In what genuinely seems to be a 'moment of madness' a 67yo driving instructor with an unblemished record enters a public toilet and engages in a consensual sexual act with another male. He's subsequently reported, convicted under the Sexual Offences Act and fined £200 plus victim surcharge and costs.
Does the panel think he deserves to be 'struck off' as a Driving Instructor?
I know the outcome, which was publicly available, and I'll post the result later.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 27 Jun 12 at 19:50
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He almost certainly was. The DSA are very nervous of people with convictions of a sexual nature.
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You don't suddenly have an act of madness and decide you want to be a: gay and b: emulate george michael and start cottaging. There will be history and intent lurking around somewhere.
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>> You don't suddenly have an act of madness and decide you want to be a:
>> gay and b: emulate george michael and start cottaging. There will be history and intent
>> lurking around somewhere.
The conviction was accepted as a 'one off' (fnaaar, fanaar). I guess if one was utterly repulsed by homosexuality it wouldn't have happened but orientation is not a digital question is it.
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Is it a 'one off' inasmuch as he was caught? Or a 'one off' inasmuch as he gets to 67 and suddenly decides that his entire life has been a lie, and he'd like to engage in an act with another consenting chap?
Let's throw this one open - if he'd been nicked for kerb-crawling, or caught in a compromising position in a parked car with a consenting female adult, would they have been as fair?
BUT the big question - was the consenting adult (M or F) in any way connected with (a) the licensing authotities; or (b) a learner driver?
Last edited by: Ian (Cape Town) on Wed 27 Jun 12 at 21:23
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>> The conviction was accepted as a 'one off' (fnaaar, fanaar). I guess if one was
>> utterly repulsed by homosexuality it wouldn't have happened but orientation is not a digital question
>> is it.
No its not, which is why I suggested there has to be history of some kind. Its not a problem being gay, but bonking another bloke in the bog suggests a worrying lack of morals and control.
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"Does the panel think he deserves to be 'struck off' as a Driving Instructor?"
B******d if I know.
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Oh I say, I thought you would have had a firm point of view.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 27 Jun 12 at 21:14
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I thought it was legal now? Or is this a news clip from 1952?
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Obviously driving instruction has become a cottage industry?
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Parallel porking still in the test these days?
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"Do not pull out until it is safe to do so"
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There's no reason to ban a driving instructor just because he is homosexual. But cottaging even when the act is between consenting adults is not 'private', which is why it's an offence.
Some people might think such a conviction would indicate 'risk taking' behaviour. That wouldn't seem good with a driving instructor.
I haven't a clue what the law would think though really.
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I have no problem with people being 'gay ' Licking the stamp on the other side is not of great concern in this turbulent world.
The downside of this ' cottaging ' business is that almost all of the public toilets in our city have been closed down due to this activity.
We have, for as long as I've been out and about in the city, had a ' gay ' area where ' the business ' can be carried out without inconvenience to others. ( A very pleasant area it is, too .)
I can tell you the best way of cottaging if anyone's interested.........I thought not !
Ted
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>
>> B******d if I know.
>>
Priceless!
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I must have led a sheltered life, what with dogging, and now cottaging which I've never heard of, but I can work that out by reading the posts and the George Michael connection.
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I was involved with some cases - seems to be huge turn on to certain types of man, even the stench of the toilet is part of the "buzz" this type of behaviour repulses gay men in general. The stereotype of those caught is being in a straight relationship.
Don't see why they should ban the guy though - really. Is he a risk to anyone else in the absence of the whiff of "eau de toilette" ?
Last edited by: R.P. on Wed 27 Jun 12 at 22:38
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>> >> The stereotype of those caught is being
>> in a straight relationship.
Indeed. There was a bloke in my childhood home town who, though never caught, was widely known to be into this sort of encounter. Stereotypical middle class job, wife who with hindsight was a doppelganger for Mary Archer, two kids and a nice house on a posh estate.
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When I was a driving instructor I once pulled up outside the public toilets outside Seven Kings station in Redbridge during a lesson because I was busting for a P. I walked in to find one middle aged male on his knees "playing the pink oboe" in front of another guy of about the same age. They hadn't even had the sense or the decency to lock themselves in a cubicle. All it meant for me was a hurried dash to Tescos down the road to borrow their loo, but how would anyone feel if their six or seven year old son had walked in on it? I have no qualms about homosexuals, your sexuality is your own business, but blatantly committing any sort of sex act in the type of public place where it is perfectly reasonable to have someone appear is a definate no-no and those who do it can't complain about the consequences if caught.
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Sex of whatever version is essentially a private pastime - men do it in toilets in public are not indulging in a private passion - it's a perversion. My (professional) experiences put me off using public toilets - I only use them in an emergency...
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talking of tesco, doesnt the 'recipeint' stand in a shopping bag during the lewd act ,so when the old bill look under the gap in the door they only see one pair of shoes?
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>> talking of tesco, doesnt the 'recipeint' stand in a shopping bag during the lewd act
>> ,so when the old bill look under the gap in the door they only see
>> one pair of shoes?
>>
You tell us.
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Good lord! so much detail!
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That's what I was referring to when I offered any help to would be cottagers, Twinkle.
Never Tesco, though....Fortnums for the quality cottager !
Ted
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>> Never Tesco, though....Fortnums for the quality cottager !
Nah, M & S would do, or for the slightly more peverse cottager, S & M.
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When young I used to wonder why people so often seemed to throw crusts of bread, sometimes whole slices, into urinals. It seemed a stupid place to chuck it.
Later I learned that people eat it, having put it there first for the purpose. These are indeed perversions, people stuck in the earliest infantile stages of what later becomes genital sexuality in most people. Something of a tragedy for them even if they don't see it like that.
Of course the very term 'perversion' is frowned on by modern inclusiveness freaks. But not by proper psychoanalysts, who are disinterested and know what they are talking about.
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>> and now cottaging which I've
>> never heard of
Most upsetting for Fulham fans, as their team has been known as the Cottagers for many years.
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>>Most upsetting for Fulham fans, as their team has been known as the Cottagers for many years<<
Its quite amazing (to me) how homosexuals have hijacked quite innocent words like gay and Cottage to have a totally different meaning to what they were originally intended for.
My address includes the word Cottage, I don't think I'll ever look at it in the same way again.
Decidedly disgusted of Cornwall.
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"My address includes the word Cottage,"
Gay Dog Cottage?
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It has a ring about it.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 28 Jun 12 at 15:06
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>>Gay Dog Cottage?<<
That's it, I've had all I can stands and I can't stands no more, I have just gorn out and painted over the Cottage bit on my slate house sign.
In Pink!
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>> Does the panel think he deserves to be 'struck off' as a Driving Instructor?
>>
Most certainly not.
The DSA have no right to sit in moral judgment on anyone. I have a lot of contact with them in the course of my work and they are aware of so many spurious practices going on, but choose to do nothing about it.
Good luck to the man who has got to 67 yrs old and finally felt that life was too short to suppress his natural tendencies, it wasn't easy 50 years ago to announce that you were gay.
OK, he could have chosen a better place but it would have been acceptable if it was an heterosexual couple in the same circumstances.
....can none of you remember the thrill of getting caught?
Pat
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>> >> Does the panel think he deserves to be 'struck off' as a Driving Instructor?
>> >>
>>
>> Most certainly not.
Most certainly Yes. Would I like my 17 year old daughter in close proximity in a car , on a deserted road, on her own, with a sex offender? Most certainly not and I guess 99/% of people on here wouldn't either.
>>
>> ....can none of you remember the thrill of getting caught?
Have you any idea at all what being put on the sex offenders register means to your future?
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I really don't think your 17 year old daughter would be at risk in this scenario Z:)
>>Have you any idea at all what being put on the sex offenders register means to your future? <<
Lighten up Z and remember your mispent youth, surely it wasn't that boring!
Pat
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nope certainly wasn't, but then this has turned into a buttoned up, surveillance camered, DNA and fingerprint recording, what about my human rights to be a prig enshrined in law, society.
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For the record the Magistrates didn't put him on the sex offenders register. Since the act was between consenting adults I'd rather hope an option intended to deal with violent, abusive or coercive acts was not available.
I'll post a link to the report when I'm back home tonight.
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>>what about my human rights to be a prig enshrined in law, society.
<<
Would you have been a prig if this had been two women.....and you were allowed to watch?
Pat
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come on now, in real life (not the world of mens porn) lesbians are ugly fat tarts who can't get fellas because of their body hair.
So no, I would have politely decline a front row seat thank you.
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>> >> > Would I like my 17 year old daughter in close proximity in
>> a car , on a deserted road, on her own, with a sex offender? Most
>> certainly not and I guess 99/% of people on here wouldn't either.
>>
She would be much more at risk from a normal straight bloke with a boring family life who wasn't a sex offender. I'd be reassured to know that my daughter's driving instructor was a homosexual with a preference for public loos. Much safer than the usual hand on knee variety.
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what about your 17 year old son? (yes I know most, like mine would stick the blokes head through the windscreen if anything happened, but some are vulnerable)
No, to be serious, surely the test to apply about the DSA's right or wrong standards is, did he do something that might have got him sacked if he worked for a private employer.
if the answer is yes, then removing his license is appropriate. If not then its not.
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I've covered the cases of a couple of dirty driving instructors.
One made himself busy at the rear of his drop dead gorgeous pupil as he was showing her the location of the car's dipstick.
Part of her evidence was: "I can't help looking the way I do," almost as if she wished she wasn't so good looking.
The other instructor got his kicks on the sofa after inviting his young female pupil into his house to go through the theory part of the test.
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He was showing her the location of the car's dipstick.>:) That's one way to learn how to drive.
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...He was showing her the location of the car's dipstick.>:) That's one way to learn how to drive...
Happily for him, but unhappily for her, the test now includes a limited mechanical section.
So he was able to claim he was only doing his job and it was all a misunderstanding.
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At Tech School we had a teacher who had a habit to massage your shoulder whilst talking.
I moved my elbow to his facial region.He didn't bother me again.>;)
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>> No, to be serious, surely the test to apply about the DSA's right or wrong
>> standards is, did he do something that might have got him sacked if he worked
>> for a private employer.
>>
>> if the answer is yes, then removing his license is appropriate. If not then its
>> not.
Assuming he was working as an employee then the company could discipline him in any event. He'd then have recourse, at least on dismissal, to an Employment Tribunal. He can also continue as Joe Bloggs SoM.
What is in play here is his professional registration. If DSA 'strike him off' then there's a right of appeal to the First-tier Tribunal.
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I'm not sure such an offense would lead to automatic suspension from the GMC although anything more than an SP30 conviction will usually be referred on to them.
Sexual advances of an unsolicited nature, or towards people under your care are a far more worrying event than some repressed old queen getting his bobby polished in a public bog.
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...Sexual advances of an unsolicited nature, or towards people under your care...
I've done a few dirty doc cases.
A common feature is how compliant the victim is in a consultation.
Example: Woman goes in complaining of headaches, doc says: 'Slip your top off pet and lie on the couch,' almost unbelievably she does as she's told.
One GP seemed to need to do an internal examination before he could diagnose anything.
He filmed himself using a camera hidden in a box of tissues.
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>> What is in play here is his professional registration. If DSA 'strike him off' then
>> there's a right of appeal to the First-tier Tribunal.
Which is exactly what I was talking about. DO something bad, loose your job - do something bad loose your registration.
There is no difference.
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Case report here:
www.transporttribunal.gov.uk/Aspx/view.aspx?id=1265 (links to Word Doc)
Zero, I'd argue there's a significant difference between dismissal and striking off. The first will make getting another job difficult but, particularly in a profession with large numbers of self employed not impossible. The other is removal of livelihood.
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'Cottaging' now an unacceptable term in our politically correct, all inclusive society. Such toilets are 'public sex environments'. I kid you not.
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>> 'Cottaging' now an unacceptable term in our politically correct, all inclusive society. Such toilets are
>> 'public sex environments'. I kid you not.
>>
...and the reason why you dare not take your kids or granny to some public places, because people are up to all sorts, because they feel empowered to do so by the emasculation of every one else, too afraid to pipe up in case they are made to feel 'ist'.
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>> 'pipe up'? go on.....
>>
Do you know. I have a history of doing that. I've even done it in court. I get away with it...because...it's entirely innocent, although in retrospect, when I think on it, it's because I have an inappropriate humour and the sordid side of things obviously comes to the fore.
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>> 'Cottaging' now an unacceptable term in our politically correct, all inclusive society. Such toilets are
>> 'public sex environments'. I kid you not.
There's absolutely nothing to stop us using the term in this virtual pub.
OTOH, in a professional sense it might be seen by its participants as a pejorative or even judgemental term for a pretty narrow bit of a much wider issue with 'public sex environments'.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 28 Jun 12 at 20:57
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>> In what genuinely seems to be a 'moment of madness' a 67yo driving instructor with
>> an unblemished record enters a public toilet and engages in a consensual sexual act with
>> another male.
>>
He had probably just read his latest pension statement and thought damn it I'll become an MP. He was practicing for his entrance exam.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 11 Jul 12 at 01:18
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The City Police plain clothes dept, not CID, used to mostly hang around the gent's cludgies in the city. I remember me mate capturing a very respectable, elder gentleman who was ' spanking the badger ' for the benefit of anyone who cared to watch.
Hauled before the justices, he claimed he had problems micturating and the recalcitrant urine had to be teased out manually......rather like milking a cow, I suppose. In the absence of a note from his GP, he was fined the usual ten bob and let go.
Ted
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I recall one who got his kicks by standing in his porch and playing with himself as the paper girl delivered his evening paper.
To save the child giving evidence, the cops used a slightly-built WPC as a ringer and caught him in the act.
In court we were told he was a sad, lonely individual who had no friends.
Hardly surprising given the way he greeted callers.
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>> In court we were told he was a sad, lonely individual who had no friends.
Sign him up! :)
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>>To save the child giving evidence, the cops used a slightly-built WPC as a ringer and caught him in the act<<
They do that across the pond on Cops (CBS Reality on Freesat) theyll set up a Peado using a girlish Cop who has been in contact with the perp via email, keep watch on the rendezvous with high-powered binocs, and then ... gotcha!
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>> the cops used a slightly-built WPC as a ringer and caught him in the act.
Beulah Balbricker from Porky's would have been funnier.
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Another Diverse Society Thing. - Robin O'Reliant
