Hello all,
Mrs B's 500 1.2 Pop has gone back to the supplying dealer for minor bodywork rectification that was supposed to be done before we collected it. We have been given a 0.9 Twin Air as a courtesy car and I have to say that I wish we'd bought one of these little crackers instead!
Ok, the engine note sounds rather odd - as though the exhaust manifold is blowing - but it don't half shift! I was completely taken aback by how much oooomph there is the little thing. It is *way* faster off the mark than the 1.2.
Having said that, we are extremely pleased with our car, although the Stop/Start is taking a bit of getting used to. Unfortunately though my Megane is in the garage being put back on the road so I won't be driving the 500 much after the weekend.
Cheers.
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>> It is *way* faster off the mark than the 1.2.
FWIW 11.0s v 12.9s 0-62mph according to HJ's (=Fiat?) figures.
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This is very probably the car that will replace our mk4 Golf TDI when we've saved a few pennies. One of the few cars that both SWMBO and I would love to own.
A Euro IV diesel is out of the question, given the usage pattern, and I just don't like modern four cylinder NA petrol engines. This thing however sounds brilliant. Literally. :-)
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Well, like I said we're extremely pleased with our 1.2 Pop. It doesn't feel any smaller than the Grande Punto it replaced and feels very at home on the motorway.
I've always preferred larger cars so for me to like it, it must be good!
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The FIRE in your 1.2 is probably a better long term prospect as its proven technology although dated. It will be a lot cheaper to fix if things do go wrong.
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R&S, the voice of happiness!
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>> A Euro IV diesel is out of the question, given the usage pattern, and I
>> just don't like modern four cylinder NA petrol engines. This thing however sounds brilliant. Literally.
>> :-)
>>
They're Euro V now, added stop/start helps get you really scratching your head when things go wrong. I'm not generally a fan of four cylinders but my GSX-R 750 has converted me to four cylinder NA petrol. 150PS + 190kgs = :-)
Last edited by: gmac on Thu 5 Jul 12 at 15:02
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>> They're Euro V now, added stop/start helps get you really scratching your head when things
>> go wrong. I'm not generally a fan of four cylinders but my GSX-R 750 has
>> converted me to four cylinder NA petrol. 150PS + 190kgs = :-)
Forgot to say, bike engines are excluded from my previous statement :-)
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>> >> It is *way* faster off the mark than the 1.2.
Yes it is, and it drinks fuel like you wouldn't believe if you drive it like that. Doesn't even come close to its promised MPG.
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>> >> >> It is *way* faster off the mark than the 1.2.
>>
>> Yes it is, and it drinks fuel like you wouldn't believe if you drive it
>> like that. Doesn't even come close to its promised MPG.
>>
Quite a few stories of people being very unhappy with the twin air engine fuel consumption
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>> Quite a few stories of people being very unhappy with the twin air engine fuel
>> consumption
I checked the average fuel consumption on the trip computermebob and it was 39mpg. We're getting 50 from ours so I'm not surprised people are unhappy! Mind you, I suppose a courtesy car will never return a great mpg figure.
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The official combined figure of twin air small Fiats is around 70mpg, which takes some believing.
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And perhaps more annoyingly (for owners) is that the urban figure, which people tend to take as more representative of 'real life' driving, is about 60mpg (cf. Badwolf's 39mpg above).
EDIT: 'about 60mpg' = 58 for manual, 61 for 'dualogic'
Last edited by: Focus on Thu 5 Jul 12 at 19:00
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The time is long overdue for the current economy/emissions ratings to be overhauled.
I know they have something in the pipeline, but will it be enough?
My 1.7 ton Mondeo Estate with a punchy 2.0 diesel and an old tech torque converter auto box manages 39mpg quite easily.
Perhaps not as much fun as a 500 Twin Air, but a lot more useful to me! And yet my "official" emissions are 189 g/km...
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>> The official combined figure of twin air small Fiats is around 70mpg, which takes some
>> believing.
You might get that, but you'd have to drive carefully i.e. 60mph on the motorway, minimal braking, looking ahead, turn off at traffic lights etc. I get more than 60mpg from a VW Up, sometimes 65mpg. The official combined consumption is 63mpg, but were I to do 70mph on motorways, it'd be just under 60mpg. It seems most people tend to brake a lot, and accelerate rapidly, and that kills mpg. You have to be boring or laid back depending on your point of view. I think journalists tend to be 'enthusiastic drivers'. I do admit that I find it odd how some people get very poor mpg, what are they doing, drinking the fuel themselves?
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>> what are they doing, drinking the fuel themselves?
Sitting still with the engine running, probably, to keep the aircon/heater going while they wait for the Mrs to come out of a shop/ kids to come out of school etc. Idling for any length of time has a dramatic effect on calculated mpg - I'd rather switch off the moment I stop anywhere, and drive how I want the resr of the time rather than try to eke out every last drop. I'm a naturally boring /laid back driver anyway.
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> what are they doing, drinking the fuel themselves?
It's amazing how people tailgate in town, accelerate up to lights and then brake for the traffic tail, and accelerate very gently for miles.
Minimal acceleration and maximum coasting on a almost closed throttle with no braking gives best results.
Try driving a Prius and then change your driving style to match. I did and overall mpg improved from 57 to 62 on Yaris d4d.
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>> Minimal acceleration
As in accelerate (briskly) for as little time as practical/possible presumably, rather than accelerate slowly (for a long time)?
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>> Minimal acceleration and maximum coasting on a almost closed throttle with no braking gives best
>> results.
But sometimes you need to give a diesel a good clear out to keep it healthy.
Modern diesels encourage people to accelerate rapidly due to the nature of a turbo diesel. I try to drive smoothly but maintain rapid progress by keeping up momentum through roundabouts ( when there is nothing approaching of course). I'll cut across lanes to reduce pressure on tyres and keep speed up. This gives good economy as well.
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Impeccable logic on this thread but.......
If I drive my Octavia vRS like a (I was going to say like a vicar but ours drives a Discovery and gets a move on).... gently, anyway, I can get a sporting 40 mpg out of it. But if I were happy to drive like that, I wouldn't have had a vRS in the first place.
You can drive for economy or have fun, but generally not both: a turbodiesel might seem like the best of both worlds, but only if you drive more than 15,000 miles a year. And even then you have to drive it gently to get really good mpg.
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...but only if you drive more than 15,000 miles a year.
Often stated here but I don't follow the logic. A diesel costs more to buy but less per mile to run, do you need to run it for enough miles to recoup the extra purchase cost. It doesn't matter how fast you cover those miles, so long as you do it before you buy another car. I suspect the 15,000 idea comes from dividing the typical 50,000 mile break-even point by the typical three-year duration of a finance contract. Anyone else should do their own sums.
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Do diesels really cost less to run these days though. The MPG of petrol engines is improving all the time whereas diesel engines seem to be getting thirstier, presumably due to all the kit they need to carry to meet the Euro v emmision requirements, and diesel is more expensive tha unleaded. Some diesel cars also need servicing more frequently than the petrol models.
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One would have to check of course but I'm pretty sure I would love the Twin Air and don't doubt that I would get 50mpg out of it round here. There's nothing to be gained by hooning all the time because of all the waddling mimsers. It'll be a light foot a lot of the time, willynilly.
Two things though: it's an expensive little beast to buy, and it's too recent for its real-life longevity to have been established yet. How does it wear, one wonders?
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Some diesel cars also need servicing more frequently than the petrol models.
I can't contradict you authoritatively, Skip, but I've not come across this while I've been buying and driving diesels - ie the last ten years. Do you have an example?
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>> Some diesel cars also need servicing more frequently than the petrol models.
>>
>> I can't contradict you authoritatively, Skip, but I've not come across this while I've been
>> buying and driving diesels - ie the last ten years. Do you have an example?
>>
I know that it used the be the case in the past, but I think in the last 10 years diesels are usually around the same / or even higher intervals.
MrsB's sharan was on VW's long life servicing and was calling for attention at around 18K - thats got the old PD unit in it. Its back on time/distance now as our mileage dropped so an annual service made more sense
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Modern diesel engines don't like short runs, so for a lot of people a petrol engine is far better, and often far less to go wrong although modern engines such as the Twin Air are quite complicated.
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Obviously, Rats - I don't think there's ever been an internal combustion engine that did like short runs, but until quite recently the bodywork tended to disintegrate before the engine and exhaust fell apart. But that's not enough to prove that you need to drive 15,000 miles a year to make diesel a viable choice.
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>> I don't think there's ever been an internal combustion engine that did like short runs,
Very true, but I do believe modern engine management minimises cylinder bore washing with rich cold-start mixtures, and they probably warm up more quickly too.
In the carburettor/contact breaker days most cars were knackered before their time from running in permanently lousy tune. I never once acquired a second-hand car that didn't need retuning from the ground up. Owners, and most garages, would just twiddle the screws at random until the thing would start and idle. Proper running at all speeds didn't come into it for most people.
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I rather envy my closest friend. He has cars, he drives them and he can afford them. He has had petrols, diesels, fwds, rwds, 4wds autos and manuals but freely admits and is strangely proud of the fact that he has not the faintest clue how or why they work. He knows to take them to a garage at the suggested service intervals but what happens to them while they are there is a complete and utter mystery to him and of not the slightest interest to him.
He buys his cars on the basis of whether he likes the look of them, if he can fit his family or his gigging drum kit in them, how good the radio is and whether they are easily within his budget at the time of purchase. He keeps them until the maintenance costs are more than he thinks is reasonable and trades them in against a new one chosen with similar levels of boredom.
He has had some great cars and some not so good but at all times remained blissfully unaware of those facts in any event.
Probably the best way.
Drives like a twonk mind.
:-)
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>> I rather envy my closest friend.
>>
I envy him a bit as well. He's basically contented with his wheels.
One big reason is that he is secure enough in himself to buy what HE wants, not what some motoring magazine / friend / pundit / forum is telling him that he should buy.
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>> >> I rather envy my closest friend.
>> >>
>> I envy him a bit as well. He's basically contented with his wheels.
>>
>> One big reason is that he is secure enough in himself to buy what HE
>> wants, not what some motoring magazine / friend / pundit / forum is telling him
>> that he should buy.
Or more likely he buys what he needs based on what he can afford, it doesn't sound like he is worried or driven about the "want"
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>> Some diesel cars also need servicing more frequently than the petrol models.
>>
>> I can't contradict you authoritatively, Skip, but I've not come across this while I've been
>> buying and driving diesels - ie the last ten years. Do you have an example?
>>
According to the computer, my 320d is going to need its first service somewhere between 19,000 and 20,000 miles (it fluctuates slightly).
Mind you, if it can manage two clean months without a trip to the dealership to fix something, I will be a happy bunny. Nothing to do with being a diesel. Everything to do with it under-developed and suffering from poor component quality.
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or a highly stressed engine hence needing servicing more often
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>> Everything to do with it under-developed and suffering from poor component quality.
It's a shame that BMW has succumbed to this. OK, they never had Japanese levels of reliability but they were usually pretty reliable. Too many electronics now perhaps.
I don't need half the carp that cars are festooned with nowadays.
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>> >> Everything to do with it under-developed and suffering from poor component quality.
>> It's a shame that BMW has succumbed to this. OK, they never had Japanese levels
>> of reliability but they were usually pretty reliable. Too many electronics now perhaps.
>> I don't need half the carp that cars are festooned with nowadays.
>>
Its not just BMW.
I'd love to tell you about a 'product enhancement' on another manufacturers vehicles, but its not allowed to go public.....
.... some may wonder why the next service takes longer than usual though.
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Ooooo-Kaaaay !!!!!???
Let me guess, like a little illuminating sign just above the front number plate with reversed out lettering so you can send little messages to the vehicle in front along the lines of...
"Just MOVE OVER will you pleb features!"
...and one above the rear number plate reading...
"feel lucky punk?"
:-))
( I really don't mean this you know, honestly... )
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don't you think you have enough fairy lights on your "large german estate car"?
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Dunno, never stand outside it when they're on. They're for the "others"...
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>> Ooooo-Kaaaay !!!!!???
>>
>> Let me guess, like a little illuminating sign just above the front number plate with
>> reversed out lettering so you can send little messages to the vehicle in front along
>> the lines of...
>>
ummmm no Humph...
Lets just say, its a re-modification of a modification.....
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Fuel system......
Last edited by: mikeyb on Sun 8 Jul 12 at 18:19
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...No comment...
No need for all this secret squirrel claptrap, it's only a poxy car.
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>> Swirl flaps. ?
>>
They were (are) a BMW problem, and ST is a Mercedes guy IIRC.
I'm guessing that there are still problems with the fuel injectors. They have been notorious for their "teething" problems.
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Language like that would get you frogmarched off another site we know. Luckily we're more enlightened here.
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"Language like that would get you frogmarched off another site we know. Luckily we're more enlightened here."
Not the site I moderate - this thread is good-natured debate. Or maybe a mod has deleted something nasty that you saw and I didn't.
Anyway we must all be nice to WdB - he has been lent an A160 and is suffering from it.
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Only teasing, Avant; must be the Viz reader in me. Still, I appreciate the sympathy. You needn't worry any more, though: the LEC is back on the drive with its parking sensors fixed and its bi-xenons reset for the UK.
I did think of you and your B while I was driving the A. I'd never driven a small Mercedes before - then I'd never driven a big one till we went shopping for an E - and it didn't occur to me that there'd be such a huge difference in competence; a Golf isn't qualitatively different from a Passat, whereas an A and an E might have been made on different planets.
Anyway, back to Fiats.
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>> ...No comment...
>>
>> No need for all this secret squirrel claptrap, it's only a poxy car.
>>
Iffy... as a man of the press, you must have heard that saying before.... ;-)
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FIAT 500 - 0.9 Twin Air - what a little corker! - Focusless
