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As the title suggests, a place to discuss Formula One, and all other types of motorsport (excluding MotoGP, which has a section of its own).
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Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 11 Dec 21 at 21:28
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So what do we think about this new test feature for F1 qualifying?
Certainly offers the Saturday qualifier crowd much more of a spectacle, and it was certainly competitive up front for the first 3 laps, but then seemed to settle down into a "lets not cause any issues for the real race day and cruise through this to the end"
Certainly not something you could do or want to do at Monaco.
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Let's keep it and ditch the Sunday procession.
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I don't think tomorrow is going to be a procession.
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Some races are inevitably processions because of lack of overtaking possibilities on track but I'm not sure Silverstone is one of those.
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>> Some races are inevitably processions because of lack of overtaking possibilities on track but I'm
>> not sure Silverstone is one of those.
its not, not by a long way, Two DRS zones, wide track, fast corners with a myriad of different lines and grip coefficients
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So, not a procession, though quite an oops.
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The BBC has apparently run out of radio channels (golf and cricket have grabbed R5L and R5LX) so there is a temporary DAB station from 2.30pm BST "BBC Radio 5 Live Formula 1" for the live commentary. A re-scan has just found it.
I don't see the point of the 'sprint' race. Because it resets the grid, it's effectively part of the race itself, which is red-flagged at 100Km. and re-started on the Sunday. It's obvious why they've done that, because without the grid reset most drivers wouldn't care where they finished so would just trundle round looking after the car.
Final Practice 2 is of limited use because the cars can't be changed after qualifying, and FP3 has gone. So the drivers/cars now go into qualifying after only one practice session which will make set-up and tyre management harder for no good reason I can see apart from randomly messing up the teams.
I think it needs a tweak or two. Or binning.
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Interesting take on it, I'd not really thought in depth about it and was quite pleased to see something a bit different but you have a point.
Though the teams and drivers (and commentators on Sky) seemed to like it. Not that any of them have a vested interest LOL
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Personally I preferred the flying lap qualifier.
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Yes, I think I did too. Though it's difficult to work out the real impact of changes until the entire industry has adjusted their approach, strategy and tactics to suit which will take some time.
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I hope Lewis remembers Andretti's quote (IIRC) "What comes around, goes around".
Luckily, no-one will be harmed.
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I like the idea but I understand that teams can change tyres for the actual race. What may be more interesting would be to ensure the same tyres they finished the sprint with had to be used to start the race.
This would involve some interesting strategic choices - select the best tyres for for the sprint to get the best grid position for the race, or select the best tyres for the race which could compromise grid position.
Anyway - two proper races over the weekend is better than one!
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On first view I thought that was Verstappen's fault, he seemed to close the gap on Lewis. On the replays I thought it was a "racing incident" - 50/50. IMO he was unlucky to get the penalty but in the end he is a great driver and overcame the disadvantage.
Whatever, it was exciting racing don't you think?
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>> Whatever, it was exciting racing don't you think?
I do think, very enjoyable.
I think Hamilton was pushing his luck a bit and Verstappen pushed it by trying to bully him. A tactic always doomed to failure, I should think.
Inevitable incident with two such skilled and competitive drivers.
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Didn't see it I was out chasing trains. Came back, to headlines about Verstappen claiming Lewis was dirty.
Watched a highlight of the crash, just once, and that was enough to decide "Racing incident"
Big Prang tho! 51G? jeez
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>> I hope Lewis remembers Andretti's quote (IIRC) "What comes around, goes around".
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>> Luckily, no-one will be harmed.
>>
I think that is what has just happened to Max, and it was inevitable.
Max's standard tactic is to create a situation in which either somebody backs off or there is an accident. Lewis has been the one to back off on at least three occasions, and I don't think that was cowardice. With Mercedes' superiority eroded, and RB/Max leading the championship, the shoe is now on the other foot. Max knew Lewis was there and could have avoided him by going wider, as Leclerc wisely did having had a ringside seat earlier.
Leclerc btw said it was a racing incident.
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There is backing off, or giving room, then there is going off roading like LeClerc, that was extreme, looked like loss of bottle.
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Racing incident in my view.
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>> Racing incident in my view.
I think the issue is how the race stewards dish out the penalties, which are generally inconsistent.
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Its not like offside in football, the driving offence is subjective by a human, and there are no defined penalty scales, or if they are they are very wide.
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I suspect an eye was on the media, it's potential headlines, and the ranting of the baying mobs..
The lack of punishment of Vertsappen and the significant punishment of Hamilton were all part of media management, far more than race management.
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The race stewards are racing people not PR and I wouldn't think they give a rats wotsit about what the media thinks. The decision was made during racing and I doubt that anyone would be invited to scrutineer the decision for the sake of the media.
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Perhaps they were unduly influenced by Horner's melodramatic outburst. It could of course have had far more serious consequences for Verstappen but it was as much his choice as Hamilton's and the outcome of such incidents is unpredictable. He knew Hamilton was there and almost certainly presumed he would defer as he has before - assuming that was even possible from there, Hamilton missed the apex so was probably struggling to turn in. Another interpretation is that he had been hoping to run Verstappen out of road on the exit, another favourite Verstappen tactic.
Neither was for compromising.
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So you believe they make their decisions, clearly visible in both the public eye and the eye of the media, with no thought or interest in how their decisions will be regarded or received because they are "racing people"?
I think you have more faith than I do
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>> So you believe they make their decisions, clearly visible in both the public eye and
>> the eye of the media, with no thought or interest in how their decisions will
>> be regarded or received because they are "racing people"?
Err yes, Senna certainly did that to Prost on more then one occasion with no regard to the potential outcry. Winning was all. M Schumacher certainly did ditto lots of times. And Kimi Raikonen has publicly said on a few occasions he couldnt give a "schidt"
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 19 Jul 21 at 20:38
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Crossed lines - Smokie and I were discussing the stewards, not the drivers. If you're struggling then seek help from the member of God's people that we planted in your house.
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>> Crossed lines - Smokie and I were discussing the stewards, not the drivers. If you're
>> struggling then seek help from the member of God's people that we planted in your
>> house.
they speak the devils language, best to ignore them
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>they speak the devils language, best to ignore them
Mr Gates? Mr Gates Sir? We have a faulty chip in Ingerland.
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>> >they speak the devils language, best to ignore them
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>> Mr Gates? Mr Gates Sir? We have a faulty chip in Ingerland.
>>
On smurfs advice I dug it out after the CV jab put it in.
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It was funny to see Christian Horner talking to the media after the race. Does that man ever stop whining? He seems to forget the number of times he's been in front of the cameras trying to convince us that Verstappen's latest game of chicken with another driver is 'the drive and determination needed to win championships'.
As far as Horner and Marko claiming that the consequences of the shunt were so serious that they justified a race suspension for Hamilton - err, sorry but the consequences are not considered unless it's a deliberate act and they know that. If drivers had to conduct a "What if?" risk analysis before every overtake they'd both be out of jobs.
Even Damon Hill was crowing about the consequences. Well, Hamilton had nothing to do with the safety measures and Damon might not like the headlines. "Ex BRDC President who secured F1 GP for Silverstone admits circuit is unsafe."
Plonkers.
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"Lewis Hamilton has been the target of racist abuse on social media after his victory at Sunday's British Grand Prix."
It was inevitable, given what's recently happened with the footy.
Not for one minute agreeing with it, btw.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57885011
Verstappen's team Red Bull Racing said it was "disgusted and saddened" at the abuse directed towards Hamilton.
"While we may be fierce rivals on-track, we are all united against racism," the team said in a statement. "We condemn racist abuse of any kind towards our team, our competitors and our fans.
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>>It was inevitable, given what's recently happened with the footy.
I fear that it has become trendy amongst a certain type of knuckle dragger and window licker.
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yeah they cant even be first or original
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They'd better be pretty damn sure that Verstappen changes his tactics going forward then, because whatever happens with this appeal they certainly will be carefully watched in future.
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The stewards have called both team managers plus required witnesses to a meeting, I think it was this Thursday afternoon.
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When Horner was in front of the cameras after Silverstone he was criticising Hamilton for going down the inside at Copse and saying "it's dangerous" and "unacceptable".
He had no complaints when Vettel did it twice to Alonso in 2014. Couldn't be because Vettel was in a Red Bull and Alonso backed out on both occasions could it?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVnbJQRpG5w
Max must be embarrased having to go along with this pantomime.
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The Stewards have told Horner to £$^%-off and stop wasting their time.
His "new evidence" turn out to be four sets of slides "not ‘discovered’ but created for the purposes of submissions to support the petition for review. And they were created based on evidence that was available at the time of the decisions. That clearly does not satisfy the requirements of Article 14.”
They also warned him to stop stirring the sheet, for his own good - “The Stewards note, with some concern, certain allegations [which have not been made public] made in the Competitor's above letter. Such allegations may or may not have been relevant to the Stewards if the Petition for Review had been granted. The Stewards may have addressed these allegations directly in any decision that would have followed. The Petition having been dismissed, the Stewards make no comments on those allegations.”
www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-stewards-dismiss-red-bull-request-to-review-hamiltons-british-grand.4tB8ExYNrCExZN3QXSPMUP.html
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It appears not. Verstaffen still complaining, in today’s interviews, about Hamilton celebrating after driving him off the track.
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All the F1 sites are embroidering this story for clicks. The most interesting comments I've seen on this came IIRC from Motorsport.
The pith was that Hamilton and Verstappen need to swap tactics.
Max's standard approach is to go for everything - and when you don't have the best car, that is the only way you will stand a chance of nicking a championship from similarly skilled driver who does.
On the other hand, when Lewis was comfortably winning the championship and a 50-50 situation arose, he would always back off - in a situation like last week's, that would have meant possibly finishing with 8 points fewer than Max, a better outcome than the considerable risk of a DNF (or in Lewis's mind, hoping for a opportunity to pass the other car later in the race. When the other car is Max's, that hope is in vain - with a better car, he will not see Max again until the the race is over.
Lewis has already adopted Max'x old ways. Max needs to go into Hamilton mode, let Lewis have the 50-50's and beat him over the season with overall superiority.
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That is some severe tyre-assisted deceleration. I bet that'll hurt for days.
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51g deceleration apparently, you'll be hurting in internal organs you didnt know you had till then.
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I'm sure they know what they're doing, but somehow you'd think that deeper or softer gravel surface would have provided more deceleration ahead of the big one.
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>> I'm sure they know what they're doing, but somehow you'd think that deeper or softer
>> gravel surface would have provided more deceleration ahead of the big one.
You remember catch fencing? slowed then down progressively, but trapped the driver in a potential fire trap.
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>> I'm sure they know what they're doing, but somehow you'd think that deeper or softer
>> gravel surface would have provided more deceleration ahead of the big one.
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I think if they make it deeper, cars are at a much higher risk of flipping over. I guess it's a difficult thing to balance.
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Also they want to avoid beaching cars where the driver makes a minor mistake.
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>>cars are at a much higher risk of flipping over.
Yes, that makes sense.
You'd think there would be something less brutal than old tyres which could go as a mid point between the gravel and the tyres.
On the other hand, it's been quite a long time since anybody died in such circumstances, so I guess they must be doing ok.
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>> You'd think there would be something less brutal than old tyres which could go as
>> a mid point between the gravel and the tyres.
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>> On the other hand, it's been quite a long time since anybody died in such
>> circumstances, so I guess they must be doing ok.
Its amazing how such a cheap low tech solution works in such a hideously expensive hi tech environment.
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>>You'd think there would be something less brutal than old tyres which could go as a mid point between the gravel and the tyres.
Whenever I've been close to these barriers, the bottom of each tyre has been full of water. Inevitable I suppose when it rains. I always wondered if the water is a design element because it must add lots of mass to the barrier.
You always used to see water splashed when something hit them, I didn't see it in Verstappen's crash.
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I'd always assumed it was rain water. Be a bit difficult to do on purpose, surely?
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>> Verstappen sure woke up a few spectators!!
Anyone who's been to Santa Pod will know how much debris is thrown up if a top fuel drag car hits the wall travelling up the ¼ mile strip, or if an engine lets go at full chat.
Not sure if things have changed now, but it only used to be a waist high thick concrete wall between you and the cars on the pit side of the strip. No high fences to help catch anything.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 20 Jul 21 at 20:11
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Guess the little old lady with her precautionary brolly up in the video was at the Pod around the same time as you then, and knew what to expect... :-)
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Hungary. Its wet, a very very eventful start. Will be much recrimination
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Aug 21 at 03:04
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For once I think you may be making an understatement.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Aug 21 at 03:04
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Ruddy Hell! Thats Bizzare! Never the seen the like ever!
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Aug 21 at 03:04
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More Mercedes team f.ups it seems.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Aug 21 at 03:05
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Or not.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Aug 21 at 03:05
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Jeez, Hamilton and Alonso, best racing you have ever seen? Dont think I have ever seen better in any of the F1 eras.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Aug 21 at 03:05
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I wouldn't put money on the result.
But Hamilton is damned good.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Aug 21 at 03:05
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Lets see if Sainz can do as well.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Aug 21 at 03:05
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Not Sainz, Vettel
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Aug 21 at 03:05
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Great race.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Aug 21 at 03:05
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Blimey, not much. I may even watch the highlights.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Aug 21 at 03:05
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I will. I have to live with the commentary in Spanish on the live event, nice to catch up with English commentary.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Aug 21 at 03:03
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The sky sports coverage through ESPN on kodi was thankfully very stable today.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Aug 21 at 03:03
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Did you see this, Zero? Pretty harsh.
www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/58050375
[caution to anybody else, spoilers].
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Aug 21 at 03:04
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blimey,even after the race is over the surprises keep coming.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Aug 21 at 03:04
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>> Pretty harsh.
Nudge a competitor off the track at 180 mph, and incur a 10 second penalty.
Run the fuel tank almost dry and get disqualified.
Hmmm! Someone really needs to rewrite that stupid rule book.
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I don't know anybody who has recently nudged a competitor off the track. But had someone done so then I imagine that the punishment would also have been heavy.
That to one side, the rules say they have to produce 0.5l of fuel, and they couldn't. The punishment for not doing so is disqualification. Which is both according to the rules, and quite logical and understandable, but a bit rough on someone on his first podium in his new car who was, I assume, not responsible for the fuel levels.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 2 Aug 21 at 04:30
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Well he didn't exactly drive himself off the track at Silverstone, did he?
>> the rules say they have to produce 0.5l of fuel
1 litre actually ;)
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Verstappen knew he was there, and turned towards him - ergo propter hoc? He was the one who only had to open the steering to back out. Of course he would say he had left enough space but if Hamilton couldn't make the apex...
If Verstappen had backed out RB could have made the argument about Hamilton "forcing Max off" and pushed for the place back. But Max doesn't yield so there was contact.
It's ludricrous, looking at the sequence and timing of what happened, to suggest Hamilton nudged him off although we can't say that he wasn't hoping to run Max wide. Hamilton could easily have broken or bent the track rod in that contact and in fact had the race not been stopped he would have had to carry on with damage as it was.
I'm not even making the argument that Hamilton didn't break the rules although it is clearly debatable, but if Max has an accident that he could have avoided, even if he had 'right of way', then there is a limit to the sympathy he should expect.
He is a brilliant driver of course but it's great fun seeing him sulk. He now appears to be implying that Bottas knocked him off the track deliberately. Did Bottas, like a snooker player, see the 'plant' in which if he hit Norris then Norris would cannon Verstappen and pot him? Shame Bottas went in off at the same time...
What Red Bull is doing by rubbishing Hamilton and Mercedes will do nobody any good, including themselves.
Hamilton must be chortling to himself, seeing how riled Max is. And Hamilton has made his statement in regard to future 50/50 situations. If Max remains uncompromising we will see another coming together quite soon. Can't wait.
If Bernie was still in charge I'd think he had choreographed it:)
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 2 Aug 21 at 12:51
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>> He is a brilliant driver of course but it's great fun seeing him sulk. He
>> now appears to be implying that Bottas knocked him off the track deliberately. Did Bottas,
>> like a snooker player, see the 'plant' in which if he hit Norris then Norris
>> would cannon Verstappen and pot him? Shame Bottas went in off at the same time...
That would take a really skilful driver, his car was not fitted with such a feature.
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I think Horner is the one making himself look ridiculous.
I haven't heard anything particularly sulky from Verstappen. His problem really is that last year he had the ongoing excuse/justification of being in the slower car whereas this year he has the pressure of knowing he could win each race and having to attribute responsibility if he doesn't.
That and a Hamilton who will now fight every contest where last year he was prepared to let the marginal ones go.
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>> I think Horner is the one making himself look ridiculous.
I would tend to agree with that. It might, charitably though, be a bit of a rock and a hard place scenario. I can only imagine that he's playing to the gallery of his shareholders and sponsors. If he said or did nothing, they might say he should have, while saying too much, makes him look churlish.
Anyway, much more importantly, this year is shaping up to be one of the most interesting in a very long time. As mentioned above, I loved the Hamilton v Alonso battle yesterday.
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>> I loved the Hamilton v Alonso battle yesterday.
Me too, but in typical Hamilton tradition, he's straight on the radio throwing a hissy fit. "He's not letting me pass, he's weaving too much, his elbows are too wide, sob sob."
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I’m surprised Hamilton is going public about blurred vision and dizziness. Is he fit to drive in the public road let alone at 200mph? Presumably he will be having tests and the medics will have to sign him off as safe. Odd though to put it in the public domain where Red Bull might want to make further mischief.
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>> I’m surprised Hamilton is going public about blurred vision and dizziness. Is he fit to
>> drive in the public road let alone at 200mph? Presumably he will be having tests
>> and the medics will have to sign him off as safe. Odd though to put
>> it in the public domain where Red Bull might want to make further mischief.
Yes, I thought that. Didn't really sound like a sensible thing to say openly to the media.
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And after the race he said it was a fantastic piece of driving and he would have done the same for his team.
Also, I can't find the bit where he was sobbing. Did that happen before or after he was nudging people off the track?
You let your irrational dislike of Hamilton cloud your judgement.
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>> Also, I can't find the bit where he was sobbing.
From what I recall, he was whinging on the team radio that Alonso was making it difficult for him to overtake. Something he tends to do when things don't go his own way.
>> Did that happen before or after he was nudging people off the track?
So, did Max drive off the track of his own accord then? To me it looked like he was assisted.
Don't get me wrong, I think Lewis is a good driver, it's just sometimes I wish he would keep his thoughts to himself, instead of broadcasting them on the team radio.
By your own admission, you think it's daft of him to announce his long covid problems.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 3 Aug 21 at 13:13
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Anyone else watching it? At the start of the formation laps (there were three, it's raining) one car was left on the grid on jacks. The first racing lap saw Buemi (number two Toyota) punted off, around fifteen cars spun or missed corners. Could be interesting!
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I watched an hour or so of the start on Quest
The finish is also on Qquest
www.techadvisor.com/how-to/entertainment/watch-le-mans-2021-3678864/
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Live on Eurosport 1.
An incident packed race so far.
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Not having the appropriate package, been listening on radio-uk.co.uk/embed/radio-le-mans
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I thought the commentary, certainly in the early stages when I watched it for an hour or so was childish, with lots of giggling. Not for me.
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The Radio Le Mans guys also commentate on many of the other endurance races in the calendar, I tuned in for the N24, thumbs up to a team who can chat for the full 24 hours even in shifts.
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Couple of mates went down for it on Wednesday, I couldn't as I've been at a blues festival since Thursday.
I just read on another forum that the partner suppling the FM transmitters for the circuit broadcast of Radio Le Mans failed to deliver the equipment in time so people can't get FM commentary. I guess so long as you have enough data you could listen via the website.
It's a hard race to follow if you are there, with multiple class races going on inside the race, and such a long circuit. They have boards around the main spectator areas but not once you get away from there.
Some of the commentary has been really good over the years but one or two of the team are less good.
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Raining. Some teams used two sets of intermediates in one session!
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No real surprise at Spa, it always seems to at some stage!!
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Not a patch on the 1998 race at the same track.
youtu.be/o02s_g5AUUE?t=14
And who would have thought it. Williams (George Russell) P1. Well for a few seconds anyway, until Max dropped him down to P2.
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Was that the race that the safety car had to swerve out the way to avoid being taken out by one of the race cars in the rain?
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It's tipping it down. Perez crashed on his way to the grid. The start was delayed and they did the formation lap behind the safety car when it was red flagged and all the cars are now in the pit lane!
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Still raining - time is running out for the race start. As the cars have been round the track twice, once to the grid, and once behind pace car, who the hell knows what obscure rules will be used to force a result.
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I've heard speculation they might run it tomorrow if they can't get underway this afternoon. Whether the logistics are possible is another matter.
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The race has to be completed within three or four hours of the start time, I'm not sure which. So the officials have stopped the start time clock!
Teams are saying it won't run tomorrow as they'll be on their way to Zandvoort for next weekend.
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Race will start at 17:17 (18:17 local time). teams have had 10 minutes notice!!!! All rushing around like the proverbial headless.
Its a bit like the James Stagg d-day forecast. A brief period of barely tolerable weather
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 29 Aug 21 at 17:13
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Two more laps behind the safety car and it was red flagged.
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.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 29 Aug 21 at 17:29
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And thats it, the race has been declared completed after two safety car laps. Half points as per starting grid (except Perez who crashed on the way there)
Lord knows what C4 are going to put in their highlights prog....
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What a farce which only went ahead to avoid any breaches of contract.
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I wonder how they'll decide who gets the (half) point for the quickest lap, safety car perhaps?
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>> I wonder how they'll decide who gets the (half) point for the quickest lap, safety
>> car perhaps?
I believe it was Mazepin, but it doesn't count as he was not in the top 10.
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Who else can remember the 2005 US grand prix?
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Yes. 6 cars wasn't it, and only the Bridgestone teams started. 1-2 finish for Ferrari. The crowd were not very happy.
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I didn't know about it but I googled it.
Similarly about contractual terms and fear of litigation.
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Who can forget the US grand prix. It killed F1's continued efforts to get a foothold in that country.
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F1 has been coming back in the US (Austin). I'm not sure F1 management really care that much about where it is anyway, their earnings are in rights and merch AIUI.
As far as yesterday goes - what a shame for everyone. Teams, drivers, spectators on the ground - some people will have travelled a long way at some cost as well as their entry tickets.
It's also an unsatisfying outcome in the Championship but doesn't alter stuff too much. I think over the weekend the one I felt most sorry for was Norris, who had his moment when he was looking quite good for pole immediately before Q3 was red flagged.
I don't really see why Spa should refund ticket costs (as I heard mentioned yesterday) as it's a known risk, (rain at Spa, who'da thunk it?) and it's hardly their fault.
During the waffle that was the pre-race chat Brundle said they can't legislate for everything but, while I get that, I don't think yesterday's sequence should have been missing from the risk register.
Spa hasn't had a great August... www.foxsports.com.au/motorsport/formula-one/ceo-of-belgian-f1-grand-prix-circuit-dead-in-reported-murdersuicide/news-story/2abd3c90246af8cb9c75ab618214f8cb
As an aside, when I was at Spa someone pointed out a chateau near the circuit and said it was owned by Mrs Ecclestone, and that she has similar properties close to all the main tracks. Though I can't find any evidence of it on the web.
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Back n the day, that is living memory, Spa would have started. Many a race has been run there in weather worse than that* its what the circuit is all about.
*in cars far less crash resilient and protective of their drivers
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But not surprisingly the drivers had more of a tendency to die as well.
I don't think a race in yesterday's conditions would have been good for anyone. Certainly wouldn't have been much on the telly as you couldn't see very far.
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>> But not surprisingly the drivers had more of a tendency to die as well.
which is why I specifically mentioned the survivability of the cars, a point you pointedly ignored.
>> I don't think a race in yesterday's conditions would have been good for anyone. Certainly
>> wouldn't have been much on the telly as you couldn't see very far.
Spa 1998. Weather far worse. We saw plenty then, certainly saw Schumacher try to fight with Coulthard in the pits.
At the end of the day, F1 in the wet is a spectacle like no other. A leveller, the only time now when driver skill is the deciding factor, and not the technology., To shy away from it, as they appear to be trying to do now, is a loss to the sport.
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Risk, demonstrable skill, uncertainty of outcome etc are all part of what makes human endeavour and competition exciting.
Remove this and F1 starts to become a tedious parade of expensive engineering - frankly not worth watching. Watching the window when it's raining and speculating on the first raindrop to reach the bottom at least has some element of uncertainty.
But there is a balance to be struck between acceptable risk vs death or serious injury to the competitors. I do not want to see the latter, but would be entertained by a battle with the elements which may include major incidents.
I can't comment of the decision made as I did not experience the weather conditions locally. But running a couple of laps behind the safety car and declaring a result diminishes the sport. Either run the race, cancel the race completely, or reschedule in the hope of better weather (probably not logistically feasible).
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>>Either run the race,
Get sued.
>>Cancel the race completely
Get sued
>>reschedule in the hope of better weather
Utter chaos and probably not possible. Also get sued for additional cost/liabilities. Also get sued/reviled for impact on competition.
Or stick within the rules and run a pretend race without risk or contractual breach.
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I enjoy wet weather racing but yesterday it wasn't just raining, it was pouring down all the time, leaving standing water on the track, and rivers running across it. I'd prefer to see cars racing rather than having to tiptoe around.
I didn't pointed ignore anything btw. You'd said it, I wasn't about to repeat it.
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They have to stage an F1 Race. They are contractually bound to do so and there are significant penalties if they do not. Especially if they decide not to, as opposed to being forced into not doing so.
Therefore a race has to be defined so that it can be determined whether or not there was one. What occurred on Sunday was a race. Thus no television company, broadcaster, sponsor, advertiser, corporate event organiser, service provider, contractor, on-site retailer or anybody else has any claim at all.
And that includes the spectators.
However, had they run a full race they could have been sued if it was felt that they were irresponsible to do so, and much worse if something had actually gone wrong.
A lot of the above applies to every team also, particularly in relationship to their sponsors and other contractual obligations.
It wasn't done for the good of the sport - race or not race, it was purely financial reasoning.
But then, without the finances the 'sport' wouldn't be there.
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You may be right that the reason for the charade was contractual and financial.
This is not a defence of what happened - more a reflection of the inadequacy of the contractual arrangements put in place with sponsors, TV companies, teams, drivers, spectators etc etc.
That weather or some other event (volcano, war, pandemic etc etc) effectively stops the action was and is entirely foreseeable. The weekend shambles may have done rather more to damage F1 income through ridicule than cancellation.
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>> The weekend shambles may have done rather more to damage F1 income through ridicule than cancellation.
I wonder about that.
There would be a cumulative effect for me that would eventually reach a point where I lost interest in F1, but I'm not the most dedicated supporter at the best of times.
I wonder how many "proper" supporters are discouraged by such tings. Not many, I suspect.
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Maybe the powers that be should add in a bad weather clause the next time the contracts are agreed..
In recent years I've lost interest in F1 and prefer endurance type races like the Le Mans series and N24, not sure when the last Le Mans race was cancelled due to bad weather but N24 this year succumbed to extreme fog meaning there was only about eleven hours of racing in total.
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I didn't see any racing yesterday so they will have difficulty claiming that a race took place if a spectator sues for the return of their entry fee. That the FIA rules allow points to be awarded after a couple of laps behind a safety car does not alter the situation.
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>>I didn't see any racing yesterday so they will have difficulty claiming that a race took place
I very much doubt they will have any difficulty at all. As I said, a race is defined and a spectator's opinion is not a part of that definition.
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>> Back n the day, that is living memory, Spa would have started. Many a race
>> has been run there in weather worse than that* its what the circuit is all
>> about.
I heard a couple of comments about current wet weather tyres aren't as good as older ones (perhaps they were narrower?) and F1 has races have taken place in such weather.
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F1: Sprint format could become standard approach to grand prix weekend
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59125551
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Two races left and Hamilton 8 points adrift. Hamilton probably needs to win both races to retain the championship.
I fear the Saudi race will be ruined by safety cars.
Other than that, I think Verstappen will end up as this year's champion. Mercedes seems to have the faster car now but unless Hamilton can start in front and disappear, I expect Verstappen to give Hamilton the choice between having an accident or giving way, which seems to be Verstappen's main weapon for both defence and attack, and which he has nothing to lose by using while he is ahead on points.
Any predictions? Maybe Bottas will rediscover his mojo.
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Verstappen can't afford to be too aggressive. Grid position or time penalties could wipe out his advantage PDQ.
My prediction?
No matter what the result is, Horner will be in front of a camera whinging about something.
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>> Verstappen can't afford to be too aggressive. Grid position or time penalties could wipe out
>> his advantage PDQ.
>>
Logical.
However he has had recent success in Brazil with chucking it up the inside and going straight on without penalty when Hamilton started an attempt to go round the outside. Both went off and if Hamilton had not got out of the way both would have been out. Verstappen's already said he would do the same again. A couple of others have also said they might as well give it a go, and I'm pretty sure the FIA will have to revisit its rules at some point.
>> My prediction?
>>
>> No matter what the result is, Horner will be in front of a camera whinging
>> about something.
And Marko, who is now as good as saying he doesn't know what Mercedes is doing but they are cheating!
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 3 Dec 21 at 09:18
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Much as I'd prefer Hamilton to win over Verstappen, you have to feel sorry for Max in qualifying yesterday. He was pushing just a tiny bit too hard when he really didn't need to be 0- though as one of the talking heads said afterwards you can't back off at the end of a lap.
It looked a hard circuit for overtaking, so with Bottas as his rear gunner I would think Hamilton has a great chance of a win, unless he ends up in the wall. Certainly it's taking it up to the wire this season, and I think F1 has been a whole lot better since Mercedes have some serious competition.
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Good so far.
Currently red flagged playing into Max’s hands
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Even a stopped clock is right twice a day and both my predictions for this one were spot on for once. Marred by safety cars, plus re-starts, and Verstappen showed at least three times that he was happy to crash if Hamilton didn't let him pass/stay in front. He was lucky only to get two penalties.
I don't think there's any doubt that unless he can scamper off at Abu Dhabi, he will use the same tactic - if both fail to score, Verstappen will be champion on countback.
I haven't heard the Channel 4 commentary and summary yet, I expect Coulthard will be more supportive of Verstappen, but Jolyon Palmer on BBC radio was quite clear that one driver simply refusing to be overtaken is not good racing.
Palmer gave the "brake test" episode as 50/50 but that was before the data came out showing Verstappen braked at 2.4g on one of the fastest parts of the circuit.
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Certainly an eventful race. Verstappen is clearly "driven" and has employed some pretty dangerous tactics in the last few races. The stewards tend to look at events in isolation but if any of us had a driving record like his we would be at best hooligans and probably banned for a short while. Having said that, although it is frustrating, it has led to some great racing.
In a post-race interview Christian Horner seemed sure that Hamilton had driven into the back of Verstappen of his own volition and through his own carelessness, which was a bit optimistic of him.
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Watching the highlights. Coulthard as usual can't bring himself to criticise Verstappen.
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Spoiler. Don't read.. (because the highlights aren't on for another 20 mins)
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So, equal points going into the last race. I predict fireworks from both the drivers and the teams.
I shall certainly be watching it.
www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/59542213
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 8 Dec 21 at 13:38
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Wow! Just wow!
Edge of seat stuff, what a season ! Looking forward to next week.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 8 Dec 21 at 13:39
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British GP 100km sprint Qualifier - Zero
