I posted this on HJ's board ages ago but as more and more cars seem to be coming out with triples I thought I would post this again. For what it is worth I actually really like the character or a triple though they are a little bit hesitant off idle (except for the wonderful new Ford engine).
Anyone else like them and anyone owned one: car or bike?
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I remember hearing a Suzuki Kettle (the 750 two stroke triple) on expansion chambers do a orbit round the shops in Salford. Sounded like a loud bucket of bolts until the resonance was achieved and then it positively and loudly howled. Two strokes fire twice as often as four strokes so compared to them, it sounded like it was revving into the stratosphere.
As for the present day, it all depends.
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Agree with Sp, nothing like the sound of a 2-stroke triple (even in a Wartburg).
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Not encountered the kettle but a local guy here has a Kawasaki 400 triple two stroke and it does sound lovely. I wonder how long these things will be allowed on the road for though?
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I love them, on principle really because I've never driven a 3-cylinder car that I can remember for sure. I like 2 cylinder cars too and regard five cylinders with an indulgent eye. But various people have spoken warmly of zippy recent 3 cylinder engines... And I seem to remember the much maligned, florid-styled but knowledgeable and intelligent Setright pointing out that a slightly long-stroke 333(or thereabouts)cc cylinder had ideal volumetric efficiency, whatever that may be, producing the best performance/economy compromise for smallish cars. That means a one-litre three cylinder like this very impressive sounding new Ford effort (which I think is undersquare).
I would want it in a Polo-sized car but the way they are talking they're going to relaunch the Granada with it...
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local guy here has a Kawasaki 400 triple two
>> stroke and it does sound lovely. I wonder how long these things will be allowed
>> on the road for though?
>>
Briefly owned the 750 version and lived to tell the tale; insane power delivery combined with a frame that seemed to hinge in the middle and low-20's fuel economy even when used gently soon had that one moved on but it was fun while it lasted.
If they're run on modern 2-stroke oils they really shouldn't smoke too much.
But enough of ringy-dingy two-strokes. Nothing in the world sounds quite like a well-thrashed Triumph Trident; if you fancy a good day out in July, go to the VMCC's Festival of 1,000 bikes at Mallory Park and see them, and many others in action.
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There was in the late fifties a small plastic two-seater, the Berkeley, which had either a two or a three-cylinder two-stroke motor-bike engine (the three cylinder one could do 90 it was said) in the nose driving the front wheels, unfortunately through a motor-bike gearbox.
Power delivery was violent and on/off, the gearbox was difficult and the thing oversteered wildly on a trailing throttle.
I know this because an acquaintance allowed me to drive his before I had a clue how to drive or a licence, and I crashed it fairly badly. A two-cylinder one I think. Very embarrassing indeed and involved a certain amount of scuffling and telling porkies to the BiB. No one was hurt though. And the car's owner didn't refuse to speak to me thereafter as many might have done.
Nevertheless it's a thing I don't really care to remember. !956 or 7.
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I won't hear a bad word said about LJK Setright: I thought he and all the other CAR Magazine contributors (when it was the best motoring mag in the world) were fantastic as a kid and still love them now.
I will have to have a look at that Bike event but talking of two stroke triples: the old Saab 95 rally car sounds just sublime. I like the sound of modern four stroke triples though. The Citroen C1 etc sounds lovely with a great exhaust rasp. I have a soft spot for the old VW 1,4 TDI engine as well in the Skoda Fabia: very gutsy little thing and preferable to the rasping but gutless 1,2 HTP petrols. The Ford engine in the new Focus sounds good too but it is very quiet and smooth.
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>> I won't hear a bad word said about LJK Setright: I thought he and all
>> the other CAR Magazine contributors (when it was the best motoring mag in the world)
>> were fantastic as a kid and still love them now.
>>
He wrote for Bike magazine as well, in the earlier days; I too am a fan. I loved his prose, and can still remember his comment about side-carring; "the art of doing the impossible with the unrideable" which if you've ever watched a well-handled sports outfit on a twisty road you'll fully appreciate.
Two stroke triples of a slightly different bent; the unmistakeable wail of a Commer TS3 lorry.
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>> a thing I don't really care to remember.
... which may be the reason for my slightly imperfect memory of the Berkeley: the one I crashed must have been a three cylinder one because that was the one with four wheels. The two-cylinder model had one wheel at the back like a Morgan, but not driven.
It was a very long time ago. I was just 18 I think.
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Buongiorno signora... bit of kip now I think...
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Perkins did a 3-cylinder diesel in the 1950s, a favourite conversion for the Ferguson tractor, and also for the LandRover before there was a diesel option.
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I loved the 99bhp 999cc three-pot engine in the Daihatsu Charade gtti in the mid-nineties - 0-60 in 7.7 seconds, quicker than the Golf GTi. There also used to be the Japanese tax-linked city car K engines (up to 660cc) producing a maximum of 64bhp, which always sounded good...:-)
Last edited by: Stuartli on Mon 21 May 12 at 09:19
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Never owned one but driven plenty.
Liked one of the earlys, the late 80/90's Suzuki Swift, revvy little beast, sounded like a 5 pot when driven hard.
Like the Aygo/C1/107, engine very torquey and almost impossible to stall, always thought that little engine should have had a low pressure turbo option.
Hated the Corsa engine, as found in nearly every ex BSM car, engine so weak that the car could not pull itself up onto the transporter, had to take a run up, got to be the weakest engine its been my misfortune to drive since the lean burn 1.4 in mk 4 escort.
Apart from the Corsa 3 cyls @ 1000cc seems to have better torque than 4, probably obvious but stark contrast in low speed grunt, you wouldn't have a 2 litre V8 unless you were going to run above 3000rpm nearly all day.
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>> I loved the 99bhp 999cc three-pot engine in the Daihatsu Charade gtti in the mid-nineties
>> - 0-60 in 7.7 seconds, quicker than the Golf GTi.
I loved it too. Sounded weirdly like a 911 at middling RPM.
Insanely fast for what it was
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQiTMBRLCvw
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I posted a while ago about a mate who had a Charade GTti. I remember it as it was terrifying. All or nothing turbo giving you boost when you least expected/wanted it, lift off oversteer and panels which felt they were made of paper.
With the noise and the white knuckle handling you could almost convince yourself you were driving a 911 Turbo.
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>>slightly imperfect memory of the Berkeley
A little history: www.pearsy.co.uk/BerkModels.htm
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>> A little history:
Thank you bt. Evidently the thing was at least amusing in the hands of someone who could drive. Or rather, someone who had learned to drive a Berkeley whose characteristics were the ones I describe above and which, combined with my own late-adolescent jumpiness, cockiness and total incompetence, resulted in a crash into someone's very substantial stone bank on the other side of a road with a fair amount of traffic on it. Very fortunate no other car was contacted as we at least might then have been injured.
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And by the way, note that I was still wrong about Berkeley wheel and cylinder numbers the second time around. I didn't know the single rear wheel was optional.
It may have been safer than the four-wheel option though in clodhopping hands like mine. The rear suspension may have been independent but was of fairly crude swing-axle type. Power-off it could get very frisky at the back like most swing-axle cars.
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>Agree with Sp, nothing like the sound of a 2-stroke triple (even in a Wartburg). <
I guess, as ever, that I am alone here in being able to vouch personally for the lovely sound of the Wartburg 991cc triple (ex-DKW of course). It used to wind up like an electric motor.
The SAAB 96 sounded even nicer - and also shared its ancestry with DKW IIRC.
I saw a lovely, but white and purple, Suzuki Kettle in Menton last winter and - with a sidelong glance at SWMBO - actually asked the guy if it might be for sale. It wasn't.
Last edited by: Mike Hannon on Mon 21 May 12 at 10:24
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When I was at school the rich kids had Kawasaki KH250s (another two stroke triple). You could ride on on an L plate and it would do a genuine 90 (indicated 100+). Claimed mpg was 43 according to a search I did this morning, but a real world figure was nearly half that!
Probably the fastest and thirstiest bike you could have off the shelf on an L plate then, before the capacity reductions. (My father had a 350 on an L plate...).
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Sound? One of these is wot you need: tinyurl.com/7vufy7r
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>> I guess, as ever, that I am alone here in being able to vouch personally
>> for the lovely sound of the Wartburg 991cc triple
I didn't own one but used to drive my sisters Knight regularly, went like a scalded cat and sounded wondrous.
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I had a go in a VW Up! a couple of weeks ago - the lower power output version (a Move Up! I think - 60PS). I thought it was a cracking little car - very willing engine, with a lovely 'thrum' to it. The whole car was deeply impressive in terms of feel - nothing like a small car really. My only criticism was that it was a little breathless on A road sliproads (not it's intended habitat I know), and I expect the higher powered (75PS) High Up! would be a better all-rounder
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Which reminds me, the VW Up!, as is the way with many small cars nowadays, is available with a selection of optional graphics. The roof one saying 'This way Up!' made me chuckle. They do have a sense of humour, ze Germans...
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Three cylinders: love them or hate them? - Slidingpillar
