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What are the advantages and disadvantages of leather seats compared with fabric seats? I imagine that leather seats can be hot and sticky in summer.
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I prefer leather and don't really notice a disadvantage in summer - but then I do use the automatic air conditioning all the time. Those who are reluctant to switch it on might find them less congenial I suppose. Obviously black leather gets hot when parked in hot sun.
It's winter when the cold seats fairly smite at the backside. Wear moleskin trousers, they take the sting out of it until the seat heaters get going;-)
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"I never cared at all about having leather seats, and my husband tried to talk me into them a few times but i wasn't really that interested. I couldn't understand what all the fuss was about. Leather seats, i thought, who cares? However, I bought a new car 10 months ago, and the car i wanted only came with leather seats as it was a luxury model. Now, all I can say is WOW. I didn't know what i was missing they are fantastic. So comfy to sit in and never get dirty. Best of all though, the smell, the wonderful leather smell every time I get into the car, I get ohhhs and ahhhs over the seats everytime someone gets in and sits in them. I just loooove them now and wouldn't have anything else ever again. The only downside is the smug look on my husbands face when we get into the car together LOL.
Go on go for it you wont regret it :)
p.s Get the leather protection, I think its worth it".
From Yahoo!
Leather = Luxury, geddit.
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Elderly relations. carrying children / grandchildren........wipe clean.
The rest of the time it is worth the difference except when the sun has been on them for a few hours...........living is Scotland it is not really an problem.
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Leather:
so hot in cars left in sun you burn your legs when wearing shorts
so cold in winter your assets freezzzzzzzze
No leather chairs at home:
Modern fabrics are wonderful and clean easily using a carpet cleaner.. takes 5 mins.
For messy children a degree of discipline (when a child I never messed up seats) or seat covers work perfectly.
Leather is for old buffers who like to think their car is their club... only 2 centuries out of date.
Save the planet : grow fewer cattle ..:-)
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changed my A3 for another recently, and after rich blue leather (heated) seats they're now cloth trim (heated). Not disappointed. You always slip or certainly move around on leather, but cloth has a natural grip. Far more comfortable, although nowt looks as good as leather.Had a quote of £1,200 to "leather" the car and am now glad I didn't go for it!
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I think I preferred the cloth seats in our A3 to the leather ones titled as standard in the A4; decent cloth will,unless abused, stand up to wear just as well as leather IMO. Having said that since 2004 all bar one of 'my' cars have had it. Some because the leasing co insisted (cloth trimmed 535d anyone!!) , or rather the predicted residuals of the cloth version were so low it was cheaper to spec leather. Some (A4 and current LEC) only came with leather - as these were cars I'd paid for I'm sure if leather hadn't been standard the dealers would have played the residuals card quite heavily to sell the upgrade...
I still dont think I'd pay for it on any midsize or smaller car though; in some cases the leather is barely identifiable as a natural product - that fitted to the previous shape Megane being a prime example - but in any case I just don't think it's worth paying extra for
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>> Leather is for old buffers who like to think their car is their club... only
>> 2 centuries out of date.
I agree with that. It fits me perfectly. You forgot the walnut dash.
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>> >> Leather is for old buffers who like to think their car is their club...
>> >>only
>> >> 2 centuries out of date.
>> I agree with that. It fits me perfectly. You forgot the walnut dash.
+1.
It's a taste thing actually, nothing to argue about. Seats can be perfectly comfortable and serviceable with a suitable textile, or leather. The seat fabric in the boss's Civic looks as if it might be made from recycled carrier bags, but I never give it a thought, the seats are well designed, comfortable and as good as they were 10 years ago.
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That is some "Feminine" side your in touch with there Doggles!
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Very true ike, but I likes leather too, I thinks it makes any jamjar a tad special see.
Course, I'm an old git now (60 last week!!) and I remembers the likes of Wolseley n' VP with their leather ints.,
and the light grey headlining instead of that naff plastic stuff in Lud's ole Skoda.
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I must say the leather seats in our Saab are very comfortable, and I wouldn't call them sticky in summer although they can be hot if the car's been left in the sun while you've been walking in shorts.....
The Saab ones do however have heating for the winter. Admittedly takes a while to have any effect, so they do feel pretty cold to start with which isn't helped by the fact that we leave the car outside, and it's more often than not below zero here in Austria in the winter. And for those hot summer days, they have a ventilation system which provides cool air to the squab and back. However, they would have been an expensive option.
I would not have specced leather seats through choice, but now I've got them I like their comfort and the fact they are easy to clean. They seem to adapt to your own body temperature, and even without the fan on it's rare to feel too hot in them unlike fabric. The problem is, that some cars of certain specs don't give you the option of fabric or leather. As with drug-dealer darkened rear windows, which are gradually being forced upon us lower and lower down the spec range (mid range Golfs etstatesfor example), you don't always get a choice.
And we've just ordered our first ever leather suite for the lounge, although I'm still not 100% convinced that for a lounge they are as comfortable than fabric.
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The quality of the leather used in car seats varies enormously, the leather that came with the Altea clearly came off Siberian mammoths - hard thick unyielding leather that had been cured and treated by marching the russian army over it. Then painted with shiny black gloss paint.
Awful stuff
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In the early days of motoring in the likes of a Rolls Royce, the front seats were leather for durability, and the rear seats were fabric for comfort.
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>> In the early days of motoring in the likes of a Rolls Royce, the front
>> seats were leather for durability, and the rear seats were fabric for comfort.
>>
Never mind the early days, I remember in the '80s that in a number of my Dads company cars velour was a cost option up there in price, if not more than, leather for BMW and MB!! I seem to also remember that for the Volvo 740 GLE estate you got either velour or leather depending on the exterior colour chosen.
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A car with leather seats may be comfortable... but the same car would probably be even more comfortable with cloth. Having said that as long as the leather is a supple type (unlike Zero above) I'd go for leather every time as I like the look and it's so easy to clean after a run to the tip.
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In my experience
Pros of leather
Looks nice
Smells nice
Easy to clean and freshen up.
Cons of leather
Horribly cold in winter unless you have heated seats
Can be painfully hot in summer
You either slide around on it or stick to it.
It is not something I would ever pay extra for personally, but many love it.
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I have leather seats and they are great. Leather is soft but it's nappa leather. I colleague has an Audi A4 with leather and that leather is certainly cheaper - it is very hard and feels a bit cheap.
Cold seats not a problem - mine are heated. In fact most cars with leather have heated front seats. I didn't add the optional heated rear seats as I rarely have rear passengers. And for a small fee I added climate to them so they aren't ever to hot in the summer.
I'd be happy with a quality fabric seat but this car came with leather as standard.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 20 Sep 12 at 10:08
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I vowed never to have leather seats again after having them in my Cavalier Diplomat. Mind you the AC had packed up which probably didn't help matters.
Having said that though, I have leather in my Vectra Elite and it's not too hot in summer (due to the solar glass that's fitted which keeps the interior slightly cooler), and not too cold in winter due to the fast heating pads in the front seats. However the rear seat passengers complain about how cold their bums are ;o)
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It's the quality of the padding underneath the cover that determines whether the seat feels cold.
Cheap plastic seats have cheap plastic foam padding. Proper leather seats have several inches thick of cotton wadding on a sprung base.
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Having, as most, have had both, I thought once leather always leather, but the last couple have had cloth and we've been just fine with it.
But I'm not sure about the "save the planet" comment about leather - I'll bet producing the "fabric" material is at least as bad. Especially if it's some sort of fluffy plastic.
Going to have to look it up now. Sigh.
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For some reason it only used to be an extra 50p to get a first class ticket for my train back from Bath, so I tried it a few times. That meant sitting on posh leather seats rather than the cloth covered ones in cattle class.
Tried to convince myself that they were better, but failed. Although to be fair I think that was as much the shape (too angled) and/or padding (too firm) as the material.
Never had a car with leather, although it is something I used to aspire to before reading this thread :)
Last edited by: Focus on Thu 20 Sep 12 at 11:07
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No doubt a dealer will tell you that not having leather makes a motor 'poverty spec' when it comes to re-selling, but if you plan to keep a car for a while it doesn't really matter.
Personally I prefer to look at leather but sit on cloth - but half-and-half seats are completely pointless.
I do think black leather is not very nice to look at but it seems to be almost the default choice. As everyone here knows to the point of boredom I am trying to find a motor and almost all of them have leather. It's almost impossible to avoid black but I am still trying to find the cream alternative, combined with an exterior colour that isn't black or dark grey.
Which brings me to the important point - maintenance.
Too many cars I have looked at have scratched and creased leather - which I do not regard as 'patina', simply neglect. If you go for leather, particularly if it's a light colour, you need to allow time and money for maintenance. Most polish firms do a horribly sweet-smelling leather cleaner and conditioner these days but none of them are very good in my experience. You need to find Connolly's Hide Food and put up with expending the elbow-grease, or a substance called Gliptone Liquid Leather that you can buy on the net. I have, of course, no connection with either company...
ps: for the first time ever, I was timed out while writing this. Have I missed something?
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My Senator 3.0cdi had an all Leather interior, but the middle area of the Squabs on the front seats was like "brushed" Leather almost Suede-effect. This never got hot in Summer or Icy in Winter! I suppose it had the same effect as turning the Leather into a fabric.
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>>ps: for the first time ever, I was timed out while writing this. Have I missed something?
No, I mentioned this a couple of days ago! - my first log-in of the day only lasts around two minutes, after that it`s fine! - still doing it now!
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Leather or cloth they need some classy seat covers. Can't decide between the Hawaiian and the neo camouflage myself, or there's the giraffe. Decisions decisions.
www.seatcoversunlimited.com/Hawaiian-p-16161.html
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Thu 20 Sep 12 at 12:01
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Very slight topic drift follows. I was recently idly speccing up an Audi A4 on their website and came across the heated and ventilated front seats option. A mere snip at £4,000 the pair - yes, Four Grand to have a climate controlled backside - amazing.
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>> Very slight topic drift follows. I was recently idly speccing up an Audi A4 on
>> their website and came across the heated and ventilated front seats option. A mere snip
>> at £4,000 the pair - yes, Four Grand to have a climate controlled backside -
>> amazing.
>>
As I mentioned, my Saab has similar seats, also both front seats are electric, the driver's with a memory. Apparently, if they need replacing as a separate component, they cost an eye-watering £5,500 each......which is around 12 times more than webuyanycar valued my car at!
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>> an Audi A4 on their website and came across the heated and ventilated front seats option. A
>> mere snip at £4,000 the pair
It too noticed when pricing up car options that climate seats were a lot on an Audi. Leather was standard on the Passat CC GT and the front seats are heated. For a mere £165 extra (or thereabouts) I specified the addition of climate seats. Seemed a reasonable cost to me. Now are climate seats in my car the same as the £4000 ones in an Audi? No idea.
The current VW CC GT hasn't the option of simple climate seats (i.e. cooled). They also come with the massage function too no. So cost more.
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>> A mere snip at £4,000 the pair - yes, Four Grand to have a climate controlled backside - amazing<<
Can get an arf decent Mit Lancer estate for that-sort of money.
:}
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>> Leather or cloth they need some classy seat covers. Can't decide between the Hawaiian and
>> the neo camouflage myself, or there's the giraffe. Decisions decisions.
>>
>> www.seatcoversunlimited.com/Hawaiian-p-16161.html
Oh come on, whats the matter with you? choice? it has to be Zebra Fur - no question.
www.seatcoversunlimited.com/Zebra-Fur-p-16167.html
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hehe! I had neo-Leopard in my caribbean cruiser (Zephyr 4 mrk 3) in the 1970's
:(
Last edited by: Dog on Thu 20 Sep 12 at 14:55
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>> . Most polish firms
>> do a horribly sweet-smelling leather cleaner and conditioner these days but none of them are
>> very good in my experience.
I used to treat the MX-5s seats with AutoGlym Leather Cleaner and Balm every few months. The leather was just starting to look tatty on the driver's seat, but one application restored them to almost new, and it kept them looking like it.
Nice smell as well.
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I once told an ex-Girlfriend that the Leather in her car needed feeding regularly - next time I opened the door the seats were covered in grass! ;-)
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For such a 'must have' feature (depending on whom you believe, of course) leather is tremendously variable. The Swedes do it beautifully - thick and supple, probably helped by the perfectly-judged padding underneath - but then they do fabric well too. The fabric driver's seat of my S60 still cleans up well after 130,000 miles; it's just the curious vinyl corner pieces that are looking tired.
Conversely, the LEC has black leather inside and it doesn't feel luxurious at all, merely functional. It should wear well, and it was comfortable enough in what hot weather we had this summer, but the seats of the (otherwise horrible) A160 courtesy car I wrote about here were more welcoming, and covered in nice, thick, grippy fabric that would have graced a much more expensive car.
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Does your LEC have real leather or Mercedes fake leather?
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IIRC from my S211 (albeit an early one) only the classic came with the option of 'Artico' fake leather; Avantgardes came with half leather (perhaps half artico in facelift cars?) with a cost option to full leather or Nappa leather, and Elegnce spec being cloth upgradable to leather or Nappa. In the current model the fleet special 'Executive SE' comes with artico, the avantgarde leather and the sport half artico half suede (possibe even fake suede, whatever that's called!). Only upgrade is to leather I believe.
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Real, RTJ, not the MB Artex or Amtico or whatever the 'artificial leather' (don't get that - means as much as 'artificial meat') is called. (Yes, I know it's Artico.) It has the 'ruffled' leather panels in the doors, which, curiously, feel more luxurious than the seats themselves - perhaps they can be softer because they don't have to be so hardwearing.
There was a perforated Nappa leather option, as well as a fabric-Artico combination, but neither was very common among the cars I looked at; even lighter-coloured leather was rare, even though I think it suits the MB aesthetic better. The airport taxi firm I use regularly has some old (2004ish) E saloons, whose grey perforated leather is wearing well after 250,000 miles, so perhaps I'm still wearing mine in.
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99% of the difference between leather and fabric is cosmetic and personal preference.
The one exception I have found is that child vomit is easier to clean from leather.
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I have full leather on the Accord and of course the seats are heated ...never slip or slide and the seats are electrially adjusted .
I would never want to go back to fabric...
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Our car has heated leather/faux suede seats in a grey colour. They aren't the very best but they are pretty good. Leather is comfortable and hard-wearing, and when quite worn usually looks better than leather-style plastic which gets tatty looking. It smells better than plastic too. Fabric is comfortable but hard to clean, tatty when worn and absorbs things like tobacco smoke and vomit.
Some people object to leather on specious bunny-hugging grounds. My youngest daughter used to. But for me leather is the top option if there's any choice, every time. When I was a child it was what car seats were faced with in this country. Fabric was commoner in America and on the continent.
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My brother and his wife are vegan. So even shoes are not leather. So I like pointing out his steering wheel in his VW is leather ;-)
I do wonder how the seats in my VW will wear. The leather is nice and soft so might it not last. I don't really care. They look fine after nearly a year but then I've only done about 10,000 miles.
Until I got the car I hadn't realised the seats being Nappa leather, meant it was one of the better quality leathers to be used in a car. You live and learn. I'd assumed a car that came with leather as standard would use the cheaper stuff. Although the lower spec version of the car (non GT) has the option of cheaper leather or the more expensive Nappa leather. The Alcantara leather is £1160 but Nappa is £1655... and the climate/massage option is now nearly £400 extra!
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 20 Sep 12 at 16:05
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>> I do wonder how the seats in my VW will wear. The leather is nice
>> and soft so might it not last. I don't really care. They look fine after
>> nearly a year but then I've only done about 10,000 miles.
>>
Nappa was (is) a less hard wearing material I think - look at how tatty old BMWs with Nappa interiors look. Though of course that might be a funtion of how a typical buyer of an old BMW looks after it... I'm sure yours will be fine for the duration of the lease - after that neither you nor VW I suspect really care :-) It'll also depend how much of the seat is actually covered in leather. I remember uproar on the VW forums when it became widely 'known' that the £2k or so leather seats on a Mark 4 Golf were mostly plastic. The seat facings were leather according to VW but it was rumoured that that didn't include the headrests or even the bolsters!!
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I have full leather on the Accord...
What, even the backs and sides? Or is is 'leather faced' like everyone else's?
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What, even the backs and sides?
As I said Will, full leather seats , the front and rear arm rests on the doors and front central rest are all leather trimmed as well . This is the top of the range Honda 2.4 petrol, EX spec.
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>> The one exception I have found is that child vomit is easier to clean from
>> leather.
>>
Not from ventilated seats with thousands of holes ;-)
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>> The seat facings were leather according to VW but it was rumoured that that didn't include
>> the headrests or even the bolsters!!
All of the seats surfaces including bolsters are nappa in mine. The sides of the seats are not. And neither are the headrests.
I can't see these being hard wearing - the leather is so soft. And nice for it. I only have two more years with the car. I'll have my next new car around now probably... in 2014.
>> Not from ventilated seats with thousands of holes ;-)
I did wonder that with mine with all the little holes :-) I'm not sure I'd use much in the way of liquid to clean the seats either with a heating element in the base and back of the front seats!
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Well, I don't know whether L'escargot will find everybody's answers interesting, but I certainly do.
As posted elsewhere, I expect to be replacing my (t)rusty old Ford in the near future. I'm thinking seriously about a Subaru estate of some variety. And I'm finding that a lot of the more interesting ones have leather seats.
I've never had a vehicle with leather seats before (though the Austin A60 that my parents got back in the 1960s did have some sort of leather seats) - and am pretty apprehensive about getting one. DP's post above pretty much sums up my fears about the cons of leather, and as for the pros - well, the look and smell don't do a lot for me, and I've never found it difficult to keep cloth seats clean.
So it's interesting to read other people's thoughts, and to find that quite a few people find fabric more comfortable, despite the fact that manufacturers seem intent on pushing leather on buyers as being the better option. It's all a bit like the perverse enthusiasm they have for alloy wheels and low profile tyres.
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>>. It's all a bit like the perverse enthusiasm they have for alloy wheels and low profile tyres.
Sort of - the differences being that you can see wheels and tyres, and although fancy ones have no utility at all, people who perceive these things as a way to show off would put those first.
I hate them as it happens, I've had the 18" wheels on the Outlander for the last three months but the all-season 70 profile tyres on 16" steel rims will be back on soon and I can stop worrying about bending the wheels in a pothole (and the tyres cost half as much so I'd rather wear those out than the originals at £180 each).
Both fancy wheels and leather seats of course are "added value" - like metallic paint, a profit opportunity. Very few extras cost the manufacturer more than a few dollars extra in the build.
I certainly wouldn't pay Audi prices for leather upgrades - absolutely mad.
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In Ireland, at least, Subarus are imported with fabric seats and reupholstered in leather locally if a customer orders the option.
AFAIK, its the same distributor for Ireland and UK, so I imagine the same applies in the UK market.
I say this because I recently test drove a Subaru XV that had been upholstered in cream leather. The job was beautifully done, and the end result very agreeable to sit in. Certainly in a different league to FiL's factory-finished Volvo XC60, or even the 520D he had before it.
(For the record, the Legacy is an ex-demo, and came with the standard black fabric interior which is comfortable, grippy, and very servicable, but certainly doesn't look as good as the leather option. That said, it would cost €2200 to have Subaru redo my car, and I can think of better things to spend the money on...)
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>> In Ireland, at least, Subarus are imported with fabric seats and reupholstered in leather locally
>> if a customer orders the option.
Thanks, Gromit.
I may be wrong, but I don't think that is the way it works in the UK. Leather is standard in many trims.
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The holes are very small preventing any chunks falling through and the vomit viscosity tends to keep it out of the holes.
Bet you're glad you asked.
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Fabric over leather for me!
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No small children to worry about vomiting - but useful to know. Thanks No F'in Manual 2 Read... I did wonder where the name came from until today. Makes sense. Similar to my current project. No training, no experience.... so design it for us.
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>>I did wonder where the name came from until today
Well now you know. Feel free to plagiarise, you'll find it a useful term to use when ever faced by the puerile, ill-considered and unhelpful RTFM.
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Having helped in testing and writing parts of TFM, it depresses me that people never RTFT
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>>it depresses me that people never RTFT
I couldn't agree more.
By the way, did you see this bit on the Apple Forum??
"If you’re doing a straight update to iOS6, a backup will prevent you from losing any data in case something goes bad down the line"
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I dont recall a forum being a manual?
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>..it depresses me that people never RTFT
Many years ago I was the Team Lead for a software support group.
The number of times I overheard techies from Business Partners calling us to read the manual to them was amazing - until we started charging for "How-to" calls.
"Hello, this is Fred from Acme Computer. I'm at Company A installing a system. Can you tell me what the format of the xxyy command is please?"
"Well, all systems are shipped with manual pages installed on the hard drive. You just type 'man xxyy' and it will tell you all the flags and options with examples of common usage."
"Ah, We deleted the man pages to save space."
"OK, pop the documentation CD that came with the system into the CD drive and run it from there."
"I left the CDs in my car and it's raining."
"Bye!"
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>>
>> "Bye!"
Must have been before the days of the tear off contract you could fax them.
"that will be 1000 pounds plus vat please."
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 20 Sep 12 at 20:48
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>> The holes are very small preventing any chunks falling through and the vomit viscosity tends
>> to keep it out of the holes.
>>
>> Bet you're glad you asked.
Mercedes have fan ventilated seats, blows the puke out of the holes again.
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>>Mercedes have fan ventilated seats
The Phaeton too. A most strange feeling the first time one wears shorts while driving.
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>>>> Mercedes have fan ventilated seats
>> The Phaeton too. A most strange feeling the first time one wears shorts while driving.
That's how mine work.
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>>Mercedes have fan ventilated seats<<
That would come in handy for us Vegetarians.
:-D
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The X1 had a leather interior - couldn't really take to its plank like comfort. The wife's V50 RDesign has nice soft leather seats - seem dreadfully thin but are superb. Her MX5 had really old fashioned leather seats. Nice. The 3 Series has half leather. Always seemed to me as rather pointless - but the they're OK.
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I liked the seats in my Passat which were leather, but the bit you sit on was faux-suede called alcantera or similar.
The current A8 seats are 'fine' nappa leather all over, which I suppose looks better and is easier to clean. Never had problem with the sun on them, yes they get hot, but they don't hold much heat, so soon become acceptable once the cool air has blown over them.
Last edited by: sooty tailpipes on Thu 20 Sep 12 at 20:14
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>> I liked the seats in my Passat which were leather, but the bit you sit on was faux-suede
>> called alcantera or similar.
A low spec seat then and not the nappa leather which cost a bit more.
>> Never had problem with the sun on them, yes they get hot, but they don't hold much heat,
>> so soon become acceptable once the cool air has blown over them.
Surely you want cool air blowing through them too?
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 20 Sep 12 at 22:08
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>>
>> A low spec seat then and not the nappa leather which cost a bit more.
>>
Not necessarily a low spec seat if finished in part leather/alacantara (sp?); in the previous shape A4 that finish was only available with 'sports' seats which were an extra cost optin and, IME, very comfortable indeed
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>> The current A8 seats are 'fine' nappa leather all over
Those seats sound great, Sooty. Very nice car, the A8. The dashboard is attractive as well, and the whole interior feels up market. Certainly better than cheaper Audis like mine, or their dreadfully plain relations at VW.
There's a wide spread of cars run by the membership of this forum, but I reckon that your A8 and the "LEC" are two of the best for interior ambience.
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>>Certainly better than cheaper Audis like mine, or their dreadfully plain relations at VW.
VW's with nappa leather have superior leather to Audi A4's. Try comparing the leather used.
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>> VW's with nappa leather have superior leather to Audi A4's. Try comparing the leather used.
>>
I never said that it wasn't! :-)
I said that an Audi A8 has a better interior (of which the seats are only a part) than cheaper Audis and than VW's. The dashboard on VW's is so soporifically dull as to be almost a hazard to driving safety.
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Very nice car, the A8.
Certainly is. The taxi firm I mentioned earlier also has an A8L and it's a fabulous place to travel: supple leather, room to waggle hooves, and a most un-Audilike ride. Very relaxing, and far more comfortable than the plane it takes me from or to.
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>> The one exception I have found is that child vomit is easier to clean from
>> leather.
>>
Unless the vomit contains Ribena and the leather / stitching is cream. then you get clean leather with contrasting purple stitching.
I personally avoid leather but I have had cars where it was supposedly a 'must' for resale.
Incidentally just bought a new car - a Golf TSi 118KW (160PS) DSG Comfortline (Match spec in the UK) here in Aus. I opted for the higher spec cloth and the seats are very comfortable.
Toyed with the idea of the 103KW (140PS) diesel but decided that it would do too many short trips for the DPF and petrol is much cheaper here too (90p/l).
Really impressed by the DSG though, changes gear as if it was psychic - automated clutches are the future, I am a convert (but off-piste re topic).
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>>>just bought a new car - a Golf TSi 118KW (160PS) DSG Comfortline (Match spec in the UK) here in Aus. I opted for the higher spec cloth and the seats are very comfortable.
IC how do you get on with the Golf? I'm changing in the next 3mths and a Match spec diesel is on my list. Seem to remember you were looking at larger cars, what made the Golf suitable to meet that need?
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>> IC how do you get on with the Golf? I'm changing in the next 3mths
>> and a Match spec diesel is on my list. Seem to remember you were looking
>> at larger cars, what made the Golf suitable to meet that need?
>>
>>
You are absolutely right - I was, in fact we went straight from a Subaru test drive to the VW dealer and bought the Golf. Reasoning being mainly that Mrs I_C will be the main driver and loves Golfs, it's big enough for 2 adults and 2 kids and the boot is OK for normal usage. 2 years in Hong Kong have turned me into a public transport user, I might look to buy a larger car for camping trips etc but for now the Golf is 'all the car you really need' to quote many of the reviews.
I liked the look of the Golf estate (wagon here) as a compromise but dealers have unusually good incentives on the Golf (soon to be replaced) hatch so we could get a brand new one for about GBP1,000 more than a year old one with 12K miles on it
So-called premium brands seem exceptionally expensive in Aus - even used, Holdens and Fords depreciate more but nothing like they do in the UK. I see GM pushing Opel as its premium brand as do PSA with Peugeot/Citroen (how I laugh...). You know they want GBP70K for a Citroen C6 ?
I'm seriously impressed by the performance of the twin-charger TSi engine and the DSG is so much nicer than any other small auto I've driven. They seem to have addressed criticism of hesitation at junctions etc, of course I've read the reliability comments on the internet so we'll have to wait and see.
I was in two minds whether to get the 140PS/103KW diesel, the price premium is about GBP1,800 here and diesel fuel is about 10% more expensive (still under GBP1 a litre mind). In the end it was the likely usage for short journeys in stop/start traffic which swayed me towards the TSi.
You can get the diesel Subaru at a significant premium here in Aus, the popular auto 2.5 boxer petrol felt slow and thirsty whilst the 3.0 was pricey and even thirstier. Petrol is cheap here but not free... Also the VW interior is SO much nicer than anything else in its class short of an Audi (IMHO of course).
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>>>have unusually good incentives on the Golf (soon to be replaced) hatch
Yes that's what attracted me in addition to the usual Golf plus points. Many thanks for the feedback on yours. One is certain to stay on my shortlist... particularly the Match model which has many of the "luxury" touches of a more prestige car.
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>> >>>have unusually good incentives on the Golf (soon to be replaced) hatch
>>
>> Yes that's what attracted me in addition to the usual Golf plus points. Many thanks
>> for the feedback on yours. One is certain to stay on my shortlist... particularly the
>> Match model which has many of the "luxury" touches of a more prestige car.
>>
Yes the Match spec is excellent, here it's the 'comfortline' and has a few things the UK Match doesn't like hill-hold, dual climate control and DSG (and the option of the twin-charger TSi) but it lacks the better stereo, DAB and park assist. The nice thing is that the estate is the same spec so unlike the UK it isn't deficient in spec compared to the hatch.
Reverse park seems less common in Aus and isn't fitted as standard on many cars, since European cars take a while to get here if optioned-up we went for a retrofit which is OK.
I'd certainly look to get a 2.0TDi Match if I was in the UK, I've driven the 1.6TDi in basic S spec in the UK and it was fine, but the 2.0 with 6 gears (or DSG) is not much less economical in the real world and is a lot livelier IMHO. I might even consider leather trim too although they've dropped the red/brown colour I liked....
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned when it comes to the question of leather or fabric seats is ... dog hairs!!
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The only leather seats I have encountered were in the Olympic BMWs. The beige looked gorgeous, but I became paranoid about dropping - Cadburys - chocolate crumbs on them. The black was much easier to keep clean.
The seats were comfly enough, though my Olympic spec, left hand drive trousers were apt to slide about a bit.
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... my Olympic spec, left hand drive trousers...
}8---( )
Matron!
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AH!!! LOL
There was a large batch of female Gamesmaker trousers wrongly labeled as mens. They had the fly on the wrong side. You could have got them changed,
Got your letter from David on monday BTW?
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Indeed I do have a letter from Dave. When I first got the letter I assumed I was in some sort of trouble as officialdom seldom writes for any other reason, but I was quite pleased to receive it. A nice gesture, I thought.
They told me the trews were 'unisex'. The only male in our group with chaps trousers had unfeasably long legs. I soon got used to using my left hand for the zip!
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>> gorgeous, but I became paranoid about dropping - Cadburys - chocolate crumbs on them.
I will never be able to face another oaty ceareal crunch bar again.
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>> One thing that hasn't been mentioned when it comes to the question of leather or
>> fabric seats is ... dog hairs!!
Dogs do not belong in cars! ;-)
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Well, there have been enough negative opinions about leather seats to put me off them. So, if and when I order a Volvo V40 I won't be specifying the £900 leather faced seats "upgrade". I was hoping to be able to get away from the method of construction of the standard fabric seats which have pieces of "synthetic T-tec" trim sewn on top of the main pieces of fabric. The result is to give visible stitching and visible edges of the fabric in some parts. I just wish you could still get velour seats (which have no visible stitching) like those in my trusty (but showing signs of age) 2003 Focus Ghia. Seat fabric these days is much harder and rougher by comparison.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Fri 21 Sep 12 at 08:37
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Radical suggestion, I know, l'Es, but why not try both and see which you prefer?
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>> Radical suggestion, I know, l'Es, but why not try both and see which you prefer?
>>
What would we talk about then?
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I wouldn't be without leather, particularly as I have two Cocker Spaniels.
The leather seats in my Accord are beautifully soft and hard wearing. I just wipe them over with a damp cloth and then use leather wipes to bring them up like new. When I had fabric covered seats I used tp spend an inordinate amount of time trying to get dog hairs out of them.
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What would we talk about then?
Fuel prices, speed cameras, benefit scroungers, immigration, the delights of the Mitsubishi Lancer... Ah, I see what you mean. Carry on, l'Es. Have you considered sharkskin?
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>> What would we talk about then?
>>
>> Fuel prices, speed cameras, benefit scroungers, immigration, the delights of the Mitsubishi Lancer...
Worthy of its own site I feel.
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at risk of returning to topic .... Neighbour finally found the "weekend" car he's been hunting for 18 months - and it's got a gorgeous cream leather interior. It's an '02 plate Passat Estate V8 auto,with dazzling blue paintwork. Apparently only 260 (?) of 'em wit that engine were ever produced. Done 108k miles and purrs as you'd expect. The leather completes the picture. He paid £2,500, and it does early 30s mpg on a decent run.
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Wasn't that a 'W8' engine ?
did it find its way into other cars - the Phaeton maybe ?
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Fri 21 Sep 12 at 12:49
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I think the Passat W8 4Motion was the only car to use it. So only about 10,000 sold worldwide.
But isn't it related to the W16 in the Bugatti Veyron?
It's a very complex engine. Probably why it seems cheap.
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And the W12 variant was in a lot more cars.
Audi A8L W12
Bentley Continental GT
Bentley Continental Flying Spur
Spyker C12 LaTurbie
Spyker C12 Zagato
Volkswagen Phaeton W12
Volkswagen Touareg W12
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>> But isn't it related to the W16 in the Bugatti Veyron?
>>
Not according to Wikipedia, which reckons it shares components with the VR5 and VR6 engines. That makes sense time wise, since the Bugatti went on sale much later and I can't see much cachet in launching the worlds fastest most powerful production car with an engine related to one from a family car :-).
Mind you, Wikipedia also reckons they sold 10k a year, presumably mostly to the US. If company car tax hadn't gone all emissions based then I'd have had one in a shot - they weren't *that* expensive from memory, though I suspect fuel economy in the teens would have become tiresome, if nothing else just because of the number of trips to the petrol station!
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The W8 is half a W16. The two banks of the W engines are based on the VR6 design. Even sharing some components.
www.eskimo.com/~riffraff/files/W_engines.pdf
According to that PDF amongst others.
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I have to say I was surprised, though digging deeper it appears that the W16 has banks of cylinders at 90 degree while the W8 has them at 72 degrees. The W12 also has them at 72 degrees.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W16_engine
Based on that I'd say that the engines were different, but shared some components' or at least dimensions. Does Bugatti really have parts fom a Passat in it though; I'd rather hoped the specs and materials would be higher - puts me right off ;-)
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The official VW PDF I link to appears to say they are related. I didn't spoof the document.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 21 Sep 12 at 13:48
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Related I agree, but I think it's going bit far so say its half a W16 :-)
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Too late to edit, but meant to also add that, if anything, since the W16 was launched after the W8 it's two of them bolted together, except as the cylinder bank angles differ it can't be.
Amazing though how modular design means that such low volume engines as the V5/6 andW8/12/16 ever became viable - great news IMO. Just a shame that large capacity engines are being killed off for most off us by emissions legislation. V8s are long gone from the mainstream, and V/straight 6s are following. Just look at BMWs latest range - a 528i is a blown 4. It's not that long ago that a 5 series had a 6 cylinder engine as entry level, and a V8 appeared further up the range :-(
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>> Too late to edit, but meant to also add that, if anything, since the W16
>> was launched after the W8 ...........
Yes, yes, yes, but what sort of seat material have they got?
;-)
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Twice as much seating I think, or is that half. Yes, definitely half...ish. 5 seats plays 2. Finest Nappa leather in the W8, not sure about the Bugatti but its probably OK ;-)
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I drove a 1929 Riley and a 1946 Rover both with original leather.
The Riley's had been restained badly and on a hot day it stained my shirt. The pneumatic suit cushions were incapable of keeping my end up.
The Rover had brown seats and were beautifully patinad. But a Rover of the same era had Bedford cloth which was much more comfortable and warmer.
After that I had: Rover 75 (1953) with red leather - slid on the front bench
Rover 110 with blue leather - ditto.
Mercedes 260E (124) - burned legs badly in shorts in SA sun. Froze my legs badly on frosty mornings.
Fiesta Mark 4 Ghia with black leather - horribly cheap and hard.
My next car (hybrid) is almost certain to be cloth.
Last edited by: madf on Fri 21 Sep 12 at 14:14
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The pneumatic suit cushions were incapable of keeping my end up.
Pardon? Is this some piece of oldie equipment I didn't even know I was going to need?
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Before my time but in the 1920s cars were fitted with pneumatic cushions which you inflated. to your desired pressure . They were supposed to be more comfortable....
Of course, the interior car temperature changed so did the degree of hardness and the rubber of those days did not last and they leaked.. etc etc.. My uncle (sorry one of my 12 uncles) had a 1930s Lagonda tourer with them : he carried a footpump just for them!
Last edited by: madf on Fri 21 Sep 12 at 16:10
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I've sat on those 20s/30s pneumatic seats. They were hardly ever right. Better when soft and squashy though. Lower too.
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My first car, a 1936 Wolseley 14, had pneumatic seats.
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My first car, a Triang, had a steel seat.
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What makes me laugh is how Mercedes Benz can sell you a car with vinyl seats (no one else would dare these days) but get away with it by calling it 'artificial leather'. I've had real and fake leather seats in Mercs, and would not pay extra for leather over velour. My S-Max has alcantara with leather edges and climate (heat and cooling) which just about covers all bases and works quite well in practice.
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Citroens used to have what amounted to deckchairs. I may be wrong but I think British-spec Light 15s had conventional leather seats. But my 1948 lhd example, which had two carburettors and a steering wheel with four spring spokes, was otherwise post-war French poverty spec, and had thin flat fabric seats that were nevertheless very comfortable. My Dyane had practical removable plastic-upholstered bench seats, each comfortable but only for four people including the driver. Location wasn't good and given the thing's cornering attitudes an unwary front seat passenger could fall out of the sky on the driver from time to time, a bit dangerous in mid-corner. The Bijou, really a two-seater, had thin grey plastic deckchair front seats that were comfortable but disintegrated and collapsed. The roof lining came unstuck from the GRP roof too and 'balanced on my head like a mattress on a bottle of wine'*. It would hardly pull 60 on the flat too, reluctant little beast, although the engine was quite revvy and I saw 90 going down Cleeve Hill in Gloucestershire once.
A friend had a head-on with a Ford Consul at the bottom of Cleeve Hill in his 2CV once. He was OK, amazingly, but the 2CV didn't look too clever and didn't survive.
*Bob Dylan, 'Your Brand New Leopardskin Pillbox Hat'.
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The first car I ever drove was a 1953 Slough built Light Fifteen..
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And I bet you wish you still had it.
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Did it have the extended boot lid that ruined the car's lines Rob? In the end even the French-built ones had it.
The Light 15 was a fabulous car, quirky of course but fast, safe and comfortable with brilliant Citroen brakes. Mine didn't last long, alas - I was young, gung-ho and ignorant where maintenance and restoration were concerned - but I loved it dearly. The other wonderful thirties classic, unfortunately even more rust-prone than the Avant-Voleur, was the Lancia Aprilia.
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>>. The Bijou, really a two-seater, had thin grey plastic deckchair front seats that were
>> comfortable but disintegrated and collapsed. The roof lining came unstuck from the GRP roof too
>> and 'balanced on my head like a mattress on a bottle of wine'*.
>>
I didn't know you had a Bijou, Lud. They are the rarest A-series these days, and of course they were rare enough in their day, saddled by a high price and heavy body.
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>> rarest A-series these days, and of course they were rare enough in their day, saddled by a high price and heavy body.
It was a bit of a dog really. Meant as a cute second car for the wives of DS owners I reckon. It had that DS single-spoke steering wheel and looked all right in a chubby way. I think Colin Chapman had some input into the body design. Not the only bad car buy I have made though by any means.
A proper 2CV was a better car in every possible way.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sat 22 Sep 12 at 19:08
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>> What makes me laugh is how Mercedes Benz can sell you a car with vinyl
>> seats (no one else would dare these days) but get away with it by calling
>> it 'artificial leather'.
FWIW the BMW E60/61 was available with fake leather, though the F10 5 series comes with leather as standard. Not sure what you do if you're a vegetarian though - buy a 3 series? We could have selected artificial leather as an option on the Up! as well, though of course we didn't. I agree alcantara is probably the most comfortable seat covering, in conjunction with harder wearing leather bolsters, but it still doesn't wear as well as cloth or leather I don't think
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On balance I prefer leather. Just easier to keep clean mainly. Also, when I smoked, if you dropped your cherry end on it you had a good chance of putting it out before any damage was done as opposed to velour which would always singe.
Can't say it would be a deal breaker for me if a car had leather or fabric seats but some seat fabrics are horrible scratchy nylony things which for me anyway would make the car less appealing.
As for the hot / cold thing, well, maybe, but it has never really bothered me. Generally I keep my trousers on to drive so it rarely becomes an issue.
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I generally prefer leather but it has to be decent quality.
The leather option when I bought my Chevy was dire. Thick, painted stuff that would obviously last 100 years with a coat of Dulux every now and again. I went for the cloth.
My XJ has the optional Ivory leather which is superb.
I wonder if you can get a Tataguar without dead cow interior for the Indian market?
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The Bijou, really a two-seater, had thin grey plastic deckchair front seats...
Can't quite picture this but I dimly remember my mum's 1964 Renault 4, which had basketwork decoration outside and seats consisting of stiff canvas slung from a steel tube frame to form a bench. The driver's side gave way towards the end of the ten years she kept it, and she improvised a repair with a sort of cat's cradle of hairy string; another car best driven with trousers on.
The 4 that replaced it had an upholstered vinyl bench that adjusted for reach at one end only, so it changed angle according to its position. The one that replaced that, in 1981, had individual reclining front seats in red nylon fabric. No leather option as I recall.
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Comparison of leather seats and fabric seats - Manatee
