Compare this with the Skye road bridge that was one of the first PFI's. Cost of building the bridge to the consortium was approx £25 million (with the Scottish Office providing £15 million for the approach roads, road improvements and decommissioning the ferry route).
The consortium operating the bridge collected £33.3 million in tolls over the period 1995 to 2004, with operating costs estimated to be £3.5 million.
The consortium were bought out in 2004 by the Scottish Government for £27 million, and the bridge made toll-free.
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Cost in 1992-1995 = £25m
Net profit '95-'04 = (£30m)
Sale price............= (£27m)
Net scheme cash = £32m profit for investors.
So that's 128% return over 10 years. say 1994-2004. 8.5% return p.a.
It's not a bad return, but it's hardly stellar, is it.
You have no mention of interest costs in your numbers. If it was leveraged then of course the return will have been better.
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I like "For whom The Toll Bills"!
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I don't do much UK motorway driving these days but I've been past the junction near the NEC a few times in the past couple of years.
Am I the only one who thinks the road markings and signage there are designed to mislead you into joining the toll road?
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>> Am I the only one who thinks the road markings and signage there are designed
>> to mislead you into joining the toll road?
>>
Don't think so Mike I do that run every Monday morning, have done for the last 18 months or so, going onto the toll road, don't find it a confusing junction at all.
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>> Am I the only one who thinks the road markings and signage there are designed
>> to mislead you into joining the toll road?
I've mentioned before the big signs before you get to the junction which usually say 'Toll road clear' but don't tell you anything about the state of the ordinary M6.
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I certainly do agree with you Mike.
When it first opened there was many a lorry driver got on the toll road by mistake and had to pay the toll out of his own pocket.
It's not hard for the unwary to do that with the signage.
Pat
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The junction (going South anyway) is definitely configured to make going down the toll road the 'natural' choice.
If they want more revenue they should probably drop the cost - £5 is a lot to possibly avoid 1/2 hour delay (which hasn't been as bad recently anyway!)
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>> Am I the only one who thinks the road markings and signage there are designed
>> to mislead you into joining the toll road?
>>
Not just there, many of the junctions mid section are misleadingly signed to trap the unwary, in some cases you could be on the road for literally 5 minutes over a short section, expensive error that....caught my mate out, i don't recall it happening to me but purely by good luck.
Its the misleading signage and the M6 matrix signs conveniently telling your the Toll is clear whilst as said, no mention of the normal route that i object to.
I ran Trafficmaster for many years, and dire warnings of M6 delays to encourage Toll use often didn't correspond to the up to date information on my screen...backed up by my journey through the usual M6.
Whats always struck me as odd is just how cheap it is for HGVs, 44tons @ £11 is relatively good value considering the road damage inflicted when they want £5.50 for a one ton car...i daren't ask what they expect a motorcyclist to cough up.
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£3.00 for a bike, managed to blag a freebie once though. The Dartford crossing (QE bridge) is free for bikes. Common sense that. I failed to blag the Irish toll operators....nice people though.
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I do use it and have since it opened and before someone says "All very well if you're on Xs" I used to use it when I wasn't.
However, it makes sense to me if I'm doing a London round trip. By the time I've paid for 360 miles worth of fuel, £10 worth of con charge and maybe £35 worth of parking, the extra £11 seems relatively do-able to save at least half an hour each way on what is already a long old day.
I've often thought a £5 or something a day flat rate to use any motorways or combination of them would be a good thing. I read somewhere that most motorway congestion can be attributed to local "hoppers on and off" * who could have used a local road but choose to dive down one junction.if you could get on at Glasgow and get off at Plymouth or drive from Birmingham to Leeds, have a meeting and drive back for a fiver but be fairly sure of a clear road I'd pay it whether it was from my own pocket or not.
*Probably trying to clear their DPFs eh?
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Road use taxation already exists in road fuel. Why create a whole new bureaucracy for any new tax. Unless it is a government job creation scheme. I realise that fuel taxation is reducing but it is a little premature to require a replacement tax.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 15 May 12 at 20:05
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>> Road use taxation already exists in road fuel. Why create a whole new bureaucracy for
>> any new tax. Unless it is a government job creation scheme.
Tax from fuel is going down, cars doing more MPG, cars running on gas, electric cars
A new source of revenue needs to be found.
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I suppose it would be too much to expect for politicians to spend less of our money?
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>> too much to expect for politicians to spend less of our money?
Money is there to be spent. What we have a right to expect is that they waste as little of it as possible.
No harm in hoping eh?
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>> I suppose it would be too much to expect for politicians to spend less of
>> our money?
Yeah of course, less services is the answer.
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>> >> I suppose it would be too much to expect for politicians to spend less
>> of our money?
>>
>> Yeah of course, less services is the answer.
>>
Less duckponds....
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What that article doesn't say (unless I missed it) is use of the toll road has always been well short of the original business plan, which if I recall correctly was for around double the number of vehicles that are actually using it.
I'm on expenses but I don't use it unless it's peak time, and to still have the same charge off-peak is just ridiculous. It's also bonkers that the M6 through Brum is still snarled up at peak times as people won't pay for the toll road.
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>> However, it makes sense to me if I'm doing a London round trip ...
>> ... the extra £11 seems relatively do-able to save at least
>> half an hour each way on what is already a long old day.
Perhaps half an hour if the normal road is badly congested, but not if it isn't - the toll is only 27 miles long, and looks on the map to be about the same length as the normal alternative. So even doing 80 on the (clear) toll instead of 60 on the (busy) M6 would only save you 7 minutes, and that's not taking into account the toll payment pit stop (a minute?).
EDIT: actually the payment should be quicker than that I guess, even allowing for the slowing down/speeding up
Last edited by: Focus on Wed 16 May 12 at 07:26
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It's hard to access it travelling from the M54 - there must be a geographical problem why they did it like that, but doubling back to access it is a nonsense.
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>> It's hard to access it travelling from the M54 -
Yes its really poor, by the time you've taken either of the routes from M54, jct 1 or 2, and reached the start of Toll, you would be down by the M5 split.
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>> It's hard to access it travelling from the M54 - there must be a geographical
>> problem why they did it like that, but doubling back to access it is a
>> nonsense.
>
Up and down there fairly regularly. Friends near Wrexham whose son is going out with Miss B
Used to go up to Gailey and double back via A5/A449. Friends then pointed out that last junction on toll (T9?) and the A460 to M54 J2 was much shorter. Less than five minutes I'd say albeit on a road with several speed limit changes and cameras.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 16 May 12 at 10:07
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M6 toll not paying - Auristocrat
