Under the med....
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16558910
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Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 18 Jan 12 at 00:43
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I wonder whether they will try to re-float it or cut it up in situ. In any event it is going to take time and money. Will the owners pay or are their insurers going take a big hit? Good to see that there were not many casualties, out of 4000+ on board.
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There are fifty people missing I think. Not a good day. Must have been a frightening experience.
And the size of the hole suggests rocks were hit at some speed.
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>> There are fifty people missing I think. Not a good day. Must have been a
>> frightening experience.
>>
>> And the size of the hole suggests rocks were hit at some speed.
>>
The momentum of a ship that size does the damage even at slow speeds.
I was in a small cruise ship (total about 1,000 souls) a couple of years ago when the emergency alarm sounded at about 7am. We were at our muster station dressed and with life jackets within 3 minutes, before the crew or anyone else. It turned out to be one of the galley smoke alarms (toaster).
In a ship it is critical to get yourself safe fast. Smoke will kill you as will panic. When we returned to our cabin after the stand down there were still people emerging bleary eyed asking what was going on. They would become the missing and dead in a real emergency.
Know your escape routes and where safety is. I may have an advantage there. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 14 Jan 12 at 13:35
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>>> They would become the missing and dead in a real emergency.
Quite a sobering thought really.
Pays to think these thing through.
I stay in hotels a lot and make a point of walking to the fire exits on my floor so I know where they are.
I know some people won't stay above the 5th floor as thats the hight of emergency ladders.
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>> Pays to think these thing through.
>>
>> I stay in hotels a lot and make a point of walking to the fire
>> exits on my floor so I know where they are.
It certainly does, it only takes getting it wrong once to kill you. I do the same in hotels. I have had the experience of fighting fires both at sea and ashore, the golden rule is get out FAST. Then asses the situation from somewhere safe.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 14 Jan 12 at 13:50
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>> >> Pays to think these thing through.
>> >>
>> >> I stay in hotels a lot and make a point of walking to the
>> fire
>> >> exits on my floor so I know where they are.
>>
>> It certainly does, it only takes getting it wrong once to kill you. I do
>> the same in hotels. I have had the experience of fighting fires both at sea
>> and ashore, the golden rule is get out FAST. Then asses the situation from somewhere
>> safe.
>>
I stayed in a Hotel near Greenwich Connecticut. It was evacuated when I was there due to a fire which killed 4 people..
I always look for fire exits first..
And on boats, lifebelts/boats and exits... And on planes sit near the wings..
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Aren't wings usually full of fuel, and don't they often just snap off on impact?!
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>>I stay in hotels a lot and make a point of walking to the fire exits on my floor so I know where they are.
>>
The advice I got was to, on arrival, count the number of doors between your room and the exit as you might be crawling under smoke to the exit.
Keep your door key on your bedside table and take it with you on exit as you just might need to get back in your room.
I had to get out of an Hotel in Washington in the middle of my first night.
It was a false alarm but not a nice experence to get chucked out a back door with useless staff not controlling the situation.
I make a point of checking out fire notices etc ( if they exist) and if not up to a decent standard then I ensure it is reported to high management.
( One 5 star Hotel I stayed in in Singapore had fancy brass fire notices with tiny script that you could only read at a certain angle. )
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>> Must have been a frightening experience.
As a strong swimmer, I'm always a bit surprised at how scary the water looks when looking over a ship's rail.
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>> I wonder whether they will try to re-float it or cut it up in situ.
SMIT will be on their way, it looks like a salvage job if they have sufficient sea room to get it upright again.
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Tiny Italian town seems to have coped very well. Emergency tents were up in the car park next to the port.
Lifeboats neatly parked in the harbor.
Schools, churches and government offices opened up to give the survivors somewhere to stay!
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Hear hear Zippy, a great response by a small island community. I am trying to work out why it had a huge gash in the port side of the hull but tipped over to starboard. Also it was presumably, heading North-West with the mainland on its right, what did it hit that was on its left? The enquiry will reveal all in the fullness of time.
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>> Also it was presumably, heading North-West with the mainland on
>> its right, what did it hit that was on its left? >>
:-) It doesn't work like that. Submerged rocks are not necessarily on the same side as the land you can see.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 14 Jan 12 at 14:25
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I follow that. What I meant, I suppose, is what was the vessel doing so close to the shore as to hit a submerged object (charted or not) on the non landward side.
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There are thousands of deep narrow channels both close inshore and out of sight of land with shallow water and rocks on both sides. Try a cruise of the Norwegian fiords for close inshore.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 14 Jan 12 at 14:40
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I know what can go wrong, but have a "Baltic capitals" cruise booked for the summer.
So cruising is not that bad, unless you pick a ship full of Americans. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 14 Jan 12 at 15:16
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Wow!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16560050
Look at one of those pictures! thats a big big deep hole, its still got a large chunk of the rock wedged in it and broken off.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 14 Jan 12 at 16:48
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3 dead. 70 still missing. I do hope that is an over estimate!
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Just said on the news that the passenger list wasn't up to date. The whole disaster seems like a metaphor for Italy.
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i am currently on holiday, and a chap in my hotel has been on the phone with his office several times today. He works in specialised shipping insurance and told me it could well be a total write off. A sad day all round.
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Electrical failure claimed.. despite multiple backup systems. NO SOS given. No response when ship hit rocks. Ship off course.
I wonder what the Captain was doing? (Hint: they had just left port I believe)
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This from the BBC's Transport correspondent -
'Modern ships tend to use electrical generators to drive the engines, so a power cut can leave the captain unable to steer away from danger.'
What ?
I'm guessing he was trying to say that the rudders were electrically controlled/powered ?
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>> I'm guessing he was trying to say that the rudders were electrically controlled/powered ?
But rudders are no use if the propellers aren't turning - is that what he meant?
EDIT: well they are if it's still moving relative to the water, but once it's stopped they aren't
Last edited by: Focus on Sat 14 Jan 12 at 17:59
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>> This from the BBC's Transport correspondent -
>>
>> 'Modern ships tend to use electrical generators to drive the engines, so a power cut
>> can leave the captain unable to steer away from danger.'
>>
>> What ?
>>
>> I'm guessing he was trying to say that the rudders were electrically controlled/powered ?
>>
Sounds about right.
Most things today are controlled by electronics - think about it, in cars the one of only things that is truly mechanically linked these days, is the steering. And they want to sever that link as well.....
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I did say the hole was quite big earlier - seen it again and it's worse than I first thought.
I've read one person saying it could be a similar situation to when the QM2 had power problems. The diesel generators could have gone offline thus meaning no power to the engines and therefore no steering either. But without the engines it would be difficult to keep the ship from going in the wrong direction - maybe?
They had only left port two hours earlier - and no up to date passenger list? Many could have left the ship an then left the island without being accounted for. I hope so.
in the Telegraph article it mentions the same ship got blown into the port dock at Palerma. And A sister ship a few years ago ran into a dock in Egypt and killed two crew.
I realise that in June/July this year I saw another sister ship of this in port at Rhodes Town. It was the Costa Fortuna. And I note the wiki page for this cruise company has been edited to say this ship today is out of service. Looks a right off to me lying on its side! And it was over £370m to build it!
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Awful experience for some of these people of course.
But would anyone in their right mind spend thousands of pounds to be shut up on a huge floating hotel with 4,000 boring well-heeled oldsters, perhaps for weeks? Just imagine the entertainment. The conversation at dinner. The exquisite torture. The way time drags under those circumstances.
You would long for a Somali pirate attack to relieve the boredom.
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>> Awful experience for some of these people of course.
>>
>> But would anyone in their right mind spend thousands of pounds to be shut up
>> on a huge floating hotel with 4,000 boring well-heeled oldsters, perhaps for weeks? Just imagine
>> the entertainment. The conversation at dinner. The exquisite torture. The way time drags under those
>> circumstances.
>>
>> You would long for a Somali pirate attack to relieve the boredom.
>>
I don't know. One of the rescued crew was a 22 year old female dancer...
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A few years ago an older friend succumbed to spousal pressure and booked a cruise. Being a canny Yorkshireman he made sure that the relationship between price paid and quality of experience was in his favour. The upshot was that he ended up borrowing my DJ etc at no cost but ruefully later reported that the cost of outfits for his wife more or less exceeded that of the fare for the trip.
Having said that, he did also remark that despite his ever so slighttly advancing years the trip made him feel young again as by some considerable margin he and his expensively attired wife were by far the youngest members of the party.
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Knowing nothing about marine architecture I would venture a guess that even if the vessel can be re-floated it will be beyond economic repair. Making good the effects of a few weeks salt water immersion of the complete starboard side would be very costly.
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>You would long for a Somali pirate attack to relieve the boredom.
My thoughts exactly AC but my cousin and his missus love 'em and take a cruise as their main holiday each year.
I seem to remember that some cruise ships had clay shooting off the stern which would keep me amused but I suppose that's not allowed any more.
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>>But would anyone in their right mind spend thousands of pounds to be shut up on a huge floating hotel with 4,000 boring well-heeled oldsters, perhaps for weeks?<<
I'd rather do 2 weeks in The Ville, Sire.
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Our neighbours go on regular cruises.Me not that interested Diana is scared off the sea.Took her once on the Yorkshire Bell out of Bridlington.A bit of a swell she got ill.
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You'd better come to The Ville with me then Dutchie ~ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentonville_(HM_Prison)
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No thanks I am happy where i am.Two years at a boarding school was enough for me.I can't remember if it was boarding or belt you into line school.>:)
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Good wholesome food at The Ville Dutchie ~
"breakfast of 10 ounces of bread and three-quarters of a pint of cocoa; dinner was half a pint of soup (or four ounces of meat), five ounces of bread and one pound of potatoes; supper a pint of gruel and five ounces of bread".
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>> You'd better come to The Ville with me then Dutchie ~ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentonville_(HM_Prison)
You may not believe this but I drove past the Ville not fifteen minutes ago. It's just down the road from here, on the way to various places. Had a labouring job just round the corner c. 1960 too...
Been inside it too, many years ago, but only as a visitor of course. African acquaintance banged up pending repatriation, having overstayed...
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A fair number of infamous inmates Sire = Oscar Wilde, Dr. Crippen, John Christie, Arthur Koestler - Hungarian British Jew who wrote Darkness at Noon (as you well know) contracted Parkinsons dis-ease + terminal leukaemia then comitted suicide at home in London with his wife in 1983.
I shall have to put Koestler on my 'must read' list.
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>> John Christie,
Do stop it Dog. The incredibly evil nerd Christie and his pathetic patsy Timothy Evans lived down behind my last gaff in the Grove. Rillington place was demolished but a culde-sac on its footprint was rebuilt immediately, posh-but-nasty private housing, sort of gated, now called Ruston Mews. Nearest garage to my old gaff at the end of it so I've seen it literally thousands of times with the same thoughts every time.... A rough carwash there too, nice Persians running it for years...
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 15 Jan 12 at 00:04
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It was the Costa Fortuna.
Who was the captain, Sid James ?
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>> It was the Costa Fortuna.
>> Who was the captain, Sid James
but it was :-) I've got a photo of it... and it's on their website.
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>> This from the BBC's Transport correspondent -
>>
>> 'Modern ships tend to use electrical generators to drive the engines, so a power cut
>> can leave the captain unable to steer away from danger.'
>>
>> What ?
>>
>> I'm guessing he was trying to say that the rudders were electrically controlled/powered ?
Cant see them, but I assume it has side thrusters, they would be electrically powered.
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Certainly some modern vessels don't have rudders, as such. The new Cunard ones come to mind; they have power pods which can be independently rotated to provide propulsion and directional control.
www.rolls-royce.com/marine/products/propulsors/
May also be relevant that the owners of this cruise ship (Carnival) have successfully sued R/R for failure of the "pods".
This week Carnival Cruise Lines was awarded $24 million in a lawsuit with Rolls Royce related to the repeated failure of the ”Mermaid Pods” on Carnival’s Cunard Line ship, Queen Mary 2. Last year about this time Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines reached a $65 million settlement with Rolls Royce over Mermaid pods on its ships.
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>> >> This from the BBC's Transport correspondent -
>> >>
>> >> 'Modern ships tend to use electrical generators to drive the engines, so a power
>> cut
>> >> can leave the captain unable to steer away from danger.'
>> >>
>> >> What ?
>> >>
>> >> I'm guessing he was trying to say that the rudders were electrically controlled/powered ?
>>
>> Cant see them, but I assume it has side thrusters, they would be electrically powered.
>>
Modern passenger ships often use "Propulsion pods" which are electrically powered and rotate through 360° to steer and manoeuvre the ship. It would have several side thrusters in the bow, also electrically powered.
tinyurl.com/7qjunha
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>Submerged rocks are not necessarily on the same side as the land you can see.
Someone reporting for Sky News earlier today said that there were reports that the ship had been deliberately run aground after the crew realised the extent of the damage.
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That may be a saving grace considering the size of the hole.
In deeper water the thing looks like it could have capsized!!!
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>> In deeper water the thing looks like it could have capsized!!!
In deeper water it does look like it would have capsized. Like in the Poseidon Adventure!
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The captain probably went to shallow water - the theory given was for it to settle on a sand bank upright. Clearly didn't work. But I thought they'd lost power...
Meldrew I agree about the weeks in salt water will render it a write off. An expensive one.
And I'd hate to be on a cruise! Cooped up with people and only short excursions ashore.
I know someone who did the Panama canal recently. They have booked two more cruises for next year. One starts in the med but sails to America.
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We only do short cruises and treat it as a moving hotel, also we don't get involved with the "captains cocktail party" (he is just the hired help to drive the ship) and other "up themseves" stuff. In fact I never dress above smart casual, there are plenty of choices of restaurants on board, not all formal.
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These things look top heavy to me.
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>> These things look top heavy to me.
They do to me too. But they do float and there must be natural balance. Introduce a big hole and ingress of water and it seems to go over very easily.
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Not like tankers they can take some hammer.Car ferries turn very easy not a lot of water needed.
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>Meldrew I agree about the weeks in salt water will render it a write off. An expensive one.
I'm not so sure about a write off unless she has unseen structural damage. She's quite young and close enough to shore for easy repair and refloat so I'm inclined more towards recovery and a re-fit.
This brings to mind a warning I was given the first time we went sailing in Greece.
A large motor yacht was being delivered to Greece from the south of France when it hit a submerged rock in the Corfu channel and eventually sank.
The crew were night sailing relying on GPS, seemingly unaware that Admiralty charts for some areas of the Med. haven't been updated for years and are not mapped to GPS accuracy.
The rock on the chart was actually hundreds of metres from the location shown.
I doubt that this tragedy was caused by similar errors but it does illustrate the dangers of night time sailing in coastal waters.
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A source slightly, but not much, more reliable than the Wail states, an hour ago
Three people were killed and 40 are still missing after the vessel ran aground yesterday evening.
Reports say captain Francesco Schettino and first officer abandoned the ship at 11.30pm on Friday night, although the last passengers were not taken to safety until 3am the following morning.
Last edited by: Meldrew on Sat 14 Jan 12 at 21:25
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>>but it does illustrate the
>> dangers of night time sailing in coastal waters.
>>
Ships don't stop at night any more than aircraft stop flying.
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>Ships don't stop at night any more than aircraft stop flying.
Nor should they, if they are equipped and capable of dealing with the dangers, which was exactly my point.
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Electrical failure is mentioned,Ship might be saved depends if the owners through insurance get in touch with Smit Tak.The best people to do the job ,they have the floating cranes to right her.
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So I wonder if the people booked on this ship for next Friday are happy they weren't on it this week or disappointed their cruise won't happen. And I suppose the same question for many other tens of thousands of passengers already booked.
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The rescue services usually come in for a kicking on here most of the time. It's times like this you show them some respect. 4000 rescued, that's some feat. Hats off to the Italian rescuers. Even in this country, when you are in need of help, it's there. No matter how much you moan on here, you should be proud of those public servants ready to hold out a hand. You never know when disaster may strike.
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>> 4000 rescued, that's some feat.
In this case the number rescued due to (a) savvy people needing rescuing and (b) staff helping. Rescuers as such will have arrived later. Still a concern about some missing :-(
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I was listening to an old American babe on the wireless, who had survived with her husband. She said it was chaotic, hardly surprisingly, but also noted that there was no 'women and children first' rubbish, the blokes just rushed for the boats shoving everyone out of the way.
The skipper and officers are for the high jump I reckon. Even though there may not be that many dead. But look at that damn Hilton thingy lying on its side, all those pointless tens of millions of quid. Heads must roll.
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>> The skipper and officers are for the high jump I reckon.
They are damned if they did or didn't do what was necessary. Unless loss of power did lead to all this.... and whilst I hope it did.... what does that mean for the other similar ships/
Reminds me a little of the Air France flight tragedy. That turned out to me pilot error.
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'People were screaming. Women and children were not getting priority at all.'
A quote from some guy in the boat - been watching too many films.
The captain has been arrested.
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The ship was in the wrong place and hit a rock. Either there was a power failure to the propulsion or someone screwed up by putting it there.
I doubt the propulsion failure theory, it was moving when it hit the rock and moved after hitting it.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 15 Jan 12 at 09:19
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Very good point(s) ON. Apart from the lamentable fact that the accident happened, the rescue and care of the survivors seems to have been. excellent. I was wondering what the admin problems will be for the survivors, many of whom will have lost their wallets and passports in the wreck. Still they are alive and the loss of life seems miraculously low, even if all the missing turn out to have died
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>>I was wondering what the admin problems will be for the survivors, many of whom will have lost their wallets and passports in the wreck.
>>
As mentioned before it does ease things a little if you have a copy of key documents stored in an email that can be accessed worldwide,
Obviously the key thing initially is to create a database of all those involved and move on from there.
A big bonus is that they were initially contained in a small area ( island) except for maybe those taken by helicopter. In some air crashes people have been known to just wander off and go home which confuses things a little.
I have in the past been directly involved as a member of a fully equpiped emergency telephone reporting centre. Even with all the training, rehearsals etc I was surprised that a certain amount of confusion still happened when I was at a real event.
Coordinating things ad hoc on that small island must have been really difficult.
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Thanks Henry. I am reminded that there is a free on-line storage facility called Dropbox but I might have doubts about the security of the details stored.
www.dropbox.com/
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>> Thanks Henry. I am reminded that there is a free on-line storage facility called Dropbox
>> but I might have doubts about the security of the details stored.
>>
>> www.dropbox.com/
Dropbox is primarily a place for the synching of data to multiple devices, not a vaulting service. There are plenty of those around.
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>> I was wondering what the
>> admin problems will be for the survivors, many of whom will have lost their wallets
>> and passports in the wreck.
On the scale where loosing your life is possible, loosing your passport and wallet are right at the bottle of the scale. You and your kin, wet shivering but alive on the dockside is your life's bonus.
In cases like this the passport is of little consequence, Everyone will be helped home by their own countries consular services, none of them will even glimpse passport control. The British consular services are well practised at this having done it countless times in the last 100 years.
As far as wallet with money and credit cards, any losses will be covered by insurance (and NO CC company will enforce losses by misuse of cards - could you even imagine the vicious news headlines?) Clothes, Ipods, phones, all covered by insurance.
I guess I am saying, none of this crap is worth a hoot in an emergency, don't even think about it or going back for it. OUT OUT OUT is your primary thought.
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>>I guess I am saying, none of this crap is worth a hoot in an emergency, don't even think about it or going back for it. OUT OUT OUT is your primary thought.
>>
Totally agree.
Been there done that several times. Every time as I rush for the exit, someone will delay - putting on coat cos its cold outside, shut down their PC or collect this / that.
I am out the door like a jack rabbit. I have had far to many near misses in my life to hang around in danger situations.
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Scan your passport - blank out the numbers, send it to your own e-mail account. E-mail the numbers to another account.
"just wander off and go home which confuses things a little"
That's what I'd do if there was any delay - why wait for some bureaucratic twerp with clipboard to tell you you:re free to go.
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>>That's what I'd do if there was any delay - why wait for some bureaucratic twerp with clipboard to tell you you:re free to go.
>>
no smilie ?
Your friends and relatives might not agree.
Log your details with the twerp and then your choice wander off.
The process is difficult enough. When manning a call centre all we were allowed to say is " We have noted your enquiry and logged your details if anyone was on a missing list "
Many calls will come in re people who " I think, might have been, this month, in the med, etc etc.
We await the final report.
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>>>That's what I'd do if there was any delay - why wait for some bureaucratic twerp with clipboard to tell you you:re free to go.
If you are accounted for, then go. However, it would be seriously remiss to slink off without notifying the authorities that you are safe otherwise they may be sending people in to danger to look for you!
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>
>> "just wander off and go home which confuses things a little"
It does more than confuses people.
Imagine one of the divers searching for people on the ship gets trapped and dies. Turns out those people had wandered off because of a few little admin inconveniences.
Its happened, in all sorts of incidents. Firemen have needlessly lost lives under those circumstances.
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>>
>> Its happened, in all sorts of incidents. Firemen have needlessly lost lives under those circumstances.
>>
>>
That's why they hang a sign in the back window "Passengers on board".
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Regarding the evacuation of the ship.
There will be those, as on aircraft, where the safety briefings are of no interest, then in a real emergency they become a danger to themselves and everyone else. There may even be those, on hearing an emergency alarm, think that it would be a false alarm.....large modern cruise ship, 'I'm on holiday, safe as houses' - won't bother until the thing really goes pear shaped.
Add to this a possibility of loss of power (lighting), although I would expect some sort of battery powered emergency lighting within the ship. Then there would be confusion caused by the listing of the ship, especially for the passengers who may have only just embarked.
Even knowing the layout of a ship very well, sudden darkness and listing of a ship can be very confusing....add scores of other confused passengers, elderly, very young, many speaking different languages also bits of kit falling from stowages etc as the ship moves.
30+ years in the Andrew....I wouldn't even consider a cruise, not just from a safety view either.
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This should help - 'Modern ships have a "black box" system, similar to aircraft, that record voices on the bridge, as well as taking screen shots of the radar position and other data.'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16563732
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Unofficially the Captain and Officers know what has happened.Any engine failure or electrical the first engineer if he got off the vessel.
Big floating hotels very nice untill there is a accident.Scary.
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I heard a brilliant statement on the TV this morning.
"The rock was in the wrong place"
I am sure that the rock had been there for thousands of years and was less than impressed at being run over by a ship. :-)
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How fast was the ship going.?Big hole on the side.Did the Oldman try to turn the vessel giving it to much power.If there was a Engine Electrical failure they could have dropped a anker.
Many questions.
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>> I heard a brilliant statement on the TV this morning.
>>
>> "The rock was in the wrong place"
I heard Andrew Marr read that out from one of the papers on his TV programme this morning, and like you ON he pointed out that it was the ship that was at fault. The link I posted above states that the ship was off course by 3-4 nautical miles.
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That reminds me of this story (not true as it happens....)
This is based on an actual radio conversation between a U.S. Navy
aircraft carrier (U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln) and Canadian authorities
off the coast of Newfoundland in October, 1995. (The radio
conversation was released by the Chief of Naval Operations on
10/10/95 authorized by the Freedom of Information Act.)
Canadians: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the South to
avoid collision.
Americans: Recommend you divert your course 15 degrees to the
North to avoid a collision.
Canadians: Negative. You will have to divert your course 15
degrees to the South to avoid a collision.
Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again,
divert YOUR course.
Canadians: No, I say again, you divert YOUR course.
Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS LINCOLN, THE SECOND
LARGEST SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET. WE ARE
ACCOMPANIED BY THREE DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS
SUPPORT VESSELS. I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR COURSE 15 DEGREES
NORTH--I SAY AGAIN, THAT'S ONE FIVE DEGREES NORTH--OR
COUNTER-MEASURES WILL BE UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS SHIP.
Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.
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I listened to some rep spouting of a top shipping organisation.
From the information I have read and the images I have seen I could not believe what he was saying.
Lifeboat drill within 24 hours of boarding.
IIRC this was the last leg of a week cruising so surely all had done this.
All know where their muster stations are.
Yes boss but the ship has a 10% tilt and I suspect my muster station will not function.
" Now will you all just stand still while I unpack plan B or plan C ooor. You are not listening. Please come back!"
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A very good version of the above story on Youtube.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5onkl2EHV4
Last edited by: zippy on Sun 15 Jan 12 at 16:02
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The damage is closer to the stern than the bows and the stabiliser appears intact. It seems to me that indicates it was doing a turn to starboard, or it drifted onto the obstruction. Perhaps a power failure and then the damage?
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On one of the clips
.. a 1939 book shows:
The fog was very thick, and the Chief Officer of the tramp steamer was peering over the side of the bridge. Suddenly, to his intense surprise, he saw a man leaning over a rail, only a few yards away.
"You confounded fool!" he roared. "Where the devil do you think your ship's going? Don't you know I've got the right of way?"
Out of the gloom came a sardonic voice:
"This ain't no blinkin' ship, guv'nor. This 'ere's a light'ouse!"
Silva made a good ad from that.
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The gash starts port midships, and gets worse towards the stern where upon the rock was so deeply embedded that it was torn from the sea bed. The rock completely missed the stabiliser fin forrard of the commencement of the gash.
Indicates to me, it was moving forwards, at some speed, and was turning to port. One cant tell from the damage if it was under power or control, merely which way it was moving and how much momentum it had
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 15 Jan 12 at 16:36
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>> Indicates to me, it was moving forwards, at some speed, and was turning to port.
>>
I think you mean "turning to starboard" Zero. The stern of a ship moves in the opposite direction to the turn. A bit like rear wheel steering, (fork lift).
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 15 Jan 12 at 17:00
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...I think you mean "turning to starboard" Zero. The stern of a ship moves in the opposite direction to the turn...
Perhaps the captain had Zero's grasp of the way a ship turns.
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>> ...I think you mean "turning to starboard" Zero. The stern of a ship moves in
>> the opposite direction to the turn...
>>
>> Perhaps the captain had Zero's grasp of the way a ship turns.
When you are qualified as a ships captain for something 300 metres long, I will accept your comment, till then you know as much as do, so dont pretend otherwise.
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...When you are qualified as a ships captain for something 300 metres long, I will accept your comment, till then you know as much as do, so dont pretend otherwise...
What part of the phrase 'posted in jest' don't you understand?
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>> When you are qualified as a ships captain for something 300 metres long, I will
>> accept your comment, till then you know as much as do, so dont pretend otherwise.
>>
My apologies Zero, I was only qualified to drive vessels up to about 60' in length. However none of the nuclear submarines that I navigated close inshore over a ten year period ever hit anything. I also used to teach inshore navigation.
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ON
I trust that you are not Commander Andy Coles or his navigator then! :).
Or you taught any of the navigators of HMS Nottingham in 2002!
Last edited by: pmh on Mon 16 Jan 12 at 10:00
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No, In my day it was done with a bearing compass, pencil, and chart. All this relying on satnav will only eventually end in tears. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 16 Jan 12 at 10:12
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>> My apologies Zero, I was only qualified to drive vessels up to about 60' in
>> length. However none of the nuclear submarines that I navigated close inshore over a ten
>> year period ever hit anything. I also used to teach inshore navigation.
My comment was not aimed at you ON
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>>My comment........
OK, No problem. :-)
Penny dropped.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 16 Jan 12 at 11:08
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I mean the sharp pointy bit of the ship at the front was moving to the left towards the rock. The front bit of the ship missed the rock but as it continued to tuirn left hit hit a rock to its left side, the gash got worse towards the blunt back bit as it continued its turn,
You are right that the back bit could have hit the rock on its back left side as it turned right, but it would need to be turning pretty hard, plus the damage would not have been so great.
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Oh come on Z, even a 12' pleasure boat driver better than that. :-)
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Who fancies a cruise? - Meldrew
