Motoring Discussion > Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. Miscellaneous
Thread Author: DP Replies: 45

 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - DP
Just got back from my Speed Awareness Course, run by AA DriveTech on behalf of Thames Valley Police. I opted for this after being caught at 35 mph in a 30 limit on a local road a couple of months ago.

After a prompt 7:45 AM registration, we were shown to the training room. There were 22 of us on the course, 4 females, the rest male. Age ranges were from mid 30's up to a couple of retired people, with everything in between. Our pleasant and cheerful instructor introduced herself (ROSPA Gold and police advanced instructor), and covered the mandatory health and safety briefing in a satisfactorily sarcastic manner, which instantly had most of the group, myself included, warming to her quite significantly.

The course started with some statistics. We were asked to form into groups and collectively come up with a figure for injuries, serious injuries and deaths on our roads every day, which were then put on to a white board and compared with the actual figures. We were all wildly pessimistic, by the way. :-)

We were then each given a small handset, and had to "vote" on answers to multiple choice questions. The votes were anonymous, but the percentage split was placed next to each answer after the voting had finished, and the results were discussed. The number of people who don't know basics like speed limits on different road types is quite worrying, but there was no mocking or preaching. Instead, the correct answers were simply explained.

There was a fascinating section on police accident investigation, where we were told how accident scenes are reconstructed, what information can be gained, and how apart from the physical evidence at the accident scene, everything from your mobile phone records, the position of your sat nav on the windscreen, and even your blood sugar levels indicating when you last ate, and therefore how alert you are likely to be, are factored in to the decision whether to prosecute you or not.

The next stage covered stopping distances. The reaction distances at various speeds were covered, and we then moved to a video which showed a police class 1 driver in a Vauxhall Omega, on a closed runway performing emergency stops to avoid a cardboard "pedestrian" from 30, 32, 35 and 40 mph. At 30, the car stopped short of the pedestrian (clearly placed to illustrate the point, of course). At all other speeds, it hit the pedestrian with varying degrees of severity, but one statistic that did stick was that at 40 mph, the car was still doing 28 when it hit the pedestrian. At 30, it had stopped with a foot to spare.

The same was repeated at 70, 80, 90 and 100 mph, replacing a pedestrian with a car parked off to one side. The fact that a car takes longer to stop from higher speed is basic common sense, but to see it illustrated is surprisingly powerful.

The part we spent longest on was not actually speed related, but related to leaving appropriate space from the car in front. We were then shown how the lack of this has contributed to some truly horrific road accidents in the past, including the awful M4 Hungerford pileup in 1991, of which we saw a police stop frame reconstruction animation. The instructor actually said that if we took one thing away from the morning, it should be to keep appropriate space from the car in front. The instructor also had a wonderful pop at middle lane motorway hogs, which drew great appreciation from most of the group, sheepish grins from others, and yet more arguing from the idiot at the back who felt the need to try and argue his way around everything presented.

Finally, there were some shots of an actual road accident where a 14 year old child had been struck by a car and either killed or seriously injured (she didn't say which). The location proved particularly interesting, as it started off with a shot from a few hundred yards back up the road, with a traffic officer, the car involved, and a patrol car clearly visible in the road. As each shot moved closer to the scene, you saw something important that wasn't visible in the earlier shots, culminating in the petrol station forecourt that the child ran from, and which simply wasn't visible until you were on top of it.

The four hours went surprisingly quickly, and apart from the aforementioned idiot who clearly had made his mind up that he would learn nothing, and would argue pretty much everything, I think everyone got something out of it. The setting was informal, the instructor very "human", and quite honestly, the preaching, lecturing tone I was expecting couldn't have been more noticeable by its absence.

I still believe there is an over-focus on speeding, and that until this is fixed, we won't be saving as many lives as possible, but it's hard to argue with the factual information provided on these courses. You could see people's preconceptions breaking down within moments of the start by the fact that it was delivered in such an informal and light hearted (certain subject matter notwithstanding) way.

It has certainly made me think about how I drive, and re-educated me on certain things that I had perhaps become a little blase about. Will it turn me into a perfect driver? Of course it won't. Is it a perfect answer? Not even close. But as an alternative to the "punishment" of £60 and 3-points, it's certainly more positive and constructive. The stats reckon the courses result in a 1 in 14 reoffending rate, against a 1 in 4 for the conventional fine and points approach. I must say, I reckon that's believable. But in order to get anything out of it, you really do need to go in with an open mind, and be prepared to learn something. One guy in particular certainly failed to do this.

So, about as far from the miserable experience I was expecting as it is possible to get. I would recommend anyone faced with the choice of this or points to take the course.
Last edited by: DP on Fri 20 Jul 12 at 13:02
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - WillDeBeest
Excellent account, DP, and thanks for taking the time to write it up.

That style of interactive teaching is difficult to teach to teachers but mighty effective when they get it right. Good to see that these courses are being planned in a way that should prompt at least some of the participants into thinking a bit harder - and maybe to talking to their friends, who might find something to think about too.
}:---)
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - zookeeper
i opted for the course about 5 years ago.....36 in a 30 , havnt been done since
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Zero
you haven't been caught yet......

Like most of us. I doubt that anyone on here does not break speed limits at some time or other.

Getting caught is a good knee in the cobblers reminder that you were not paying attention at the time.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - zookeeper
im surprised i was offered the course to be honest, i was undertaking a car in the bus lane :)
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - L'escargot
>> Just got back from my Speed Awareness Course, ..............

How far did you have to travel to get to the venue of the course?
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - DP

>> How far did you have to travel to get to the venue of the course?
>>

Only 6 miles. The course was held in Crowthorne, close to the TRL facility.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Zero
My lads been to that one


Twice!
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Chas
We did a course for safer driving at work. Same instructor from your description and organisation. Almost identical content.

Certainly got some people thinking that had slipped into some pretty awful habits over the years from what they talked about.

The best bit that came from this course is that my company does not expect you to make or take hands free phone calls when driving.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Londoner
Great write up DP!

Of course I agree that we should all pay attention when driving, but sometimes the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak (as the saying goes).

I'm sure we'll be seeing driver aids becoming more mainstream that warn about speed and even upcoming hazards that may be difficult to spot. (Aren't they are already linking automatic gear changes to information from the Sat Nav on some expensive cars?)
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Bill Payer
Was it explained to "the idiot" that if you don't make a positive contribution you can 'fail' the course?

I wonder how many people would get done for speeding if they were zapped on the way home from the course? My guess would be many of them.

Colleague of mne just did one after being caught at 46 when the M42 variable was set to 40. He took it quite well - I'd have been furious as that's nothing to do with safety, it's about traffic management. He did echo the comment that many of the people on the course were clueless about speed limits (in fact he said most of them were pretty clueless about everything motoring related!).
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Westpig
>> He did echo the comment
>> that many of the people on the course were clueless about speed limits

I wonder how many people on these courses are van drivers or were driving a van at the time of being caught. It seems most don't know the van speed limits and/or which vans are restricted to what.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - DP

>> I wonder how many people on these courses are van drivers or were driving a
>> van at the time of being caught. It seems most don't know the van speed
>> limits and/or which vans are restricted to what.
>>

There were 4 van drivers on the course, although the circumstances of individual people's offences weren't discussed. There was also an LGV class 1 driver in the group, who really did know his onions.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Fursty Ferret
Didn't realise the speed cameras on the M42 were switched on. Given the number of people who blast through at 60+ your friend music have been really unlucky to be caught!
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Bill Payer
>> Didn't realise the speed cameras on the M42 were switched on. Given the number of
>> people who blast through at 60+ your friend music have been really unlucky to be
>> caught!
>>
Most of the people on the course had been caught the same way so perhaps they've only recently started using them. I've passed the gantries at 10 MPH over the indicated limit (just moving with the rest of traffic) many times in the past but I haven't since he told me!
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Zero
>> Most of the people on the course had been caught the same way so perhaps
>> they've only recently started using them. I've passed the gantries at 10 MPH over the
>> indicated limit (just moving with the rest of traffic) many times in the past but
>> I haven't since he told me!

You get to know which ones have cameras and which ones don't, plus they are set at the a high threshold. (10%+2mph), so given speedo error you are probably ok at an indicated 50 mph in a 40.

On the M25 the camera placement is variable, Southbound on the variable speed section there is only 1 gantry with cameras between M40 and M4 for example.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 23 Jul 12 at 00:33
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Bill Payer
>> You get to know which ones have cameras and which ones don't, plus they are
>> set at the a high threshold. (10%+2mph), so given speedo error you are probably ok
>> at an indicated 50 mph in a 40.
>>

In that case my colleague was incredibly unlucky to be 'done' for 46 when the variable limit was showing 40. While I recognise a 4MPH over-read is possible, it'd be sensible to ensure you were well on the low side of it.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - henry k
>>On the M25 the camera placement is variable, Southbound on the variable speed section there is only 1 gantry with cameras between M40 and M4 for example.
>>
Thanks for the update.
I am commuting to Oxford at present so will pay attention on the way home tonight.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - DP

>> The best bit that came from this course is that my company does not expect
>> you to make or take hands free phone calls when driving.
>>

Our company goes one further and makes it a disciplinary offence to do so.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Zero
I would guess its a breach of Health and Safety.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Westpig
>> I still believe there is an over-focus on speeding, and that until this is fixed,
>> we won't be saving as many lives as possible,

Totally agree.

Sounds like the course is giving you a taster of advanced driving techniques, which can only be a good thing.

Shame this emphasis isn't pushed for general road safety, rather than the dumbing down of everything and the ridiculously simplistic concentrating on speed alone.

 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - TeeCee
>> Shame this emphasis isn't pushed for general road safety, rather than the dumbing down of
>> everything and the ridiculously simplistic concentrating on speed alone.
>>

Yes, but it has to be relevant to the offence. The offence being that you were snapped by a camera at a speed over an arbitrary limit, regardless of the circumstances and the presence or not of other road users at the time.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Westpig
>> >> Shame this emphasis isn't pushed for general road safety, rather than the dumbing down
>> of
>> >> everything and the ridiculously simplistic concentrating on speed alone.
>> >>
>>
>> Yes, but it has to be relevant to the offence. The offence being that you
>> were snapped by a camera at a speed over an arbitrary limit, regardless of the
>> circumstances and the presence or not of other road users at the time.
>>

Sorry, don't know what you mean.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - movilogo
>> blood sugar levels indicating when you last ate

So concentration is better after eating or when driver are hungry?

Lack of concentration is often down to psychological factors which can't be measured.

From the description, it sounds like a good course. If this is offered at a reasonable cost, I think many people will attend.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - WillDeBeest
...but not the ones who already consider their driving beyond reproach - in other words, who don't know what they don't know.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - zookeeper
my sister got done by the same camera three times in one week......she could have been driving whilst banned (technically) till the letters started popping through the door then she cottoned on.....shes a district nurse
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Pat
Why don't they offer these courses, free of charge, as part of the curriculum in the last year at school?

Pat
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Zero
I think they are only of value after you have been driving for a while. Say a year minimum. You could just be given a first license for a year (or two) that would not be renewed until you had done the course.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Avant
That's a really good idea. People, especially young people, who have been driving for a year or so are the ones at most danger because they think they're experienced and therefore know it all.

And many young people either don't need or can't afford to do high mileages in their first years of driving.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Shiny
>> Why don't they offer these courses, free of charge, as part of the curriculum in
>> the last year at school?

Because it's about making money and some people are doing very nicely thankyou.
It's a private sector parasite on the public sector, just like G4S and Capita.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Bromptonaut
>> >> Why don't they offer these courses, free of charge, as part of the curriculum
>> in
>> >> the last year at school?
>>
>> Because it's about making money and some people are doing very nicely thankyou.
>> It's a private sector parasite on the public sector, just like G4S and Capita.

Whoever provides them it costs money to run these things. Even if there were enough appropriately qualified volunteers they'd still need travel expenses. In practice a proper job needs somebody like AA or RoSPA with the organisational expertise to put a consistent package together.

Although I drive only a handful of business miles a year I have an interest in this stuff and helped QA the department's driving on duty policy including attending a RoSPA presentation. Very informative and well put together but to get a guy in Central London for the day would have cost several hundred quid.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Woodster
Sooty, was that you at the back of the course??
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - flo
Was on then course with you. I was one of the HGV drivers in the group (not the 1 who thought he knew more than the 2 tutors) who I thought were 1st class, and you were right it was a quick 4 hours. There were a few occasions that gave me goose pimples. I also think these type of courses should be part of a drivers learning process as they are effective. This was a superb post by yourself and I could not believe it when I came across it as I was telling my wife about it when I came across it. You got the same out of it as I did and I was the HGV driver with my back to you.1st class post DP.

Edited to remove SHOUTING. Welcome, btw
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 3 Mar 14 at 01:43
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Dave_
Welcome, flo. Do stick around, it's a nice place :)

I went on a Call Divert course before Christmas; same police force area, same style of presentation, quite possibly the same location (Upper Heyford).

It wasn't how I expected it to be either, in a good way. The instructor began by asking if we could drive without losing awareness of our surroundings whilst using a phone. Most hands were raised, and a few comments were muttered about paying extra attention to the road to compensate.

Then the instructor asked how many of the 20 or so attendees had been stopped by an officer in a marked police car - around half the hands went up. So, said the instructor, you were observed using your phone for at least 30 seconds by two uniformed police officers in a bright yellow, blue and white Volvo estate and you didn't see it? The other half of the group had been caught by unmarked cars, and were similarly chastened when told that a clean, new, dark blue BMW with five radio aerials, a video camera and two coppers in it should stand out like a sore thumb if you're looking what you're doing...

The overall thrust of the course wasn't simply Stop Using Your Phone Whilst Driving, it was aimed at illustrating how much of your attention it diverts away from the road. If you're lucky all you miss seeing in time is a police car, if you're not then it's a sharp bend, or a car braking hard, or a pedestrian.
Last edited by: Dave_C220CDI on Tue 4 Mar 14 at 20:22
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Mapmaker
>>The overall thrust of the course wasn't simply Stop Using Your Phone Whilst Driving,

Of course, most use of mobile phones in cars isn't illegal. I don't particularly get:

1. Why anybody would ever be so silly as to get caught when all mobiles have a handsfree option, and it costs you a tenner for a thing to attach to the car that will hold your phone.

2. Why it's illegal to use a hand-held phone but not a handsfree phone.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Manatee
I would have kept the thought to myself had I been on Dave's course, but I'm not impressed by the argument that the police car wasn't spotted.

To make sense of that, you would need to know how many people did spot the police car, and escaped; and whether any of trainees would have spotted it even if they had not been on the phone.

I don't do it myself, because I don't need to and it's illegal; but if I thought it was a serious problem I'd be terrified of all the HGVs whose drivers I see holding a phone (usually 8 wheel tippers).
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Westpig
>> 1. Why anybody would ever be so silly as to get caught when all mobiles
>> have a handsfree option, and it costs you a tenner for a thing to attach
>> to the car that will hold your phone.

...because you cannot hear a dicky bird on the damned things
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Bromptonaut
>> 1. Why anybody would ever be so silly as to get caught when all mobiles
>> have a handsfree option, and it costs you a tenner for a thing to attach
>> to the car that will hold your phone.

A bluetooth set of the type that goes in/over your ear also starts at around a tenner. Many cars, particularly up market models, have integrated bluetooth. Yet riding round London it's common to see drivers of £50k+ cars yakking away on a handheld.

>> 2. Why it's illegal to use a hand-held phone but not a handsfree phone.

Because there's got to be line somewhere. Both have potential to distract because of conversation but hand held impairs control whatever. You can often identify a driver on the phone by his erratic line.

Texting and browsing are even more scary. If I were Minister for Transport I'd treat that offence like DUI - instant ban.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Mapmaker
>> Yet riding round London
>> it's common to see drivers of £50k+ cars yakking away on a handheld.

Utterly extraordinary

>> Texting and browsing are even more scary. If I were Minister for Transport I'd treat
>> that offence like DUI - instant ban.

I kind of agree with you. But...

I use Google maps on my iPhone as satnav/traffic info. Is that browsing?

I'm quite capable of sending lengthy texts or emails from the car.

Particularly when stationary at London traffic lights, but presumably also at 70mph on the motorway. Thanks to the iPhone dictate function. (There's often a fair amount of gobbledegook in them which I don't edit out. So I wouldn't send a message to anybody who counted. But the 'sent from my iPhone' disclaimer on the bottom is effectively an apology for rubbish, isn't it.)
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Alanovich
>> >> Yet riding round London
>> >> it's common to see drivers of £50k+ cars yakking away on a handheld.
>>
>> Utterly extraordinary

Nobody will know how busy and important I am if they can't see me holding the phone and screaming abuse at someone down it. It wouldn't satisfy my my ego sufficiently if, heaven forfend, someone thought I was singing along to a CD for instance. Can't have that. Perception and image are everything to me.

Yours,
a Range Rover Sport driver.

P.S. - I especially like doing it because it's illegal and getting away with it reinforces my sense of self-satisfaction and also lets the rest of you oiks know I don't give a flying one about it. I'm too special to be caught anyway, above the law, me, you see.
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 6 Mar 14 at 11:15
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Bromptonaut

>> I kind of agree with you. But...
>>
>> I use Google maps on my iPhone as satnav/traffic info. Is that browsing?

Provided it's mounted in a cradle then it's a satnav. If, like a woman I followed round Trafalgar Sq last summer, you've got the i-phone in your right hand while 'controlling' the car with your left then offence committed.

Saw a couple on the M1 yesterday clearly dividing attention between driving and a screen balanced on their lap - that's 12 months/10pts territory in my book.

>> I'm quite capable of sending lengthy texts or emails from the car.
>>
>> Particularly when stationary at London traffic lights, but presumably also at 70mph on the motorway.
>> Thanks to the iPhone dictate function.

So similar to a hands free phone?
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Mapmaker
>>So similar to a hands free phone?

Indeed; but you wanted a blanket ban on texting and browsing; I was merely pointing out that it might be very difficult/silly to enforce.

Though I think there's a lot to be said for banning the whole satnav creation, which arguably can be far more distracting and thus dangerous than a hand-held mobile.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Manatee

>> Though I think there's a lot to be said for banning the whole satnav creation,
>> which arguably can be far more distracting and thus dangerous than a hand-held mobile.

Having spent a good chunk of the 1980s driving around whilst reading street maps, I can't agree!

On second thoughts, it would probably cut traffic by about 50%.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - movilogo
>> Why it's illegal to use a hand-held phone but not a handsfree phone.

Because once the phone is in hands, drivers are more likely to use their hands for other things like texting, browsing someone's number, try to listen to voice mails etc.

I think if it is an automatic car, then holding phone in hand is less riskier compared to the situation in a manual car (no way I'm condoning using mobile while driving).

 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Tigger
A good write up of the course.

I think that all drivers should do top-up training every 2-3 years. I'm convinced that many of the tailgaters on the motorway aren't doing it out of malice, but simply because they've never been taught properly, or have fallen into bad habits.

I think its astonishing that one can pass a test at 17 and never have any top-up training at all for the rest of your life.
 Speed Awareness Course - thoughts. - Robin O'Reliant
>> A good write up of the course.
>>
>> I think that all drivers should do top-up training every 2-3 years. I'm convinced that
>> many of the tailgaters on the motorway aren't doing it out of malice, but simply
>> because they've never been taught properly, or have fallen into bad habits.
>>
>>
No, it's because they're aggressive people who would take the top up training then go back as they were.

"Top Up" training would have to be done by instructors from the training industry, and believe me having been an ADI myself if I had people for training who simply could not afford to be without their cars (Most people who already drive) I'd make your eyes and ears bleed with my prices.

For all it's faults, the system works very well with one of the lowest casualty rates in the world, tinker with it at your peril.
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