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The Ford Popular 100E I learned to drive in had three gears which was the norm at the time, but now six gears is becoming commonplace. I wonder what the limit will be, or in fact whether there'll ever be a limit.
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Yes: the eventual limit will be one, because electric motors produce full torque at any speed, so there'll be no need for multiple ratios.
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Dafs I always understood had an infinite number of gears, because the drive belt moved up a continually-changing cone?
At the other extreme steam cars didn't have any gears.
I don't think it's quite true to say 3 speeds was the norm. Plenty of classic cars had 4 speed boxes, the better quality with overdrives, giving 5,6 or 7 speeds.
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IIRC three speed boxes were common place until the sixties. In some cases a four speed and floor rather than column change came as part of higher tier trim/power options.
Five seems plenty to me but I guess a very long 6th might improve m/way cruise economy and/or reduce noise. OTOH the Berlingo has a gap between 3 and 4 that leaves one struggling to keep speed and torque band in synch on alpine type mountain ascents.
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A tall sixth is a mixed blessing on a crowded UK motorway, where traffic speeds often drop below the 60 or so that's the usable minimum for such a ratio. A well-chosen fifth, on the other hand, will let the car pull happily from 45 or even 40, without becoming unduly noisy or thirsty at full speed, so the five-speed box can actually be a more relaxing drive than six.
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My vintage car (Morgan) makes do with two. Only real drawback is first is too high for creeping in traffic - flat out in 1st, it'll do 45.
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>> My vintage car (Morgan) makes do with two. Only real drawback is first is too
>> high for creeping in traffic - flat out in 1st, it'll do 45.
>>
On some of the old British motorbikes you had to slip the clutch in first all the way up to 30mph.
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>> A tall sixth is a mixed blessing on a crowded UK motorway, where traffic speeds
>> often drop below the 60 or so that's the usable minimum for such a ratio.
>> A well-chosen fifth, on the other hand, will let the car pull happily from 45
>> or even 40, without becoming unduly noisy or thirsty at full speed, so the five-speed
>> box can actually be a more relaxing drive than six.
Xantia has such a fifth though in practice I'll drop into 4th at 55. The 'lingo is the lowest powered 1.9D version, about 70PS, and needs to be dropped out of 5th pretty sharply on long M/way inclines or it will run out of puff.
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I think there's a seven speed Porsche these days. I'm going auto next time.
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My automatic 5 series has 8 gears in its auto box.....
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My 1973 Triumph 2.5PI had overdrive on all forward gears : so 8 gears in total plus reverse =9.
(Overdrive on 1st should not have happened but it did..)
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>>
>>>>
>>
>> (Overdrive on 1st should not have happened but it did..)
>>
Only if the inhibitor switch was broken or out of adjustment!
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>> A tall sixth is a mixed blessing on a crowded UK motorway, where traffic speeds
>> often drop below the 60 or so that's the usable minimum for such a ratio.
>> A well-chosen fifth, on the other hand, will let the car pull happily from 45
The Outlandish has 6, and 6th is good from 45mph (as in that's when it tells you to change up if you need telling).
From a driveability point of view I'm sure you could lose one and spread the ratios out; though if they wanted to tinker with it I'd go for a slightly lower first for towing.
I'm pretty sure that chasing economy figures has much to do with it - I don't think consumers are discriminating against cars with 5 speeds. Diesels are more likely to have extra gears - they run out of revs sooner.
The boss's Civic 1.6 auto is really a 3 speed with overdrive 4th, as was my 2002 CRV auto. In fact 4th on that car could be turned on and of with a button marked O/D on the end of the column mounted gear selector.
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My 1982 Accord had a single-speed 'auto' with switchable low ratio and 'overdrive', called Hondamatic. The normal 'drive' was good for 0 to well over 100 (indicated). Nicest autobox I had before the auto/tiptronic one in the Prelude and the lovely GM400 4-speed in the Beast...
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Whenever I have to drive the 6 speed Astra at work, it's 6th gear is very high just cruising you need to be doing 70 to accelerate about 80. Anything below those speeds you can feel it struggling below 60 it's very wheezy.
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Loads of blow in the X1's 6th as there really is in the 3 Series. The X1 could have done with a number 7 on motorways. Drove a lovely new 320d auto recently- perfect ratios - hence the attraction of a auto next time.
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I think 6 is about right for a manual - the gate would get a bit wide with more. I must admit I sometimes find myself groping for the right cog when downshifting for an overtake - the kids still take about the day I found second and took her up to almost 7000 rpm...
For an auto, have as many as you like. So long as you dont feel the shifts, what does it matter.
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If an engine has a decent spread of torque, five is probably all you actually need. I haven't driven one of these 'ere modern diesel thingies, or a smaller engine with a restricted torque band, surely these are the main drivers along with trying to improve fuel consumption in the need for extra gears?
Strangely enough, I was going to start a thread on a related subject regarding the spread of torque on modern diesels (or not), and whether I would be constantly changing gear when going up and down significant hills (bearing in mind I live in a vaguely mountainous region).
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I quite enjoy driving my wife's car which is a lowish powered petrol 5 speed manual if I'm dashing about the country lanes near home at weekends but when I'm working, ( long journeys usually ) or have to go into a city, especially London, I much prefer a proper slushy auto. Not sure about low powered engines combined with auto boxes though. Hunt about too much for my liking.
Most cars I had early in my driving life were 4 speed manuals and of course later on 5 speeds. One of my Mondeos was a 6 speed manual. It wasn't really a problem to use and the extra gear was good for economy.
I remember my dad's Wolseley 6/110 having a 4 speed with a pull out dash mounted t-bar toggle sort of thing for overdrive. Not sure how that worked. I was only about 6 or 7 when he had it and wasn't terribly clued up on such things. I do though remember him cursing it because it often sort of clunked as he engaged overdrive and I don't think he felt it was a smooth enough change. 3.0 or thereabouts engine I want to think. 6 cylinder probably? That particular car's gearlever broke off in his hand somewhere near Otterburn one night on his way back to Edinburgh but fortunately he had just selected 3rd gear and managed to complete the journey over the Carter Bar in just the one gear. Must have been a fairly torquey engine or perhaps circumstances just dictated that whether it was or not it simply had to cope.
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>> I don't think it's quite true to say 3 speeds was the norm.
Perhaps I should have said "........... only had three gears which was the norm by no means unusual at the time.".
Last edited by: L'escargot on Fri 28 Sep 12 at 07:26
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>> >> I don't think it's quite true to say 3 speeds was the norm.
>>
>> Perhaps I should have said "........... only had three gears which was the norm
>> by no means unusual at the time.".
>>
I always pulled away in second in my four speed Austins-first was so low as to be unuseable.
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>> I always pulled away in second in my four speed Austins-first was so low as
>> to be unuseable.
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I failed my first test because I hadn't been taught how to change down from second into the non-synchromesh first gear of the 100E Popular. In second you had to slip the clutch at anything under 20mph so I found going across urban crossroads to be a problem. There were very few signs/lines at crossroads in those days so nobody had priority and hence crossroads had to be approached at a very low speed.
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My Toyota Auris has a six speed gearbox - 6th is happiest at 45mph and above.
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Is your Auris a petrol or diesel? My "old" diesel Qashqai had a 6 speed auto but it really didn't want to go into 6th much below an indicated 75mph. Fairly thirsty too for a smallish car with a 2.0 diesel engine at around 36mpg averagely.
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It's a 1.33 petrol with manual 6 speed gearbox. Offers similar performance to my previous Corolla 1.4. City driving around Birmingham up to 37mpg - my 6.5 mile commute into work used to take on average 45 minutes in heavy stop/start traffic. On a run I''ve had up to 48/49 with two adults and a full load of luggage, including motorway driving.
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As mentioned earlier in this thread, the current BMW autos are 8 speed.
I had a passenger ride in a colleague's auto version of my F30 320d. It is constantly shifting gears, although it has to be said it does it beautifully smoothly. Interestingly, there is no emissions or economy penalty for going auto, and his real world mpg figures are very similar to mine. The auto is just a tenth slower to 60 than the manual, although feels quicker in daily driving.
But the manual gearbox is one of the car's best features, and I would miss it.
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How many gears? - WillDeBeest
