Friend of the family just bought a car, a 2001 Seicento 900cc.
A quick glance reveals every panel bar the roof has been painted and not especially well.
Its had a crunch on the OSF and the inner wing is clearly still rippled to hell.
More worryingly perhaps, both rear tyres are wearing horribly on the inside but 5mm on the outer tread and the brakes have failed once though came back with some pumping of the pedal.
On the plus side in has a new MOT and a load of tax and 'apparently' its done 50000 miles, which I have my doubts about. It supposedly has full service history though again, the quality of that servicing remains to be seen. The oil is clean but the coolant is brown.
Petrol tank isnt rusty either but teh exhaust is a cheapo one that is somewhat boomy but doesnt seem to leak.
She paid £650 for it and personally I think she was 'done' as she does huge miles but has little money and I have a bad feeling about it, smells iffy if you know what I mean.
Any opinions on what you would do/say if you were me?
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Maybe suggest an AA inspection or similar. "Just to make sure there's nothing which needs attention"...
Then you're just being a helpful friend rather than casting nasturtiums...
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In terms of 'what I'd least like to spend £650 on', a 2001 Fiat would rank pretty high!
If you feel you have to say something, maybe you could advise her to keep going until it needs a repair costing more than the car is worth - and then scrap it, and let you help her find something better. You've bought a lot of old cars, but they seem to work!
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>> then scrap it, and let you help her find something better. You've bought a lot
>> of old cars, but they seem to work!
Some of them ;P
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>>Some of them ;P<<
Current car is going well :-)
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Well she knows Im not keen on it and I asked her after I pointed out what I found on a 10 minute poke about whether she feels good about the car to which she said no. I told her to trust her instincts. I do think she could get her money back on it if she flogged it when the V5 comes through ( if!? ). She is going to get a mate to do a history check and im going to check the MOT history when she gets me the MOT number.
Its looking like it already needs repairs - atleast two new tyres, one immediately as its soon to go to canvas, certainly needs the brake fluid and prob coolant changing and thats before you really start poking about. Both sills have mysteriously been replaced - I wonder why as ive never seen one so rusty that it needed that sort of work doing. Ive got a feeling its had a heck of a clout at some point, maybe bought from scrappy and repaired on the cheap?
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Oh dear, it does sound a bit tired. I have an elderly relative who has had one of those from new and still poodles about in it. Not given him any noticeable bother other than the backrest of the driver's seat collapsing. He's a very big chap though so maybe it shouldn't be too harshly judged. He rather likes it.
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A tired car with an alleged 50k and full history. Given the colour of the coolant, I have my doubts unless Tabasco Sauce is a suitable engine coolant :-/
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Tell her not to go out shopping for expensive things without a chaperone. And that she's just lost £650. You won't be popular.... On the other hand, to say nothing would be safer:)
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I cant tell her shes lost the money, she lives hand to mouth pretty much, care assistants dont exactly get paid well but are expected to do 20k a year in their own cars.
Im fairly confident some lad will come along and give her £600 for it as they are popular with the kids these days.
She was staring dreamily at my car :-p
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If she is expected to do that sort of mileage in her own car her employer should be paying her a mileage/car allowance of some sort, which she should be using to buy a better car.
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There are sometimes cars that have been maintained haphazardly and bashed about a bit, but are still somehow more or less all right. However this one does sound a bit of a snotter. The lady would have done well to consult you before spending money, not after. If she's a friend you could point that out.
Dependiing on the results of any inspection - rust would be the main thing to worry about - you could try getting to grips with the running gear. Perhaps brown coolant isn't the end of the world. But what's the compression like? Is it in proper tune?
She may have a pile of crap, she may have a rough and ugly but sound motor that can run another 50,000 gentle miles. Tell her to ask you first next time.
My two cents' worth.
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>>it already needs repairs - atleast two new tyres, one immediately as its soon to go to canvas<<
How come its got a new MOT then?
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>> >>it already needs repairs - atleast two new tyres, one immediately as its soon to
>> go to canvas<<
>>
>> How come its got a new MOT then?
It only takes a few minutes to swap dodgy wheels with good 'uns for an MOT. I've done it outside a testing station while they watched me (long story).
This does sound dodgy, it's MOT/mileage status history should reveal the truth.
Why do people buy old, second hand cars, like tins of beans off a supermarket shelf, and expect them to be perfect. Look at some of the stories on t'other side and their indignation at being screwed.
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Ex-pizza delivery car ?
They were very popular for that kind of work, cheap to insure and loads of 18-22 years wanging about in them delivering Friday night tea.
900 ? Is that the 903 ohv or had they moved on to a small FIRE engine by then ? The 903 will run for ever as long as you keep the coolant topped up. Lift the oil filler and have a look, if it's a 903 it will look like a mayo factory in there.
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 27 Jul 12 at 20:38
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Dunno about the Fire engine, but I think it was a Seicento that broke its cambelt and holed a piston, terminally of course, in a friend's example. Change that if it has one and you don't know how long the old one has been there. They are unusually short lived, but should be cheap to replace.
If it works the car will be economical on fuel.
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The 903 was a chain drive. Head gaskets were an issue in the Uno but generally, as long as there was something in there to take the heat away it would run and run and run.
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Its 899cc. Pushrod I think?
To be honest, I think she got too excited about it being shiny and forgot that the place she bought it from was a sink estate in Derby. I said to her, in general, nice people own nice cars - not always but more often than not a middle class household selling a cheap car will have looked after it to an extent whereas if you buy an old car from someone with no money, it rather follows that they wont have spent much on it.
Unfortunately she bought the car, then told me. She also didnt inspect it first. I did cringe at that. She already has a Megane which is terminally unreliable and this was to replace it!
I think the problem is, sometimes you can get a little gem for little money, but theres more crap than gold out there.
Ill give her her due, she recognises she may have cocked up, said she will take me along next time!
>>Ex-pizza delivery car ?<<
Perhaps though in the metal you would lean towards ex-scrap car tarted up for quick buck.
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Seicentos and the previous Cinquecentos tended to age very badly - have seen a Cinque gearbox lunch itself at 30k miles.
Have also seen plenty of rotten ones so rustproofing isn't great (or varies a lot).
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If "she does huge miles" why is she spending £650 on an eleven year old car?
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Because she is poor. Care assistants arent well paid.
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>> Because she is poor. Care assistants arent well paid.
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As someone else asked earlier, she must get a mileage allowance though?
Plus, if it's less than the HMRC approved rates, she can claim tax relief on the difference (note she only gets the tax ie 20% of the difference back, not the whole difference). It's easy to claim.
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That scheme was cracking a few years back.
Up to 2 litres it was the standard rate, I bought my V6 SAAB and got 63ppm I think it was at the time.
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She did but is only now doing private work as the agency she worked for wont let her back due to her having surgery on her back, so no mileage allowance for the self-employed stuff.
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If she is required to "do huge miles" and can only afford to spend £650 on an eleven year old Italian car, then perhaps she will have to come to the conclusion that this is not feasible and make a different career choice.
Easy for me to say I know, but perhaps these are the hard facts. Otherwise she is going to be forever chasing her tail.
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Rear wheel alignment £45.00
Coolant flush £10.00 tops you can do that for her.
2 rear tyres £60.00 all in
Forget the body work it's 11 yrs old
Brakes were never good on a fiat when new but get a free check start from there.
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What do you expect for £650?! It's going to be a nail. She hasn't been done. That's what you get for so little money.
AA inspection would be money down the drain as they're £125 at best. Take it to a council MOT station and get it re-checked. If there is anything dangerous then she should take it back and get the full £650 returned as a car shouldn't have any dangerous faults if it has been bought to be used on the road.
I'd see if there are any cheap pcp deals going on Micras and similar. Sometimes they're all of £99 a month and compared to running round in a death trap she'd be better off doing that in the long run I reckon. That seicento could easily cost a fortune in repairs and need replacing again inside of 18 months.
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>> I'd see if there are any cheap pcp deals going on Micras and similar. Sometimes
>> they're all of £99 a month and compared to running round in a death trap
>> she'd be better off doing that in the long run I reckon. That seicento could
>> easily cost a fortune in repairs and need replacing again inside of 18 months.
>>
I would agree with all that. Buying bangers is a mugs game, and certainly not something a woman on her own should take on.
Snag with her getting a PCP is it doesn't sound like her credit worthiness would be good enough, unless someone was prepared to act as guarantor.
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That's what I was thinking - we get offered fiat 500's through work for £99 a month and no deposit from memory.
Wouldnt be my first choice, but if my circumstances changed I would take one as a reliable run around
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I'm sure I've see the new VW Up and / or its SEAT and Skoda equivalents, for £99/mth. But there might be a few hundred pounds deposit.
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Think it was Polos that were that cheap. Honda seemed to have made too many cars so I'd suspect there will be deals on those too.
I think a 99 a month car would be just the job. Many dealers offer 0% over quite long periods too.
I doubt if finance would be that hard to get as manufacturers want to sell cars so I'd expect them to be fairly relaxed unless someone's credit history is really shocking.
I'd also see if any are offering minimum trade in deals of more than she paid as that would be another way of offloading it...
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She is on a low wage 99 a month could be to high for her.Maybe any family who could give her a loan interest free.? Then get writ of the car part exchange.
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>>She is on a low wage 99 a month could be to high for her
£1200/yr which covers depreciation, warranty, MOT expense (doesn't need one) and road tax (for year one at least - if band A, B or C then years 2 and 3 are negligible).
If you're trying to beat that buying a banger, where you cannot afford to lose the money you put into it then she will struggle.
Stu's friend needs to look at the car as a business necessity - a white good. It shouldn't have a name, or be part of the family.
If she can manage around 20p/mile including fuel, insurance, etc. over 20k reliable miles, she'll be doing well.
That's 4 grand a year for transport.
If she's self-employed she needs to make sure she reclaims everything that she can re. tax, and I assume is already claiming any 'tax credits' she is entitled to.
At this level of earnings (unless her partner if she has one is making decent money) you need all the help you can to make it worthwhile to keep working.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 29 Jul 12 at 17:36
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The plot thickens. The vin plate has a number on it but it doesnt match the one on the MOT, its about half as long, plus the V5 states the car is a Citymatic, which this one isnt. Oops.
I have some serious doubts this is is what it says it is.
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Where did she buy it from Stu? Dealer or private? You know where I'm going with this...
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Private, some war zone in Derby via Ebay. I know, I know!
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Think she might be putting this one down to experience......
Any of it payed via paypal?
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I dont know, ill ask her later. I feel ever so bad for her really. Looking at the car, Im not quite sure what the story is, but I dont think it has a happy ending.
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If she's got no comeback on the sale, I would be telling her to get rid. By the description, it sounds like a deathtrap. Better to lose some money and put it down to experience than persevere with it and lose your life. Especially if she's doing a high mileage as you say.
I saw a girl driving a Peugeot 207 on an 07 plate a few days ago, crabbing like mad. The sort of car where you can see the front wheels at the same time as the rear wheels from behind. I wonder how many of these owners know what they're driving?
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Some years gone, my sister's roommate at Uni had a Mini. The car suffered from a certain "vagueness" in its steering and a very poor turning circle, which she used to complain about.
She found out what the problem was come MOT time.
It turned out that the only thing connecting the steering column to the rack was unravelled thread from the floor carpet, wrapped around the rack drive spline and the (detached) UJ at the bottom on the column(!)
The addition of a replacement pinch bolt and five minutes with a Stanley knife and spanner fixed it. I've wondered ever since at the mentality that permits driving around for months in a literal death trap for the sake of a 50p bolt.......
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Keep your nose out, people have to learn the hard way! I Certainly did!.
The FIRE engine is pretty bullet proof, so I doubt she will have problems with that, the cam belt does need doing every 4 years though. I assume it is a FIRE and not one of the earlier push rods?
I agree this car does sound like a dog, but she won't appreciate your comments at this stage.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Mon 30 Jul 12 at 23:01
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Glad you're OK Rats, my wife was asking after you as we blasted past the Trafford Centre this afternoon...
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Dodgy car, what to do? - Runfer D'Hills
