Closest call I’ve had for several years.
Joining dualled main road at roundabout, I need to turn right (east) towards town. Got to head of short queue, van appraoching in nearside taking my road as exit. No other relevant traffic visible so I move off heading for inside lane of roundabout.
As van continues his turn I’m suddenly aware of a dark coloured Astra ‘making progress’ onto the roundabout heading west in outside lane. Slammed on brakes, definite ABS action, and stopped as she sailed oblivious across my bows.
Car must have been wholly or partly concealed by the van with tall spring flowers on the verge a contributory factor. The driver, with nothing approaching on the roundabout, convinced herself it was safe to enter without slackening from the 40plus she’d been doing in the carriageway.
Had we contacted I guess it would have been wholly or mainly my fault but IMO she’d failed to react correctly to the potential hazards on the r/bout.
What does the panel think?
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 28 May 12 at 11:08
|
|
As I read it she had priority as she was coming from the right, and you didn't see her and thought there was nothing behind the van. I think it would have been your fault if you'd have hit, but we've all been there bit of complancy etc I know I have.
|
It's hard to get an detailed picture of this incident, but there are definitely a number of people who assume too much when approaching roundabouts.
It often happens when they have a clear view of the road to the right of them, but not to the left.
It seems they will plough through, on the basis that anybody to the left should be giving way to them, and so there can't possibly be a hazard, even if they don't have a clear view.
I can think of at least one roundabout that I use regularly, where the exit road to the right is obscured until you are well onto the roundabout (there is a building on the corner, and then the road bends sharply around it, so you can only see a couple of metres down it, before you enter the roundabout).
So, you have to edge forward, but it doesn't stop the occasional driver blasting into the roundabout from that exit, even though they can't see you anymore than you can see them.
Again, they are seeing that there is nothing to their right, and so assuming that "right of way", will somehow prevent a collision with anything on the left.
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Mon 28 May 12 at 11:27
|
Based on this part of your account
>> The driver, with nothing approaching on the roundabout, convinced herself it was safe to enter without slackening from the 40plus she’d been doing in the carriageway.
I would say that she was at fault. I don't believe that she was following the advice given in the Highway Code (see www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070338), in particular Section 184.
Years ago BSM instilled into me the necessity of being prepared to stop if necessary at a roundabout, especially true if visibility of other traffic is impaired on the approach.
Last edited by: Londoner on Mon 28 May 12 at 11:27
|
You give way to traffic "on the roundabout" full stop. Entering a roundabout and hitting/being hit by someone already on it will your fault every time.
Having said that, there are a lot of people who assume they have roundabout priority long before they actually get on it! Think we have all been caught out by the "fast joiner" which I guess it was in this case.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 28 May 12 at 11:32
|
Sounds like that to me too, Z. I find this a lot: there are two roundabouts I use, one 400m from home, one even less distance from work, that I have to enter from the exit to the left of the fastest, straightest approach. One gives me a good view, the other only what I can pick up in the shop windows opposite, but enough drivers approach with no intention of stopping to make me very wary of fast joiners.
I suspect the problem may be that roundabouts have got smaller. In the early days the principles of 'give way to what's on the roundabout' and 'give way to the right' amounted to pretty much the same thing. Mini-roundabouts have made us flex this a bit, so we allow drivers from the right to enter before we do, but Londers is right that we should approach any junction prepared to slow down or stop if there's someone already there.
So, to return to Bromp's question, I think he has the right to feel aggrieved at the other driver's behaviour, and he probably has the HC on his side. Insurers don't always take the same view, however.
|
>> Think we have all been caught out by
>> the "fast joiner" which I guess it was in this case.
>>
Me too. I have been nearly caught out by a fast joiner from the left.
I was entering a roundabout (from a standstill - traffic lights) intending to turn right when a motor bike joined at high speed from the left and got 3/4 of the way round the roundabout in the time it took me to cross one lane to get to the inner lane.
He must have done it deliberately in order to have the pleasure of hooting at me for being in his way.
|
>> Me too. I have been nearly caught out by a fast joiner from the left.
>> I was entering a roundabout (from a standstill - traffic lights) intending to turn right
>> when a motor bike joined at high speed from the left and got 3/4 of
>> the way round the roundabout in the time it took me to cross one lane
>> to get to the inner lane.
>> He must have done it deliberately in order to have the pleasure of hooting at
>> me for being in his way.
>>
>>
Don't worry about it, we need all the organ donors we can get.
|
That was "er indoors. She's just been telling me about the pillock who nearly got in her way!
:-D
Last edited by: L'escargot on Mon 28 May 12 at 14:15
|
>> As van continues his turn I’m suddenly aware of a dark coloured Astra ‘making progress’
>> onto the roundabout heading west in outside lane. Slammed on brakes, definite ABS action, and
>> stopped as she sailed oblivious across my bows.
>>
I had a similar event some years ago, I was on a roundabout in a truck, just passing the exit before the one I wanted when a woman in a Saab came onto the roundabout without stopping, oblivious to the give way road markings and a truck passing her bows. Needless to say she ran into the side of the truck and continued up the exit I took along with me. LOL.
|
I can't understand what this thread is about at all.
Priority at roundabouts is well known and usually marked on the road. It's quite obvious to me that if one can safely hammer through the roundabout at undiminished speed one damn well should. But visibility varies, and so does the judgement and bottle of other drivers, so there's often an infectious, nervous hesitancy when there's a lot of traffic. Nothing to be done about that obviously. You wait until your road is clear for a couple of seconds and are then gone.
Of course there are those who choose to do everything incredibly slowly as if taking their driving test, even accelerating into fast-moving traffic; there are those who wouldn't know the right lane to be in even if it bit them in the bum; and there are those, perhaps the subject of this thread, who flounder blindly into the roundabout hoping no one will drive into them. These are all well-known hazards.
A special ultra-low region of hell will be reserved for road engineers who deliberately limit the visibility of cars approaching roundabouts by putting up filthy little fences and hedges. The excrement-gobbling carphounds of Surrey will be many of its inhabitants. But they will not be alone.
|
>> I can't understand what this thread is about at all.
Lud, I lack your gift for clear expression. It was here goo.gl/maps/G6Ac
I was turning right. Van I mentioned was going left from A4500 to 'B4525'. The Astra that caused my discombobulation was passing east to west on A4500 towards M1 J16. At time I first saw her she was not on the roundabout but in o/s lane of main road with 25mtrs to run to give way sign and, seeing nothing to her right, committed to a course through the inside of the roundabout. While she may have thought she could hammer through but her view and that of traffic joining was restricted by a vehicle between us and possibly by spring vegetation.
|
I am just as lost as AC on this one with the mix of Left, Right, East, West, offside, nearside, o/s lane main road, inside of roundabout, A roads, B roads, M-way, Astra, Van etc.
A diagram would help.
(Actually I do think I know what you are describing).
|
Had a cracker where a van driver decided that he would enter and do 270 degrees round the roundabout in the outside lane, except where he met me doing 270 degrees on the inside lane, I steered him down to the A3 - not where he wanted to go at all.
He was very abusive about it.
|
>> He was very abusive about it.
Were you both signalling? And who was going faster, you or the van?
|
|
I was, didn't give a merde what he was signalling, he was in the wrong lane according to the arrows on the road, so he was going where I wanted him to and nowhere else.
|
Bit silly of him not to slow down and let you go in that case.
People pulling strokes are the ones who should be ready to give way. Of course even when you're in the right it's certainly preferable, if you are marginally rational, to give way rather than to have a collision and then try to get the damage paid for by some lying twerp's insurance company. The moral high ground is a comfortable place, but not if your car has been damaged in the effort to hold it...
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 28 May 12 at 17:52
|
>> Of course even when you're in the right it's certainly preferable, if you are marginally rational, to give way
Yes AC, I hold the view that it's every road user's responsibility to avoid having accidents. If that means letting a pushy idiot get away with a rash manoeuvre, then I will. The last time I pretended not to see someone trying to nose into a traffic jam they simply drove into my wing - and my insurance paid out to them.
It means I adopt a slightly meek, shrinking violet attitude on the road sometimes, but neither my car nor anything I've driven at work has picked up any battle scars in a decade. And I usually get the jump on them at the next roundabout anyway :)
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Mon 28 May 12 at 18:55
|
|
Yes, let them go for it and hope they have their accident far enough ahead of you not to be a problem.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 28 May 12 at 19:09
|
Hee hee. I had a small white van do that to me in Windsor once when I was driving the Disco.
Normally he'd have been right on the money with a Disco to pull ahead and shoot across its bows at the exit. His mistake was in not noticing that mine said "V8i" on the back, rather than the more common "Tdi". When it came time to hoof it for the carve up, he found that his chosen victim was rather more sprightly than he had anticipated and had to make an unplanned detour.
|
The Council came along yesterday and cut back the grass and stuff on the corner of the junction. Can now see half a mile to the left - back to the previous major junction.
Only now that normal sightlines are restored is it clear how the vegetation had gradually reduced safety margins.
|
Near Miss this Morning - sooty123
