Full list is here.
www.whatcar.com/car-news/jd-power-survey-2012/the-results/263078
I wonder how nearly identical cars are ranked wide apart. e.g. Kia Cee'd vs Hyundai i30 (32nd vs 68th).
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Movi, you're making the old mistake of expecting this data to mean something.
}:---)
There's not much I can see on the survey methodology, but 18,000 responses spread over 118 models means that some of the samples will be very small, so subject to enormous chance variation. Add to that that the respondents selected themselves and you have to treat this very carefully* - there's very little science here.
* Except for Vectras, of course. They're truly dreadful.
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>> subject to enormous chance variation
But look, the scores go down to fractions of a % - it must be accurate :)
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The JD Power survey is by and for the people mentioned in yesterday's report by European Centre for the Development of Vocational Training:
"Too many people in the UK are leaving school “functionally illiterate and innumerate, with no qualifications” "
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>> The JD Power survey is by and for the people mentioned in yesterday's report by
>> European Centre for the Development of Vocational Training:
>> "Too many people in the UK are leaving school “functionally illiterate and innumerate, with no
>> qualifications” "
>>
>>
>>
Like MPs then .. (who cannot do sums when filling in Expense Claims)
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It's the dealer service ratings that never make any sense to me:
Ford dealers scored 2, 3 and 4 star ratings in this survey, dependent on model. There are also various other models based on same platforms/mechanicals with wildly differing reliability scores and inconsistent complaints.
No meaningful conclusions can be gained from this survey.
Last edited by: DP on Thu 31 May 12 at 11:15
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>> * Except for Vectras, of course. They're truly dreadful.
Slap
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The survey is clearly a load of cack.
Prius drivers loved the dynamic handling
I rest my case.
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>> The survey is clearly a load of cack.
>>
>> Prius drivers loved the dynamic handling
>>
>> I rest my case.
>>
Have you driven a Prius ?
I'm quite happy with my 2010 Gen 3 T-Spirit handling.............. below 30 mph ;0)
Seriously though, the Gen 3 Prius T-Spirit with the 17" wheels and quicker ratio steering is better than the Mk4 Mondeo barge I had before it. It's light years ahead of the previous generation Prius which had horrendous understeer.
Last edited by: Kithmo on Thu 31 May 12 at 16:44
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>> Have you driven a Prius ?
>> Seriously though, the Gen 3 Prius T-Spirit with the 17" wheels and quicker ratio steering
>> is better than the Mk4 Mondeo barge I had before it. It's light years ahead
>> of the previous generation Prius which had horrendous understeer.
>>
The Lexus 200 was brilliant on the backroads. Shame it had to be spanked to get anywhere close to a decent speed. Why have a 'sport' mode on a hybrid anyways - seems to defeat the object, IMHO. There's plenty of poke there in normal drive for overtaking etc.
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>> It's light years ahead of the previous generation Prius which had horrendous understeer.
Hmm, you've never experienced "horrendous understeer". I have a fleet "old shape" Prius and, while it certainly does suffer from a fair amount of understeer when pressed through a corner, it's hardly horrendous.
Try an Austin 1800 for a practical demonstration of what real understeer feels like.
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>> Try an Austin 1800 for a practical demonstration of what real understeer feels like.
Nah, you want a mk3 Cavalier SRi, in the wet. It has virtually no steering at all above brisk cycling pace, never mind understeer.
So bad, it's borderline dangerous.
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>> Nah, you want a mk3 Cavalier SRi, in the wet. It has virtually no steering at all above brisk cycling pace, never mind understeer.
Depends on the tyres that were fitted. Both my Mk3's (GLS and Diplomat spec) were fine.
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Slap
Ah, that's better. It can take a long time but a stone dropped down a well will eventually reach the Vauxhall owner living at the bottom.
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What's wrong with a Vauxhall? I drive a Ford Focus below the bottom.>;)
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>> What's wrong with a Vauxhall? I drive a Ford Focus below the bottom.>;)
Where else can it be other than beneath your bottom? Or am I missing something?
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I agree with the sceptical comments here. Jeremy Clarkson (a motoring journalist) once said these surveys are meaningless because they are based on customer expectations. I think there is a lot of truth in that statement. A Merc driver expects high standards. A cheap city car driver is pleased if it starts, and takes them from A to B. Also different cars tend to be bought by different types of people.
And anyway, when you add up the scores, there is not a lot of variation between many cars, especially the top one in a class, and the ones below. It is also odd that they score vehicle appeal, inside and outside. Can't people decide if they like it before they buy it?
That said, I think you can gain some insight e.g. reliability.
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"....based on customer expectations. I think there is a lot of truth in that statement. A Merc driver expects high standards. A cheap city car driver is pleased if it starts, and takes them from A to B."
I wonder if that's why Skodas consistently do better in these surveys than mechanically identical Audis. Helpful dealers (more of Skoda's are family-owned than Audi's) also improve the general perception of the cars themselves.
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There is a bit of self justification psychology going on I'm sure. There are certain cars one finds oneself forever "excusing" when asked and then immediately regretting it. While I tried very hard not to, I sometimes found myself extolling the virtues of my Mondeos rather more than was strictly necessary in certain company. When a friend rolls up in his latest flashmobile it's almost impossible not to, despite knowing that whatever you say it will not convince him, or indeed yourself quite fully and that withholding comment altogether, other than to praise his choice, would actually be the better option.
I imagine it's the same with Skodas, Dai-ho-harry-hatso-kia-sukis and the like. No matter how good a thing they genuinely or indeed otherwise are, I could imagine feeling innately compelled to repeatedly explain that to anyone kind enough to listen and pretend at least some interest.
Unless of course one has bought an Espace. In which case, in due course, one begs only for sympathy and suitable calming medication.
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>> Unless of course one has bought an Espace. In which case, in due course, one
>> begs only for sympathy and suitable calming medication.
>>
Medication only works where there is a cure. ANYONE who buys an Espace is an incurable optimist:-)
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The results don't differentiate beween the variants in a model range. I love my 2003 Ford Focus 2 litre petrol Ghia, but I wouldn't have touched the bottom of the range 1.4 litre CL with a barge pole.
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>> The results don't differentiate beween the variants in a model range. I love my 2003
>> Ford Focus 2 litre petrol Ghia, but I wouldn't have touched the bottom of the
>> range 1.4 litre CL with a barge pole.
Excellent point. And if a lot of respondents bought the dog of the range, you get a poor result.
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"I imagine it's the same with Skodas..... No matter how good a thing they genuinely or indeed otherwise are, I could imagine feeling innately compelled to repeatedly explain that to anyone kind enough to listen and pretend at least some interest."
I suppose that's right, Humph. I don't feel in any way defensive about driving a Skoda, but to anyone interested I do tend to explain that the Scottish half of me can't justify spending another £7,000 on a mechanically identical Audi with only slightly better build quality and less space (Octavia vs. A4).
Maybe I'm a born optimist - 125,000 miles in an Espace with only a cylinder head gasket at something over 100,000 in the form of major repairs. But that was new in 1988, and Renaults have got worse and Skodas a lot better since then.
Last edited by: Avant on Sat 2 Jun 12 at 15:45
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"But that was new in 1988, and Renaults have got wors"
Car Mechanics this month have a guide to servicing a 2004 Scenic 1.9DCI. Quite who designed the layout, I do not know but he or she or they were complete and utter imbeciles. The palaver needed to change the air and oil filters: undo wheel arch covers, undo lots of bits with inaccessible screws etc - mean by the time it is 5-6 years old and in the independent network to service it.. it will have half its bits missing..
Either that or not have any oil filters changed...
So that explains why the turbos fail.
It really is worth reading if only to show how bad the detail design is. User unfriendly is not strong enough: utter stupidity is more like it..
Last edited by: madf on Sat 2 Jun 12 at 16:20
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Is it the same as the petrols of the era with the stupid oil filter on the side of the block right next to the alternator? Too simple and clean to put it on the bottom...
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>> Is it the same as the petrols of the era with the stupid oil filter
>> on the side of the block right next to the alternator? Too simple and clean
>> to put it on the bottom...
Stupidity in design is not unique to Renault. Nicoles polo has the oil filter two inches away from the exhaust down pipe. The only way the oil is getting changed while its warm is if you are prepared to lose the skin off your hands.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 2 Jun 12 at 16:43
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Do what today's technicians do, Zero. Wear gloves...
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They wear latex gloves, melted latex in your wounds is worse.
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Sounds like a job to avoid zero, after I've done an oil change even with lots of care it's still smells like burnt oil in the cabin when the engine heats up, lovely thanks Renault... You can but mechanics gloves Zero. But even then they aren't heatproof, at work when working on red hot engines I wear a pair of leather gloves, it's still boiling hot and ruddy well hurts !
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Workwear gloves - Aldi - are excellent for those kind of jobs...
I refuse to use latex or nitrile as zero protection after the first stress tears a big hole in them..
(Workwear gloves are also good building gloves , good gardening gloves, and ideal for cleaning things)
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>>
>> Car Mechanics this month have a guide to servicing a 2004 Scenic 1.9DCI.
>>
Cor, I didn't realise that there was still a car magazine that covered useful stuff like that, rather than how fast a 30K shiny lump of metal goes round the 'ring and what kind of statement it makes in the company car park. Will have to go and investigate at the newsagents tomorrow.
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Car Mechanics has some excellent articles - see Back Numbers - on OBD code readers etc.
Since in my old age I still DIY , I bought a code reader based on their assistance: simple and easy to use.. Used to sort out son's ageing and grossly neglected Yaris - .
I suspect it is now aimed at professional mechanics and those few DIYers left - who by necessity have to be more clued up...
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Totally different results from the JDPS here in Germany Mercedes were 1st ,Toyota 2nd,Mitsubishi 3rd,Mazda 4th,Joint 5th BMW and VW,Skoda 6th.full result available at autobild.de.
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JD Power Survey 2012 - WillDeBeest
