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Excellent article, Madf. Thanks for the link.
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You're right, madf, it is a facinating article.
I respect VW for its activities in its home city of Wolfsburg, and its business acumen, but in other ways I find this success story depressing. (unlike the recent stories of Ford, Jaguar or Hyundai, for example)
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They seem to suggest that an Audi is no more than a badge engineered Skoda. Surely not....
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Good reporting in that article from the start: "Every three months a team of top executives from Volkswagen Group boards a plane at headquarters in northern Germany and flies 1,000 miles southeast to a secret location near Barcelona to review the design of proposed new models under the shimmering Mediterranean light.
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I am not surprised that VW are world leaders.Good engineering investment in people and good products.
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Dutchie, I don't disagree with you that VAG produce good products, and when I was a nipper the perceived quality of VAG was that bit better than other mainstream manufacturers.
However, every reliability survey that I see, puts VW as roughly merely average these days. I hear anecdotal evidence which backs this up.
I draw a parallel with hotels. If you go to a genuine 4 star hotel you'll find the quality very good and your stay should be comfortable. You'd be miffed if you were paying FIVE star hotel prices, however.
And that's my main beef with VAG. With the very honourable exception of Skoda, I feel that they are overpriced compared to their competitors - but (maddeningly) getting away with it.
Of course you may feel otherwise. Judging by their success, most people do! :-)
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Reliability and quality are not the same thing.
A high quality wedding dress is not as reliable as a pair of Primark jeans.
For example, the Bugatti Veyron is very unreliable, it even needs new tyres every 2500 miles and new wheels at every third set, but is still very high quality.
Last edited by: sooty tailpipes on Fri 13 Jul 12 at 10:54
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>> Reliability and quality are not the same thing.
>> A high quality wedding dress is not as reliable as a pair of Primark jeans.
>> For example, the Bugatti Veyron is very unreliable, it even needs new tyres every 2500
>> miles and new wheels at every third set, but is still very high quality.
Because it needs new tyres every 2,500 miles, thats not unreliable, thats high maintenance.
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VAG build in design faults - eg wiring looms but as long as they last the warranty they don't care . and VAG don't do much "ex gratia " work compared to Toyota so the design faults can cost the third owner a lot..
See ignition coils, A8 gearboxes, A8 and A4/6 key sensor failings and 2.0TDI oil pumps..
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We are delighted with our VW Golf, and would recommend one to anyone. 10 years and 130,000 miles old, reliable as clockwork, and costs button to fuel and maintain.
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>> We are delighted with our VW Golf, and would recommend one to anyone. 10 years
>> and 130,000 miles old, reliable as clockwork, and costs button to fuel and maintain.
>>
You left out the most important bit, DP. :-)
What engine does it have? A petrol, the legendary 1.9 diesel or one of the more modern diesel engines where VAG are trying to get the hang of common rail engines that they fought against for so long?
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DP has a Golf 1.9PDI I think. He did also have a GTi 1.8T for a bit I think but that went when he got a company BMW. Don't think he got rid of the diesel one.
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Apparently 'quality' and 'specification' are different things too - or so I learned here in a verbal bout with NC a couple of years ago. VWs and the like are 'high specification' because they use expensive components and materials, whereas a 'high quality' car can be made of cornflakes if they're tidily glued together and you can make another one exactly like it.
People buy a VW because it's nicer to be in than a Kia or a Ford, not necessarily better made or more reliable. (Unless it's a Passat of course; people buy one of those when they've lost the will to live.)
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I've just bought, well with my employer's money to be fair, a Passat estate for one of our reps. He says he likes it. Well, he would wouldn't he? It's black and everything.
Actually, joking aside, it's very nice. DSG box etc.
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Yes it's the 1.9 PD TDi 130. I had a high mileage 1.8T for a while which was also reliable, but we didn't keep it that long as the company car came along.
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>> DSG box etc.
< Sucks air through teeth > you didn't want to do that gov..
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>> I've just bought, well with my employer's money to be fair, a Passat estate for
>> one of our reps. He says he likes it. Well, he would wouldn't he? It's
>> black and everything.
>>
>> Actually, joking aside, it's very nice. DSG box etc.
Oh dear, the one with the electric handbrake?
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>>Oh dear, the one with the electric handbrake?
Yeah well, I'll not be driving it will I?
:-)
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>> Yeah well, I'll not be driving it will I?
As long as he's happy.
:)
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>> Apparently 'quality' and 'specification' are different things too - or so I learned here in
>> a verbal bout with NC a couple of years ago. VWs and the like are
>> 'high specification' because they use expensive components
You'd think so WDB but Valeo aircon compressors? Pretty much guaranteed to fail (just outside warranty) sending metal shards through the rest of the system.
And VAG may be at the cutting edge of technology but it's a shame they can't stop rain getting through door seals among other things. They don't learn from previous mistakes. Why? Arrogance?
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DSGs are OK as long as they get their scheduled oil changes. The VW tech who looks after our Golf reckons he services a few with over 150k which have never given a moment's trouble. They die quickly if neglected though.
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They die quickly if neglected though.
1.There are makers who make cars which die even when serviced correctly.
2.And makers who make cars which die if neglected.
3.And those who make cars which still live even when horribly neglected.
1. Think Renault.
2. Think VW
3. Think Japanese/Korean.
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VW announced today in Germany that the DSG is no longer available.
But things look very dour for Opel/Vauxhall GM are considering pulling the plug having had 3 new Chefs in 12 months and things go from bad to worse.
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>> VW announced today in Germany that the DSG is no longer available.
It's no longer available for the Golf Mk6 as they're ramping up production for the Golf Mk7.
In terms of reliability, VW seem to be a lot better than in years gone by, at least according to the Reliability and Breakdown Reports from the ADAC and TÜV organizations. The Golf Mk5 and Mk 6 are right up there with Toyota. Some of the older models though, especially the Touran, seem to leave a lot to be desired.
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Ah yes, the Chinese built DSG problem. Forgot about that. Looks like VW had some "teething troubles" ramping up the DSG factory in Tianjin, and it cost some very senior people their jobs.
Following in the footsteps of Audi who also had problems around 10 years ago when localizing manufacturing in China.
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And the Malaysian DSG problem, and the American DSG problem, and the numerous UK web sites set up by groups of disgruntled DSG owners in the UK. Guess we could call that the UK DSG problem?
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>> VW announced today in Germany that the DSG is no longer available.
>> But things look very dour for Opel/Vauxhall GM are considering pulling the plug having had
>> 3 new Chefs in 12 months and things go from bad to worse.
>>
I remember when GM proudly announced Opel had become market leader in Germany, displaced VAG.. About 30 years ago.
Since then, VAG have produced the Golf, the Polo and world leading diesel engines.
And GM have produced? An Isuzu diesel engine for 20 odd years, the Cavalier (good) and the Vectra (dull) and a reliaibility record which is appalling.
GM are the classic case of a company which have lost their way. See also Sony, Nokia and Blackberry. And Peugeot..
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>> . . . VAG have produced the Golf, the Polo and world leading diesel engines.
>>
Golf and Polo are very good cars, and amongst the very best in class year after year, I'll agree.
But "world leading diesel engines"? ....nah.
A long way behind BMW, then Mercedes, and even the French.
Now their TSI petrol engines are tasty, I'll grant you. The powerful 1.4 is a marvel.
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Volkswagen - VAG - World leader - WillDeBeest
