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Ongoing debate.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 17 Jan 21 at 03:50
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www.bbc.com/news/world-55514243
Seems Israel isn't hanging about vaccinating people. 12% of the population given their first jab already.
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>> www.bbc.com/news/world-55514243
>>
>> Seems Israel isn't hanging about vaccinating people. 12% of the population given their first jab already.
>>
Meanwhile in England.....
Medics complain of 'bureaucracy' in bid to join Covid vaccine effort.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55516277
The checklist to become an NHS vaccinator
Recognising and managing anaphylaxis
Resuscitation, level 2
Safeguarding adults, level 2
Safeguarding children, level 2
Vaccine administration
Vaccine storage
Health, Safety and Welfare, level 1
Infection Prevention and control, level 2
Introduction to Anaphylaxis
Legal aspects of vaccination
Moving and Handling, level 1
Preventing radicalisation, level 1
Conflict resolution, level 1
Core knowledge for Covid-19 vaccinators
Covid mRNA vaccine BNT162b2 (Pfizer BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine)
Data security awareness, level 1
Equality, Diversity and Human rights, level 1
Fire safety, level 1
OK. Form a queue.
I wonder what the EU regs are ?
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Lovely list of tick box stuff, all done online no doubt with people stabbing at 'next' button as fast as possible.
Can't have anyone out of date on a management excel spreadsheet.
I doubt it's anything to do with the EU.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 2 Jan 21 at 18:38
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Talk about conflating an issue...
All of that bar the specific vaccination parts are standard NHS mandatory training for all staff.
The basic stuff is yearly (infection control, fire & data) whereas the rest are either every two or three years, levels vary depending on where you work.
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Conflict resolution? Things going to get nasty?
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Going to get nasty???
We've gone wayyyy past that point!
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>> Conflict resolution? Things going to get nasty?
We have to do that; de-escalation etc.
I've had somebody get quite arxey "you're on their side - I WANT MY DAY IN COURT" over what looked like one of the most deserved parking tickets ever.
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All the admin is utterly over the top. All that is really needed is a half hour session with a qualified nurse on how to poke a needle in someones arm. Plus, of course the intellect to react to a fire alarm - usually run for the nearest exit away from the fire!
But the public servant in a__e covering mode knows that he/she will be pilloried if a single problem arises with volunteer selection. As so often happens, the solution is far worse than the problem!
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Given that there has been a few cases of reactions to the vaccine, "how to poke a needle in an arm" is not sufficient.
Agree conflict resolution is not required.
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>> Agree conflict resolution is not required.
So you've turned up convinced your appointment for jab #2 is today and not 02/03/2021......
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>> >> Agree conflict resolution is not required.
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>> So you've turned up convinced your appointment for jab #2 is today and not 02/03/2021......
>>
Tough sh, on your bike, Security? chuck him out. NEXT
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 2 Jan 21 at 23:08
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>> Agree conflict resolution is not required.
>>
If you'd seen the posts elsewhere I've been privy to, you'd probably think it was fairly highly up the requirements.
As an example from an 81 year old:
"Why has Tom Jones had his jab before I've been offered mine. I was in the commandos you know, served my country, he's just a b***** entertainer".
That particular thread ran for a bit before being locked, but is already nominated for most bizarre thread of the year, and we're only two days in.
FWIW Tom Jones is 80 (and thus very high up on the list - though he probably didn't serve in the commandos ;-) ).
There is an awful lot of similar out there.
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>> >> Agree conflict resolution is not required.
>> >>
>>
>> If you'd seen the posts elsewhere I've been privy to, you'd probably think it was
>> fairly highly up the requirements.
A security guard in the location with order to throw any lippy gits out the door on their ear, is all the conflict resolution required. This is no time to be touchy feely , no room or time for empathy.
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I'm sure I've related before about my youngest when she worked in secure hospitals (incl Broadmoor) there are no security staff, just nurses who have had a bit of additional restraint training. Which wasn't much use to them one night when the whole floor kicked off, the dayroom and staff office were trashed and the police refused to attend (that was in B'ham, not Broadmoor) - they later apologised and agreed they should have.
So I'd be surprised if the NHS would spring for as many security staff as might be needed.
I don't agree with excessive H&S but there isn't much in that list that oughtn't be there, though it's easy to poke fun at. I like that the person doing me has been properly trained and would know what to do if I keeled over. (Actually nursey daughter did "how to give jabs" training back in the summer and nearly failed first time, it isn't always quite as easy as some might think!!)
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>>Broadmoor...
After Miss Z qualified one of her F1 rotas was at a secure hospital (I think that the term for care for mad murderers etc.)
Security for staff was almost non-existent save for some burley porters.
One thing she witnessed was a planned patient on patient attack which almost resulted in death.
She took to carrying her car keys with her to use if needed.
The men were dangerous, but would tend to switch quickly. One example was a male patient being interviewed tried to chat up the physiatrist and Miss Z. Apparently all very suave and sophisticated, when Miss Z politely smiled and said she had a bf, he went wild and tried to attack both of them.
She said the women were terrifying though. Because they were weaker, they tended to plan their attacks.
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>>She took to carrying her car keys with her to use if needed.
If you mean as a weapon, then that is a really, really bad idea. Unless you are practised, then causing a sufficient injury to deter or incapacitate someone is pretty difficult. Pssing them off is much more likely.
Far better to use hand, nails, knees etc. which are things that can be used instinctively.
Both my girls can defend themselves so I worry less. I wouldn't say most people need to go to their extremes but there are some very good, basic courses in skills such as Krav Maga which would be a very good idea.
There'll be krav maga self defence courses which would be great and ideal for her needs. Typical would be three 4hr lessons. Doesn't make someone a killing machine, but it'll give her significant advantage.
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Broadmoor was a placement a couple of times during training but she worked a few years on secure hospitals in and around B'ham. With a higher staff ration, Broadmoor was probably safer than the B'ham places. She's never mentioned that there were any porters there to help, and she wasn't given a lot of training other than restraint. They had panic buttons around the wards and persona; attack alarms but all this did was summon nursing staff from pother wards.
I'm not sure whether she is really much safer now as she deals with those who have been released into the community, and routinely visits them mostly alone. She calls in to the office before entering a property and then calls in again when she's out, and there are some where she doesn't go in alone. She has assisted the police in removing her patients to hospital if they've been sectioned (usually for violent events, and none are keen to go back inside). Her patch includes the inner city area and her job takes her to some of the least pleasant parts of B'ham, and often into the poorest and most dangerous areas.
Most of her patients don't really understand what's going on at the moment, she said she has one who thinks he has to stay in because the govt is spraying harmful stuff over the population, and she said that many of them don't bother too much with restrictions on going out: it doesn't prevent them visiting and spending time with their drug dealers.
I don't believe she's had more safety training than advanced restraint techniques. I think she'd only really be "allowed" to use recognised techniques, though in the event of her being seriously assaulted I suppose anything is fair enough.
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Yeah... it's not unusual
(In response to T&E Tom Jones story....of course!!)
Last edited by: smokie on Sun 3 Jan 21 at 01:15
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Sorry to slightly derail a serious thread, but not worth one of its own.
Tom Jones. I mean come on. I nearly put my back out just watching this one. Talk about energy!
Two and a half minutes.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=KkKTMoRs-TU
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>> m.youtube.com/watch?v=KkKTMoRs-TU
Love those cuban heel boots. The guy is a legend.
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...take off your jacket and roll your sleeve up Mr Jones, but you can leave your hat on.....
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>> Plus, of course the intellect to react to a fire alarm - usually run
>> for the nearest exit away from the fire!
>>
Working for a large organisation, we have to do an annual fire safety course then take an assessment exam. I did mine last week, to get it out of the way for the New Year, Miss Z got her laptop out and showed me same videos from her Trust, the only difference being the logos used.
2 hour of videos plus PDFs which can be summarised thus: don't do anything stupid. Fight the fire with the appropriate equipment if safe to do so. Know your escape route and don't hang around.
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We did an e learning and assessment package. All of an hour if that.
Didn't keep the certificate so I guess that's me off the vaccinator short list.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Sat 2 Jan 21 at 22:26
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Not quite as simple.. what about all those patients unable to move stuck in bed receiving high flow oxygen near a fire?
How about the patient on the table being operated on? where are they running to?
How about the wards on the top floor and you can't use the lifts?
Arson is the most common reason for fires in the NHS... how to spot and stop the risks.
Ours are tailored to our trust, maybe they aren't all quite the same... granted they don't really change from year to year unless something bad happens.
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My first day at college, the lecturer said if the alarms go off, follow me, if you can keep up. I was usually one of the first out of any building during a fire drill.
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>> www.bbc.com/news/world-55514243
>>
>> Seems Israel isn't hanging about vaccinating people. 12% of the population given their first jab
>> already.
Some of the population are being bypassed
www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/03/palestinians-excluded-from-israeli-covid-vaccine-rollout-as-jabs-go-to-settlers
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Having been to Jerusalem briefly a couple of times and developed an interest I am sympathetic to some of the challenges of a situation that could have been designed to ensure eternal conflict.
The Israeli government does seem to lead with the chin sometimes, but there is more to this story than the headline, as the Guardian story reveals. Not that I expect to understand it at all. The more I try to understand Israel and the Palestine question the more I know how much I don't know. What is the right thing to do is rarely obvious, but Israel's self-interest must surely be in vaccinating as widely as possible, regardless, bearing in mind how vaccination works to protect a population?
In the UK, I see the so-called vaccine calculators are just extrapolating raw numbers and because of the Christmas holiday presumably, my date has gone out by about 3 months to June.
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14.5 hours today for Miss Z. She's working 3 x 12.5 hour shifts. So it's only one more shift before she gets a couple of days off.
The fatality rate for the last 2 days is >30 - in context, that is 7% of the hospital's capacity. Three weeks ago this area had one of the lowest infection rates in the country.
They would be serious issues if 5 or 6 died in normal times (major incidents like crashes etc. excepted).
The morgue is at capacity.
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>>
>> The morgue is at capacity.
In 1971, or 1972, I did a survey of the brand new Charing Cross hospital in Fulham Palace Road, I was intrigued by the size of the mortuary. 50 odd spaces, as I recall, all nice Stainless Steel slid out stretcher type things.
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In the 70's I had to repair some machine or other in the morgue at UCH. Fascinating attention to detail in construction, Gorgeous green Minton tiles all over the walls and ceiling, curved some of them.
Saw the same place in the film "The man who never was" about the gruesomely named "Operation Mincemeat"
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>>the brand new Charing Cross hospital
>> in Fulham Palace Road
That's where Miss Z did a week of work experience with a surgeon before deciding that she wanted to go in to medicine. She was offered accommodation out near Wormwood Scrubs but I decided to shell out for the Premier Inn on Putney Bridge.
Last edited by: zippy on Sun 3 Jan 21 at 13:21
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>> The morgue is at capacity.
That's the next stage in the nightmare where the infrastructure for dealing with the deceased becomes overwhelmed.
Mass graves?
Lime pits?
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There's planning in place for such an event, as there was initially last year.
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Very good friend of mine is Chairman of a chain of Funeral Directors in south London. He is now in his 80's and retired but he still keeps an eye on the business.
By early May during the first wave last year he told me that they had carried out more funerals than all of 2019.
They were doing up to 12 funerals in one day at three different crematoria in the south east.
Several refrigerated containers were being bought in and fitted out to increase capacity at his depot.
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Carts? Bells? Crosses on doors?
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 4 Jan 21 at 02:32
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Mass graves?
Lime pits?
Soylent Green?
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I imagine they’ll just do what they did at the beginning of the year, which was to use refrigerated trailers. Fortunately demand for them for freight is lower in the winter, and they can be powered by mains hook-ups or their own diesel generators. I don’t expect it’ll be a major problem, though I’m sure will make headlines as it did last time. It seemed to be a very sensible solution to me!. Though, whether I’d want to eat strawberries transported in a recently decommissioned temporary morgue is another matter... ;)
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 4 Jan 21 at 02:33
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PeterS,
Did you have a plan B as the SA trip presumably never materialised ? My 10 day isolation over Christmas was ok. Kind neighbours dropped off left over turkey and ham, and another neighbour left emergency supplies of Schweppes on my doorstep.
I’m not feeling particularly confident that my Jet2 flight on 11/02 will go ahead. Or that Spain will allow me entry by then.
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We are going to start cancelling our March trip to Portugal later this week - hopefully negotiate a at least a change of date, ideally a refund, on the accommodation, move the flights and get refunds on the airport parking and car hire.
It just doesn't feel very responsible to go at the moment, for all kinds of reasons. I'm hoping the Sept bookings can stand (and of course Portugal aren't letting us in anyway right now!).
Last edited by: smokie on Mon 4 Jan 21 at 09:39
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Report on the radio this morning of Brits being sent back from Schipol. Travellers from non EU countries need 'good reason' and these folks had none.
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>> Report on the radio this morning of Brits being sent back from Schipol. Travellers from
>> non EU countries need 'good reason' and these folks had none.
Assuming they get there. Lots of reports of peeps being refused boarding onto planes to get anywhere in Europe from the UK.
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>> Assuming they get there. Lots of reports of peeps being refused boarding onto planes to
>> get anywhere in Europe from the UK.
Yep. Report in the paper yesterday re Spain. In that case the issue was correct paperwork for UK folks with Spanish equivalent of Settled Status.
Still, sovereign coastal state, own momey and laws etc......
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I never cease to be amazed at how dateless some people are, I'm surprised they don't need to be told to remember to breathe in and out.
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>> Still, sovereign coastal state, own momey and laws etc......
Control dear boy, Control.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 4 Jan 21 at 12:51
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>> PeterS,
>> Did you have a plan B as the SA trip presumably never materialised ? My
>> 10 day isolation over Christmas was ok. Kind neighbours dropped off left over turkey and
>> ham, and another neighbour left emergency supplies of Schweppes on my doorstep.
>>
>> I’m not feeling particularly confident that my Jet2 flight on 11/02 will go ahead. Or
>> that Spain will allow me entry by then.
>>
You’re right...I cancelled the SA trip on the morning of departure (Tuesday 22nd) as it all started kicking off on the Monday. I had a contingency route back via Doha with Qatar booked anyway, but things were changing so rapidly I didn’t think it’d be an enjoyable holiday if I’d gone. Fair play to BA, who refunded the flight (taxes and surcharges really, as it was booked with avios) same day, and issued a full voucher for the hotel and transfer I’d booked. If I’d been in tier 4 at the time they’d have given me a full cash refund, but I wasn’t and I’m happy enough with a voucher...it’ll be used. Avis car cancelled with no penalty, as was purple parking at Hatton Cross. Even the top-up battleface travel insurance (which added cover for travelling against FCO advice to the COVID cover provided by my annual policy) was refunded in full before Christmas.
I ended up staying at home, and had a couple of friends round for a late lunch and a few drinks ;)
Started the day with a lovely walk on Climping Beach...clear blue sky, low tide, no wind, calm as a millpond. I’d had a delivery of non perishables on the Monday anyway, and the shops in Chichester were well stocked and uncrowded so it was no trouble getting everything I wanted. New Year was spent in Berkshire with my brothers family...so all in all not bad. I’ve rebooked SA for June and, very speculatively, Malta for April. Let’s see what happens! I agree that Spain for leisure travel might not be happening anytime soon, regardless of the non-EU situation. That I think has been blown out of proportion...in normal times it’s easy enough to get into pretty much any country you’d want to go to with very little advance planning...and it’s easy enough for most nationalities to get into the EU as a tourist...often easier (and cheaper) than getting into the U.K.
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>> Started the day with a lovely walk on Climping Beach...clear blue sky, low tide, no
>> wind, calm as a millpond.
That where I took the pup and the old girl on xmas day. It was fantastic, as you say, clear blue sky, little wind, tide out (it just turned while we were there) gently rippling surf, even 3c warmer than back home in Surrey.
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>>
>> That where I took the pup and the old girl on xmas day. It was
>> fantastic, as you say, clear blue sky, little wind, tide out (it just turned while
>> we were there) gently rippling surf, even 3c warmer than back home in Surrey.
>>
Must have been there at a similar time...certainly saw a few people walking dogs! I parked at the West Beach car park at Littlehampton (LA to the locals...!) and walked along to Climping. As the car park at Climping seemed closed that was a good, albeit lucky, call. Must have left around 2ish I think.
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>> Must have been there at a similar time...certainly saw a few people walking dogs! I
>> parked at the West Beach car park at Littlehampton (LA to the locals...!) and walked
>> along to Climping. As the car park at Climping seemed closed that was a good,
>> albeit lucky, call. Must have left around 2ish I think.
Ditto here, same car park, same walk, two goldens - one small and one big. Arrived around 12 ish, left around 1.45. Did you see the Dutton Surf on the rope walk?
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 6 Jan 21 at 08:31
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Spoke too soon. As expected my Jet2 flight 11/02 was cancelled this afternoon. My plan A was to sell Barbie, fly to Spain mid January, second look at properties on my short list, return 3 or 4 months later.
Hope to fly out late February now. Ever the optimist!
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I read that this morning, surprising that many similar countries in Europe aren't really organised at all. I think the French government have only just (as in yesterday) started looking at places to do mass vaccinations.
At least this is one area the government seems to be be doing pretty well at so far.
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I see that a doc reckons quite a few will decline their Pfizer appointment to "wait for the English one"...
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-55579004
Really???
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"a doctor" would about sum up the weight of his opinion. I wonder if a doctor touted his opinion around the media or a journalist decided to rig a doctor and ask.
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>> "a doctor" would about sum up the weight of his opinion. I wonder if a
>> doctor touted his opinion around the media or a journalist decided to rig a doctor
>> and ask.
Might have been the 17th doctor he called.
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"Might have been the 17th doctor he called."
Being the BBC, they found a Labour-supporting, nationalist-sniffing doctor ...........
""People at risk of death in the depths of a pandemic. A lesson that Nationalism has consequences.""
That sentence has now been removed from a later edition of the page.
We are constantly being told that the NHS is strapped for cash - so why not have a preference for a vaccine that is significantly cheaper, and easier to handle?
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>> We are constantly being told that the NHS is strapped for cash - so why
>> not have a preference for a vaccine that is significantly cheaper, and easier to handle?
Volume and speed of required vacination. All the doses had to be pre bought,
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 7 Jan 21 at 21:24
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>>
>> Volume and speed of required vacination. All the doses had to be pre bought,
>>
I agree. This is one of those situations where one should cry: "cost and origin be dammed".
Last edited by: zippy on Thu 7 Jan 21 at 21:30
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>>"cost and origin be dammed".
I know some folk don't want the one originating from 'monkey poo', but I doubt if they know the origin of the alternative!
There's a town where a vaccination centre is the Sikh temple. I understand a large proportion of the Muslim population are refusing to go there. Unfortunate, as the other one seems to be a 'happy clappy' type religous centre. They were seemingly chosen for their large area and big car parks.
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>> There's a town where a vaccination centre is the Sikh temple. I understand a large
>> proportion of the Muslim population are refusing to go there.
Then they should go without. I have as much sympathy with that stupidity as I would if someone was refusing to go to a mosque.
Fidiots the world will be better without.
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Our local vaccination center is a hotel. The b***** bar and restaurant are closed though so you can't even turn up early and have a coffee.
What sort of planning is that!?
I blame Boris Johnson!
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We do understand the word 'preference', don't we.
e.g. I've a preference for GK IPA but, if none is available, I'll drink Abbot.
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>Being the BBC, they found a Labour-supporting, nationalist-sniffing doctor ...........
Being the BBC they already have him on speed-dial.
The Beeb has plenty of previous for wheeling out talking-heads they describe variously as 'an expert', 'a doctor' or 'a nurse' without making their audience aware that Mr Expert is also a union/socialist/Labour activist.
Not unique to the Beeb tho'. Like all other media pundits you have to work out the reason for them being there before listening to what they say.
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We have a choice of McLarens, or Epsom Racecourse.
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If there are idiots who want to turn down the vaccine because it is not the British one, they are at liberty to do so and accept the consequences. I will happily have whatever I am offered as soon as I am asked!
As to cost - each month the virus is at at large costs UK PLC economy around £20bn. The National Audit Office estimate the total cost of vaccinating the UK population at £12bn of which the "bare" vaccine cost is only a part.
Any delay to rollout will cost the contry far more than the difference in the cost of the vaccine.
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>We have a choice of McLarens, or Epsom Racecourse.
It'll be a race to get there then?
Last edited by: Kevin on Fri 8 Jan 21 at 07:54
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Someone made a good point today about the 'hidden population'. How will they be reached to vaccinate with them not being off radar, so to speak.
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>> Someone made a good point today about the 'hidden population'. How will they be reached
>> to vaccinate with them not being off radar, so to speak.
If they die, we wont notice. Being serious if they have managed thus far with assistance, medical or otherwise, they will be ok.
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Queen and Prince Philip have been jabbed:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55602007
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waste of time jabbing Phil the G, he'll be dead before 2021 is out CV or no CV.
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>> waste of time jabbing Phil the G, he'll be dead before 2021 is out CV
>> or no CV.
>>
In your deadpool for 2021?
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>>
>> In your deadpool for 2021?
>>
......and for all of the last 10 years.....
;-)
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>> >> waste of time jabbing Phil the G, he'll be dead before 2021 is out
>> CV
>> >> or no CV.
>> >>
>>
>> In your deadpool for 2021?
Yes, needs to be on the top of anyones pool.
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I guess one year you'll be right. I do remember plans in place 2003 in case he died, probably started early than that mind.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 9 Jan 21 at 20:56
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His was a name in our pub ‘ghoul pool ‘ 15 years ago.
Sadly that died a death, but a few of our 15 members, paying in £1 a week, made some good money out of somebody croaking. I think we eventually capped the winnings at £500.
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>> I guess one year you'll be right. I do remember plans in place 2003 in
>> case he died, probably started early than that mind.
Operation Forth Bridge.
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I'll take your word for it, I can't remember the OP name,it was a long time ago. Nothing I have to worry about now.
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Waste of 2/4 doses of vaccine
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Perhaps, but if you expect to get a dose I guess it must be reassuring for you to know that the bar is low.
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Heard from someone giving the jabs at a centre, the Pfizer is a PITA. The bottle needs to be inverted 10 times (no more and no less). An exactly measured liquid then needs to be added and then the bottle has to be inverted 10 times (no more no less). The paperwork then needs to be completed before the vaccine can be drawn out. I've also heard the syringe can't be 'tapped' to remove air bubbles, but that hasn't been confirmed.
They're grateful the Pfizer supplies are runningout and won't be refreshed for a few days, allowing them to move onto the Astra-Zeneca.
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"They're grateful the Pfizer supplies are running out and won't be refreshed for a few days, allowing them to move onto the Astra-Zeneca."
Astra-Zeneca - that wouldn't be the British one, would it?
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>> ...Swedish.... ;-)
Have we sold Oxford?
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...I think we've sold everything, haven't we. Isn't that why certain persons want to take back control?
Astra Zeneca is multinational*, but mostly British/Swedish.
*That was the future once, and still is for many, except the little Englanders.
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"Astra Zeneca is multinational*, but mostly British/Swedish."
That's quite correct; I worked for one of their competitors. Zeneca was formed in 1993, but then the story became somewhat convoluted as happened with most chemical companies. I left the industry after some 30 years in 2003 and thus I lost the thread.
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>> I left the industry after some 30 years in 2003 and thus I lost the thread.
>>
....aaah, that was when, was it....?
;-)
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"....aaah, that was when, was it....?"
Well ..... er ..... yes and no!
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A chap who lived next door to me 1983-93 worked for ICI, in the bit that was split off and called Zeneca IIRC.
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well as long as you didn't get the needle.
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As I begun my training ICI brought in an amazing revolutionary drug that eventually replaced the ageing induction agent Thiopentone.... they called it Diprivan (Propofol)... the white stuff given to you to send you to sleep.... often known as the 'milk of amnesia'.
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>> Waste of 2/4 doses of vaccine
At least it appears they waited their turn, although I doubt they had to wait outside for several hours like some has been reported.
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>> although I doubt they had to wait outside for several hours like some has been reported.
>>
...one has the Mistress of the Vaccine Queue to do that and keep one's place for one......
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On the briefing tonight, matt Hancock said 2.6m doses of the jab, which in itself wasn't too surprising, the bit that was was that this number is more than all of Europe combined.
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I’m not surprised...I read this over the weekend:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55575756
France managed a paltry 45k, and even Germany under 500k.
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Miss Z got her jab today. The Pfizer one. No odd reactions.
Administered by a retired GP, who was really nice apparently. Spending time to do it carefully and professionally.
There were people that didn’t turn up for their jabs and the staff were calling around for people to come in. It seems a number of doses were wasted which is a crying shame!
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Surprised she wasn't further up the list, she's about as front line as it gets.
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She was pretty much in the first tranches at this hospital.
The ITU team got it first.
She should have got it last week but was supposed to be on leave so I think this was the first time diaries matched up.
Last edited by: zippy on Mon 11 Jan 21 at 21:31
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Miss Z's jab has come up looking all angry and she's feeling a bit rough today.
She was told younger people have more of a reaction to it.
She reports that there are c5 times the patients suffering with covid than at the spring peak.
The hospital had several power cuts with the generators not kicking in and Miss Z and her colleagues abandoned what they were doing and rushed to ITU in case patients on ventilators needed "bagging" (manual ventilator). Luckily they were coping.
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I hope that Miss Z is feeling better today.
A retired GP friend has been recruited as a vaccinator at the local hospital. I asked him if he was using the Pfizer jab he replied .....
"I think that the Pfizer vaccine is certainly more suited to use in hospitals because of its demanding storage requirements. The vaccine has to be stored in a special refrigerator packed in dry ice at temperatures below -60 degrees centigrade until ready for use. The Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine is good for 6 months in a bog-standard vaccine fridge at temperatures of 2 to 8 degrees centigrade. Also, the Pfizer vaccine is very fragile and if it gets shaken during reconstitution you will end up with a very expensive vial of inactive saline!"
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As of yesterday, our local surgery had vaccinated all patients over the age of 85 and all local care home residents and staff.
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That's good, hope they are all as efficient.
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Sinovac: Brazil results show Chinese vaccine 50.4% effective
www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-55642648
Well, it's a bit more complex than that, but nonetheless surely significantly less effective than had been previously reported?
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The 50.4% figure is only true if you include very mild cases.
But Butantan stressed that the vaccine is 78% effective in preventing mild cases that needed treatment and 100% effective in staving off moderate to serious cases.
Those figures seem pretty impressive.
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I must have missed the bit previously where vaccines were advertised as x% effective if you exclude mild cases.
Clearly better than no vaccine though.
I repeat my words....
"Well, it's a bit more complex than that, but nonetheless surely significantly less effective than had been previously reported? "
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"I must have missed the bit previously where vaccines were advertised as x% effective if you exclude mild cases."
It seems likely that the original Chinese figures would have included mild cases but not those who displayed no symptons. The Brasilian figures seem to have included those without symptoms.
In effect it may well be that both figures are "correct". It shows the danger of comparing results without being absolutely sure your are comparing like with like
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Wed 13 Jan 21 at 16:46
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Chinese Covid-19 vaccine far less effective than initially claimed in Brazil, sparking concerns
edition.cnn.com/2021/01/13/asia/sinovac-covid-vaccine-efficacy-intl-hnk/index.html
This is quite a concern down this end of the world where several countries, Brazil being the largest, are/were relying on this vaccine.
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I said in another thread that these days my brain is sufficiently addled that I can't do simple sums anymore.
So in terms of the 50% effectiveness business, in the UK:
The first shot alone is apparently (broadly) 50% effective. The second makes it (broadly) 90% effective, say Pfizer.
Originally we were going for two shots three weeks apart. That's scenario one.
Now we are going instead for two shots 12 weeks apart instead. That's scenario two.
So:
Scenario one is (let's say to make the sums "easy"), 10 million people for 3 weeks at 50% effectiveness, followed by those 10 million people for 9 weeks at 90% effectiveness. So for the first three weeks, 5 million of those 10 million may still get covid. Then for the next nine weeks, only 1 million may get covid.
Scenario two is twice as many people inoculated, but only one shot. So 20 million people at large for 12 weeks at 50% effectiveness. So for the full 12 weeks, 10 million might still get covid.
Doesn't that mean that scenario one is six million still at some risk, whereas scenario two is ten million still at some risk, over the same twelve weeks?
I think I've overthought myself into a corner here!
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Personally, I take these % efficacy figures in the same way that I take car m.p.g. figures - i.e. perhaps as a bit of a guide.
It would take us, say, between 8-10 years to bring an agrochemical product to market from the initial screening stage; the final stages were spent identifying the best way that the product could be used in the field. You could guarantee that the moment the product hit the market - and sometimes before - some smartass would come along with some method of making it cheaper/mixing it with something else/splitting the dose etc.. And they were surprised when we told them that their ideas would need to be tested in the field before they could be approved for commercial use. Enter Tony Blair.
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>> The first shot alone is apparently (broadly) 50% effective. The second makes it (broadly) 90%
>> effective, say Pfizer.
>>
I am sure I have said this before, but may I recommend BBC Radio 4 'More or Less'. 'How effective is one dose of the vaccine'.
It is good listening at any time, but perhaps, especially now.
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qshd
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Missed the edit. (Why do we have a 5 minute time limit?)
And of course - 'How to Vaccinate the World'.
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000py6s
The facts. Just the facts. Warm, cuddly facts.
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Our GP practice group called on the 13th offering us an appointment for yesterday. We attended and were treated as one, being vaccinated within seconds of each other. All very well organised, there were at least as many staff members on duty as the patients in the queue (about 20). I estimated that a third of the patients were front line health workers (as having to fill in forms) and two thirds the elderly. My jabbed arm is stiff this morning if raised, otherwise no ill effects.
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Which vaccine did you have, Ambo?
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Fri 15 Jan 21 at 10:08
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We still have to wait 10-15 minutes post-jab plus no driving for at least a further 30 minutes, I could see this being one of the limiting factors for speedy mass delivery in the vaccine hubs.
Do you which make you received?
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"COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 concentrate for solution for injection". We were made to wait 15 minutes before leaving. We used taxis but in any case did not feel drowsy.
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Phone call from GP surgery on Tuesday offering me a jab the next day. Short wait at the surgery and was asked a few health questions before a dose of Oxford/Astra Zenica was administered. Given a record card to keep with me and told to wait 15 minutes before driving. Mild flu like symptoms the next day which disappeared after a couple of hours.
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>> >> The first shot alone is apparently (broadly) 50% effective. The second makes it (broadly)
90% effective, say Pfizer.
>>
My medic daughter has just had her second Pfizer jab.
Many of her lot are still contracting Covid
Several reports of staff getting a second Covid. It is anecdotal but still a little concerning.
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Apparently the Brazilian is getting people twice. Can't remember where I read it but I'm treating it as hearsay. (It went on that Brazil was thought to be the herd immunity example as 75% pf people caught it first time round)
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>>(It went on that Brazil was thought to be the herd immunity example as 75% of people caught it first time round
What on earth were you reading?
Brazil has a population of 220m. Officially 8m people have had COVID-19, so that's about 4%.
Now, Brazilian figures are not the greatest, but even so from 4% to 75% is one hell of a very unlikely jump.
As for re-infection then they have one that they say is confirmed and 58 suspected. The one confirmed is a middle aged health exec who purportedly caught it in May or so. She then caught the [not very] 'new' variant in October. As I understand she was diagnosed with the virus in May, *not* tested and she recovered easily having taken prednisone. I take prednisone, sounds like b******* to me
The current publicity is a panic without evidence because there is a fear that there is something different about the variant. Mostly because a scientist said that "it is possible that...". Which of course it is. Similarly, "it is possible that" the lizard-people exist, Smurf has a brain and aliens are amongst us.
It doesn't mean that it is, or even that there is any evidence that it is.
I doubt it. It's been in the country for 3 months and Brazil's problems are down to their covid-denying President who has about the same amount of brainpower and situational as a blue moron.
And *AGAIN* they say that there is no evidence that it is any more dangerous.
Scientists keep saying things like, we need to research to see, it is possible that, it could cause, etc. etc. and the worthless media immediately leap on it and wreak chaos amongst those who don't read between the lines.
That said, I don't think anybody believes that you will get life time immunity from a previous infection and the period of time that you are "safe" will vary between people.
It is notable that *ALL* variants have been detected in places where they do a great deal of analysis, there are almost certainly a gazillion other variants around that haven't been detected yet and there will continue to be more and more as long as the virus is this active.
As vaccination slows down the incidence, then it will also slow down the potential for mutation.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 15 Jan 21 at 13:14
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It worth noting that
1 All viruses mutate hence the need for a new flu vaccine most years
2 Effective mutations by the virus as a general rule make the disease less deadly but more infectious. Killing its host is not beneficial to the virus and is selected against.
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OK so I went back to the source which the person quoted re the 75%. It's 75% of the population of one city. Manaus (pop 2.2m according to Wikipedia).
That article does include the line "In Manaus, the study has been received with skepticism by the scientific and medical communities" but they would say that (though there is fairly strong evidence that 75% is overcooking it).
So apols for fake news!!!
www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/study-estimates-76-percent-of-brazilian-city-exposed-to-sars-cov-2-68272
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 15 Jan 21 at 15:54
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Firstly using phrases like "but they would say that" is exactly how conspiracy theorists deal with stuff they don't want to believe.
It is also worth mentioning that an early summary of the study was pre-released in SEPTEMBER and stated that it had been 44% in May and at 66% infection by June herd immunity ad been achieved.
Another study at that time suggested 14%.
So how did that work out for Manaus?
www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/study-estimates-76-percent-of-brazilian-city-exposed-to-sars-cov-2-68272
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This is interesting, though a bit dry....
www.bbc.com/future/article/20210114-covid-19-how-effective-is-a-single-vaccine-dose
An excerpt as a taster...
"Pfizer....
The second estimate comes from the UK's Vaccine Committee, the JCVI, who decided to calculate the efficacy of the vaccine differently. Instead of using all the data on the number of infections, including from days when the first dose hadn't yet started to work, they only looked at days 15-21. Using this method, the efficacy of the vaccine jumps up to 89%, because it's not being diluted by the relatively high number of infections before the vaccine begins to have an effect. Taking things even further and only looking at the first seven days after the second dose (days 21-28) – because the second dose might not have kicked in yet by then – it's 92%.
However, these calculations are controversial.
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This childish obsession many people have with Christmas has come home to roost. See granny at Christmas, bury her in January.
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I have that childish obsession. I love Christmas. Not enough to be stupid with other people's health, but I love it.
It's not the same in the sun.
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>> Not enough to be stupid with other
>> people's health, but I love it.
>>
>>
That's the key phrase.
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>> It's not the same in the sun.
That's really peeing me off, having not seen the sun all week and enduring three solid days of mizzle.
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>> >> It's not the same in the sun.
>>
>> That's really peeing me off, having not seen the sun all week and enduring three
>> solid days of mizzle.
>>
According to the MY Weather App we are expecting to see a cloud in the afternoon of the 21st though it will be "Generally blue skies". The next rain however is not expected until March sometime.
I don't remember the last time it rained, early November I think.
On the other hand you've got >5% vaccinated and we've got <0.1% so I know where I'd rather be.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 15 Jan 21 at 22:35
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>>
>> On the other hand you've got >5% vaccinated and we've got <0.1% so I know
>> where I'd rather be.
>>
...New Zealand....?
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So *that's* why my Father always used to say "scorchio". I didn't know.
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>> So *that's* why my Father always used to say "scorchio". I didn't know.
>>
You never watched The Fast Show? I like to think that in my dotage I’ll be like the old Duke of Wybourne, sat by the fire, glass of alcohol to hand.
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No, I've never seen the Fast Show. A combination of often not in the country and very rarely having any interest in television.
I didn't know who the Spice Girls were until 5 years after they weren't.
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>>
>> I didn't know who the Spice Girls were until 5 years after they weren't.
>>
.....every cloud......... etc.
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>> No, I've never seen the Fast Show. A combination of often not in the country
>> and very rarely having any interest in television.
>>
My dotage appears to have arrived early. The character I was thinking of was Rowley Birkin, the old drunk who sits by the fire recounting past experiences, mostly incomprehensible.
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>> mostly incomprehensible.
I find The Fast Show interesting in the way they clearly just picked simple sentences and deliberately made catchphrases out of them by dint of simple repetition weekly. In themselves they aren't funny at all, but fans will know what you mean if you say
...extraordinarily long neck...
..this week I have chiefly been eating yoghurt...
..come on, come on!...
...well, I've got to attend to the drainage in the lower field, sir...
...have you seen it? Have you seen it?...
...Nice!!!...
..which was nice......
...scorchio....
If you have never seen it then the above are totally meaningless.
None of these are very funny even in the show. The pleasure comes from knowing the line is coming up.
It's an odd one.
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Isn't that the same will all catchphrases? Therere is nothing fundamentally funny about "Don't panic", "I shall say this only once" or "I have a cunning plan" for example
It's the repetitioni and the shared recognition with others that makes them funny.
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I think your examples when first delivered, were funny lines. I think most of the Fast Show ones were just baffling, until repeated fifteen times.
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According to "Our World in Data" the UK has now vaccinated 5.42% of the population.
Pretty well done, whether or not Keir Starmer and the Daily Mail approve. Not sure BJ should be claiming much credit for it though.
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Yes, somehow we seem to have vaccinated around 10 times more than the world average at this stage (% basis) which is impressive. Most of Europe is below the world average. A brexit positive at last!! We were told that leaving the EU would put us in a worse position and wouldn’t have access to enough vaccine... I believe we’ve got 360 million doses available to us this year...
The rollout seems to be going pretty well. If they genuinely can get al the over 50s done by the end of March then they deserve recognition for that - I thought it’d be Q3 before they got that stage. Sure, it’s not got a lot do with Boris, other than his governments approach of winging it, sorry, adapting dynamically to a changing situation and ordering as much as it could of what it could as soon as it could seems to have paid off. All while the EU was trying to get agreement from its members on how much of what to order. And still people complain we are paying more than some other countries. Surely cost is not really the issue...yes, a few Eurocents saving on 360 million doses is a few million pounds, and maybe tens of millions, but really, is that worth complaining about? The Germans I see broke rank with the EU and ordered what they wanted anyway...
It’s a little unfair to not give credit for the things that have worked while lambasting them for what hasn’t, but it was ever thus. Good news doesn’t make headlines :)
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>>It's a little unfair to not give credit for the things that have worked while lambasting them for what hasn't,
It's balanced by the politicians claiming credit for everything that goes well and denying involvement in anything that does not.
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p.s. I wonder, though it's not really important, I wonder how much their a*** was saved by huge supplies of a convenient vaccine from just up the road.
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Ooops..a correction on my part. We’ve secured access to 367 million doses apparently, though so far only 3 of the 7 vaccines ordered have been approved. 100 million are of the AstraZeneca one, 40 million Pfizer and 17 million Modena. So the orders for the Oxford one have certainly enabled us to be in the position we are...and without it we’d only be able vaccinate half the population. Though of course other vaccines are likely to be approved over the coming weeks I guess? And no one has enough to vaccinate their whole population without the AZ one, so we’re in a similar position to the rest of the world in that respect.
Only part of the success of the UKs rollout when compared to our neighbours is down to how much we ordered and how early though as far as I can see. The biggest factor must be the shift from second dose after 2 or 3 weeks to after 12 weeks. We’ve also got a more efficient network (some 1,500 locations already) of vaccination centres, and, believe it or not, a population more willing to be vaccinated. Take France as a comparison - you need a consultation with a doctor 5 days before you’re given the vaccine. And around half the population are against being vaccinated anyway. Germany doesn’t have enough vaccine to go round, and many vaccination centres aren’t yet open. Only a quarter of the population are anti vax though!
The press, and the Labour Party, will say that we should be quicker, and vaccinating 24/7. But I suspect that’ll just mean that the rate of vaccination (already third best in the world let’s not forget) will get out of synch with the rate at which the vaccine is delivered, and we’d come to a crashing halt when supplies ran out leading to failure as the second dose ends up far later than intended. Basic supply chain stuff... I’m also not sure there’s enough appetite for people to be vaccinated 24/7. Of course they’ll say they do when asked. But I’d put money on if it was organised that there’d be a huge number of no-shows and wasted vaccine. No shows are already causing some waste, but a lot of its it’s being mopped up by offering the vaccine to non-qualifying (per the plan) but available candidates. The opportunity to do that at 2 in the morning is somewhat limited ;)
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I thought I read the other day they were going to offer 24x7 but the overnight would be primarily front line people rather than oldies.
I wonder how they'd define front line? It's a massive amount of roles in my view - all the obvious, plus all the people involved in the food chain (incl pickers, packers, bakers and makers, delivery drivers, warehouse people), many who provide public services (e.g. waste collection and processing, post delivery, sorters, key maintenance workers (utilities etc) - and of course all the teams needed to keep them operational etc etc - the list seems pretty endless! I'm sure that some would argue that social media influencers and nail bar staff play an important role for some!
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>> I thought I read the other day they were going to offer 24x7 but the
>> overnight would be primarily front line people rather than oldies.
I would think the focus would be on making full use of the capacity of current and planned centres during the day first and making sure they have enough vaccine.
If that's then reached, you could look into it. But I think it's one of those things things that looks seductively simple and an easy win but when you dig into it it's not.
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"The press, and the Labour Party, will say that we should be quicker, and vaccinating 24/7"
24/7 would be a good idea if you had twice the number of vaccinators operating in shifts. I asked my retired GP friend how he was getting on, having just competed his first week. He said "The vaccination sessions are pretty intensive. On Thursday I worked from 9.00am to 7.30pm and vaccinated well over 100 patients with only one 15 minute break. However, this is the only way we are going to be able to defeat this dreadful virus. I'm back at the hospital on Monday for another long session. However, it's nice to be back in harness once again."
My friend is a very public-spirited chap, but I can't imagine that he'll want to keep going all night as well.
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They are training more people to do it...
My daughter (already qualified to give jabs) completed the training yesterday for vaccine jabs. But she has a day job (mental health nurse) but I expect would appreciate an opportunity to earn some extra.
Re 24 x 7 I'm not sure how firm or realistic the proposal was but at least they are looking at options - something they have been known to be criticised for not doing in the past.
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>> I worked from 9.00am to 7.30pm and vaccinated well over 100 patients with only one 15 minute break.
He's got a better bladder than me.
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>> >> I worked from 9.00am to 7.30pm and vaccinated well over 100 patients with only
>> one 15 minute break.
>>
>> He's got a better bladder than me.
>>
Do you do your pelvic floor exercises?
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> while the EU was
>> trying to get agreement from its members on how much of what to order. And
>> still people complain we are paying more than some other countries. Surely cost is not
>> really the issue...yes, a few Eurocents saving on 360 million doses is a few million
>> pounds, and maybe tens of millions, but really, is that worth complaining about? The Germans
>> I see broke rank with the EU and ordered what they wanted anyway...
I don't think the spectator is particularly pro EU so not necessarily balanced however it gives the impression that the vaccine program in the EU is rapidly turning into a political crisis.
www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-eu-s-vaccine-shambles-is-turning-into-a-re-run-of-the-euro-crisis
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I guess that, whereas having a very large population in a small land mass makes for rapid uncontrolled virus spread, Vacinating same quickly and on mass becomes very much easier logistically speaking
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24/7 vaccination isn't required.
The rate-limiting step is vaccine supply, not vaccinators.
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>> I guess that, whereas having a very large population in a small land mass makes
>> for rapid uncontrolled virus spread, Vacinating same quickly and on mass becomes very much easier
>> logistically speaking
>>
That has almost certainly helped as well, and might explain why Scotland and Wales are struggling to vaccinate at the same rate.
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>> I guess that, whereas having a very large population in a small land mass makes
>> for rapid uncontrolled virus spread, Vacinating same quickly and on mass becomes very much easier
>> logistically speaking
>>
It's a part of it, however Belgium and Holland have similar population density and aren't doing particularly well.
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I think they are heavily dependent on the Pfizer vaccine to start with, production of which is delayed slightly as they reconfigure manufacturing to ramp up capacity. The EU says that they've been let down by the supplier. BioNtech say that the orders were not scheduled to be delivered yet... the Eu has placed orders with 7 suppliers in total, but not far as I know, the AZ onne, So only Pfizer and Moderna are licensed at the moment. Whether the lack of orders for the AZ one is based on science, hubris or simply not getting orders in early enough I don’t know.
Based on very limited data points from my friends on the mainland, I don’t think it’s a widespread political crisis. The Dutch are rightly livid (they started vaccinating a month after we did) but the Germans seem broadly ok with the vaccination programme, though of of course they’ve bucked the system! The major noise and unrest seems to be from the countries at the fringes of the EU, and I don’t suppose France or Germany will concern themselves too much with that
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Didn't I read that the entire Dutch government had resigned yesterday, not over anything Covid related?
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You did...something to do with wrongly accusing large numbers of people of benefit fraud. If only our politicians had that level of integrity...
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>> You did...something to do with wrongly accusing large numbers of people of benefit fraud. If
>> only our politicians had that level of integrity...
Indeed, we had something similar when an outfit called Concentrix were contracted to check Tax Credit Claims.
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>> If only our politicians had that level of integrity...
>>
...colour me cynical if you wish, but with the background of the prime instigator (previously in coalition, but currently in opposition) resigning, the country all but shut down, the election only 8 weeks away (I believe parliament was in any case imminently to be dissolved in preparation) and a lead in the polls for Rutte that means he is likely to lead the next coalition Government anyway, it looks at best a gesture, and at worst cynical politicking.
If he (and the rest of the cabinet) announced they weren't going to stand for re-election, then it would be a rather different picture.
Valid use of "politicians" and "integrity" in the same sentence without the addition of "lack of", though not always impossible, certainly requires a bit of research first.
;-)
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Interestingly at yesterday's daily briefing Boris was asked a question about the vaccine roll-out, if I heard it correctly he was asked that there is a rumour that when the programme got the under 50's it might stop or be scaled back as the majority of the vulnerable population would have been covered.... in true Boris language he did confirm or deny which to me usually means that there is some level of truth in the statement.
Not sure where we are with the vaccine being approved for children yet or even if they are on the full list to be vaccinated?
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>> Interestingly at yesterday's daily briefing Boris was asked a question about the vaccine roll-out, if
>> I heard it correctly he was asked that there is a rumour that when the
>> programme got the under 50's it might stop or be scaled back as the majority
>> of the vulnerable population would have been covered.... in true Boris language he did confirm
>> or deny which to me usually means that there is some level of truth in
>> the statement.
It wouldn't make sense to stop if herd immunity is the objective, which is the usual vaccine strategy.
More likely that Johnson, being put on the spot, just blustered around it as usual.
My assessment of him is that he can't make a decision on anything until he absolutely has to. I recognise that tendency in my myself - I like all the data, and then some more, and then time to reconsider to get things right. But I recognise that delaying decisions can mean the options dramatically reduce, sometimes to the point where there is only one left. I think that problem has afflicted both Brexit and the pandemic response.
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>>My assessment of him is that he can't make a decision on anything until he absolutely has to
He won't make a decision until the alternative path has become discredited or obviously wrong so that his direction cannot be proven wrong.
Hence why he is typically berated for doing things late rather than for actually doing them.
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>> Not sure where we are with the vaccine being approved for children yet or even
>> if they are on the full list to be vaccinated?
If CV does not affect them much, then they are just carriers. If their parents and grandparents (who can be affected) are vaccinated, then there is no reason to vaccinate them. And the kids will be the upcoming immune herd.
Assuming that is, there are no longer term as yet unknown effects of earlier infection.
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> Based on very limited data points from my friends on the mainland, I don’t think
>> it’s a widespread political crisis. The Dutch are rightly livid (they started vaccinating a month
>> after we did) but the Germans seem broadly ok with the vaccination programme, though of
>> of course they’ve bucked the system! The major noise and unrest seems to be from
>> the countries at the fringes of the EU, and I don’t suppose France or Germany
>> will concern themselves too much with that
Just my impression from bits and bobs I've read, I would imagine that the political pressure will increase in the short due to the slowing down in the delivery of the vaccine in the short term to build up capacity.
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I'd like to see the "No shows" shoved right to the back of the queue unless they have a good reason for not turning up, including an explanation of why they couldn't be bothered to pick up the phone so someone else could have taken their place.
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I wonder what % of no shows there are on a daily basis? Anyone know?
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>> I'd like to see the "No shows" shoved right to the back of the queue
>> unless they have a good reason for not turning up, including an explanation of why
>> they couldn't be bothered to pick up the phone so someone else could have taken
>> their place.
>>
My guess, and it’s a pure guess, is that in absolute terms the number of no-shows across the country is quite high, but that as a % of vaccinations it’s pretty low. I’d also further guess than most of the no-shows are down to administrative issues...patients already in hospital for something else, no ‘phone number for patient, letters not delivered or patient already dead. Then there’s those that called to reschedule but couldn’t get through... People unable to get to the vaccination centre is probably high up on the list of reasons as well - no public transport, or an unwillingness to use it. But as long as the doses get used, I can’t get too worked up about no-shows. Does it matter that much if it’s not on those it was intended for? Maybe they should overbook, like a hotel or airline, on the basis of expected no-shows. Maybe they already do - no idea!
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Equally as a guess, I would think no shows are low. As opposed to those with a valid reason.
Two reasons for that;
Look at who is being vaccinated. Old people and people with other conditions. Exactly the people who will have genuine difficulty with forward scheduled appointments
Secondly, if there was a mass of irresponsible no shows the daily mail and the BBC would have it front and centre with interviews.
And they don't. They are left with implication and insinuation.
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Does anyone know if you go online and book a slot (yes, I know that wouldn't suit some of the oldies!) or whether you just get allocated one?
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You will get a letter when its your turn. You then go to the booking site below to make an appointment
www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination/
They are currently vaccinating the over eighties
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 16 Jan 21 at 17:09
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And as of today, 4 million doses administered, with 3.6m vaccinated (balance being those who’ve had a second dose). 324k vaccinated today, so easily 2 million a week and rising
coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
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Impressive, let's hope they can sustain that. We've a lot to be grateful for amongst all the moaning and criticism.
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There’s about 200 more pharmacy vaccination sites due to come on line (in a phased way) over the next couple of weeks, and the full impact of the additional 200 GP sites added at the end of this week so I’d expect to see a continued increase in daily vaccinations for the next few weeks at least. A week ago we were doing 200k vaccinations a day, it’s now more than 50% higher.
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>>We've a lot to be grateful for amongst all the moaning and criticism.
Chile (Pop. 19.4m) has vaccinated 19,000 people and is lauding its own progress. FFS.
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That’s worse than Bulgaria, the worst performing country in the EU at 0.25% of the population vaccinated and 17k vaccinations done. We are at 5.4%, with the best ‘big’ EU countries at 1.6% (Spain and Italy). Germany is at 1.1% and France 0.6%. Those are all 14 Jan numbers, plus or minus a day or two in most cases. Though we shouldn’t be complacent...Israel has done 23%...
Last edited by: PeterS on Sat 16 Jan 21 at 18:34
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>> >>We've a lot to be grateful for amongst all the moaning and criticism.
>>
>> Chile (Pop. 19.4m) has vaccinated 19,000 people and is lauding its own progress. FFS.
>>
What's going on, I'm guessing it's a lack of supply? I think you mentioned normally Chile is pretty organised at vaccination programs.
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I don't know. I hear different things.
I suspect that much as they have ordered/reserved (whatever is the term) 65m doses of 4 vaccines they simply did it late and so are some way down the list.
I was with some Ministers last week and they mentioned that they are keeping a deliberately low profile on vaccinations because they have intelligence that various gangs are planning to steal them. This seems unlikely to me, but I can't think why they'd say if it it is untrue.
As I understand it they have just (Weds or Thurs) recieved 90,000 Pfizer doses on top of two deliveries of 10,000 at the end of December. Obviously that's not very many, but it makes the 19,000 vaccinations given so far even more pathetic.
Certainly their issue is not the infrastructure, with the possible exception of difficulties refrigerating outside Santiago.
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This is from MinSal (Ministry of Health). It's in Spanish so you'll need to stick it through Google Translate.
The tone of triumph and optimism is strange given the level of achievement and endeavour.
www.minsal.cl/subsecretaria-paula-daza-recibe-tercer-y-mas-grande-cargamento-de-vacunas-contra-el-covid-19/
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 16 Jan 21 at 19:31
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Thanks do you know which vaccines chile has ordered?
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From memory 10m Pfizer, 10m AZ and 50m Sinovac. Pop 19.4m so 40m doses plus wastage required for 100%.
Only Pfizer is currently delivering with a total of 250,000 by end of Jan. Sinovac to start delivering end of Jan. I don't remember, if I ever knew, the AZ delivery plan.
Chunks of the Chilean population believe that the vaccine is either a communist or at least left wing plot or only needed as a result of the Government's invention of COVID as a method of stopping the riots and anyway is all part of a plan where a loose coalition of shadowy Left Wing groups is plotting to overthrow Chile.
They variously believe it is unsafe, being tested on them, unnecessary, designed to kill or subdue them.
They make t***s like Smurf look almost educated.
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Apparently it is 60m Sinovac that Chile has ordered to be delivered over three years - I don 't know why the three years, I guess that means they're figuring on on a lot less than 100% take up.
I think this must be down to the infrastructure problems Chile would face in distributing Pfizer and also reflects late ordering.
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Not the most bizarre conspiracy theory I've heard today...
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 16 Jan 21 at 21:21
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>>Not the most bizarre conspiracy theory I've heard today...
There ought to be an award each year. Kind of like the Conspiracy Theorist version of The Darwin Awards.
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>>
>> There ought to be an award each year. Kind of like the Conspiracy Theorist version
>> of The Darwin Awards.
>>
....we could call them the "Zippies".....
;-)
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>> >>Not the most bizarre conspiracy theory I've heard today...
>>
>> There ought to be an award each year. Kind of like the Conspiracy Theorist version
>> of The Darwin Awards.
>>
Here's a good early entry.
www.news.com.au/world/north-america/joe-biden-is-actually-john-f-kennedy-jr-in-a-mask-say-qanon-conspiracy-theorists/news-story/526fa75a9fb542039cdd6007065d314d
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>> And as of today, 4 million doses administered, with 3.6m vaccinated (balance being those who’ve
>> had a second dose). 324k vaccinated today, so easily 2 million a week and rising
>>
>> coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
>>
I think that leaves 9m more in the 4 groups to get done by mid February. I would say at the current rate its doable, depending on the rate of supply of the vaccine.
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AZ alone are delivering 2 million doses a week and rising, and we’ve probably got 2 or 3 weeks worth in stock. I think we’ll be fine...the plan seems joined up for a change :)
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It does look to be going well at the moment.
Where did you see the figures for amounts delivered, I thought the gov wasn't going to announce the expected delivery figures so as to stop putting too much public pressure on the manufacturers.
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>> It does look to be going well at the moment.
>>
>> Where did you see the figures for amounts delivered, I thought the gov wasn't going
>> to announce the expected delivery figures so as to stop putting too much public pressure
>> on the manufacturers.
>>
Released by AZ , albeit according to the independent. I think I heard it on CNN though.
www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-vaccine-uk-astrazeneca-b1786684.html
Sky published a 4 million doses delivered article in the first week of January, but I can’t recall when the AZ vaccine was approved so not sure how many weeks worth that was.
news.sky.com/story/covid-19-almost-3-5-million-uk-vaccines-held-up-by-regulator-12180185
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>> You will get a letter when its your turn. You then go to the booking
>> site below to make an appointment
>>
>> www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination/
>>
>> They are currently vaccinating the over eighties
>>
I/we got a phone call to ask if we could make a certain date and time. No written communication.
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>> I/we got a phone call to ask if we could make a certain date and
>> time. No written communication.
I expect the detail of how one is called will vary depending on what those managing the summonsing process have decided will work best in their area. What works in an urban area may be sub optimal in a group of villages.
The point though is don't call us, we'll call you. Given the messages distributed by SM and the announcement I got phoning the doctor for Codeine after my back 'went' this week it seems surgeries are in danger of being overwhelmed with 'when is it my turn' inquiries.
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Coronavirus Vaccine - Volume 2 - sooty123
