I'm dealing with a dodgy South American Mechanic. Clearly demented since he's about 40 and he can't even speak english!
However, I need him to attack the rear diff, to do which he has to remove the rear hubs.
To take off a hub, you need to slacken off the handbrake.
This particular genius is telling me that he can't remember why, but he is sure that the computer will have to be reset afterwards, and so because of that he won't take the hub off. I've told him to do it and sod the consequences, but he just goes all latino on me and it doesn't get done.
It does not have an electonic handbrake. In fact, so far as I can see, it has no electronics to the rear hubs or diff at all.
Does anyone have any clue what he might be talking about? And don't say take it to a main dealer, it just doesn't work that way, certainly not ouside the city.
Any thoughts, even wild random ones, very welcome. Because right now the damn thing is broken down in the middle of nowhere and the only bloke within 50 miles with a spanner and a hammer is not helping matters.
p.s. its not a Landcruiser, its a 4Runner, but its almost the same thing, and I have no idea what the engine size is other than its petrol and big.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 27 Oct 12 at 04:20
|
You haven't said why it needs attention and the answers will vary until we know, rear diff seized? or does the car move but with no drive indicating a wrecked diff or broken half shaft?
If the car is capable of rolling will it drive if you select 4WD which effectively now means FWD only...if it does it might be prudent to remove the rear propshaft in case of any sudden diff failure, and make sure theres some oil in the diff to get you somewhere more compliant.
Toyota 4x4s are usually made to be fixed in the field, so like you i doubt there are any electronics in the rear axle area, save maybe an ABS sensor on the brakes...you might find a solenoid shift on the front diff, but i doubt that is computer connected either.
However this is all blind assumption because i doubt the model is even available here.
|
There is a loud, speed related whine coming from the rear diff. Whilsy everything still works, the noise is sufficiently loud that I really don't want to drive further for fear of causing more substantial damage.
As far as I can see the hubs need removing, the prop dropping and then the axle/diff assembly dropped. There's other stuff like brakes and suspension that need to be removed as well, obviously.
And I can see no electronics involved with any of it.
So i see no reason it cannot all just be pulled apart and cannot for the life of me think what he believes the computer would need resetting for.
|
There is a chance it has ABS sensors which might need a computer reset if power on with them disconnected - any wires at all to the rear hubs?? I assume its pure mechanical 4wd? (ie mechanical selection, transfer boxes etc) any wires into the various drive train bits?
Now call me naive or misguided, I always thought a wodge of folded pesos thrust into a grubby mit would get most anything done, albiet accompanied by the shoulder shrug and arm waving of the "I shouldnt really, crazy gringo, more Peso's? well ok then" type.
|
Will check the ABS thing.
It is purely mechanical.
As for the pesos gets you anything, that is true unless they don't want to do it. They'll still take your money but somehow the job won't get done. And if anything goes wrong, e.g. front bumper falls off, then you'll get a shrug and reminded that they told you there would be a problem, so it is not their fault.
And whether the job is not started, started but not finished, something completely unrelated happens, or they just can't be bothered, the reason will be problems with the computer which they warned you about, even when it is provably not.
So before one starts, one has to make sure that every conceivable excuse has been exhausted. Then there is time for the peso treatment.
|
In that case i suggest checking the diff oil level, assuming its OK and not contaminated by water/muck, axle breather does let water in if submerged long enough unless blocked for wading purposes, i wonder if this has happened.
If contaminated you could change the oil anyway and see if that quietens it.
Jacking up and turning the wheels by hand, you should be able to feel if a bearing is failing, at least get a better idea, after checking oil, whether driving to someone more cooperative is a possibility.
If its a live axle and i'm none too sure on this model then removing the rear drums and possibly brake shoes should expose the relevent hub bolts and it should be simplicity itself to slide out the half shafts, doubt much suspension will need touching, Toyota 4x4s are usually simple beasts to work on.
Out of interest is this vehicle still basically a Hilux but with a softly coil sprung rear axle instead of cart springs and an estate car shell bolted to the similar chassis?
|
>>Out of interest is this vehicle still basically a Hilux but with a softly coil sprung rear axle instead of cart springs
I don't know, but I doubt it as its quite substantially bigger than a HiLux. Its also not particularily related (in appearance) to the old 4Runner pick-up which you sometimes see in Europe.
However, from a technology point of view, I should think its closer to a HiLux than a Landcruiser.
toyota.cl/modelos/4runner
|
Depending upon how the axle is laid out, there may not be much he can do to the diff without some special tools.
In particular, I'm thinking about whether the diff and pinion housing comes out of the front of the axle complete, or whether the crown wheel comes out of the back, leaving the pinion in the axle.
I suspect the computer excuse being given is not the truth, but, he thinks you'll buy it, and take the car elsewhere.
|
>>he thinks you'll buy it, and take the car elsewhere
He doesn't care really, he just doesn't wnat to do it. There is no concept of repeat custom.
However, what there is here is an abundance of spare parts from the carnage on the highways. Consequently taking it apart and sticking a different diff on is quite a practical approach.
To sumamrise, we can none of us think of anything computer related which would be an issue in the removal for the diff?
In which case, as its election day here tomorrow, then battle will be resumed on Monday. I'll let you know.
Thank you all for your thoughts.
|
If there's no electric handbrake; no electric actuation of the rear brakes, then, I agree, it's difficult to see what could need any computer intervention.
While there may be ABS sensors, they don't generally need to be reset by computer. At worst, they need re-shimming to set the gap between the sensor tip and the toothed wheel.
>>However, what there is here is an abundance of spare parts from the carnage on the highways.
I'm sure you don't need me to say this, but, do check that you're replacing like with like - in particular that the gear ratio of the "new" one matches the old one.
|
>>I'm sure you don't need me to say this.....
mmmm, well, just as well you did say it. I might have stopped thinking at the point I believed it was from a similar vehicle.
Thank you.
|
ISTR something about 'preload' with diffs and pictures in Haynes of tooth wear.
Does it not apply to modern stuff?
I did fit a new planet wheel carrier in a '70s Vitesse that I managed to break. The oil that came out had a very metallic, glinty effect. I sold it soon after.
|
>>Does it not apply to modern stuff?
That's partially what I was getting at with my question about the diff coming out of the front or back of the axle housing.
If it comes out of the front, it's a simple unbolt the old one, remove and replace job - the preload of the pinion and crown wheel, and the backlash between them remain undisturbed.
However, if the axle is a Salisbury type, and the crown wheel comes out of the back of the axle housing, you can't do anything without disturbing these settings - and you also need to "spread" the axle to release the preload on the crown wheel - pita - OR, replace the entire axle.
I'm assuming here that the axle is a beam axle - it's all much simpler if the rear suspension is independent, and the diff housing bolts to the body via some rubber mountings.
|
|
l will go and look tomorrow, and if neccessary take pictures.
|
This item;
251161779410
on Ebay.co.uk shows a Ford axle where the crown wheel comes out of the back - you can see that the pinion housing is integral with the axle tubes.
whereas, item
281009407636
shows a more conventional axle, where the crown wheel and pinion assembly can be withdrawn from the front of the axle, and replaced as a unit.
Last edited by: Number_Cruncher on Sun 28 Oct 12 at 01:08
|
This is not the correct item. Its too old, it has hubs not discs, the suspension is different as are most of the brackets.
However, it is more or less what the diff looks like;
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hinterachse-Toyota-4-Runner-3-0-92-KW-125-PS-ABS-95-Diesel-rear-axle-/250873499146?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item3a6939ce0a
I shall take a picture of mine tomorrow. Can I email it to you? What is normal practice?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 28 Oct 12 at 01:47
|
And this is a car from an advert in the US
www.recycler.com/details/17671386/2007-toyota-4runner-galactic-gray-mica
Mine is 2007, as the one in the ad. Mine has a V6 Petrol engine. Auto box.
|
Sent some pictures by e-mail, which pretty much show as similar to the axle/diff from e-bay I posted above.
The noise is a loud drone. Its certainly not a whine or graunch. It is certainly coming from the diff.
What's the recommended path from here? I will be in charge, but mechanic will do the work if I am there and at least pretending to participate.
Is there anything more complex here than unbolting and dropping the prop shaft, unbolting the housing from the front and then withdrawing it? Do I need to remove hubs and therefore withdraw halfshafts?
Should I then look to replace bearings or cogs, or simply replace the entire thing?
Clearly if the diff can be repaired without moving the diff housing, its actually not that big a job. Aailability of diffs & bits is good, provided one does not require an import receipt, a warranty, or pretty much anything else, actually.
|
>> The noise is a loud drone. Its certainly not a whine or graunch. It is certainly coming from the diff.
A drone?
Sounds more like a bearing than the diff itself.
How are you sure its coming from the diff, and not a wheel bearing?
|
"sure" is a pretty strong word.
However, it seems from listening out of either rear window, and out of the hatch, especially when passing a wall, that the noise is coming from the rear centre of the vehicle rather than one side or another.
It does, though, sound like a bearing drone.
Also, nothing can be heard or felt while turning the wheels manually when jacked up. As I write this, it occurs that that noise hunting might be better up on blocks and in drive at some speed.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 28 Oct 12 at 18:55
|
>> it occurs that that noise hunting might be better up on blocks and in drive at some speed.
Yes, that's the sort of test I would do before stripping anything down - listening with a stethoscope is a good way to pinpoint the bearing at fault. There will be four bearings within the central diff housing, and, I imagine, a fairly large double row bearing behind each hub (I would be surprised to find a pair of taper roller bearings in the hubs, but, ...)
If it's the diff - To remove the diff out of the front of the axle, you'll first need to withdraw the half shafts. You probably won't need to take them right out, just a few inches to disengage from the splines - this may save some brake disassembly.
|
Put it up on lift/ stands and ran it in gear at some speed. The noise was pretty loud from inside the car, it was positively scary from underneath!
It turned out to be the bearing on the right hand half-shaft at the differential end. And the half-shaft itself seems to be out of true. Although who knows which caused what.
It all ultimately came out of the car easily with no electronics to be seen.
I was going to replace the entire diff itself, but given the risk of getting a different ratio and not really seeing how I could easily tell the difference, then the current one is being stripped down and the bearings replaced, not just the obvious worn out one.
The half shaft, which does indeed seem out of true, and since a "spare" one is available at minimal cost, may as well get that done. Especially since it comes with a hub, which I think is as well given that the existing one has taken a beating.
And the dampers, thanks NC, which aren't that bad but given its already been taken apart, then might as well get them as well since they need doing really.
Also having the brakes done as the right back at least was seriously binding.
Thanks for all your help and advice. Really, thanks very much.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 2 Nov 12 at 14:26
|
|
And get that engine oil changed, it must be well overdue now ;-)
|
Toyota Land Cruiser LC - 4x4 4Runner 2007 - -
