Technical Car/Motor Issues > Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue
Thread Author: hawkeye Replies: 18
View Threaded 

New Sun 9 May 10 19:10 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - hawkeye
During the week I had the air con recharged for Mrs H at Kwik Fit Northallerton. The print out reported taking 150g refrigerant out and putting 600g back in with no leaks detected. The manager said that the temperature drop on testing was satisfactory. The air seemed cold on the way back home.

At the weekend Mrs H reported that she couldn't tell that it was getting cold. On checking I found that the radiator cooling fan wasn't spinning, which it should when the air con is switched on. During my checking of fuses and looking for corroded contacts, the fan started up but spun very slowly and then stopped. I found that the nearby relay was energised and 12v seemed to be on its way to the fat fan wires.

Anyone care to speculate if I am just looking at a knackered fan motor or should I be looking somewhere else as well. The manual doesn't mention a fuse for the cooling fan; is one hidden away somewhere?

TIA.

Hawkeye.
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Sun 9 May 10 21:11 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - carmalade
If I recall this car has a 2-speed fan system(similar to Peugeot 206).In which case the fan should run at the slow speed with a/c switched on.However this will only affect the a/c performance while the car is stationary.When on the move ,there is usually enough airflow over the condenser rad to keep it cool.If there is a live and earth supply to the motor and it does not rotate,then then this indicates that the motor is faulty.There is usually a mega fuse located below the engine bay fuse box.The fuse/relay plate has to be lifted up for access.hth
Reply to this message | Report message
      1  
New Mon 10 May 10 09:16 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - Fenlander
We looked for a fuse on our 2006 C3 the other day and there isn't one mentioned in the book.... dealer only hidden perhaps?? Turns out our aircon hasn't worked since we bought the car in Dec and only now is it noticeable.

Are you sure it's the fan not working that's making the aircon u/s? Could it be the aircon is u/s elsewhere hence not bringing the fan on??

If you have the engine running with the bonnet up look down at the aircon pump on the front of the aux drivebelt. Get someone to switch the aircon on and see if the centre of the pulley starts to drive the pump. On ours it doesn't which is a sign of low gas.

Yours was really low on gas... I wonder if there is a leak somewhere and it's gone again?
Reply to this message | Report message
      1  
New Mon 10 May 10 11:38 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - hawkeye
Thanks for your replies.

Daft as it sounds haven't had a spare pair of hands to look at the compressor spin (or not).

The KF machine does a vacuum test for 30 mins to test for leaks but I wonder if it might be a seal that vacuum holds in place but pressure blows.

The fact that the fan started seems to rule out a fuse.

I've been buried in other fora for an hour trying to make sense of the symptoms and air con in general.

I'm worried that if I apply battery volts to the fan I may back feed some unwelcome power to an ECU somewhere and cause more problems.

Fuses; the handbook calls Fuse 8 under the bonnet "Engine Control Relay" but the Haynes manual says this is the cooling fan supply. HTH. Mine is intact. It would be wouldn't it?
Last edited by: hawkeye on Mon 10 May 10 at 11:41
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Mon 10 May 10 12:18 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - Fenlander
H I think you need to get the second pair of hands before you worry further as if the compressor isn't spinning when the a/c button is in and light on then low gas is the first port of call. So back to KF and see what they say.

As you mention firing voltages at random into the C3 electrics could result in real problems with all the ECU stuff.
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Mon 10 May 10 12:25 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - Fenlander
H have you seen this thread?

www.citroen-owners-club.co.uk/citroen/index.php?s=e1e4fe634266baafb440ab18794bfa6c&showtopic=3323&mode=linear

Lots of clues in there for possible issues.
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Mon 10 May 10 20:44 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - hawkeye
Update.

The compressor clutch is working.There is a clonk as it engages and the pulley is seen to be spinning but I don't know for how long. That's encouraging as I know the compressor won't engage if there is no pressure.

I have disconnected all the wires to the fan, pulled the battery +ve terminal and applied 12v across the two fan motor big feed wires. Nothing. But Haynes shows the fan schematic as having a diode in the unit so I guess I would have to apply a voltage to one of the 3 thin wires that also go into the fan motor to get it to turn.

Thanks for the link F but much of the writing is about climate and I've got simple air con and I'm not convinced it's leaking - yet - on the grounds that the compressor turns.
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Mon 10 May 10 22:39 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - carmalade
I would be extremely carefull about putting 12v to any of the thin wires.These are signal wires from the engine control unit to operate the electronic fan speed regulator of the cooling fan motor.An incorrect aplication of voltage may seriously damage the engine ecu.As this fan motor is electronically controlled,then it will only operate on demand and request from the from temp and pressure signals.hth
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Wed 12 May 10 12:25 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - percy
Regarding French cooling fan electronics. I'm sure I read a thread on a site that was going before car4play started that talked of repairs to the control transistors in the fan electronics. It seemed relatively straighforward especially if you had a mate with a soldering iron..... Maybe VxFan can help here? He is a whiz at searches.
You may need the fan to keep the engine cool if we get a 'bbq summer'!
Good luck
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Wed 12 May 10 12:27 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - VxFan
>> Maybe VxFan can help here? He is a whiz at searches.

If it was mentioned on 'the other site' then the forum search there isn't very good anymore.
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Wed 12 May 10 12:42 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - percy
Thanks VxFan, perhaps www.frenchcarforum.co.uk might help.
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Wed 12 May 10 13:04 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - Focusless
If you do a forum search on HJ of the technical section <1 year for keyword 'transistor', you get a number of results, some of which are for Citroens eg.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=82789
Last edited by: Focus on Wed 12 May 10 at 13:04
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Wed 12 May 10 13:27 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - VxFan
>> Thanks VxFan, perhaps www.frenchcarforum.co.uk might help.

As you've narrowed it down to a particular website, you might be able to google it:-

Type ("transistor" site:www.frenchcarforum.co.uk) into google - without the brackets, or just click the following link

tinyurl.com/23cvcqq
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Wed 12 May 10 14:18 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - percy
Thanks to Focus and VxFan for your searches. Very similar to the thread I remember reading.
My mistake though as the control unit repair mentioned is for heater blower and not rad cooling fan so apologies for time wasted.
Any further news Hawkeye?
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Wed 12 May 10 15:51 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - hawkeye
Thanks for your interest all. Yes it's the radiator cooling fan not the heater blower that is holding my attention.

>> Any further news Hawkeye?
>>

No; haven't seen the car for a day or two as Mrs H's shifts and my work haven't coincided.

Can't think why I didn't remember this but the fan has been replaced once already. Just inside or just outside warranty and it came back with an extra relay in the wiring that hadn't been there before cable-tied to a nearby pipe. The relay clicks when I expect it to and a substitute relay does the same.
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Thu 27 May 10 21:54 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - hawkeye
Update; went for a run in the car on Saturday. If the air con is switched on while the car is moving you get a waft of cold air that lasts for about 2 mins then the air warms up to ambient again. The compressor engages with a click as usual. The radiator fan runs now when stationary. Something's changed, but what?
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Thu 27 May 10 22:38 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - carmalade
I would hazard a guess that the some gas has been lost .Take it back to KF and get them to check the quantity.Either that or there wasn't enough in it to start with.hth
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Thu 3 Jun 10 22:55 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - hawkeye
Update; Mrs H reports that the air con is back to normal. Son backs this up saying it ran for 2 journeys of 30 mins each.

Clearly Mrs H has a self-healing car. Brilliant. Thanks all for your interest.

Wouldn't mind knowing how it does it though ...
Last edited by: hawkeye on Thu 3 Jun 10 at 22:55
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Fri 4 Jun 10 12:14 
 Citroen C3 - 02 1.4 Air con issue - Redviper
my experience of French cars, is just that abilty to "self heal"

SWMBO's C4 Passenger window would not operate using the drivers door control panel this went on for days, and then all of a sudden it "self healed" and all is well and its been faultless ever since
Reply to this message | Report message
       
Latest Forum Posts