There was an interesting discussion yesterday on Radio Cornwall about these ere blimmin filters which included some advice from a grease monkey in a local Nissan dealership.
If y'all interested in listening to the piece, move the cusor along to 1hr 29 mins as its a 3 hour prog.
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00qsvs3/Laurence_Reed_24_04_2012/
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Eh, the DPF discussion is 30 mins btw :)
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Might play this to a relative who is constantly complaining about the fuel economy of his 1.6 TDCi C-Max which is only used round the houses.
And yes, we did try to warn him before he bought it.
Last edited by: DP on Wed 25 Apr 12 at 14:40
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This has been discussed here, I remember saying that after 30 odd years of diesel cars my next one would be petrol. (Cue missfuel!) My Ceed was one of the last ones built without a DPF and will be kept for as long as possible.
There are too many unscrupulous car sales people around (they must hate the likes of us), but it will come back to bite them with few or no repeat sales.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 25 Apr 12 at 14:57
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Good point there, ON. I bet most of us on this forum know someone who has had to fork out big time because of their DPF.
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It's also worth pointing out that DPFs are generally trouble-free as long as the car gets fairly frequent runs at a constant, reasonable speed with the engine at operating temperature.
My car has a DPF, but with my usage, I don't give it a second thought, to be honest. I wouldn't expect it to cause any problems.
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>> It's also worth pointing out that DPFs are generally trouble-free as long as the car
>> gets fairly frequent runs at a constant, reasonable speed with the engine at operating temperature.
>>
>> My car has a DPF, but with my usage, I don't give it a second
>> thought, to be honest. I wouldn't expect it to cause any problems.
>>
True, but it is the miss selling to people unaware that DPF fitted cars are not suitable for local runabout use that is the problem.
Or people being unaware that DPFs exist.
I will be switching to petrol because since I retired my car use has changed, but my non DPF diesel is ideal. Many do not know that diesels have changed.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 25 Apr 12 at 15:59
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True, and it takes a very honest salesman in today's economic climate to turn away business, especially as many "traditional" diesel drivers simply cannot be persuaded. My father in law being a case in point.
Hopefully the new small capacity direct injection turbo petrol units will provide a good alternative for those who want decent, torquey performance and low VED/fuel consumption.
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>> Hopefully the new small capacity direct injection turbo petrol units will provide a good alternative
>> for those who want decent, torquey performance and low VED/fuel consumption.
>>
I am yet to be convinced by the lawnmower engine with a turbo theory. I will go for a reasonably big petrol engine in a small bodyshell.
Still it is a long way off for me, there are many years left in my non DPF diesel Ceed.
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>> I
>> will go for a reasonably big petrol engine in a small bodyshell.
>>
>> Still it is a long way off for me, there are many years left in
>> my non DPF diesel Ceed.
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I suspect that when your C'eed is up for replacement the number of small cars with reasonably big petrol engines will be as rare as diesels without DPFs - they will have been taxed out of the market.
I've driven diesels for nigh on 20 years and have never had DPF problems.
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>>
>> I've driven diesels for nigh on 20 years and have never had DPF problems.
>>
Probably because they have only been a mandatory fit from January 2011.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 26 Apr 12 at 15:29
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>> Probably because they have only been a mandatory fit from January 2011.
... on cars. Although many cars have had DPFs from before then. I know my Mazda6 did from 2007. Yes the oil went up a bit but I never had DPF issues...
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>> Or people being unaware that DPFs exist.
>> Many do not know that diesels have changed.
The new ones that I deliver all have a mirror hanger with DPF warnings and instructions; we are told to leave it in place and point it out to the customer. There are also oversized handbook inserts and a tag on the keyring.
Of course, by the time they take delivery it's a bit late for them to decide if a DPF is for them...
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>>by the time they take delivery it's a bit late for them to decide if a DPF is for them<<
Or, if they buy the critter 2nd hand from Honest Dave's used car sales like many buyers will.
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>> Or, if they buy the critter 2nd hand from Honest Dave's used car sales
No DPF on the Mondeo here ;) Although if there was I'd keep schtum at selling time...
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I think DPFs are a good thing. Sort of a punishment for those who are too fat or idle to walk or cycle their stupidly short journeys and unnecessarily clog up roads for those who need to use them.
So there !
:-)
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You're full of the joys of spring today...
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No I'm fine thanks ! ( well apart from the issue of the gas strut on my office chair which has decided to gradually lower me randomly all day, I'm typing this from a very odd angle )
No, it was just a "Eureka" moment or Karmic or something...
:-)
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Wed 25 Apr 12 at 16:48
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Perhaps you could do with losing a bit of weight Humph.
:)
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Like a racing snake me...
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It cost me £170 to delete mine. I was quoted 10x that by Audi to replace it.
Another stupid idea by politicians.
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Sooty, has your car been for an MOT since the delete, and did you discuss forthcoming MOT changes with the converter at all please.
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Have I got that right sooty.You spend £170 to get writ of the DPF filter?
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>> £170 to get writ of the DPF filter?
I'd happily fork out that amount as long as I was assured that their would be no problems come MOT time.
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Just a discussion but why?Nobody forces you to buy a diesel.This filter is there for a reason fine particles of soot clogging up peoples longs.
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Good point, Dutchie, but my thoughts here are for the folk that buy cars with a DPF, but are totally unaware of their limitations.
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And that's precisely what concerned the journo on Radio Cornwall - car sales folk being economical
With the truth.
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>>their would be no problems...
OK, I've spotted it, but too late to edit!
:)
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Hmm
I have learned when buying anything to do some research.
It would appear a lot of car buyers are suckers and ,what is worse, dumb suckers...
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As a confirmed petrolhead, I'm pleased that there isn't a similar amount of controversy over petrol engines!
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Petrol engines? Whole uvver can of worms them Squire...Now yer petrol engine see,....etc...etc...
:-)
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Sorry for the late reply, the £170 was to remove the post-cat and DPF combo from under the middle of the car. Once removed they took it outside and in the yard, they stuck a crowbar into the inlet end and rammed it in and out until the filling came out of the outlet in a pile of soot and crummage. They then refitted it.
There was no filling left inside it, just a hollow box. A mobile company changed the ECU software for them as it was beyond the scope of the small local garage with silver-haired engineers.
No welding or seams for an MOT inspection to see.
The car never ran so well, no increase in mpg though. Tailpipes are now sooty inside, they were always spotless before. Maybe I should autosol the insides before MOT?
The MOT inspector's manual says that it has to be obvious it has been removed or hollowed out and they have to be sure it originally had one when new, but if in doubt they should give benefit of doubt.
At the time it was stressful as it did take 10 days of diagnosis, discussion, and carrying out the work, as it was the first time they had come across the problem and were booked up with other work too.
If I owned or was buying another diesel at the age of DPF failure, I would google "DPF delete :name of car:" just to see if there was a precedent.
Last edited by: sooty tailpipes on Thu 26 Apr 12 at 16:56
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>> they have to be sure it originally had one when new
The massive bulge and wiring connection in the exhaust pipe would be a good pointer... Do the MoT testers not just enter the reg. no and the computer comes up with the exact build spec and applicable limits for that individual car?
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Thu 26 Apr 12 at 17:53
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If there is still a bulge in the exhaust and wires, then they won't suspect it has been removed as it hasn't. There are no new diesel smoke emission tests for newer or DPF-fitted diesels, just the original 1994 ones that any newer diesel should pass with flying colours, DPF or not.
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Presence of catalyst is only for spark ignition engines. Emissions for diesel were tightened up for cars post 1st July 2008 - 1.5 m-1 for all engines compared to 2.5 m-1 for non turbo and 3 m-1 for turbo cars before 01/07/08.
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>> Presence of catalyst is only for spark ignition engines.
My last two (or maybe three) diesels have had a catalytic converter. They are oxidation cats and different to petrol cats.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 26 Apr 12 at 23:36
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Yes, almost all diesels have simple oxidising catalysts since the mid-1990s.
Latterly, most DPFs also have a catalyst just before them (maybe ones that use urea additives such as Adblue don't) this catalyst creates the high regeneration temperatures by catalysing the additional fuel which is injected during regeneration.
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Indeed, but I was referring the MOT requirements - where the text is 'CAT not present where vehicle qualifies for CAT test' - which only applies to petrol engines.
The cat is in fact a reduction catalyst, as it reduces NOX to nitrogen and oxygen.
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If diesel engines didn't produce so much particulate matter they wouldn't need particulate filters.
;-)
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>> If diesel engines didn't produce so much particulate matter they wouldn't need particulate filters.
>> ;-)
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They don't need them, its the people who insist on breathing the exhaust fumes that are the problem. :-)
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Diesel particulate filters - Dog
