I have recently had a BMW 520d SE on a 3 day extended test drive and here are my thoughts.
To put a bit of background to this, my company car is due for renewal and I had originally short listed a Merc E and a 5 series for test drives. Unfortunately the E has now been removed from my list so although I wasn’t that keen, I decided to drive an Audi A S-Line as a comparison to the BMW 5 series.
The report on the Audi A6 is here:
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=9922
Anyway, the BM was delivered and had circa 5,000 miles under its belt so was loosened up nicely. Initial impressions on driving it away were underwhelming. I was expecting a lot but it just felt a bit flat. It felt a bit faster than the Audi, a bit better ride, a bit better handling but nowhere near what I was expecting. The car also had a very lethargic feel to it.
I parked it up and did some research overnight.
The car was loaded up with options and I believed it was also fitted with variable dampers. As I couldn’t get that option, I just left the car in comfort as I believed this was as close as I could get to a standard car.
However, the button that moved from Sport to Comfort is standard. It adjusts the weight of the steering, the throttle response and the revs that the auto gearbox changes at. The car did NOT have the optional variable dampers.
Using this button did make the car much better. Leave it in Comfort for most driving including motorways for a relaxing drive but a quick flick to Sport for overtaking or fast B road blasts and the car was much better. Still a bit of a barge but it is a large car and it you want total B road thrills, perhaps a 3 series is better suited.
On the motorway, it was excellent. 80MPH was 2,000 RPM in 8th gear and the car felt effortless. Steering weight was heavier than the Audi and had a nice feel to it. Wind noise was very low, lower than the Audi for sure.
Inside, the BMW did feel smaller than the Audi even though you did have plenty of space but I felt the seats were not as comfortable as the Audi’s. Surprisingly BMW charge you if you want to add lumber support which I think is a total rip-off in a car costing over £30k. All in all though, the BMW is an excellent mile muncher as I expected.
B road thrills are there if you allow for the bulk of the car but it is not streets ahead of the Audi by any means, slightly better, just a bit….
Boot size goes to the Audi. Officially there is only 20 litres in it but the Audi is a more uniform shape so is more usable.
If you are paying your own fuel, the BMW is significantly better than the Audi (according to trip computers). The Audi was about 40MPG, the BM about 55MPG with 55MPG easily shown on an 80MPH motorway run.
So, decision time after 600 miles in the BMW and similar number in the Audi A6 S-Line.
I went into the Audi expecting little but it over delivered. I went into the BMW expecting a lot and it under delivered. Ultimately there is swings and roundabouts of both cars but they end up both as very good cars and are difficult to separate.
I fully accept that some people may say that the S-Line Audi and the SE BMW are not fair comparisons and I should be comparing the M Sport. Well they are the same price to me from my lease company so that is why they are being compared.
The BMW is a slightly better driver and is more economical (however as I have a fuel card that is of no concern to me). The Audi has better equipment (Sat Nav, Sports seats with lumber, better quality leather, better stereo, Xenon’s) but lacks heated seats and electric seat adjustment.
Whichever car I choose, I think I will be satisfied.
Any questions, please fire away
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Very good report, what did you think to the interiors of both cars? Were they set out in a way you expected, everything to hand etc? Is m'way driving the key to your needs are you mainly a m'way driver?
'(however as I have a fuel card that is of no concern to me).'
If I understand these things, that's very rare in a company car?
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>> Very good report, what did you think to the interiors of both cars? Were they
>> set out in a way you expected, everything to hand etc? Is m'way driving the
>> key to your needs are you mainly a m'way driver?
I drive about 30k a year and a fair bit of it is on the motorway but as I live in rural Gloucestershire, I do very little town driving.
The interior quality of the Audi was better than the BMW, much more tactile however it was laid out in a more 'clinical' fashion. They were both very ergonomic and did their job but the BMW was a bit more 'homely'.
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How do you get the cars to test drive? Does your company give you them or is it a dealer? Both sound very nice, when do you have to choose by?
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If it's anything like our lease company, we get up to 3 cars for 48 hour test drives. I managed to get a car for 72 hours from my local dealer who also then got to provide the car too (if I ordered one having liked it) - but this dealer supplies hundreds of cars nationwide to the lease company.
If I was a900ss I'd look at the A6 in SE trim because the ride will be softer. Just my personal opinion. Had the new A6 been out when I was choosing I'd have taken a serious look. The old, soon to be discontinued A6 was on the list at a good price.
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>> ..as I live in rural Gloucestershire,
>>
Do you have a view on use in snow/ice?
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Our lease company can arrange cars for the weekend ahead of making a choice.
Sadly, I couldn't drive the BMW as it didn't exist outside of spy shots when I ordered it, and I was going to try an A4 until I sat in a colleague's example and instantly took a dislike to the driving position. As a manual, the A4's offset pedal position is, to put it bluntly, inexcusable.
Some of the higher grade guys here have the 520d EfficientDynamics autos, and rate them highly.
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But you didn't drive the A4, DP? I've not driven an A6 yet but I sat in a manual one, full of trepidation about the devilish offset pedals and thought, this really isn't too bad; far less of a problem than an offset steering wheel, anyway. I actually thought the A6's footwell was pretty well laid out - better than the equivalent Volvo, I'm sorry to say.
I'll report back on whether this impression is borne out in driving the thing.
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Asked for a new quote list today as I really can't decide between the cars but I now have a but....
I can get a BMW touring but not an Audi estate for my monthly limit. That might just be the clincher.
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>> >> ..as I live in rural Gloucestershire,
>> >>
>> Do you have a view on use in snow/ice?
>>
My current car is a Legacy so obviously no problems in the snow with that. My previous car was a C220 Cdi with huge rear wheels. Again, never got stuck.
Even in the worst of conditions, the most i'll be out of action in a RWD car is 3 or 4 days a year and I can always work from home.
On the flip side, I don't really expect an A6 S Line with 245 section tyres to be that much better in the snow than the 225 section BMW tyres.
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None of my beeswax but my choice would be the BMW. If I'm given a choice next time I might well go for one of those. I have an e class estate at present which is indeed a pleasing thing but I could imagine liking the 5 series just as much.
Trivial aside, but it has been years since I had a RWD and I'd quite forgotten how much nicer they are to drive and indeed how much easier they are to park having a much better lock than 4x4s or FWDs.
The estate factor would definitely swing it for me too in your scenario.
Nice choices to have in any event.
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>> On the flip side, I don't really expect an A6 S Line with 245 section tyres to be that much
>> better in the snow than the 225 section BMW tyres.
In snow or icy conditions I'd say the front wheel drive A6 might be better than the BMW 5 series which will easily spin the rear wheels.
I am surprised an A6 SE Avant is not on your list... must be a similar price to the equivalent BMW.
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>> I am surprised an A6 SE Avant is not on your list... must be a
>> similar price to the equivalent BMW.
It has a higher rate of depreciation and hence will have a higher lease cost.
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>> >> I am surprised an A6 SE Avant is not on your list... must be
>> a
>> >> similar price to the equivalent BMW.
>>
>> It has a higher rate of depreciation and hence will have a higher lease cost.
>>
That could well be it.
Also on my list is lots of vx insignias of a much cheaper purchase price than a BMW/Audi but low residuals hence a similar lease cost to a 5 series BMW.
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>> Also on my list is lots of vx insignias of a much cheaper purchase price
>> than a BMW/Audi but low residuals hence a similar lease cost to a 5 series
>> BMW.
>>
When I worked for a big company we could have various "mass market" (that's a joke, BMW probably outsells them!) cars with higher equipment levels, or 3 Series BMWs or Audi A4s.
I had a couple of Peugept 406 Executive's - very nice 2.0L turbo petrol, electric memory heated leather seats etc etc. Those cars had NO options - even metallic paint was standard. The climate control worked better than the one in my current Merc!
However my colleagues (about a 50/50 split between Audi & BMW) all thought I was bonkers. But if had had the option having an A6 or a 5 Series, then the 406 wouldn't have had a chance!
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>> >> On the flip side, I don't really expect an A6 S Line with 245
>> section tyres to be that much
>> >> better in the snow than the 225 section BMW tyres.
>>
>> In snow or icy conditions I'd say the front wheel drive A6 might be better
>> than the BMW 5 series which will easily spin the rear wheels.
>>
>> I am surprised an A6 SE Avant is not on your list... must be a
>> similar price to the equivalent BMW.
>>
I'm guessing a poor snow performance for the Audi by a VW Passat that I had for a few days last winter. That FWD car was also 'over tyred' and was awful in the snow.
The A6 SE Avant isn't on the list but if it was up against the BMW 5 SE, I'd choose the BMW. As per my first post, the BMW is the better car but only slightly. So if I could get the better equipped S Line Audi, that evens things up vs the SE BMW. The Audi SE is second to the BMW SE in my opinion...... Just!!!!
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>> I'm guessing a poor snow performance for the Audi by a VW Passat that I
>> had for a few days last winter. That FWD car was also 'over tyred' and
>> was awful in the snow.
>>
I wondered how you'd answer that! Apparently Audi's are surprisingly useless in snow.
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Aye, but, I think I'd still rather have a RWD for the 360 days a year when it's preferable. To me anyway. Each to their own of course.
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I did wonder if the A6 SE was not there due to depreciation but with a lower list price and similar depreciation I'd have thought it would be on the list. Whether it is competitive is another matter. Maybe the list for a900ss is a lot simpler than I got. I could have any model from the companies on the list if in my price range. So a Mazda RX-8 or MX-5 or BMW 5 series or... a lot of models/cars.
When I looked at our list early last year the BMW 5 series 520d SE (not ED) was about £12/month pay up for me.... when I ordered it was about £90/month extra. So these lease companies lists/prices change all the time.
I had thought for ages I really wanted an Audi, and it was the A5 Sportback in particular. But the prices were high. But then I sat in an A4 for a bit (not driven) and tried out the ergonomics.... and I don't think they work for me. MMI on paper is better than the BMW equivalent but a touchscreen is better still IMO.
I think from the info in this thread I'd go for the BMW if I was a900ss. The new 3-series is very good as well and I'd consider that before the 5-series if I was a900ss.
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I should add my Passat is probably 'over tyred' too but not had any challenging moments yet. But that's through luck this winter. It's only got 18" wheels and the Audi A6 probably has 19" wheels.
On Saturday I enjoyed the Kirkstone Pass in it.... today it was closed due to snow.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 4 Apr 12 at 23:43
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Just in case anyone is interested, here is my list of possible cars. Please note that my preference is for Auto.
A4
2.0 TDI 177 Black Edition 4dr Multitronic Saloon Special Editions Saloon EU5 MY12.5
2.0 TDI 143 Black Edition 5dr Multitronic Avant Special Editions Estate EU5 MY12.5
2.0 TDI 177 Black Edition 5dr Multitronic Avant Special Editions Estate EU5 MY12.5
A5
2.0 TDI 143 S Line 5dr Multitronic Diesel Sportback Hatch EU5 MY12
2.0 TDI 177 S Line 5dr Multitronic [5 Seat] Diesel Sportback Hatch EU5 MY12
2.0 TDI 177 S Line 5dr Multitronic Diesel Sportback Hatch EU5 MY12
A6
2.0 TDI SE 5dr Diesel Avant Estate EU5 MY12
2.0 TDI S Line 4dr Diesel Saloon Saloon EU5 MY12
2.0 TDI S Line 4dr Multitronic Diesel Saloon Saloon EU5 MY12
2.0 TDI S Line 5dr Diesel Avant Estate EU5 MY12
5 Series
520d SE 4dr Step Auto [Start Stop] [Prof Media] Saloon EU5 MY12
520d SE 5dr Step Auto [Start Stop] Estate EU5 MY12
520d M Sport 4dr Step Auto [Start Stop] Saloon EU5 MY12
520d M Sport 5dr Estate EU5 MY12 - Manual
525d [218] SE 4dr Saloon EU5 MY12 - Manual
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From that list I'd probably go for the A6 SE Avant manual. A4's are a bit small and the spec of an A5 is not great.
I am surprised the Technik variant of the A4 is not on your list - although not sure if that is available since the A4 was revised and can you get it with Multitronic?
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Get out of it, there is only one game in town on that list and it has the M badge on the back.
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Interesting that this thread has spawned a quite different discussion - but hopefully equally useful to you - from he one on the HJ forum.
There are some seeming anomalies on that list of cars - produced no doubt by some saddo who is looking through some form of depreciation stats. If you would go for the 520 Touring rathern than the saloon, but also like the idea of an automatic Audi with 5 doors, is it worth looking at the A5 Sportback which you can have as an automatic?
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From that list I'd also be working out differences in BIK/Tax and personal mileage if you pay it.
It's not a simple choice from a list after all. There is a cost difference to you too.
My Passat CC is a lot better specified than the Mazda6 that preceded it. Cost difference to me (ignoring improved MPG) is about £50/month. That takes into account options and BIK calculations.
In real terms this is costing me less than the Passat 1.8T Sport I had in 2000! I paid up a fair bit for that.
Just looked at HJ so from the comment on discussion... there doesn't seem to be one on HJ! Apart from a900ss posting twice and Avant replying :-) Or is there more than one thread there?
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 5 Apr 12 at 23:26
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Sorry - I meant the original Audi thread on HJ to which there's a link. The BMW thread has only just started.
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Were the wipers re-positioned for RHD?
I also heard that RHD cars get less space in footwell compared to LHD cars - is that true?
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>> Were the wipers re-positioned for RHD?
>>
Yes.
>> I also heard that RHD cars get less space in footwell compared to LHD cars
>> - is that true?
>>
Can't comment on that as I haven't been in a LHD car.
The BIK implications are certainly valid but the best and worst cars on that list have a maximum delta of just under £40/month so I have put tht to one side for now. The BMW 5 is generally £20-£30 cheaper per month than the equivalent Audi.
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One thing that I just can't get out of my head and is certainly influencing my decision is that as a car enthusiast, I simply must prefer a BMW to an Audi!
As a car enthusiast I must have RWD over FWD!
The actual driving experience of both cars only slightly supports both statements above but my heart is screaming ’you like cars, get the BMW'
Marketing is certainly at play here......
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I think once you get to 'know' the car after several thousand miles that RWD feel will grow - I still enjoy getting the exit from a roundabout or corner just right applying the power at just the right moment feeling the back end work and actually going round the corner rather than scuffing across it. I'm sure the fwd Audis are extremely capable but if you sometimes enjoy your driving it is the small things like this which make the difference.
(I used to think it was marketing bs too)
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>> I think once you get to 'know' the car after several thousand miles that RWD
>> feel will grow - I still enjoy getting the exit from a roundabout or corner
>> just right applying the power at just the right moment feeling the back end work
>> and actually going round the corner rather than scuffing across it. I'm sure the fwd
>> Audis are extremely capable but if you sometimes enjoy your driving it is the small
>> things like this which make the difference.
>>
>> (I used to think it was marketing bs too)
>>
I don't think I made myself clear enough.
I have had plenty of RWD and FWD cars and without exception prefer the RWD experience. However these two particular cars are so close (regardless of which wheels are being driven) in the driving performance, that I am defaulting to steroetypical RWD/FWD thoughs even though I do not believe this to be a major factor.
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It isn't bs Pezzer. I am old enough to have been "brought up" on RWD. Then of course as the fashion for FWD took hold most of the cars I've had in recent years have been FWD or 4x4. My employer gave me an E class estate 6 months or so ago and I am now reminded of how much I prefer RWD.
I am totally convinced that from now on, while I (or someone else) can afford it, that I shall stick with RWD.
Sure, there will be an odd day now and then when the other configurations might be more useful for a bit of traction from rest but having spent my formative driving years in Scotland in RWD vehicles it doesn't faze me to live with or cope with them in extreme weather conditions. It's just a different technique is all and once on the move even in slippery conditions I'd much rather compensate for a bit of tail wag than plough on understeer.
For the rest and ideed majority of the time I much prefer the front to steer and the back to push.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Fri 6 Apr 12 at 10:00
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"As a car enthusiast I must have RWD over FWD!.....my heart is screaming ’you like cars, get the BMW'.....Marketing is certainly at play here...... "
Marketing, and the siren voices of the road testers. If a lot of your motoring is on twisty B-roads, or like Humph you instinctivelty prefer RWD, then the BMW will suit you best. I'm a car enthusiast but maybe I drive too slowly (I didn't think so!) but I really don't notice a huge difference between my FWD Skoda Octavia vRS and my old RWD BMW Z3. That's possibly something to do with the Z3 being a grand tourer rather than a true sports car, and its handling not being quite as sharp as a new 3- or 5-series.
For me personally it would be the Audi every time: an Audi is perhaps my natural habitat but the Scots half of me couldn't justify the £7,000 extra that a similarly-engined A4 Avant costs over the Octavia.
Last edited by: Avant on Fri 6 Apr 12 at 10:28
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For me it's not about speed as such, but much more about how much speed you can carry smoothly through bends provided you have sufficient sightlines to safely do so. If that makes sense... I know what I mean, I think !
:-)
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>> As a car enthusiast I must have RWD over FWD
I conclude that originated from watching too much Top/5th Gears :-)
FWDs are just as good for 99% of the day to day driving. For the rest 1% (= snow) they just win hands down ;-)
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>> >> As a car enthusiast I must have RWD over FWD
>>
>> I conclude that originated from watching too much Top/5th Gears :-)
>>
I conclude it was from my first cars being RWD with skinny tyres and a willingness to go sideways in the wet very easily. Great fun when you're 21 and younger but now as a (not so?) responsible middle aged father of two, I'm not so sure..... :)
Last edited by: a900ss on Fri 6 Apr 12 at 11:06
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>> For the rest and ideed majority of the time I much prefer the front to
>> steer and the back to push.
The Romans knew what they were doing. The horse was at the front of the chariot, and there where the reigns went to as well. The romans realised that controlled power understeer was faster than over steer.
If it was good enough for Judah Ben-Hur, its good enough for me.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 6 Apr 12 at 11:14
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>> >> For the rest and ideed majority of the time I much prefer the front
>> to steer and the back to push.
>>
>> The Romans knew what they were doing. The horse was at the front of the chariot, and there where the reigns went to as well. The romans realised that controlled power understeer was faster than over steer.
>> If it was good enough for Judah Ben-Hur, its good enough for me.
And don't forget motorcycles are almost 100% RWD.
There has been a handful of FWD ones would you beleive!
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Motorcycles_with_FWD_%28front_wheel_drive%29
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I really like this steam powered bike.
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dampf-Fahrrad_2.jpg#filelinks
Although having the boiler at the front may affect visibility!
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Ben-Hur?
Ok, would you push or pull a wheelbarrow?
Exactly !
Next question?
:-)
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>> The Romans knew what they were doing. The horse was at the front of the
>> chariot, and there where the reigns went to as well. The romans realised that controlled
>> power understeer was faster than over steer.
>> If it was good enough for Judah Ben-Hur, its good enough for me.
>>
Perhaps their preference for long straight roads was tacit acceptance that the combination of FWD and corners was best avoided ;-) Of course, winter tyres on the chariot might have helped...
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>> I prefer RWD.
I never thought much of it until I had to send back my lowly 3 Series and have a VW Passat now.
The BMW, despite its faults was much more refined on rough surfaces and that includes some of the dreadful A roads around here.
The VW lurches around and sometimes the back end feels like it is going to "lose it" at any time.
There is also an annoying effect, almost like a kangaroo bounce when a learner is lacking clutch control when the car goes over an undulating surface on a local dual c/w.
The VW is more economical (140bhp 2.0TDI bluemotion) compared to a 316es (d)
I am trying to order another 3 series!
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In all fairness, I should say that the Passat is a well equipped and totally competent car. Just that I have fallen for the RWD BMW.
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OK - I've had a long think over the weekend and am going to go for the 520d (subject to work sign off which is an altogether different story!)
It will be an auto SE and now just need to decide if I should go for a saloon with the professional navigation or the touring with no navigation.
Decisions, decisions.
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Go for the touring.
You can fix the problem of the touring having no navigation by adding an excellent after-market Satnav .
You CAN'T fix the problem that the saloon is not as practical as the touring. The day will come when you find that you need to carry something that would have fitted in the touring and won't in the saloon.
PS The touring looks nicer as well, IMHO.
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Agree with the londoner. Aftermarket sat navs are better, more flexible, and easier to update than OEM ones. And the tourer does look better than the saloon. And it will be more versatile.
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If you can have the SE with the sat nav in budget but could live without it because you like the benefits of the estate but the budget cannot stretch to sat nav on that then what about the saloon without sat nav?
For the occasions where the estate would have been handy like trips to the tip, use some of the savings and hire a van. BIK will be lower on the saloon compared to the equivalent estate because they cost more.
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>> For the occasions where the estate would have been handy like trips to the tip,
>> use some of the savings and hire a van.
Ah! If only life were so simple, rtj! :-)
You can't always plan when you are going to need the extra carrying capacity that you get with an estate/hatchback. Only last week I came across a bargain which I was able to snap up and carry away there and then. I was about 40-45 miles from home, and there was no way to organise a van, take time off to go and collect it etc.
This sort of thing happens to me about half a dozen times a year!
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>>
>> For the occasions where the estate would have been handy like trips to the tip,
>> use some of the savings and hire a van. BIK will be lower on the
>> saloon compared to the equivalent estate because they cost more.
>>
Or spec the electrically deployable tow-bar and buy a decent trailer like a Brenderup (OK so that was my tactic on my last company BMW) ?
On very limited experience (2 Golfs, 2 Audis and 2 BMWs) I'd add that I find modern BMW's to deliver far better real world fuel economy than cars from VAG (in my hands) although I'd accept that this might be due to the engine variants I've had experience of.
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And by a stroke of luck, I had a 250 mile drive of the E Class today!!!!
So that's all three of the German exec's then.
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Aw! C'mon, you can't just leave it at that!
How was it? Has it muddied the waters?
Or are you frightened of saying that you didn't like it incase you upset Humph? :-)
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I wouldn't be upset. After all, it's not really mine, it just comes with the job. Not complaining of course ! I like it very much, ideal for what I use a car for. I should think the 5 series is probably a more hard core driver's car which would bring it's own pleasures. Never driven a modern one so I couldn't really say. Long time ago, around 1989-ish I think, I had a then new 525 for a while. Nice car that was. Later, around 1997 probably, I had an A4 Avant 2.5 diesel. Quite nice but I never really got on with it's nose heavy understeer. Class act otherwise though.
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Has that what Humph has got???
It was awful, a bit like an unrefined Austin Allegro.
:-)
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In reality I was limited by the fact my boss was with me so no red lines and no quick cornering.
Car was manual and only the E200, so about 135 hp I think, 50 less than the BMW and obviously a fair bit slower.
Quick summary, if the Merc's were still on my list, I woud be choosing an E250 over the BMW.
For me it was the perfect compromise between the Audi A6 and the BMW. This version, the E200, was slow and noisy for a diesel when accelerating but a quicker E250 with an auto box woud be just dandy.
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That's exactly what I have, an E250 auto Sport estate. It is very nice.
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Don't think you'll be disappointed with your 5 though. Cracking cars by all accounts.
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After a smoky diesel legacy, most things will be better.
After driving any of the three Germans, my call feels like it was made about 20 years ago. Don't believe the hype that Legacy's are great cars. Terrible car in diesel form if you have any desire for low NVH.
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That's sort of disappointing, a Legacy always strikes me as something of a connoisseur's choice. Never driven one, but they just quietly ooze an aura of "dare to be different" somehow.
Ah well...
Enjoy your new one !
:-)
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The petrol ones are fine. Subaru diesels are complete dogs. You just can't use a boxer diesel engine in passenger cars.
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>> That's exactly what I have, an E250 auto Sport estate. It is very nice.
>>
I drove a C250CDI estate recently and would agree about the engine - it is indeed very nice. Smooth and more than quick enough for 99% of most driving.
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Might save me a packet, though.
}:---)
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Hadn't you better get stuck in and buy something shortly WDB if you're off on your hols soon? Still taken with the notion of an E / Merc ?
I really feel like sitting virtually on your left shoulder whispering " Mondeo Titanium X diesel estate " !!!!!
:-)
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And I'll sit on his right shoulder saying 'Skoda Superb Combi' - he either gets a newer one than he would a German taxi (true also of the Mondeo, in fairness) or saves money and can afford to visit his kith and kin in South Africa (a gnother gnu....)
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Fair point, Humph - the hols, not the Mondeo. The 'new car' idea has complicated the picture rather. A factory order, if we end up doing that, would not arrive in time, although I suppose there may be cars in stock that would do at the right price. And we've done two French holidays in the Verso, so a third wouldn't be a disaster - although it would be more fun in a nice big, smooth estate car.
And yes, Avant - I've been giving the Skoda some thought again, because if we might be able to afford a new E220 we could comfortably have a new Superb estate. I was reminded today in another context of the clever electric lumbar adjuster in the Elegance model - the best of its type in any car I've driven, Volvo included. I must remind Parkview of their six-month-old promise to find us a demo car without the Dopy Slow-witted Gearbox and see if we still fancy one.
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Lovely description of DSG! I suspect you were trying a diesel so equipped: I don't like the combination of diesel + automatic/DSG unless the engine is at least 2.5 litres. I think this is because with a manual you rev it slightly before moving off from rest, whereas an automatic starts from idling. Diesels don't produce much oomph under 1,500 - 2,000 rpm.
I think you live in the Henley / Marlow area, WdB - you could try the excellent Jewsons in Oxford who have supplied both my Skodas.
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Finally - it's done - car ordered.
520d SE Automatic Touring. Went very dark blue exterior and beige leather interior.
Lease company are initially saying Mid-June for delivery.
Thanks all and hope I haven't bored you too much.
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Congratulations a900ss!
I'm sure that you have made exactly the right decision. The right car AND the right colour scheme IMHO.
No, you haven't bored us at all. I still hate you though because I am insanely jealous! :-)
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Well the 6 and a half weeks of waiting are over and the car is finally here.
Apologies to all with my dithering on car/colour/etc....
Photos are here if interested:
tiny.cc/3j59ew
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Nice car, nice colour. I hope you enjoy it.
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Looks like a car which should look after you for the next 3 or 4 years. Very nice.
Saw the new (F30 ?) 3 touring on TV this morning at its launch here in Germany. The shape, especially the bonnet line doesn't look quite so severe in this model.
Last edited by: gmac on Sat 2 Jun 12 at 18:06
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The looks have been softening (for the better) since they took Bangles pens away from him.
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Lovely looking motor that. Hope you're very happy with it. Get some dark mats for it ?
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The one thing I don't like about BMWs is that high tunnel/centre consol. Its ok for a two seater sports car, but for a family estate its cliched, claustrophobic and space stealing.
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I agree Z. But I never intend to sit in the back so I don't really care ! :-)
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Re-read my post and think it came across wrong. The saloon F30 looks like Joe Bugner at the front but the Touring doesn't look so erm... Roman. Obviously an illusion as they are probably the same car back to the B post.
Last edited by: gmac on Sat 2 Jun 12 at 19:28
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Cancel the question marks - you definitely need mats for it - dark ! Lovely sharp looking motor though. Superb. If Carlsberg made cars....
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Lovely car A!
Classic colour combo of dark exterior and light interior, too.
Not the slightest bit envious, though!. . . . . OK, maybe a bit . . . . . Oh alright then, a lot! :-)
Last edited by: Londoner on Sat 2 Jun 12 at 20:39
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Lovely car.
So, I'm considering my options if I repatriate....
I am reconciled to a 4 pot BMW for BIK tax reasons (although the new 330d looks tempting), I will have to eat my tax-dodger words.
Can I ask 2 rather prosaic questions - without the enhanced interior lighting - what's 'missing' ? I only ask because on an Audi you lose the glovebox light if you don't pay extra ?
Secondly, the reduced function air-con/climate on the 520d - what's missing compared with higher models ?
Both are cheap options, but since I'm looking to order soon and I can't go into a UK dealer I'd appreciate some help.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Mon 4 Jun 12 at 04:47
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www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/digitalbrochurepageturner/
digital brochure should have all the info you need, has all the specs in it
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 4 Jun 12 at 09:44
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If you go to the "build your car" thingy - it tells you in there - I tried to cut and paste the info box but it won't let me.
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Nice car the BMW.One for the auto bahn.Can't say I'm jealous,you should get a decent car for that money.>:)
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Lovely looking car - I too am openly jealous - it makes my 1996 Legacy estate look a bit leggy.
Enjoy.
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>> Lovely car.
>>
>> So, I'm considering my options if I repatriate....
>>
>> I am reconciled to a 4 pot BMW for BIK tax reasons (although the new
>> 330d looks tempting), I will have to eat my tax-dodger words.
>>
>> Can I ask 2 rather prosaic questions - without the enhanced interior lighting - what's
>> 'missing' ? I only ask because on an Audi you lose the glovebox light if
>> you don't pay extra ?
>>
>> Secondly, the reduced function air-con/climate on the 520d - what's missing compared with higher models
>> ?
>>
>> Both are cheap options, but since I'm looking to order soon and I can't go
>> into a UK dealer I'd appreciate some help.
>>
>>
>>
What I think you would miss is the following:
Interior lighting in door trims when driving at night and exterior lighting from the door handles. You still get puddle lights and lighting in front footwells (not sure about back).
In higher spec models you can control the rear heating, it can only be the same as what has been set at the front.
PS - first night drive of car on Sunday morning en route to ferry. Headlights are poor but that may be because my Lecacy had xenon headlights.
Last edited by: a900ss on Mon 4 Jun 12 at 16:19
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>> PS - first night drive of car on Sunday morning en route to ferry. Headlights
>> are poor but that may be because my Lecacy had xenon headlights.
Get some decent bulbs like Philips Xtremes.
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OK - I'm 1 month and 3,000 miles into the 520d experience and will write a full review at the weekend.
A one sentence summary would be: an amazingly relaxing car that eats up miles economically however at night it's hard to see the road due to poor headlights.
If you have any questions about the car, let me know and I'll incorporate it into my review.
Thanks all.
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Possible to upgrade the bulbs?
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>> Possible to upgrade the bulbs?
>>
Philips Xtremes already purchased just not yet fitted as you need to change them via the front wheel arches!!!!
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Or get an E....( oops sorry ) erm...alternative, large German estate car next time...
:-)
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>> Or get an E....( oops sorry ) erm...alternative, large German estate car next time...
>>
>> :-)
>>
You know that was my first choice but unfortunately my company has removed them from the list due to reliability (and I've also heard that thy are considered a bit flash but that could just be gossip). Fairly sure an E250 would eat the 520d for breakfast in a drag race.
Last edited by: a900ss on Thu 28 Jun 12 at 21:53
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Flash? Nooooo, I think you mean "sophisticated" don't you?!
:-))
Yeah, ok, it's a bit flash...
BMW is definitely prettier.
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"Or get an E....( oops....."
So that's what Humph drives.....a Jowett Bradford. Good choice - you can get a lot of shoes in there.
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Speaking of shoes. Been in Italy this week for a day or three. hired a wee Panda which was fine. Anyway, it was really hot there and I took my socks off when they became a health hazard and just wore my loafers without. Shoved the rancid socks under the seat in the Fiat, fully intending to retrieve them when I handed it back.
Sort of forgot...
Hope they valet the car properly before some other person hires it !
:-)
Anyway, back to beemers with dodgy lights eh?
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>> If you have any questions about the car, let me know and I'll incorporate it into my review.
Thanks, it was a good idea to invite questions. :-) I have a few if you don't mind...
1) Does the car have standard suspension, or is it fitted with Variable Damper Control? ("What Car?" seems to think that this option is a really a necessity on a 5-series)
If it has VDC, what settings do you use and how do they affect the ride/handling mix of the car?
2) What is it like to park in a standard parking space in, say, an out-of-town retail park?
3) What have you changed your mind about, from the first impressions of the test drive?
4) Are there any options that you think are necessary/superfluous? (Looks like upgraded lights will be one of them!)
Thanks in advance.
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After having the Mazda6 Sport with Xenons as standard I would not want to go back to non-Xenon lights. Due to cost I did consider it but the demo car I had had them and they seemed even better than on the Mazda. But being bi-xenon and with bendy lighting (and static cornering) they should have been better.
I probably sound a bit crazy but to decide finally I drove the two cars back to back so to speak for a distance on the same very dark winding road (a bit of the Snake Pass). Not quite back to back because I had to get back to the other car to compare them!
So I'd hope I can afford bi-xenons (or whatever betters them) on the next car. I have a bit of time before that so look forward to the review. I sat in a 520d SE in the dealers before I could even start the process of ordering a new car and it was very nice. And then the price shot up when I was able to order/consider by about £80/month on our lease scheme!
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I did the same with my 330d, the test car had Xenons and they were great but I always lease for the minimum term of 2 years and our leasing company amortises options over this period and attributes them no residual value so I avoid them.
I-too wanted to change the bulbs and I waited, my advice is to do it now whilst the wheel-arch access covers are still relatively clean....
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Getting rapidly disillusioned with my F30 320d. It is one fault off the Scenic now for being the most unreliable car I've ever had, in terms of number of issues in a given time period.
I had the episode with the FEM body control module going foobar and taking out the wipers and start/stop system a month or two ago. Now I have an intermittent "Headlamp Vertical Beam Check" fault on the iDrive screen on startup, the offside front suspension is getting noisy over sharp bumps, and there's a whine from the turbo for the first few miles after a cold start which is getting louder. The car hasn't yet done 6,000 miles.
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>> . . .and there's a whine from the turbo for the first few miles after a cold start which is getting louder.
Does it sound a bit like a police car siren in the distance would make?
If so, the vanes on the turbo are lightly brushing the outer casing due to wear in the bearings.
This particular problem can't be fixed in situ - it will need a complete new turbo.
Hopefully you do NOT have this problem, however.
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>> >> . . .and there's a whine from the turbo for the first few miles
>> after a cold start which is getting louder.
>> Does it sound a bit like a police car siren in the distance would make?
Yes, that's exactly what it sounds like.
Wear? It's done less than 6000 miles. :-(
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Some turbos do whine, two of my VW ones were whiners, not loud but audible. Whined for many a mile without problem. Bit like the wife really.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 29 Jun 12 at 12:49
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>> Getting rapidly disillusioned with my F30 320d. It is one fault off the Scenic now
>> for being the most unreliable car I've ever had, in terms of number of issues
>> in a given time period.
>>
Welcome to modern cars.
I have in the past stated how as more electronics get fitted, the more unreliable cars become - and been slated for it...
Well... this is the future.
At least in the old days cars could be repaired quickly and cheaply when things went wrong - today hours are spent trying to find the cause, followed by replacement of expensive units.
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>>
>> At least in the old days cars could be repaired quickly and cheaply when things
>> went wrong - today hours are spent trying to find the cause, followed by replacement
>> of expensive units.
>>
>>
Part of this has to be lack of training/time for the techs. I took my car in to an indie (where I bought the car) on Monday complaining the bluetooth module was stuffed. It took 4 days and visits to two main dealers before they decided I was right and finally ordered a new one. Four days wasted IMHO. It took me all of 20 mins to figure the same thing out.
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The ECU for my brother's X3 was not available in the UK - they had to order one in from the factory in the USA.... and now it needs another replacement unit. Again from America.
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>> Anyway, back to beemers with dodgy lights eh?
>>
Anyone else notice the irony in a Beamer having difficulty projecting light ?
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 29 Jun 12 at 13:28
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Best not paint the headlights orange then, they would refuse to come on.
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My brother has an X3. The ECU that controls the adaptive dampers has failed. This is the second time and the car is about 6 months old. Quality control?
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>> My brother has an X3. The ECU that controls the adaptive dampers has failed. This
>> is the second time and the car is about 6 months old. Quality control?
My wife's cousin was a BMW Technician until last year (when he defected to Skoda). He doesn't have much time for any BMW built after about 2006. "Highly strung, heinously complex, patchy quality control, and far too many common, recurring problems." His words not mine.
I love the F30 as a car. It's good to drive, it's quick, it's stupidly economical and it's comfortable. But I shouldn't be having problems like this at this age and mileage with any car, let alone one that gives you little change out of £30k
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>> "Highly strung, heinously
>> complex, patchy quality control, and far too many common, recurring problems." His words not mine.
I am pretty sure thats not confined to BMW.
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Crossed fingers I get one of the 5s for my Olympic duties then - more driver training in Sunday.
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Slightly off topic but I took one of our 530d's out today. 144k miles on a 58 plate. Horrendously baggy on it's suspension. A similar mileage Focus deals with bumpy bends better than the big beemer.
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>> Slightly off topic but I took one of our 530d's out today. 144k miles on
>> a 58 plate. Horrendously baggy on it's suspension. A similar mileage Focus deals with bumpy
>> bends better than the big beemer.
Part of the reason that big cars are more expensive to run. 5 series are heavy cars and consequently hard on their suspension. You'd want to be fitting replacement dampers well before that mileage.
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Hi Z. Getting m'uniform on 9 July, at Old Trafford. Duties start 18th JUly - got to make my desk a bit tidier before I finish, but other than that I am all set. Have you got yours yet?
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"My wife's cousin was a BMW Technician until last year (when he defected to Skoda). He doesn't have much time for any BMW built after about 2006. "Highly strung, heinously complex, patchy quality control, and far too many common, recurring problems." His words not mine."
Next time you see him, DP, you might like to ask him what he thinks about Skodas. You'd imagine it would be the same as he thinks for mechanically identical VWs and Audis - yet Skodas consistently do better in the ownership surveys than their 'siblings'. My two Octavia vRSs have been impeccable (so far, of course, in the case of the current one).
No doubt in the process of time a900ss and RP will be able to tell us whether you have been unlucky or quality is actually slipping. You've actually had more problems with your new 320d than I have in four years and 13,000 miles with a Y-registered Z3.
Finally I'm curious as to why a 520 should have poor headlights, given the sort of driving that BMWs are designed for and in other respects do so well. Again, is that typical of other modern BMWs?
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Avant, I wonder if expectation is also a factor. Pay less for a car and some owners will accept some issues. Pay more and you'd not? Just a thought.
But if quality was down to just marque then we'd have to accept similar quality controls for an £8k VW up! and a £50+k Toureg.
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Good point. The German marques sell on perceived quality, and hold their value for the same reason - so people expect that quality to include reliability, perhaps more so than for, say, a Skoda which some people buy as workhorses and find them unexpectedly good to drive.
That said, I think you have a right to expect a new car not to go wrong in the way that DP's has, whether you pay £8k or £50k. The £8k car has of course fewer electronic gizmos to go wrong, so perhaps has a better chance of being reliable.
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BMW - My test drive of a BMW 520d Auto - sooty123
