Always had approx £200/£300 per month I could allocate to do what i liked with regarding cars, so chopped and changed regularly almost on a whim. Never been more miserable since this guilty pleasure has been taken away....
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With my history I think I will always stick to new or nearly new cars. I''ve already got my eye on an 11reg Focus for when my Panda is paid off in 2014. Some how though by year three I can see myself working very hard to get rid of it as I will be bored stiff of it, but the plan is to sell it onto my dad for what ever the dealer says the trade price is.
Bangers work well for my dad but then he sees bushes and working brakes as a luxery.
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Funny thing is, my dad is the complete opposite. He has bought this Daihatsu Materia which he said, and I quote ' when im gone, make sure you mum sells the Hyundai and runs this car until she is gone too'. Now, conservatively, thats maybe 25 years if not longer before my mum meets a natural end - my dad is serious though! It is a great car for someone of advancing years no doubt, but still, nots ure if mum will give up her Coupe while it still starts!
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I'm completely the opposite to Stu, my problem is i always over maintain and completely rustproof my cars...my ageing MB for example has in the last 14 months had all new shockers, new springs, reline and redisc quite apart from it's meticulous maintenance which included it's 2nd gearbox oil change recently too, the rear axle oil change i did some 15k ago.
The pick up is similarly fully rustproofed, and has been maintained with indefinate ownership in mind..it hasn't seen more than 3K miles between oil changes...something i'm trying to cure meself of now it's got Millers proper stuff in and not the dealers choice...it's a diiferent engine altogether running the Millers oil that's not wishful thinking either.
They're both too good to sell.
I'd never get what the MB is worth if i sold it though with the hefty price increases of the Hilux's i might get a good enough price for that, it's as new at 2.5 years old, actually with the work and minor mods it's had it's better than new.
My problem now is i only need the one car, i walk to work unless i'm on mega early starts, which do i sell, i don't want to part with either but may just have to decide....i'll give it a couple of months, i could keep the MB as a toy but it's expensive in standing costs being high group insurance and 124 MB's do not fare well standing they need to be driven regularly, and being ever more reclusive we tend to stick to bennet castle.
Anyway buying the right car for us is a balance of reliability, simplicity, driveability, quality (whatever that is), durability, value and costs etc, all this obviously depending on the purpose of the vehicle.
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The car I've got now ('98 BMW Touring) has been with me for 5 years now, and some of the reason for this is it just suits me. For the mileage I do (6-7000 a year), the petrol costs are containable, and servicing is reasonable. I changed the drivers seat for a sports item because the standard drivers seat gave me back ache, and if I hadn't done this, I wouldn't have the car now. So comfort is a big priority. If a car is comfortable for you then you can forgive some of it's weaker points. Look at how long people keep Volvo's. Yes, they can be a bit thirsty but a good seat and load bay works wonders.
I used to change my cars every few years, but I find I'm saving a wad of cash by keeping this one running, so that I can eventually afford a good replacement. And I'm constantly thinking about replacements. At the moment its a Skoda Octavia or Honda Accord, if the unthinkable happens and the beemer gets written off. Sometimes I wish I had something with a better ride but nothing has gone wrong with the car, everything works, and its got useful (for me) load space. I've got to the point where I don't see the car as a trade-in now, and knowing that I can buy my next car with cash that I've saved from keeping this car is a nice thought.
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More options you have, more confused you will be :)
Requirement changes all the time. So, 3 years back what was a right car for you, may not be right today (e.g. bigger car required due to growing family or longer/shorter commute etc.).
Just fix your budget, then shortlist some models and decide on what seems best bet at that time.
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Yes, and take the trouble to try it properly: so if you do a lot of long motorway journeys, don't make do with a ten-minute test drive in town traffic. I don't mind giving away the occasional pair of shoes that turn out not to be as comfortable in real life as they seemed in the shop, but I wouldn't want that to happen with a car.
In 20 years I've had five cars, of which I've been delighted with four. The mistake was made when I found I could afford a change, and blinded myself to the evidence that the new car actually suited me less well than the one I wanted to replace. So a certain amount of private honesty and self-knowledge will help, too.
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Whats the formula to buying the right car for you?
In a word - complicated.
I make a shortlist of cars and work out the cost with all the desired extras (e.g. parking sensors). Then I rate them against my buying criteria. Each of my criteria has a weighting from 1 to 10.
Each car has a total score consisting of (rating x criteria value).
A worked Example:
Criteria are Purchase & Running Costs (8 points), Comfort (8 points), Looks (7 points), Practicality (6 points), Performance (5 Points).
(I am not interested in image, handling etc, but I accept that other people will inwant to include them if they do the same exercise)
My shortlist could be a BMW 320d and a Ford Mondeo 2.0. I score it as follows:
Costs (8 points), BMW 5 - Mondeo 8 (so, BMW 5 x 8 = 40, Mondeo 8 x 8 = 64)
Comfort (8 points), BMW 6 - Mondeo 8 (so, BMW 6 x 8 = 48, Mondeo 8 x 8 = 64)
Looks (7 points), BMW 7 - Mondeo 7 (so, BMW 7 x 7 = 49, Mondeo 7 x 7 = 49)
Practicality (7 points), BMW 6 - Mondeo 9 (so, BMW 6 x 7 = 42, Mondeo 7 x 9 = 63)
Performance (5 points), BMW 8 - Mondeo 6 (so, BMW 5 x 8 = 40, Mondeo 5 x 6 = 30)
So BMW get a total of 219 points, and the Mondeo 270 points. A clear majority (ooh! Topical!)
Of course you can have as many cars as you like in the shortlist, and extra criteria. If you have a spreadsheet application on your PC, doing all the calculations is easy.
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Even using such a formula, you'll probably find that you overrate some criteria and underrate others (typically underrating comfort and overrating looks).
I'm no BMW fanboy but to say a 3 series is equally attractive as the bloated Mondeo is unfair on the German ;-)
Also not sure I'd rate the costs of the BMW as that much worse than the Mondeo after taking into account depreciation and fuel economy.
I reckon if you didn't do the calculations you'd still have a 'gut' feeling that you prefered the Mondeo ?
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I think the formula overcomplicates things. The clear winner on paper when I was looking in 2002 was the Passat TDI estate. Then I took one for a long drive and scrubbed it off the list because I just didn't like it. Then I did the same in a Volvo S60 and had to have one. Still got it; still happy.
Everyone has personal dealbreakers and you don't always know what they're going to be. For a family bus in 2008 we wanted something with three separate seats in the back; Citroen's C4 Grand Picasso looked like a good bet, but I drove it and hated the dozy semi-auto gearbox and the speedometer in Milton Keynes, so off the list it went.
I reckon you should shortlist carefully, decide what you like best and go for it if you can afford it. If you can't justify the cost, repeat the process with the next on the list. Formulas work well on objective data; using them with arbitrary values merely offers the illusion of science.
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>> I reckon if you didn't do the calculations you'd still have a 'gut' feeling that
>> you prefered the Mondeo ?
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Well spotted that I also should have mentioned that the cars on the shortlist need to be test driven.
You are also right that I do have a 'gut' feeling that I prefer the Mondeo. The calculations kind of give "confirmation".
Unfortunately, I happen to be stuck with the BMW. :-(
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Can I afford it?
Does it meet the criteria which mean I can use it as my day to day car?
Do I want it?
- subset: Do I want it more than anything else which obeys these criteria?
That's the lot I think.
I owned an Alfa 145 Cloverleaf for three years based on this analysis - only being replaced when a Fiat Coupe started to meet the 'afford' criteria, and therefore exceeded it on the 'want more than others' one.
The Fiat Coupe I owned for 2 years, at which point an Alfa 156 GTA Sportwagon dropped into 'affordable', and also a bit of forward thinking on the practicality criteria led me to want a 5 door.
The GTA I've now had for three years, and I can't see it being replaced for a good long while yet. It's perfectly practical for me, and desirable to the extent that I can't see anything short of about £35k which I would even consider wanting over it, despite its own value being probably around £8k.
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You sir have a very good taste in cars, I wish I was that brave!
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Different for everyone I suppose. For me it's about one big "acid test" .............
"Will this car cope with every task I need a car to do and shift the combination of stuff and people I need to shift, in reasonable comfort, with a measure of driving pleasure and at a price and running cost I can afford without thinking about it and without finance and be likely to remain reliable while performing those tasks ?"
If the answer is "yes" it can go on my shortlist.
Then it's down to the heart and what feels right on the day.
Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Wed 12 May 10 at 18:42
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Simple for me.
Does it make the neighbours envious that I am handsome and drive a super duper car they wish they can afford but cannot?
If the answer is yes, i have chosen the wrong car.
:-)
Last edited by: madf on Wed 12 May 10 at 19:00
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Very good madf ! :-)
I confess to having bought "the wrong car" on many occasions. Sometimes though, they have temporarily at least, brought me great pleasure while costing me more than I consider is reasonable and often in addition not being very useful.
In recent years I have conversely taken the view that I prefer to run cars which give me no or negligible financial concern while fulfilling the actual motoring needs I have.
Must be getting old.
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Thats exactly why I bought the Panda. It is costing me £128 just for the loan and everything is else is on top. However the Corsa ended up costing me at least £200 a month and I didn't miss it. The Panda had £15 worth of fuel in it when the dealer drove to Manchester from Birmingham, its on 123 miles now (was on 81 when I get it) and the fuel still hasn't gone close to empty, its between quarter and the first empty notch. I seem to be getting well above 50mpg so far and it can only get better with use.
It means that the high cost of the loan will be wiped out with very low fuel costs. It is also extremely nippy so for my circumstances I am hoping I have picked the perfect car.
I could have easily bought a nice BMW or merc for £6500 but every time I look at it I would hate it because of the high insurance and tax etc.
If I did a lot of motorway work then I would have more likely have used my £6500 to buy a 3 year old Mondeo.
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Very kind of you to say so, and they're certainly 3 cars I have greatly enjoyed owning. I don't consider it 'brave' though, or even foolhardy.
In over 8 years of Italian motors I can remember the following problems:
Alternator packed up on the GTA (unfortunately at the top of an Alp).
Gear selector issue on the Coupe (Likely my own fault. Rather heavy handed with a downchange when someone pulled out of a sideroad right in front of me, and cracked the pivot point of the gearstick.)
Can't think of anything else, although there's a niggle in the back of my mind saying I've forgotten 1 thing. They've probably cost a bit more in maintenance than a 'normal' car might have, both because they're slightly more expensive anyway, and I've looked after them in order to avoid the problems that neglect can cause. And (since the Coupe at least) they've certainly cost more in running costs, but then I do about 8000 miles a year, unless I go on a European jaunt, so that doesn't really bother me so much.
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I'm a serial car collector. I run cars as long as possible and then keep them for spares or sentiment. They are useful for storing parts in from previous cars I have dismantled.
I now have three actually on the road (2 Volvos and a LandRover), and plan to keep them indefinitely.
Sometimes I buy a spare car of the same model just in case.
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Whats the formula to buying the right car for you? - nyx2k
