***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 27 *****
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Ongoing debate.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Nov 20 at 10:42
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Here in sunny Portugal the govt has moved the level to Calamity, which is as high as it goes. I don't think it will make much difference to my hols although they are going to look at altering a law so you have to wear a mask when out in the street (quite a few here do anyway).
The Algarve is the safer part of Portugal and we are still not really doing anything more risky than we'd be doing at home. No beach in Wokingham but the one here is pretty empty, especially on the weekdays. We're thinking we might eat out one evening this week but if we arrive somewhere and don't like the vibe we just won't bother. We've already out one of our favourite beach bars off limits as the tables weren't very well distanced.
We've been walking most days but have been put off the countryside a bit as I was very close to being savaged by a loose and rather large and aggressive dog last week - it snarled and barked at me right close up (i meant within two feet) for what felt like 5 minutes but was certainly at least minute. I fell at one point when backing off and I thought my days were numbered. The owners came along and it wouldn't even obey their command initially, then the woman had the absolute cheek to say I had made it worse. I was already literally shocked into silence (and I really don't frighten easily) so didn't argue back. (Remember I asked in March what action to take if it happened, following close encounters with other mutts while on walks...).
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>>Remember I asked in March what action to take if it happened, following close encounters with >> other mutts while on walks...).
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I don't remember, but I may well have said 'buy one of these'.
www.amazon.co.uk/Dog-Dazer-II-Ultrasonic-Deterrent/dp/B000IBRI2Y
Did I, and did you?
45 quid now!!
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Too late for the edit.
It's like deja vu, all over again, again!
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=27670&m=602864&v=e
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>> 45 quid now!!
Did you use it? What did you think of it?
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 15 Oct 20 at 10:48
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You did, and I didn't. Wish I had!! :-(
I'm short of Christmas present request ideas this year, so maybe that's one.
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Some owners train their gods to be as nasty as possible for guard duties. When we lived in Tenerife, our apartment used to look out over the roof of a cash-and-carry place (where I used to get my wheat beer) They had a ferocious Canarian Mastiff chained up on the roof all day (from a pup!) and used to let it loose at night.
I teased it one day (as you would) through the high gates - he did his job okay!!
Bit of advice I was given when I picked up a GSD (with issues!) from a rescue centre back in the day was:
KEEP YA HANDS IN YA POCKETS AND DON'T LOOK 'IM IN THE EYE ... nuff sed.
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On a positive note - nobody has died of 'old age' since March.
:)
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The good people of Esher - and elsewhere - can't travel to Wales from Saturday?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54551596
Well, I mean!
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>> The good people of Esher - and elsewhere - can't travel to Wales from Saturday?
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54551596
>>
>> Well, I mean!
Yeah well, Us `Runnymede" folks alway knew you Elmbridge wallah's were a bit iffy. Lucy that as I have just come back from Wales today, and planning to go back next week to pick up the new puppy.
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>> I have just come back from Wales today, and planning to go back
>> next week to pick up the new puppy.
>>
Or maybe not. The Welsh Assembly are expected to announce a two week lockdown on Monday.
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>> Or maybe not. The Welsh Assembly are expected to announce a two week lockdown on
>> Monday.
The Hedllu cant patrol every back road.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 17 Oct 20 at 21:17
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Have it sent by DPD.
Dozy puppy dog
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there is nowt dozy about my new pup.
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>>The Hedllu cant patrol every back road.
Indeed, though it can be tricky to work out which ones they are and which they are not.
Do UK registrations numbers still have any geographic significance?
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>>Do UK registrations numbers still have any geographic significance?
Yes*. I suspect Zed's "camouflage green" Bimmer might be able to sneak past though.
* www.newreg.co.uk/dvla-number-plate-identifiers/
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>>
>>
>> Do UK registrations numbers still have any geographic significance?
>>
They do, and it is much easier to work out than it used to be. In any case, a quick check of the number will instantly sow the registered keepers address.
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Yes but no!
My new car starts EF as it was registered in Essex but I'm in London/Kent boarder, surely the way cars are bought now means you couldn't use it as a way of restricting movement.
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The local prefix in Northants is K but that also extends to Milton Keynes and Bedfordshire. Walk around a local car park, or glance round our road and whilst K reggies predominate there are plenty of others.
Miss B and her husband live in locked down Flint. Their cars are W (bought when they lived in Plymouth) and D - over the border in Cheshire/Deeside. The Lad is in tier 3 Liverpool but his car hails from N London (LS) and is still registered in Northants.
He has been reminded that now he has his own place there he should change it but, like imprecations to check his oil, it's in one ear/out the other.
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The camo machine has a personal plat, so carries an Essex registration of early 80s vintage, but that carries no weight these days, its all about ANPR. ANPR will reveal a registered keeper from a tier 1 risk area. IF the plate gets zapped.
Hopefully it will be a 35 minute dash into forbidden dragon country, and a 35 minute dash back to the country where they "have taken back control"
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Oh if there is a God someone will catch it on CCTV and put it on YouTube.....
"Grumpy git busted smuggling dogs in lock down by 19yr old copper".
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Hope the pup P***es on his uniform and chews his tetra radio
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As Dunc is now in a high risk area and can't travel, shouldn't he be banned from coming here? Don't want him spreading his virus to our computers.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 17 Oct 20 at 10:36
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Has anybody got a bell they could lend me? I could ring it before i start typing.
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Unless you're in a COVID hotspot, there's no restriction (atm) on you entering Wales. Look out for farmers on the back roads though, they're not taking kindly to incomers these days
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>Look out for farmers on the back roads though, they're not taking kindly to incomers these days.
He just needs to tell them he's picking up a new four-legged furry companion ;-)
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>>
>> He just needs to tell them he's picking up a new four-legged furry companion ;-)
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....not a good gambit in a Welsh sheep-farming area.....
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>> Unless you're in a COVID hotspot, there's no restriction (atm) on you entering Wales.
I knows.
(the new puppy is called Nessa)
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So total Welsh lockdown on Friday, collecting pup Wednesday! Phew that was close.
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NoFM mentioned in the previous volume the British need for rules etc.
We're currently on a Caravan and Moho Club site in Derbyshire.
Last time we were out in the caravan was in France. The loos/showers etc were open as normal. Signs explained masks were required and reminded us of social distancing albeit their requirement is 1 metre not 2. There was a one way system and queueing markings but in practice they were not needed. It worked.
Here, in a much larger facility, only 3 of 6 WC cubicles are in use, the rest are taped shut. Only one of 4 urinals is available (though all continue to flush at regular intervals). Only one in three shower cubicles are available. Although there are facilities for around 10 people only four are permitted at one time. In order to control the numbers you're given a wristband at check in with your pitch number on it. There are four pegs outside, you leave your band when you go in and collect it on exit. If four pegs are occupied then you wait in the cold....
I'm already on my second band as when I went outside after using the loo somebody had walked off with the wrong one.
The club loves rules about how you pitch, leaving fire breaks between units (but you park your car in the firebreak!!) etc etc. I think however a lot of this is driven by the 'Covid Safe' accreditation they need to remain open.
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>The club loves rules
I remember someone who was a caravan club member, the Caravan Club would give French Local government a run for it's money.
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>> There are four pegs outside, you leave your band when you go in
>> and collect it on exit. If four pegs are occupied then you wait in the
>> cold....
>>
...you've obviously not worked out that you can leave your band permanently on the hook, and then jump any queue....
;-)
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My cycling group - CTC, although that name is now out of date, we have been for 3 or 4 years now Cycling UK. We are now a charity. Not happy, but that's another story and what's new about me not being happy?
Because Covid all of our breaks - elevenses, lunch and tea must now be taken outdoors. We are just coming into the time of year when it's a bit too cold and/or wet to sit outside. So, I probably won't bother.
The annual sub is going up from £30.50, for over 65, to £48, no discount for age, the only discount is if you are on Pension Credit. So, coupled with the sit outside thing, I probably won't renew.
Just a grumble.
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Your caravan has no loo or shower? How how wonderfully retro.
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>> Your caravan has no loo or shower? How how wonderfully retro.
There is a loo and it's used if we need a wee in the night. On the odd occasion we've gone to sites without facilities we've used it for poo as well but prefer not to where there is an option.
According to the spec the Xplore 304 has a shower but even I'd struggle in the space available. Some people fit a longer hose and feed it outside for washing dogs etc. After several instances where ladies rising from the seat caught the control and got soaked I've removed the hose/head and blanked the outlet off.
Since we camped for aeons without shower it's no great loss.
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You can take the tent out of the camp site, but you cant take the camper out of the caravan I guess.
Two of us have just spent 6 mights on the rolling hills on the edge of the sea above Saundersfoot in the basecamp. Both of us used the loo and had hot showers every day (not together or at the same time clearly), the small but perfectly designed wash room works like a charm.
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The Basecamp is sold as a 'crossover' and I suspect the more useful washroom reflects it's being pitched at MTB etc types more likely to be off grid. Like bikes caravans are a compromise.
I liked the Basecamp when we saw it at launch and if we were buying what we wanted in 2014 now it would be on my shortlist in the 4 berth iteration. Mrs B and I tend to keep different hours; I tend to both retire later and rise earlier. That lead us to look at models with a dinette which at the time limited us to the Xplore 304 or the Adria Shannon.
Our next 'van is likely to be a bit bigger and with twin beds. The Bailey Unicorn Cadiz appeals.
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>> Both of us used the loo and had hot showers every day (not together or at the same time
>> clearly),
There's no romance in you, is there?
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>> There's no romance in you, is there?
>>
...he omitted mentioning the cold showers.....
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From this
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=19581&m=432334
to this
"Two of us have just spent 6 mights on the rolling hills on the edge of the sea above Saundersfoot in the basecamp. Both of us used the loo and had hot showers every day (not together or at the same time clearly), the small but perfectly designed wash room works like a charm."
Who says a leopard can't change his spots? :-)
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Saundersfoot Zero. That’s a nice part of the world. Late August 2018 I set off from Amroth on the Pembrokeshire coast path. It was raining. Tenby by lunchtime...deserted beaches, every cafe full so I repacked my kit in the church. I can’t remember where I camped that first night, but the weather improved on day 3 and I thoroughly enjoyed walking that coast. Even walking through Pembroke Dock and reading up on the history of the place.
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>> Saundersfoot Zero. That’s a nice part of the world. Late August 2018 I set off
>> from Amroth on the Pembrokeshire coast path.
We did a wee section (bout 6 miles return) of the PCP, from Abereiddy to Porthgain, and lunch in the Sloop Inn. Porthgain has fascinating fairly recent industrial archaeology.
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Test and Trace data being given to plod.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54586897
I can see some privacy issues here!
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>> I can see some privacy issues here!
The DHSC statement is as follows:
The Department of Health and Social Care has agreed a memorandum of understanding with the National Police Chiefs’ Council to enable police forces to have access on a case-by-case basis to information that enables them to know if a specific individual has been notified to self-isolate.
“The memorandum of understanding ensures that information is shared with appropriate safeguards and in accordance with the law. No testing or health data is shared in this process.
While you could read that as saying Police investigating an allegation of non compliance it does not make clear that Track/Trace cannot take the initiative, perhaps where a person states they will refuse.
The final sentence seems to sail very close to the wind in terms of truth.
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Para 1. and Para 2. are mutually non compatible surely? Certainly contradictory
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>> Para 1. and Para 2. are mutually non compatible surely? Certainly contradictory
>>
I read it as they'll say person A has to self isolate but not whether they've actually tested positive, could just be a close contact to someone who has it.
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Seems a very vague and wolly statement, not doubt written that way on purpose.
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Everyone's favourite former Prime Minister - Tony Blair - features in the Telegraph -
He broke self-isolation rules it seem, the Telegraph claims.
I am more bothered about him flying to the USA in a private jet, with a squad of coppers paid for by us.
Last edited by: Duncan on Sun 18 Oct 20 at 10:01
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>> I am more bothered about him flying to the USA in a private jet, with
>> a squad of coppers paid for by us.
>>
Why does the private jet bother you?
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I would suspect the private jet is paid for by one of his rich sponsors, but Duncan paid for the coppers, People from poor pox ridden Covid areas don't have money to burn you know.
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China, S Korea, Vietnam etc have very low virus levels due mainly to what we would would regard as an abuse of civil liberties. Non-compliance carries severe consequences.
In the UK, Europe, and the USA we worry interminably about democracy, privacy, freedom etc.
We need to make a clear choice.
Accept civil and personal constraints, back enforcement etc to minimise spread very quickly.
Or carry on as we are - playing a political game, failing to police or discipline those who are selfish or ignorant, assuming that ridiculing rules is somehow a solution etc.
Had the scenes in Liverpool pre Tier 3 happened in Beijing, water canon, rubber bullets, mass arrests etc would follow in short order. They would then step up the response.
It really is a "Brave New World" choice. Freedom to live in often insecure, squalid, disease ridden poverty, or highly regulated comfortable, well fed, warm, safe. Not an easy decision, but not one that can be put off indefinitely.
The idiocy continues.
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read an interesting fact t'other day: if you are notified to isolate by email or text on your phone /comp, you are only advised to, it is only mandatory if told in person by a track n trace official
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It's not clear from that report whether or not he's actually now closed, or the Go Fund me page has paid his fine and he continues opening.
Do you happen to know?
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>> It's not clear from that report whether or not he's actually now closed, or the
>> Go Fund me page has paid his fine and he continues opening.
>>
>> Do you happen to know?
>>
Yes they've closed now. The fund hasn't paid anything as the fines aren't due yet. I believe it's been taken up by the local MPs and so questions are being asked in HoC next week.
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People need to do two things;
1) Be far more responsible about their behaviour and the precautions they take.
2) Get back to their normal lives as far as possible.
And to me that means the gym should be allowed to open.
The goal should be protecting the vulnerable, not stopping the lives of the other 99.9% on the planet.
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>> read an interesting fact t'other day: if you are notified to isolate by email or
>> text on your phone /comp, you are only advised to, it is only mandatory if
>> told in person by a track n trace official
Because by text or email, there is no proof you have been notified.
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I find it sad that people should need telling.
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Per previous volume I've got the Track/Trace App on my phone as has Mrs B.
I've used it a couple of times to check in to places including the garage where I took the Fabia for its annual service. Mrs B uses it at the gym.
Last weekend we were at the Caravan and MoHo club site at Buxton. We were invited to use the Q-code to check in.
Preferred not to. We were all in our own caravans. We only shared the washblock and that was on restricted numbers, we even washed up in the 'van.
Our place was on pitch 8, I wasn't prepared to risk having to self isolate because the guy down the other end on pitch 70 reported contact with Covid.
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Exactly. I keep out of everyone's way as far as I can and TBH if I was told to self-isolate I probably wouldn't - although the warning would make me especially careful not to get near others.
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If you aren't too confident in the app why bother downloading it?
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 23 Oct 20 at 02:43
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>> If you aren't too confident in the app why bother downloading it?
I'm confident that it functions.
If it says I need to self isolate because I shared the service observation/waiting room at Northampton Skoda, maybe 10 metres square, with somebody who has tested positive I'll isolate; that's life.
If I've shared a campsite of several hectares with people in their own caravans and somebody in a 'van 400 metres away reports positive that's a bit different.
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Not quite sure i get that, but each to their own
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>
>> >> Preferred not to. We were all in our own caravans. We only shared the
>> washblock
>> >> and that was on restricted numbers,
>> >> Our place was on pitch 8, I wasn't prepared to risk having to self
>> isolate
>> >> because the guy down the other end on pitch 70 reported contact with Covid.
And he might well have used the shared washroom 5 minutes before you.
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>> Per previous volume I've got the Track/Trace App on my phone as has Mrs B.
>>
>>
>> I've used it a couple of times to check in to places including the garage
>> where I took the Fabia for its annual service. Mrs B uses it at the
>> gym.
>>
>> Last weekend we were at the Caravan and MoHo club site at Buxton. We were
>> invited to use the Q-code to check in.
>>
>> Preferred not to.
I think you should stop wasting everyones time and remove the app then. There you are picking and choosing how you use the tools there to help the cause and on the other hand slaging off those who are providing it for doing a bad job.
What a huge slice of hypocrisy.
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The app exists because Boris and Matt said it would help control the virus. The algorithms for exposure time, risk and distance are somewhat questionable.
Whether it actually does anything useful is somewhat debatable - having the app is voluntary, as is using it to check in at different locations. And you can switch it off if you want to ignore what it's saying.
It might be a game changer but concerns over civil liberties means functionality is limited.
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>> I think you should stop wasting everyones time and remove the app then. There you
>> are picking and choosing how you use the tools there to help the cause and
>> on the other hand slaging off those who are providing it for doing a bad
>> job.
>>
>> What a huge slice of hypocrisy.
I'm not clear where I've slagged anybody off. I just question the efficacy of its use on a large site occupied by multiple self contained premises.
Given the controls on access to shared washrooms and the fact there is more than one facility block on many sites the risk of transmission there is minimal.
I'd call it pragmatism.
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>> I'd call it pragmatism.
So would I. Although I would probably check in and leave it running, and just take a view if it issued a warning.
It's obvious even to responsible citizens that it isn't an omniscient system - it is what it is, a new application of technology that has big limitations and is a long way from being perfected, and as has constantly been pointed out we should all be taking personal responsibility and doing what we sensibly can to protect ourselves. Making decisions about our safety, in other words.
A caravan site contains probably dozens of people that we don't get anywhere near while we are there. On the other hand, if I check in at our village hall for a meeting and subsequently get a warning, I know that one of the 5 people a shared I room with for 2 hours must be the source. A very different case.
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 23 Oct 20 at 10:18
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Just been on a three day 1,000 mile business trip with several visits to service stations and the like en-route. All required some form of sign-in, preferrably the Covid-19 NHS App sign-in before they would serve you.
Makes sense. Lots of people coming in an out, using toilets one after the other, sitting in chairs only just vacated. You can cancel the log-in when you leave so it only recognises the precise time you were there so if a super-spreader arrives after you, you won't get the call. Otherwise your log in remains live until midnight or until you sign in elsewhere the same day.
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>> Our place was on pitch 8, I wasn't prepared to risk having to self isolate
>> because the guy down the other end on pitch 70 reported contact with Covid.
I'm not sure what I'd do. Lumping an entire large campsite into one check-in point does seem a bit excessive. On the other hand you might have shared the bathroom or other facility with the person who tested positive and thus might be carrying.
In all I'd probably take Manatee's approach; carry on using it but if a positive result shows take it as reason for extreme caution rather than necessarily for total isolation for 14 days.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 23 Oct 20 at 11:36
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My understanding of how the thing works is that the algorithm uses the proximity and duration of exposure to a contact for calculating vulnerability to infection and thus whether you will be contacted not simply whether you checked in to the location. The purpose of the Q code is to provide your contact info - like leaving your telephone number in a paper based system.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Fri 23 Oct 20 at 11:46
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I didn't appreciate it was that subtle. So Bromp checking in on the QR code or not will not have altered anything except the ability for the campsite to contact him directly?
Knowing that, then I would do exactly the same as Bromp.
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Not the campsite. The don’t get your details. Track and Trace contact you directly.
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Surely one of the flaws is that you are kept 'signed-in' even after you have left the location for several hours... not sure what the issue is with not using a second QR code as you leave?
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>> Surely one of the flaws is that you are kept 'signed-in' even after you have
>> left the location for several hours... not sure what the issue is with not using
>> a second QR code as you leave?
Just checked my data and it shows me as at the Citroen dealer in Milton Keynes from 09:00 until midnight. If that's standard then I'd have needed to check in again each day at the Club site.
I also got a brief warning on mine for exposure. It popped up while I was in Tesco and wanting my phone to text home for guidance on substitute products so I didn't attend to it immediately.
Now I cannot find it.
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I'm sure I'm being dense but I'm not seeing the advantage of checking into any QR code.
The app will tell me if my phone has been close to a relevant phone at a relevant time.
Why does anybody else need me to check-in to a QR code so that they know I was there?
That can surely only add difficulty?
Unless it's so that if they find they had an infected person without the App that they can then tell me about it. And I don't think I want that since who knows if I was there at the same time or close to them?
What damage would I do by ignoring QR check-ins?
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It had only just gone live as I left the UK but both daughters are running it and it has given a number of false alarms in the same way you describe Bromps - the message appears then can't be found later. I thought an update had been issued but anyway make sure yours is up to date. It was mentioned on the Beeb news site earlier this week too IIRC.
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 23 Oct 20 at 16:29
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"Just checked my data..."
How do you do that?
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>> How do you do that?
Via 'Manage my Data' under the about this app tab.
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Thanks.
Mine is totally blank. Perhaps it shows something only if you've checked in somewhere using a QR code. I haven't done that, so that would explain it.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54662795
I can only see this increasing the popularity of online shopping.
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I heard today, Paypal and other companies are offering, short, interest free finance on purchases (a few weeks). This is to encourage buyers to get stuff they couldn't otherwise afford. It will also improve the retail trade (I suspect they're paying the cost) that sign into it.
Paypal are charging £12 for late payments, I understand.
I suppose someone has to fill the void left by Brighthouse.
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54662795
>>
>> I can only see this increasing the popularity of online shopping.
I can see the prohibition on Welsh Supermarkets selling non-essential items ending up in the courts.
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Someone from the Welsh government has said that kettles are on the banned list because "There are other methods of boiling water".
Luckily I have two spare, just in case.
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>> Someone from the Welsh government has said that kettles are on the banned list because
>> "There are other methods of boiling water".
Twit. Probably has a boily water tap. But I don't suppose Currys is going to open up just to sell kettles. Fortunately there are online vendors.
Jug kettles or even traditional are much safer to handle than saucepans with a couple of pints of boiling water slopping about, usually have locking lids, and are where the hot drink is made. Wandering across the kitchen with the pan of boiling water is not an especially safe activity, or easy for folk with arthritic hands - my wife would struggle to do it.
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>> >> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54662795
>> >>
>> >> I can only see this increasing the popularity of online shopping.
>>
>> I can see the prohibition on Welsh Supermarkets selling non-essential items ending up in the
>> courts.
>>
Looks like it's being 'reviewed'.
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Chile is incompetent at most things.
However, everybody wears a mask, everybody distances (when they're not rioting).
Pretty much all shops are open, though they restrict how many people are in at one time.
Pretty much all bars & restaurants are open though everybody must close before 11pm. All bars & restaurants have been given permission to put tables out on the sidewalk, and even the road if it is wide enough, to allow people to be seated outside.
You don't need to wear a mask when seated, but must put it on before standing. And your mask is not permitted to be left on the table, hanging on the chair or anywhere else. Most places issue little plastic bags to keep the mask in when not wearing it.
Eating inside is not permitted, hence the growth onto sidewalks and road edges. Even if you buy a burger in the food court of a shopping mall you have to leave the mall to eat it.
Of course being outside is no real issue here, except it's damned hot in the sun, it's spring now so that'll be sunshine until March/April time.
The only thing that I can think of that is not open is cinemas. Oh and sports events / concerts, of course.
Yet COVID-19 growth in Chile has been flat for about 3 months, even decreasing slightly. What is Europe doing so differently or so wrong to see such growth?
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Or is it simply that Chile screwed it up so badly in the early days that all those likely to get very sick and/or die have already done so?
Chile has less than 1m people over the age of 80.
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Chile has less fewer than 1m people over the age of 80.
You have the things that annoy you and I have the things that annoy me.
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Sat 24 Oct 20 at 19:15
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Quite correct. And it always annoys me when I forget less/few
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The oldest use that the Oxford English Dictionary gives for less with a countable noun is a quotation from 888 by Alfred the Great:
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>>What is Europe doing so differently or so wrong to see such growth?
The virus does not like hot and dry conditions. Although I suspect a few other moving parts are involved.
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>>The virus does not like hot and dry conditions.
That would apply now but not in July / August. Which is a bit like early autumn in the UK.
I can only assume that the UK is overreacting.
It seems that is is largely spread by breath when in close contact with others. Separation in Santiago is difficult, and the poorer you are the more difficult it is. It really is difficult to believe that Chile is performing better at precautions unless the UK is ignoring the whole thing and just behaving like a nation of dicks.
One could argue that perhaps testing is not as comprehensive here, though tests are freely available. But we haven't got gutters full of bodies and elective surgery is taking place pretty freely/widely indicating that the ICUs are also doing ok.
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My own view is that the second wave is more aggressively virulent and as such the measures which most countries are taking very seriously (even if their population aren't) will only be of limited help. Maybe places like Chile have less visitors bringing in the more virulent strain. The point seems to be that nearly al countries are reporting massively increased numbers around the same time, so you can't blame e.g. track and trace not working, or Boris's Tiers, or whatever.
It obviously would help if people kept their distance
Just my theory.
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And I don't think it's right. It may spread faster, though there is no current evidence, but it's not more lethal.
However, the difference just twigged. Here schools and universities are still remote learning.
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By the way, are you still in Portugal? Tell all. I could do with some vicarious enjoyment, I love the place.
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Some graphs have been produced which show in the larger cities - Manchester, Liverpool etc
- that the increase in infection rates is very closely aligned with the return of students to uni by local area where halls of residence etc are concentrated.
There is a danger in making these sort of correlations, but given that a lot of students enjoy socialising, alcohol, drugs, sex etc, it seems blindingly obvious.
The rise in infection rates generally also seems to be closely related to the change in weather over the last 4-6 weeks making outdoor socialising less likely.
All this is compounded by a delay in taking action when needed, lack of enforcement, clownish comments from the terminally stupid seeking to find inconsistencies in the rules, and the denialists who think it is all a conspiracy anyway (or certainly no worse than flu)
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Yep, less than two weeks now till I go home from Portugal, though I'v ehalf a mind to see if I can stretch it out easily ( - flight and car hire would be easy enough as would accommodation, it's just the insurances and they wouldn't be oto difficult, nor, I doubt, would extending the UK airport parking). State of calamity has been announced since we arrived but it's not changed much. Outdoor masks are now compulsory anywhere where you can't reliably maintain safe distance.
Next Fri - Mon (All Saints Day is Monday, which is a public hol and I gather is usually a family-visiting occasion) all travel outside your own municipality is banned, and will be enforced rigidly. Which is a bit of a drag as I have to get daughter back to the airport on Saturday. People are saying there'll be no taxis, so this week I need to find out the proper situation as I have to cross two other municipalities to reach the airport. I'm not even sure who I'd ask a similar question of in the UK, let alone here!! She flew out here on a bit of a whim yesterday on a 1/3rd full flight.
On the up side it really isn't that busy here. We are at Armacao de Pera which is a modest sized place with a number of apartment blocks, most of which appear to be empty - our "landlady" says they are mostly second homes for Portuguese rather than rented out to others. When you look out from our roof terrace, or drive round and see all the empty apartments and villas, you wonder how the local businesses survive the winter - I feel so sorry for the empty bars so am dropping in to support them more frequently than I usually would! :-)
We've had on really bad day this week and a couple less so but the sea was actually warmer after it, which I didn't expect, although quite a bit rougher. It's calmer now but there is some intermittent rain expected today, then the forecast is clear fo rthe next week or so.
I think I mentioned elsewhere that the F1 is taking place today not far away. Having said how empty the bars are, one had a number of lairy blokes in the other day who's clearly spent quit some hours there, and they were the truck drivers for some of the teams apparently. Quite a few of the teams are staying quite close to here, at the hotel where my daughter's mate got married a couple of years back, and apparently Aston are hosting a party for 180 somewhere tonight which I'm sure will be socially distanced. Still waiting for my invite... :-)
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>> My own view is that the second wave is more aggressively virulent
What leads you to that conclusion?
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Define virulent.
"extremely severe or harmful in its effects"
Assume it's something that can and does have mutations. Logically it might get more infectious, survival of the fittest and all that.
I suppose a more infectious strain might just happen to be more virulent but I don't think it follows that it will.
I thought case mortality was going down? Real cases I mean, not just using positive test numbers.
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I thought case mortality was going down? Real cases I mean, not just using positive
>> test numbers.
>>
I believe so, numbers of people dying are in line with what's expected in an average October.
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Numbers dying would be lower as we understand better how to treat people with it.
I may have used the wrong word, I didn't really mean it's more deadly. I meant more pervasive, or something like that - more easily passed on maybe. My theory isn't well developed really so don't spend too much time analysing it. :-)
Others are blowing off that it's Boris's fault, or the UK government, or the students, or the rioters, or people not wearing masks, or people going on holiday, or the lack of testing - yet the second wave is far from being a UK only problem, and is being seen in countries which are taking different approaches to safety.
I just made me think that maybe that it is the virus itself which may have changed in some way.
But OTOH testing is probably exposing a lot more cases where symptoms are low or non-existent and which would have completely gone under the radar in March/April, but are now being counted and are bringing the figures across Europe to somewhere about the same level as March.
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>> But OTOH testing is probably exposing a lot more cases where symptoms are low or
>> non-existent and which would have completely gone under the radar in March/April, but are now
>> being counted and are bringing the figures across Europe to somewhere about the same level
>> as March.
In the UK, or certainly England and Wales, the numbers are being driven up by the availability of testing. Whilst there are still widespread reports of delay/inefficiency in testing very large numbers of people are being tested as soon as they have symptoms. Many of those are young people who fight off the infection with only a few days of feeling rough.
The worrying thing will be when hospital admissions and transfers to ICU get back to the levels of last spring.
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Just wondering why they didn't start using the Nightingale Hospitals first for covid patients thereby allowing normal hospitals to carry on functioning as normal for as long as possible, rather than filling them first and having to curtail other treatments for patients?
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>> Just wondering why they didn't start using the Nightingale Hospitals first for covid patients thereby
>> allowing normal hospitals to carry on functioning as normal for as long as possible, rather
>> than filling them first and having to curtail other treatments for patients?
I suspect staff is as much of a problem as beds.
Is there still a cohort of the recently retired ready to be called in?
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>> Is there still a cohort of the recently retired ready to be called in?
The NMC have not yet cancelled the the suspension of registration, so yes. Many nurses who had specialisation, ie paeds, now have some recent general nursing skills built up, to backfill those sent to Nightinggales,. In truth the Nightinggales were severely under utilised, the diagnosis, effects, progress and variants of the disease are now well understood, and hence treatment much more timely & effective. No doubt tho that the vulnerable hit by flu and CV this winter are going to die
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 26 Oct 20 at 10:25
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>> Just wondering why they didn't start using the Nightingale Hospitals first for covid patients thereby
>> allowing normal hospitals to carry on functioning as normal for as long as possible, rather
>> than filling them first and having to curtail other treatments for patients?
Patient transport was a major issue.
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>> Patient transport was a major issue.
Lack of ambulances?
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 26 Oct 20 at 10:25
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The worrying thing will be when hospital admissions and transfers to ICU get back to
>> the levels of last spring.
>>
We are about 20% of where things were in March, in terms of those on ventilators with cv19. How this corresponds to an average Oct I don't know. I guess they would start to busy at this time of year?
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Hospitals, like most public services, are funded and staffed to be close to 100% utilised.
Less than this and they would be perceived as wasting money (empty beds etc). Hospitals may carry a small contingency for road accidents, terrorist incidents etc but are generally fully used.
They create headroom for peak demands (eg: flu in winter) by flexing other more elective treatments. Nightingale hospitals may be very efficient as they have been set up to deal with only one issue. They do not need all the ancilliary facilities of a general hospital. efficiently.
The real issue is likely to be staffing - even though they may be very efficient, they still need staff who will be drawn largely from existing hospitals (+ some returnees etc).
Hospital admissions lag cases probably by around 2 weeks and deaths by 3-4 weeks. So expect the numbers to increase until mid November, even if the Tier system works.
As far as the virus mutating is concerned, Charles Darwin had it right. Generally (but not always) viruses tend to become less dangerous - they would quickly vanish if they killed their hosts before they could pass on the infection.
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>> In the UK, or certainly England and Wales, the numbers are being driven up by
>> the availability of testing. Whilst there are still widespread reports of delay/inefficiency in testing very
>> large numbers of people are being tested as soon as they have symptoms.
Needed a test on Friday, Booked it Friday Am, took drive through test at 12:30 (6 miles away) result to my phone Saturday evening at 19:00.
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Can I ask why you needed a test? You got symptoms?
My daughter is taking part in a govt test re looking at antibodies. Got her results back today Friday, she has the antibodies.
We reckon that the 4 of us had it over the fortnight before lockdown.
Think she gets monthly tests to look at levels of antibodies and monitor for any future positive Covid tests.
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>> Can I ask why you needed a test? You got symptoms?
No symptoms, I have a colonoscopy on Tuesday, at an outsourced clinic, and they require me to be Covid free.
I've had lots of tests arranged by my NHS trust, this is the first time I have had to arrange my own. Never had an antibodies test.
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Hampshire police send SBS to enforce rule of 6...
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-54684440
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??
"The Ministry of Defence called the incident a "suspected hijacking" and said Defence Secretary Ben Wallace and Home Secretary Priti Patel authorised the operation in response to a police request."
I'm wondering about the accuracy of your other accusations of police excessiveness now.
Though it's all a bit strange. Apparently the crew and the owners had been aware of the presence of a number of stowaways for some time and it was they who cut up rough when the crew tried to do something about them..
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Erm it was a humorous comment on the rule of 6 nothing more!
I doubt Hampshire police had anything to do with it until some poor custody Sargent had to look up the piracy act!
Last edited by: zippy on Mon 26 Oct 20 at 00:57
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I was trying, and clearly failing, to be facetious.
I suspect it's one of those where we'll never get the full story.
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>> I was trying, and clearly failing, to be facetious.
OMG! Must be an old age thing. how you gonna survive with your primary faculties failing you?
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>> OMG! Must be an old age thing. how you gonna survive with your primary faculties
>> failing you?
I don't know. It is a worry.
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>> I suspect it's one of those where we'll never get the full story.
I suspect you're right.
The incident is now being used to re-warm the migrants invading via the channel story. It's almost as though it's to the governments advantage that the story emerges now.....
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>> It's almost as though it's to the governments advantage that the story emerges now.....
Party politics at its daftest.
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>> Party politics at its daftest.
It was semi ironic.....
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>>It was semi ironic...
I never really know what that means, not just in this case. Does it mean that it was also semi not-ironic? Can something be semi-ironic, or must be either ironic or not?
Isn't ironic when something illogical or seemingly wrong happens? e.g. Bear Grylls getting lost in a shopping mall.
So how can it be semi-that?
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You can't have degrees of some words - partly pregnant, for instance.
I think something is either ironic or not.
Just pedantry practise, I've been resting.
8o)
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May have had more of an impact if it had any Iranian Embassy type of outcome.
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www.notimerica.com/politica/noticia-coronavirus-nicolas-maduro-anuncia-logrado-medicamento-suprime-efectos-coronavirus-20201025234820.html
It's in Spanish and I can't find the story in English. Sorry. I offer you just a little which I have translated.
Nicolás Maduro announces that they have achieved a drug that suppresses the effects of the coronavirus
The president of Venezuela, Nicolás Maduro, announced on Sunday that scientists from the Venezuelan Institute for Scientific Research have found a molecule that nullifies the effects caused by COVID-19 obtained from a medicinal plant.
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Thank God we've got Brexit done so we can stop these Nigerians from...
Oh.
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A comment I read recently about Corona policies:
A Dog had his chain shortened by 1 link every other day, until his chain was so short he could barely move.
He never complained or resisted because he was conditioned to the loss of his freedom slowly over time.
Are you one of these hypothetical Dogs?
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What utter nonsense.
DO you consider precautions against COVID-19 solely an attack upon your freedom?
If so, then I beg you to consider getting out there and contracting COVID-19 as quickly as possible. That'll then be one less person we have to worry about.
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>> If so, then I beg you to consider getting out there and contracting COVID-19 as
>> quickly as possible. That'll then be one less person we have to worry about.
I had the impression from some previous posts that devonite has an underlying health condition.
Mind you, there is one authoritative voice singing from the same sheet.
www.theguardian.com/law/2020/oct/27/covid-measures-will-be-seen-as-monument-of-collective-hysteria-and-folly-says-ex-judge
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 28 Oct 20 at 17:23
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Perhaps the chain will strangle him?
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 28 Oct 20 at 17:05
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We'll be fine. We've got the tiers of a clown.
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I didn't say that was my view!!
But IF we ever get rid of the virus enough to ever live normalish lives again (which I doubt)
it will be interesting to see how many of the present restrictions remain in place, and then some will realise just how much freedom we've lost.
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>>Are you one of these hypothetical Dogs?
No, I think the control measures related to COVID are really about social cooperation - unfortunately some people have to be told. COVID is much more dangerous to the community as a whole than it is to most individuals, most of whom frankly shouldn't worry about it unduly.
But, it is important to avoid catching it and spreading it if possible, because 1) some people are especially vulnerable, and 2) the virus is known to be capable of swamping healthcare resources.
Those are really the two unasked, and unanswered, questions begged by the the Great Barrington declaration and why I have no patience with the "it's just 'flu, we should carry on as normal" brigade.
The idea that the vulnerable should stay out of the way while everybody else gets it is superficially attractive but nobody AFAIK has offered a credible plan for it. Millions of vulnerable people cannot easily be effectively kept safe if the disease is spreading freely amongst everybody else. And the facts that all elective procedures and normal GP services could virtually disappear for an extended period, and what resources there are might not even cope with all the COVID cases in such a scenario, are just ignored.
However I think you might be right to worry about what the government is up to. While people are winding themselves up with conspiracy theories, they don't seem so concerned about the way that Brexit has been subverted and the utter disaster it has become while they are looking the other way
Brexit, even if implemented, didn't have to be this way nor should it be - there is no mandate for it on a 52/48 split in which 48% were explicitly pro-Europe and there was far more talk of Norway, Switzerland etc than the scorched earth Brexit that seems ever more likely. All this in a nasty soup of nationalism, populism, xenophobia and racism created by demonising the EU, as if it didn't consist of our nearest neighbours with which we do most of our trade and where tens of millions of used go for our holidays.
Consider this open letter to a Conservative MP who rebuked a constituent for linking Brexit with Fascism.
westcountrybylines.co.uk/brexit-and-fascism-heed-the-warning-signs-while-you-still-can-mr-mangnall-a-constituent-writes-to-his-mp/
Of course it sets out to be polemical not an objective analysis but I think the writer makes a very good case.
If your shortening dog chain is relevant perhaps the parable applies to the way the government is getting away with behaviour that would have been unimaginable a few short years ago - brazen dishonesty, manipulating parliamentary procedure to forestall debate, reneging on the Withdrawal Agreement for example
Perhaps if Biden wins in the US, it will shake their apparent belief that they can get away with anything, however crooked, venal, or cruel.
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 28 Oct 20 at 18:34
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I agree with much of what you say - the critical issue is the capacity of the electorate to have a free vote at regular intervals to select those they wish to govern.
Brexit largely reflects the complete inability of the opposition parties to defeat it - or at least demand a clear agreement and second referendum.
Like it or not, Trump scored a victory in 2016 within US electoral rules. That "crooked Hilary" got more votes is irrelevant - in the same way as in the UK we have a first past the post system which disadvantages minority parties.
10 months ago in the UK the public overwhelmingly voted Tory. The opposition (IMHO) was completely hopeless and had no prospect of forming an effective government. Starmer may get a chance to change that in the next few years.
Stereotypical anti-Tory remarks - selling off the NHS, they are all billionaaires, etc etc - is noise without substance.
After Thatcher 1979-1992, Major 1992-1997, Cameron 2010-2016, May 2016-2019 and now Boris they have had ample opportunity to dismantle the NHS, welfare state, education etc and have not done so. Not all changes have been good, but nor have they been universally bad.
Hopefully Biden will win - Trump is a deeply flawed individual. But I do wonder why the Democrats put up another geriatric for election - there must be far better options out there.
However it is clear that the US do not think as we do in the UK - eg: gun law, provision of public healthcare etc. So don't expect the outcome of the US election necessarily to conform to our expectations.
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>> Stereotypical anti-Tory remarks - selling off the NHS, they are all billionaaires, etc etc -
>> is noise without substance.
Unfortunately not all of it.
>>
>> After Thatcher 1979-1992, Major 1992-1997, Cameron 2010-2016, May 2016-2019 and now Boris they have had
>> ample opportunity to dismantle the NHS, welfare state, education etc and have not done so.
Not so, all have participation from the private sector.
>> Not all changes have been good, but nor have they been universally bad.
Nothing is all bad. that's not much of a recommendation.
I fear for the NHS, already partly in private hands. A significant proportion of the NHS budget already goes to businesses in the private sector. Nor are the Conservatives the only party to have created vast 'investment opportunities' for commercial enterprises to take profit from the NHS although Labour's reasons for doing it might have been different to those of the Conservatives. PFI is crippling hospitals trusts financially and undermines our ability to fund the NHS and therefore to maintain services. Effectiveness and efficiency have generally suffered when services have been outsourced. Virgin Care notoriously has sizeable contracts and manages to pay little tax on its profits. The costs of contracts made previously lead to a vicious circle of wheezes that in the long run just make the situation worse e.g leasing of expensive equipment and growing 'outsourcing'.
There is plenty of information on this and it goes on while Hancock et al continue to deny there are any plans to privatize the NHS - more brazen lies.
www.independent.co.uk/voices/nhs-privatisation-sale-boris-johnson-conservatives-general-election-a9241881.html
www.nhsforsale.info/private-providers/virgin-care-ltd-new/#:~:text=Virgin%20Care%20Services%20Ltd%20turnover,%C2%A36.9%20million%20in%202018.)
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What an embarrassment that man is.
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In this instance its a bit like a maggot feeding on a corpse?
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Nasty. It's too early to be casual about this disease, isn't it?
Keep taking the vitamin D.
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>> Nasty. It's too early to be casual about this disease, isn't it?
Yes. We all, me included, keep trying to comfort ourselves by boxing COVID-19 in to nice comfortable limits.
And we keep finding out it doesn't actually fit in any box we know about.
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And it hasn't even mutated yet.
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I mean a proper mutation that requires a change in vaccine.
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As predicted by yours truly further up this thread!!
Though I'm not sure that I like finding myself having the same opinion as the Mail :-)
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>> Though I'm not sure that I like finding myself having the same opinion as the
>> Mail :-)
That seems unlikely. The Mail thinks the virus has a plan - "Tiny changes in its DNA occur every time it spreads between people as it tries to enable greater growth, transmissibility or escape from the immune system."
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It’s a common metaphor to assume evolution has a plan and indeed the result of selection is to make it look as though there is a plan so I think we can forgive the Mail
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>> It’s a common metaphor to assume evolution has a plan and indeed the result of
>> selection is to make it look as though there is a plan so I think
>> we can forgive the Mail
Its a good job evolution is not planed, there wouldnt be any.
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It'd certainly be thinner, though perhaps smoother, than it was before.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 30 Oct 20 at 15:59
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It is fascinating how a process that results from copying error can “design” something as complex as a human brain. So unlikely on the face of it that that the theory, altogether simple in concept, was only proposed less than 200 years ago and many are still reluctant to accept it.
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>>As predicted by yours truly further up this thread!!
Didn't you say something about more virulent? I think the theory in the Mail, though couched in many "may"s, "mights"s and "could"s, is that it spreads more easily, not that it causes more harm.
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I did, however I said when challenged I'd used the wrong word though :-) I didn''t realise that more virulent causes more harm. That wasn't what I meant. I meant more aggressive at spreading.
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...contagious vs virulent....
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The Great Barrington lot must now be feeling pretty stupid.
Latest is that daily infections in mid October were running at around 4 tines the predicted reasonable worst case prediction.
From the BBC-
Scientists crunching the numbers estimated that, by mid-October, there were between 43,000 and 74,000 people being infected with coronavirus every day in England.
Their report said: "This is significantly above the profile of the reasonable worst-case scenario, where the number of daily infections in England remained between 12,000-13,000 throughout October."
BBC News - Covid spreading faster in England than 'worst-case scenario', documents show
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54750775
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Who will die who might otherwise have not died if the Government and the people had behaved differently?
People who die from COVID-18 through lack of healthcare who otherwise would have survived? So far I understand that is zero. Anything to suggest that might change?
People who if they had been kept away from the virus for a further year may have been given an effective vaccine and escaped? Yeah right.
People who would have received more informed treatment if they had the virus at a later date? Well, I guess that's not zero, but I have no idea how many it may be.
People who have not sought treatment for another condition for fear of contamination. Again, I suspect not zero, but presumably we can help them the best by rushing the virus through the rest of the population asap.
Who else? Any other categories? Many more people? Who are all these deaths that could have been avoided? And how could that have been done? (and I mean avoided, not delayed).
What is this apocalypse that we're desperate to hide from? The death of 0.01% of the population, an unknown amount of whom would have died in a similar timescale anyway?
It is sad, and I am not trying to trivialise it. But I do think it's time for the schoolgirl tabloids to stop shrieking and the world to get some perspective.
Time we started learning how to live with it and stopped pretending we can hide from it. Live must go on.
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Back to the old questions. How can vulnerable people be protected when everyone else has free rein, and what will be the collateral damage if medical services are overwhelmed, which has so far been avoided.
Stand by for another lockdown.
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>> The Great Barrington lot must now be feeling pretty stupid.
>>
>>
Why is that? On the basis that positive tests are rising, I don't think their argument is that cases won't rise.
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>> >> The Great Barrington lot must now be feeling pretty stupid.
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>> Why is that? On the basis that positive tests are rising, I don't think their
>> argument is that cases won't rise.
No, but presumably 4 x the infection level planned for in the "reasonable worst case scenario" forecast must risk swamping healthcare. That didn't actually happen in the first wave. Where would infection be if Great Barrington had been implemented? That, and the absence of a credible plan for protecting the vulnerable, have been the obvious weaknesses of the declaration from the off.
Remember "flattening the curve"? That wasn't about preventing infection, just pacing it to protect the NHS.
We might yet be saved if in evolving the virus has become more infectious but less severe in its effects. But that will be luck. Otherwise, it's possible that the ball has already gone over the wall.
I say again - the individual risk from catching the virus may well be one that a lot pf people are prepared to accept - but the risk to the community as a whole of completely swamping healthcare for months is cannot be acceptable if it would literally mean leaving people to die, without even palliative care.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 31 Oct 20 at 10:20
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Perhaps I am being too dismissive of the GBa. I take Sunetra Gupta seriously. Maybe it should be thoroughly worked through by the SAGE group.
Article by Gupta, published by the Mail.
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8899277/Professor-Sunetra-Gupta-reveals-crisis-ruthlessly-weaponised.html
I wonder if it would be possible to run a trial.
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On 21st September BBC reported that Vallance said there could be 50000 new cases per day by mid October, and 200+ deaths per day a month after that. He was pretty much spot on!
The solution is the problem - it is either economically ruinous, or a death sentence for many in an uncaring society.
Perhaps 20% will agree with whatever is proposed, 20% will say it's not quite right but ok, and 60% will say it's too little too late, or not enough!
IMHO having the NHS completely overwhelmed in treating covid patients, and other urgent medical care stalled, is not an acceptable outcome. So we need is much more honesty:
- ruin the economy and be explicit about the implications - jobs, mental health, debt etc
- allow some to be made comfortable in their final days but not treated
I seriously question the morality or justification for attempting to extend the life of those already suffering, old, infirm and who may anyway have very little time to live. We would not keep animals or pets alive in such circumstances.
The damage to the rest of the community, particularly the young, of diverting so much resource to the elderly is simply unfair.
As a private individual I can make these remarks - you are free to agree or disagree. For a politician they are political suicide - so we continue with the illusion (it is illusory) that we can somehow find a solution in inadequate compromise.
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No, but presumably 4 x the infection level planned for in the "reasonable worst case
>> scenario" forecast must risk swamping healthcare. That didn't actually happen in the first wave. Where
>> would infection be if Great Barrington had been implemented?
gbdeclaration.org/frequently-asked-questions/
The outline of their plan here, although it's hard to always make a clear judgement about which school of thought to follow when it becomes a battle of the experts. However there doesn't seem to be much in there that is beyond reason.
I take you mean they are not keen on lockdowns? There doesn't seem to be settled opinion on it, GB aren't keen and I read somewhere neither are the WHO.
That, and the absence of a
>> credible plan for protecting the vulnerable, have been the obvious weaknesses of the declaration from
>> the off.
I think they've added that to their site.
>>
it would literally mean leaving people to die, without even palliative care.
I think that's always going to happen at some point not everyone can get the care they need. The real question is how many, which groups and and what cost?
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>> it would literally mean leaving people to die, without even palliative care.
>>
>> I think that's always going to happen at some point not everyone can get the
>> care they need. The real question is how many, which groups and and what cost?
It's not just hospital care. There's also the infrastructure for dealing with the dead. Italy's crematoria/cemeteries were all but overwhelmed in phase one. Similar in some states of the US.
Has anybody else read Peter May's novel 'Lockdown'? Originally written several years ago, about the time of H5N1, but he couldn't persuade a publisher to take it.
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>>he couldn't persuade a publisher to take it
I think that was related to the fact that it was a crap novel, however prophetic the subject can retrospectively be deemed to be.
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IF England goes into some kind of lockdown next week does anybody know if tyre fitters would be included as essential?
Only ask because daughter has her car booked in (and paid for online) next Saturday for four new ones as they are almost past their best and I would prefer she has a new set before winter.
Obviously during LD1 we had the issue with garages and MoTs not sure if that will be repeated.
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>> IF England goes into some kind of lockdown next week does anybody know if tyre
>> fitters would be included as essential?
The PM and the Chief Medical and Scientific Officers are due to give a press conference. It was at 4pm, then 5 now 6pm. They will outline what is to happen. Informed speculation is that it will be 4 weeks from next Thursday until 2 December.
Detail will probably follow later in the week when the Regulations will be laid before Parliament.
I'd expect them to broadly mirror the last lockdown but with variations to keep the schools etc open.
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The PM and the Chief Medical and Scientific Officers are due to give a press
>> conference. It was at 4pm, then 5 now 6pm. They will outline what is to
>> happen. Informed speculation is that it will be 4 weeks from next Thursday until 2
>> December.
>>
Now 6.30 apparently, rumoured to be due to last minute conversations with back benchers.
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I ask again, what material role does the Government have in the prevention of deaths beyond preventing the overloading of the NHS?
Why are we incapable of accepting "there's a virus, best not to catch it" and instead are unable to act without state dictation.
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Good point my MOT is due by 13th Nov, I'll try and get it in this week
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Panic buying in evidence again in our local town centre which was gridlocked - people probably thought M&S would run short of underwear, Debenhams would close as they walked to the store, and £ shop would put up prices!
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I heard from a friend that 3 supermarkets In Southsea have already sold out of toilet rolls. I shall be getting across to Majestic and stocking up on some of the wines I have been trying recently. Red of course, it’s good for the heart. I have a chum who is a cardiologist and he told me, proof if proof were needed!
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Interestingly I was talking about MOTs today whilst out walking in the mountains of the Marina Alta. It’s very different in Spain...the ITV ( MOT) test starts at 4yo. Then up to 10yo every two years.
If you have a tow bar fitted retrospectively then you need two ITV tests....one specifically for the tow bar. Or so I was told.
The ITVM (RFL) varies region to region...my friend says she pays £35pa for her old 1600cc petrol. Much depends on the type of vehicle....I don’t think RRP or emissions come into the equation.
But it’s cheaper than the U.K.. although second hand prices definitely aren’t.
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It's a week till I fly back to the UK. Portugal has about 1/10 of the UK population and cases are proportionally about the same as the UK, though I gather most are in the north and around Lisbon so maybe the Algarve is a little safer.
Last week I was thinking I might sta, and we hav e been having fantastic weather for the past few days, but I've been persuaded that we should go home as planned. I guess we won't get arrested for driving home from the airport during lockdown!! We are doing two weeks isolation anyway so the lockdown won't really impact us much at all - I already have shopping delivery slots booked till end Nov.
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I’ve just changed my flight home for the third time.
28C today in the mountains of the Marina Alta. Cloudless. Chance of rain next week. No lockdown. Curfew 12 to 6 AM.
No point going home to the UK for us. I’m staying here. Even if temps drop to 20/23C it’s far better than the other alternative.
Rental prices in nice villas are ridiculously cheap due to current circumstances.
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Fly out to Tenerife tomorrow and now after Boris 's announcement seriously considering staying out there until at least 3rd December..
No point in coming home to lockdown and gloom . Might even stay there for Christmas . Safer there than here ...
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>>Safer there than here ...
And a damn sight warmer!
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In Chile we have, as I have mentioned before, a single and unique identifying number.
If you wish to go anywhere controlled; hospitals, care homes, old peoples' homes, orphanages etc. etc. you must have a negative COVID-19 test against your ID number that is no more than 24 hours old.Your ID records can be checked by anybody authorised (police, Government departments, health organisations etc. etc) and can be checked against your ID card and/ or your fingerprints.
It works quite well.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 31 Oct 20 at 22:29
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Portugal - now calamity status - smokie