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Ongoing debate.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 8 Aug 20 at 20:09
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Chile, in an unexpected dose of thought, has come up with a plan.
As you know we have had quarantine since April for which you have been able to apply for two permissions a week from the Carabineros for such things as pharmacy, doctor and basic provisions, and Curfew from 22:00 - 05:00 with no exceptions permitted. In addition even with a permission you cannot change town.
And Chile has had a rough time - highest confirmed infection rate in the world.
The plan, is this chart....
www.flickr.com/photos/189442145@N02/50149256817/in/dateposted-public/
I have quickly translated it into English, so sorry if it is a bit clumsy.
The idea being that as a comuna meets each set of criteria it can move to the right, and as it fails it moves to the left.
The net result for me is that my Comuna (borough), La Reina, moved intro 'Transition' w.e.f 22:00 tonight.
So, from 05:00 - 22:00, Monday to Friday we are allowed to move freely within our own Comuna.
I am quite genuinely excited. It's been a long time coming. I shall get up early especially.
It's been quite a strain.
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Take care.
(I really mean this)
8o)
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The youngest had a cough and a temperature yesterday, so booked a test. All booked by 1pm, got a slot for 2.30pm. Got the results (all negative) just after breakfast this morning. Impressively quick tbh, went to mobile testing unit run by the army, again in and out pretty quick.
No complaints about the system from my experience.
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How is Chile now, have they managed to reduce the rate of infection by any a large amount? How is testing and the local hospitals coping?
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>>How is Chile now, have they managed to reduce the rate of infection by any a large amount? How is testing and the local hospitals coping?
A mixed bag. Certainly it is well past the explosive growth that took it to the highest infection rate in the world.
UK - 4,400 per million pop
Chile - 18,000 per million pop.
It's deaths per million pop has risen from the best in the world to about average, as the figures have become more accurate.
The improvement in figures continues though, even the Government concedes that the death total is about 20% light and they were adjusted upwards more than 10% only a week ago.
As I have said before, Chile is rule based. And providing you follow the rules all is well. So years ago they established the rules for collecting death statistics - cause, recording/reporting process, etc. etc.
Before this, nobody has ever cared whether or not they were accurate. Chile felt it was vital that figures were reported religiously, but the quality of that data has never been important.
The Coronavirus epidemic is the first time that quality has been considered and needed. It has been a deep and fundamental shock to their healthcare admin and has taken until now to get right-ish.
Bear in mind though that a huge chunk of the country doesn't care, and the other chunk sincerely believes that the Government makes it up anyway. Many of them still believe that the virus is invented to stop them rioting in the streets and that Pinera controls global reporting to make it look convincing.
Chile's major problem is that it costs money to isolate. And thieves, drug dealers, street traders, casual labour and similar have not been able to gain money in quarantine. And that is a lot of people.
A friend of mine owns a chain of bar/restaurants. In the last 10 days he and some staff have been touring the dodgy areas and have so far given away 5,000 free meals. Good of him though that is, it is not even scratching the surface.
The private medical system is coping. Just. It is very high quality and very good customer surface. And very b***** expensive.
The public medical system is close to the edge, but the danger is receding.
The quarantine is beginning to weaken with a combination of people trying to dodge the restrictions and those who simply have to go out.
We have continued paying our staff. Most people have not. And these are typically people without savings who live from week to week.
We have 18th September coming up. That is independence Day. Chileans would have totally ignored quarantine on that day anyway, but also it is typically a time of trouble and violence.
We shall see if the riots kick off again.
In my opinion they absolutely will,m it's just difficult to know how badly.
Consequently
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Count your blessings.
You could be flying home from Benidorm tomorrow and having to go into immediate 14 day quarantine in Blackburn. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
And the % of people who will do that is ? Only tagging would work.
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My daughters mate flew in from Portugal a week or so back for a long weekend - she lives there - and the authorities called her on the following day to ensure she was self isolating at the address she'd given. She was surprised, in fact it put the fear of God in her, as she was planning outings and visitors and cancelled them all.
I've heard of other similar instances, so despite your cynicism they are checking up a bit.
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>> the authorities called her on the following day
>> to ensure she was self isolating at the address she'd given.
"sorry cant come to the phone, she is isolated in another room, call back in 14 days"
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:-) but the number you give is supposed to be one you can be reached on - I wouldn't be too surprised if they followed up with a knock on the door. They aren't as stupid as to fall for that surely, I expect within a few days of opening they'd heard all permutations of excuses...
Mind you, I wonder if they are tracking phone location, as apart from any unexpected background noise how would they have known where she was? I doubt they'd be allowed to do that though, unless it's a permission you sign up to when entering the country.
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www.bbc.com/news/53519668
Seems the large crowds at tourist sea side resorts had little impact on the infection rates.
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That just gives more grist to those in denial, though it does make you wonder doesn't it.
Mind you, I saw some other "crowded beach" pics in which at a glance it looked chokka but on closer inspection there probably was at least a metre between most groups of people. Photos can be a bit deceptive - even just by taking them from a different angle - and as we've said before the press will use those which suit their agenda best.
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>> That just gives more grist to those in denial, though it does make you wonder
>> doesn't it.
Outside and in a windy spot like the coast I guess it's actually pretty low risk. It'd be interesting to see the location of transmission of cv19. I think I read somewhere most transmission was in hospital and care homes?
>> Mind you, I saw some other "crowded beach" pics in which at a glance it
>> looked chokka but on closer inspection there probably was at least a metre between most
>> groups of people. Photos can be a bit deceptive - even just by taking them
>> from a different angle - and as we've said before the press will use those
>> which suit their agenda best.
Agreed, I suspect a drone shot would have given a very different impression. Pity many of them left so much rubbish behind.
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"Pity many of them left so much rubbish behind."
Probably no worse than any other summer day though, if the truth be known. I've seen overflowing bins on seafronts (and elsewhere) many times...
However I suppose the effort to clear up is greater, under precautions.
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If there were 2 miles of almost deserted beach with an ice cream or burger van at one end, the media would only film the crowd of 30 souls around said van.
The output from even the best media outlets should be treated with caution, the rest simply used to wrap the chips.
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>> The output from even the best media outlets should be treated with caution, the rest
>> simply used to wrap the chips.
Ah!
That takes me back - when you got your fish and chips wrapped in newspaper. You could a very interesting read on the way home.
I am not sure if they still do that...
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Terry, may I respectfully suggest you save up for a nice piece of battered haddock.
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It's almost Flu season again! - usually only certain folk can get it free (over 65's or those with underlying health problems) and this is quite strictly controlled. This year (June) the Gov purchased 100 Million doses of untried/tested Covid vaccines, and suddenly this year are giving away 30 Million free Flu doses! - meaning that almost anyone who wants one can have one! - me thinks there is something afoot here! is this really Flu vaccine or a covert mass-trial of these Covid vaccines? - I for one will be taking my chances with the flu this year!
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Yeah that must be it, you've uncovered a massive gov conspiracy. Well done you.
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Haha. I've paid for flu jabs for the past three or four years, and will again this year if necessary. If it protects me against COVID too, all the better!! :-)
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>> suddenly this year
>> are giving away 30 Million free Flu doses! - meaning that almost anyone who wants
>> one can have one! - me thinks there is something afoot here! is this really
>> Flu vaccine or a covert mass-trial of these Covid vaccines?
Good grief. And all the people who would have to know about that already will keep quiet?
I'll have the flu jab as I have for the last 2 years and despite not having had proper flu for 53 years. I also asked for and got the bacterial pneumonia jab this year. Quack said "good idea to have as much protection as you can".
What is it about human nature that reacts to everything with a vanishingly unlikely explanation involving a malevolent conspiracy? Somebody told me the other day that you can't trust Bill Gates because he's only interested in making money - a man who has given away $40bn.
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"a man who has given away $40bn."
But it's who he's given it to that the conspiracists jump on. He's given it to organisations that will kill us with dodgy vaccines, put microchips in us and that support the Chinese communist party.
Any fule kno that.
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..I can't forgive him for Windows....:-P
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My last vaccination was over 60 years ago, I'll wait another 60 years before I consider having one again.
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>> My last vaccination was over 60 years ago,
Is that dog years?
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>>Is that dog years?
That's a bone of contention.
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>> are giving away 30 Million free Flu doses! - meaning that almost anyone who wants
>> one can have one! - me thinks there is something afoot here! is this really
>> Flu vaccine or a covert mass-trial of these Covid vaccines? - I for one will
>> be taking my chances with the flu this year!
You are in the wrong country chummy, you need to move to deepest texas, get yourself a shed full of guns, and join some white supremacy anti federal revolutionary group, threatening to shoot shop keepers who wont let you in because the only mask you have is your "MAGA - Trump cap.
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Booked my 11AM September flight to Spain and yesterday Jet2 cancelled it. I’ve been transferred to the earlier 08:30 flight. I hate short haul early AM flights and rush hour at LBA.
Govt Advice now against all but essential travel to sunny Spain, so consequently invalid travel insurance.
Fingers crossed the situation changes before late September. 8 week rental paid in full. Drat.
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I’ve done the sums. First week gf is joining me. She’s booked just one week off work and doesn’t want to spend 3 days travelling when she can be on a paddle board on the afternoon of day 1.
Friends are coming and going all the time. Fly in. Fly out.
And the cost of driving out solo, driving from N England, sailing from Plymouth, is pretty high. At least 10x more than flying when fuel, ferry, overnight accommodations outbound and inbound are taken into account.
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And that works out cheaper for you than losing the whole accomodation cost because of a cancelled flight?
Not to mention the loss of enjoyment.
If the choice was drive or lose the money/holiday I know which I'd choose.
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Which cancelled flight? I’ve been bumped from an 11:00 flight to an 08:30 flight on the same day.
I won’t lose any accommodation costs. Either claim on my travel insurance, or, the excellent long established family sales and letting agents, (Ferrando’s in Moraira) who own all their rental properties bar one, will let me roll over the monies I’ve paid. Which I did for my aborted May trip. I’ve dealt with them for years, as have several friends, and I have no qualms whatsoever.
Trust me on this, but numerous friends I was with in March, who’d driven out and were renting in several nearby accommodations, were more than a little concerned about driving home. Cancelled ferries, closed borders, hotels closed en route.
Jet2 every time. Their repatriation organisation from Alicante, at the height of the lockdown in March, was nothing short of brilliant.
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I might have got the wrong end of the stick, but I was talking about the 8 week break you'd already paid for in September that I thought you were concerned the flight would be cancelled if things didn't in improve.
Sorry if I misunderstood.
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Esta bien No FM2R. If my late September flight is cancelled so be it. And it would really be super dumb to be overseas against FCO advice with invalid insurance.
Under normal circumstances I take my old mum to Spain in May for two weeks. Friends join me on a freebie to keep her company, stimulate her conversation, push wheelchair etc. That was cancelled, but Jet2 refunded our flight costs within days. Because I have an excellent rapport with the letting company I told them to keep the accommodation rental monies and I’d use it towards my next rental...September.
The rental company do me deals on both long and short term accommodations. Better than their advertised rates. After using them 12+ times they realise I’m not going to trash their villas, leaving them a filthy mess like some punters do, and I appreciate the way they resolve any problems ( Broken WiFi, plumbing, winter heating going kaput) speedy and efficiently. Win win.
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None of my damn business of course, but if you're going for 8 weeks, why not drive, two days journey even if you dawdle, and you have a very nice car to do it in. Master of your own destiny etc. about when you come back and so on too.
Just my thoughts, and indeed what I'd do in your circs.
Edit - beat me to it NoFm
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sat 25 Jul 20 at 21:38
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Or the ferry to Santander? Assuming it's running, I haven't checked.
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...wouldn't bank on it...
Sorry, I'll erm, just...
;-)
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Master of my own destiny anyway. I’ve booked a one way flight. IF my March experience rears it’s ugly head again I’d rather be on a repatriation flight than stuck, unable to cross borders etc. That of course is a worst case scenario.
I’m already planning a trip in Barbie with friends to the Picos in May next year. Hotel and walking base pencilled in.
Last edited by: legacylad on Sat 25 Jul 20 at 22:45
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>> Master of my own destiny anyway.
alas, during these times thats exactly what you aint. And therein lies the problem with travel abroad
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Similar concerns although somewhat later in the year - November. Booked apartment east of Malaga for 6 weeks. Back for Xmas with kids. Then another 6 weeks from early Jan.
Plan was to drive down through France, fly back home for Xmas, drive back to UK end Feb.
Having car down there means no problems with weight of luggage and saves hiring a car when we get there. So drive down probably saves money. Wife does not like Biscay in winter!
But right now I don't have a clue what the situation will be in 4 months time. As politicians keep saying - "hope for the best, plan for the worst". Definitely worth keeping the options open and limit exposure to losses.
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Booked to go back to Tenerife apartment with my new lady friend from 28th October for three weeks. I gather the Spanish authorities are trying to get the Balearics and Canaries excluded from the ban and hopefully will succeed before we go . The infection rate on the islands is much lower than in the UK.
We returned from there on 5th March and just avoided lockdown there which came in a week or so later .
Both in our 70's we do not have to worry about quarantining and have decided that the risk is worth it.
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"...trying to get the Balearics and Canaries excluded from the ban..."
AIUI, there is no ban, only 14 days' quarantine on return to the UK from the whole of Spain.
Spain is now included in the "only essential travel" advice from the UK government, but the Canaries are excepted, so your travel insurance is valid.
However, the 14 days' quarantine presently applies to the Canaries, though they are lobbying hard for the restoration of the air corridor (and therefore no quarantine).
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We do all understand that with COVID-19 nothing has changed. Movement is being allowed solely because the health service in general and ICU specifically has space for you.
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Really???!! I thought everything was OK and i can have my annual all inclusive annual package and get leathered in Benidorm. Is that not so? :))
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The announcement about Spain applied from midnight. Cue lots of people trying to get home before then so they could avoid quarantine. Legally right, morally suspect. The risk of bringing it in is the same whether you land at 11.59 or 12.01.
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Two friends of mine flew to Ibiza yesterday evening with Jet2. They’re home on Thursday. 3 full days in the sun and some sightseeing. I’ve no idea what accommodation they have...I’ll find out in the pub Friday.
One of them works for Jet2. I don’t know if they’ll have to quarantine, but I do like Ibiza. Flew there in February 2019 for 2 nights ex Valencia on a €25 Ryanair flight whilst staying on the mainland. Very quiet that time of year...stayed B & B in Santa Eulalia in rooms above a bar/ cafe.
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You might not find out at the pub on Friday!
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>> You might not find out at the pub on Friday!
As things stand at 09:35 today they're required to self isolate. Offence if they fail to do so.
However there's a lot of pressure to remove the Balearics and the Canaries from the quarantine requirement. They have low rates of Covid, the spikes being in Catalonia and other parts of the Mainland. There's also a mismatch, as noted by James above, between FCO advice which is to avoid non-essential travel to the mainland only and the Health requirement covering all Spanish territory.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 27 Jul 20 at 09:49
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Who knows. He is a retired police officer now working at LBA. His partner has her own bespoke travel agency.
Either they know something we don’t ( highly unlikely) or their combined knowledge leads them to believe that by the time they return from the Balearics on Thursday an air bridge will be in operation and they will no longer have to quarantine.
I suspect the latter.....anyway, to escape our grim weather oop North I’m looking at a last minute 7 day holiday to Crete early August. Never been there. Nice adults only hotel, lots of swimming, paddle boarding and reading in the shade. Alcohol free detox to boot!
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No idea.
I’ll probably buy a Jet2 package and travel with hand luggage, but wait until my travel agent friend returns from Ibiza and ask her to keep an eye out for last minute deals. Only need 48 hours notice ( usually less) but at the moment the Greek authorities, so I’m told by my Jet2 pal, need you to complete an entry form 48 hours before arrival.
On this occasion I’ll be travelling solo, expect to pay the usual huge single occupancy supplement, and look for a good hotel, preferably adults only.
Unlike most hols I’ll be a slob...swimming, paddle boarding, reading and warming my bones. My usual MO when visiting different places is lots of sightseeing and exploring with friends, so It doesn’t matter which part, but happy to listen to advice.
Makes a change from backpacking and wild camping the Wales Coast Path. And drier.
Last edited by: legacylad on Mon 27 Jul 20 at 18:37
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Just seen LBA- Chania return £120 mid August. + transfer. I may reconsider and look for a more luxurious SC place in a complex with lots of space, hopefully by the sea. Then eat out.
Any recommendations please for that part of Crete ?
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Nothing specific LL but last year we hired a car from the airport so were free agents.
SC - The Garden of Zephyrus lovely accommodation and host. On the hillside overlooking Souda Bay.
Put all this into Google Maps even the Garden of Zepyrus to get a bit of an overview.
Chania itself has a charm.
Mrs FC spent a relaxing week SC along the coast the previous year between Maleme Airport and Chania. We had a ride out along the coast and it was quite nice. The further West it got that bit quieter. Plenty of different types of well spaced out accommodation bordering the beach.
A day out in Stavros which was equally nice (Zorba the Greek filming location)
Commonwealth and German cemeteries if you like visiting that sort of thing.
Mountainous backdrop. It was I thought very quiet for May but it was pre-season. I imagine even quieter at the moment. I enjoyed it and would go back.
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A very well respected friend and former colleague paid a visit to the cemeteries you mention. He wandered around the Commonwealth and a couple of UK veterans - despite being very British from Chester originally, a certain awkwardness crept in...his paternal grandfather was involved in the battle...flying a Junkers 52 transport aircraft for the er...other side during the battle of Crete....he sort of slinked away quietly
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I went to Crete thirty-odd years ago and stayed in Chania overnight for an early morning strat to do the Samaria gorge walk. That’s a wonderful experience. Chania itself has a beautiful seafront but it was a busy town with a lot of traffic. It wasn’t the laid back Greece I would be looking for. I can’t believe it’s got better over the years in this respect.
A neighbour goes out every year (Covid excepted) for a month or so to a traditional village on the southern coast. That’s where I’d aim my research. It’s a beautiful island but even all those years ago it had areas of resort development that weren’t very Greek in character.
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Some fair points there Martin. Traditional laid back Greece it isn't. Far more touristy as that's probably its main income.
Id forgotten about the Samaria Gorge. Not something I've done but might be tempting to LL
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I have spent the last 20 years holidaying all over Western Crete and have many friends out there. Depends what you want from your holiday but if you want traditional I would recommend you hire a car from Chania airport and head over towards Paleochora on the south coast. Plenty of places to rent and nice restaurants and plenty of mountain walks and good beaches.I can recommend places if you want.
If you just want to lie on fabulous beaches go to Fallasarna or Elafonisi on the west coast although the latter can get very busy. Mountain villages such as Elos or Kefali are probably too quiet for you but I can recommend some villas there if you want.
You could head along the coast via Malame along to Kissamos and around the west coat via Sfinari which is not too touristy .
As you are a mountain walker I would try walking the Samaria Gorge but you could go the other way from the top of the gorge up to the Kallergi refuge and beyond.
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Some European countries are seeing a localised spike in infections, as well as Leicester and Wrexham in the UK.
Let's hope it's a dead cat bounce rather than the start of another widespread wave of the virus.
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>> Some European countries are seeing a localised spike in infections, as well as Leicester and
>> Wrexham in the UK.
Do you think there is a correlation - either positive or negative, between spikes in infections, e.g. Leicester and Wrexham
and
People voting Leave or remain in the Brexit vote?
People voting Labour or Conservative?
People who had tertiary education?
People who are wealthy or poor?
People who are above or below average intelligence?
People who are working, middle, or upper class?
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Working class areas have a greater population density than the leafy suburbs, so people in those areas would be more prone to coming into contact with a carrier. Sink estates which have far too many people dumped into a tiny space must be especially at risk. The thickos won't take any more notice of social distancing than they do of contraception so that would be a factor, and Asian communities value contact with their extended families very highly and are reluctant to isolate.
In my case social distancing is easy to manage as I live in a village and relatives are far away, but that wouldn't have been the case years ago.
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>> Do you think there is a correlation
Why do you wish to know?
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 28 Jul 20 at 19:39
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>> >> Do you think there is a correlation
>>
>>
>> Why do you wish to know?
>>
1. Why not?
2. I am a keen student of current affairs.
3. To confirm all my prejudices.
4. So that we can direct research and precious resources to the areas and communities where it will be most effective.
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>> 3. To confirm all my prejudices.
Facts are an anathema to a good prejudice, you'd be best off not knowing them.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 29 Jul 20 at 09:01
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I haven't seen any train videos lately? Are you not doing them, or are they not running?
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Steam specials are now running on the Settle Carlisle, with steam traction being added at Hellifield. I watched one at Settle station a few weeks ago, and the Dalesman began operations yesterday.
We’re a bit too far oop North for Z to access.
I don’t know about steam specials further south.
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>> We’re a bit too far oop North for Z to access.
>> I don’t know about steam specials further south.
Nothing yet in my neck of the woods, tho they have started from Bristol to South Wales or Devon. Me currently too busy, a week in Norfolk where I filmed on the North Norfolk railway, and this week back near Norwich on dog training boot camp
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A fine railway, and less of a toy railway than most
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Very true Z.
A few years ago our Lakeland LDWA group were running a checkpoint at Lockton village hall for our national premier event, the annual 100 mile non stop walk.
Lockton is 4 miles north of Pickering, terminus for the NYMR, and a very pretty hamlet it is too. Our group had a few lovely self catering cottages there where we remained after the 100 event, and I highly recommend the location. Nice to drive into Pickering in the evening after most of the tourists have departed.
It’s a lovely part of the world, very different to the Dales and Lakes. Probably horribly busy at the moment but outside of school holidays a fine area to visit with some lovely coastline not too far away
Last edited by: legacylad on Wed 29 Jul 20 at 10:19
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Many thanks for the feedback on Crete. I’ll file it away.
The recent spike in cases, and potential for quarantine returning from additional countries mean I’m holding off from booking. Once a year I have a lazy holiday.....sun, sea, sand, swimming and lots of reading.
I wouldn’t be doing any sightseeing in Crete....probably too warm. I normally spend two weeks in Tenerife immediately prior to the school summer hols....daily trips out with a friend who lives there, long lunch inland away from the crowds, then hit the beach at 4pm.
I have walking groups every Tuesday, Thursday & Sunday, 10/20 miles depending on the weather and conditions underfoot but I’m missing my annual lazy holiday in the sun!
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Astonishing man, he's like a kid who knows he has no friends.
Yet he is POTUS!!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WFnH_EHacY
And of course there are more important things out there than how many people like him...
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 29 Jul 20 at 15:27
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I see there's another round of restrictions in areas across Manchester, Lancashire and West Yorkshire. Biggest local lockdown so far.
On the news there was a reporter in Spain chatting to British tourists, it seemed obligatory to mention how much their holiday cost, it seemed very high to me anyway.
Anyway my point is more that all the tourists seemed amazed that a lockdown and it was now a complete faff to reorganise their way home. I get its the vox pop the media go to, nevertheless it seems a bit naive.
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Jet2 have today cancelled all flights to both Paphos and Larnaca, citing strict Greek entry conditions. I think I mentioned in an earlier post that my Jet2 pal told me passengers had not been allowed to board Greece bound flights at LBA as they had not filled in the requisite documents 48 hours prior to travel.
Maybe there’s a whole bunch of thickos doing likewise resulting in this action.
It’s not looking good for Crete! I’m keeping my powder dry.
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We have now been out of quarantine for 72 hours. In truth I have done nothing of significance with my freedom.
Couple of friends for a couple of beers one day, down the Embassy for a couple of G&Ts another, and up to Starbucks with my daughters for the last.
Trivial.
But I cannot tell you how much better I feel; almost emotional and grateful.
I do hope it's going as well for you all.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 31 Jul 20 at 00:50
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Thanks Sooty, SWMBO will like that.
In early March when we were still in Portugal and it was still getting going, I said to her that we would have a day where the damn virus didn't get discussed, as I found it fairly monotonous back then.
We've not yet had that day!!
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Why would Stamford Hill North have 10 cases, whilst many surrounding areas have none?
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>> Why would Stamford Hill North have 10 cases, whilst many surrounding areas have none?
>>
They have or they have on the version of the map that I'm looking at.
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I'm looking at week 30 and there are 5 other continguous areas with >=3 cases.
Even if what you said was true, isn't that the nature of infectious diseases when cases are connected?
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 31 Jul 20 at 09:35
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We get quite a few flights overhead and during lock-down the number declined dramatically.
This has changed over the last week or so with the number of aircraft increasing.
Today, a BA A380 passed overhead at 16,000 ft on route to LHR from CHATEAUROUX (a small town in France). It roared which is why I looked it up.
With a second wave looking more imminent, it would be nice to see proper testing at airports.
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Not sure airport testing would help much. Anybody importing the disease after a short holiday probably has a better than even chance of being in the incubation period when they pass through the airport.
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>> Today, a BA A380 passed overhead at 16,000 ft on route to LHR from CHATEAUROUX
>> (a small town in France). It roared which is why I looked it up.
I think it had been in store at Chateauroux during lockdown. Struggling to think of a longhaul route that's crying out for an A380.
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>> I think it had been in store at Chateauroux during lockdown.
I thought that but why move it now?
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>> >> I think it had been in store at Chateauroux during lockdown.
>>
>> I thought that but why move it now?
Unload the gin at Heathrow, then down to Cardiff to the scrappers?
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Very good Coronavirus Newscast yesterday. Interview wit AstraZeneca. Very informative and well worth listening to.
On BBC Sounds
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News from the frontline in lockdown Bradford.
A childhood friend has a business in a certain BD postcode. This afternoon the police closed Cemetery Rd as the mosques emptied. Hundreds of worshippers exiting shoulder to shoulder, shaking hands, climbing into cars, even the boot areas. A few uniformed police stood and watched. Social distancing my donkey.
Similarly groups of young teenagers today, 20 strong, having fun by the local river. If anyone was contagious, they’ll have taken it home to their parents by now. At least they’re not making platitudes in the local press unlike the Bradford ‘locals’.
Friends of mine live in BD16. A small hamlet several miles from the centre of Bradford, but still under the auspices of Bfd Met D Council and subject to the same conditions announced yesterday. They had TWO friends coming to their garden late afternoon for a BBQ. Foolishly ( imho) they cancelled because they wanted to adhere to guidelines.
Glad I live out in the sticks.
Last edited by: legacylad on Fri 31 Jul 20 at 21:38
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Why is the rate of infection higher - apparently - in the North than the South?
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Is it rate of infection or detected rate of infection?
Density of population encouraging infection (only in cities though)), demographics affecting severity and therefore detection? Lifestyle? More mobile population? More sociable population?
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>> Why is the rate of infection higher - apparently - in the North than the
>> South?
Because the northerners are ignorant.
(I think thats the answer your prejudices and snobbery are looking for?).
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 1 Aug 20 at 08:50
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I don't think it's controversial to observe that the darker blue parts of Oldham, Rochdale, Halifax, Dewsbury, Bradford, Keighley, Leicester and other places connote some sort of link with a higher proportion of BAME populations.
Sooty's map link
www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=47574f7a6e454dc6a42c5f6912ed7076
The Calderdale MP Craig Whittaker has come under fire for saying that Muslim and BAME communities aren't taking COVID seriously. I think that's a bit of a leap and he was a bit naive to say it. Shared multi-generational housing, density, and the mooted higher vulnerability of some ethnicities should be in the frame somewhere. I dare say age profile comes into it as well.
Frankly the boss and I have a very easy time with the COVID measures - The pensions roll in, we have no work to go to, and we don't share a house with people who are going out to work, school or whatever. To start having a go at people with more challenges in avoiding infection without a clear basis would be a bit glib.
The authorities could probably have targeted this better, but maybe they thought that precisely identifiable BAME areas would look like indirect racism. Just look at the areas:
Greater Manchester:
City of Manchester
Trafford
Stockport
Oldham
Bury
Wigan
Bolton
Tameside
Rochdale
Salford
Lancashire:
Blackburn with Darwen
Burnley
Hyndburn
Pendle
Rossendale
West Yorkshire:
Bradford
Calderdale
Kirklees
My brother lives in Brighouse. It's a town of 40,000 or so that didn't register on Sooty's map but is included in lockdown2 presumably because it is in Calderdale.
But the numbers are all quite small at this level of granularity in such a short time frame.
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My brother lives in Brighouse. It's a town of 40,000 or so that didn't register
>> on Sooty's map but is included in lockdown2 presumably because it is in Calderdale.
But the numbers are all quite small at this level of granularity in such a
>> short time frame.
Brighouse is on there as a ward, it has zero cases in the last week. Although the entire town isn't in a single ward, bailiff Bridge and another ward, which I forgot, cover the reminder of the town.
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>> My brother lives in Brighouse. It's a town of 40,000 or so that didn't register
>> >> on Sooty's map but is included in lockdown2 presumably because it is in Calderdale.
>>
>> But the numbers are all quite small at this level of granularity in such a
>> >> short time frame.
>>
>>
>> Brighouse is on there as a ward, it has zero cases in the last week.
>> Although the entire town isn't in a single ward, bailiff Bridge and another ward, which
>> I forgot, cover the reminder of the town.
Probably Rastrick, but I don't think any of them registered. I wasn't sure how to interpret it. The legend doesn't show grey, and the palest blue is 3-9. Does that mean grey could be 0-2?
Is this linked under another site that has some sort of filters on it?
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Probably Rastrick, but I don't think any of them registered. I wasn't sure how to
>> interpret it. The legend doesn't show grey, and the palest blue is 3-9. Does that
>> mean grey could be 0-2?
Yes I took the grey to mean 0-2.
>> Is this linked under another site that has some sort of filters on it?
No that's it as far as I'm aware
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An acquaintance of mine was involved in some unpleasantness in Brighouse a week ago when some locals Darwinised themselves in the early hours.
Always stop when requested by blues & twos.
A sorry business
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LL - you do realise on the one hand (and in the same post) you are moaning about people breaking the guidelines then saying your friends should have done so...
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>> Glad I live out in the sticks.
Are saying people should or should not follow the rules?
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 1 Aug 20 at 19:53
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I’m a rebel at heart and have always used my own discretion when it comes to obeying rules.
“Stay at Home” were simply words and I chose to ignore it. My self and a few friends were out walking every day, sometimes for several hours, the same few friends socialising every evening in one another’s private gardens whilst taking extreme measures to mitigate against catching COVID. Taking our own drinks, bottle openers, glasses, sitting 2m apart on lawns & patios. Circumstances allowed us to do it so we did. To hell with staying at home cooped up not meeting your friends.
I appreciate it’s difficult to apply rules to one BD postcode and not another, but if my postcode was in lockdown, I lived in a hamlet where the only facility was a post box, had lots of private outdoor space, then I’d have no qualms in inviting 2 friends round for a bbq. Stuff lockdown. We wouldn’t shake hands, they wouldn’t go in my house ( pee in the bushes) sit 1.5m apart and make sure they don’t sneeze in your face!
No one has been in either my house or car since March apart from my old mum. Lots of people have been on my patios making merry whilst social distancing.
Probably that’s playing hard and fast with the ‘rules’ but generally I try my best. The only shopping I do is for food...normally done 30 minutes before closing time when quietest. Beer shopping, pubs and beer gardens, is done midweek only, normally afternoon or early evening when plenty of space. My favourite watering hole, the Talbot in Settle, has a large beer garden, tables seating 8, literally several metres apart, around which a max of 3 of us will sit, with table service and proper beer. Perfect on a warm afternoon after a good walk.
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>> I’m a rebel at heart and have always used my own discretion when it comes
>> to obeying rules.
>> “Stay at Home” were simply words and I chose to ignore it. My self and
>> a few friends were out walking every day, sometimes for several hours, the same few
>> friends socialising every evening in one another’s private gardens whilst taking extreme measures to mitigate
>> against catching COVID. Taking our own drinks, bottle openers, glasses, sitting 2m apart on lawns
>> & patios. Circumstances allowed us to do it so we did. To hell with staying
>> at home cooped up not meeting your friends.
I'd say you and the people you criticise are of one and the same. You just draw the line in a different place. Not poking you with a stick over it, just suggesting if you want to meet your friends and to hell with rules you can't really be too critical of those that do the same.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 1 Aug 20 at 09:08
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Agree. I’ve been poked with worse.
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Most of the rules have been set by a London (or large city) centric view of the world where very close proximity to ones fellow humans is normal.
A generalisation - Bradford is a city with fairly high density housing in many area, and low socio-economic position. It is completely different in character and demographics from a low density rural environment.
Limiting close contact with others is the intent of the rules to reduce virus transmission. For some this means slavish adherence to a rule book. For others this means using some common sense.
Sadly there is nothing common about common sense!
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Nice lot of info here
www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-surveillance-reports#history
Look at the first report - week 31. Loads to read, lots of diagrams. If you haven't got the stamina, there is a summary on page 1.
Which leaves the question, why are things so bad in Blackburn with Darwen? Living conditions, density of housing?
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>> Which leaves the question, why are things so bad in Blackburn with Darwen? Living conditions,
>> density of housing?
Like parts of Bradford and Leicester Blackburn is a former textile area that drew in a large number of first generation immigrants, mainly Muslims. So like those places it will have streets of very dense population with multi-generational households. As well as the population density I suspect there may be disproportionate numbers of older people, relatively low incomes and the apparent vulnerability of BAME groups to Covid will also be factors.
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And for some sectors of the population there is complete and utter disregard for either.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Sat 1 Aug 20 at 11:00
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I do get that the guidelines are there for a reason.
I've managed to stick to the rules and apply common sense where there are no rules or the rules could be interpreted and I know many others who have. There's nothing "slavish" about sticking to rules, that's only a concept which those who would break them would consider.
Isn't it unlawful to not stick to the rules? And unlawful not in a nice, cheeky chappy way really. It's not even a victimless lawlessness, like speeding or being drunk - it's more of a disregard for your own safety and, maybe more importantly, the safety and well-being of others.
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>>I’m a rebel at heart and have always used my own discretion when it comes to obeying rules.
Same here. The only time I've worn a face nappy is when I went to view an olde cottage up on Bodmin Moor
(St Neot) recently.
But even then it was only for a couple of minutes because when the agent asked me to remove my shoes, I was orf,
likewise the nappy.
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I sometimes wish the docs were able to use their discretion about whether to treat you if you did catch it.
I'm sure you'd expect them to wear masks so they didn't transmit anything nasty to you while treating you.
Pretty selfish really...
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>>I'm sure you'd expect them to wear masks so they didn't transmit anything nasty to you while treating you.
I don't 'do' doctors, you know that.
>>Pretty selfish really...
Not at all really, my wife wears a face nappy when going into shops - I don't do shops.
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Is calling it a "face nappy" instead of simply a "face mask" supposed to prove something? Like you're some tough, dismissive sort who disdains such things?
Because in reality it makes you sound like a petulant t***.
Another example of why I have hopes that the advent of COVID-19 will raise the average IQ of the human race.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 1 Aug 20 at 17:17
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They look like nappies to me, at least my wife has some nice washable ones. Personally, I'd use a bandana or just a scarf.
>>Another example of why I have hopes that the advent of COVID-19 will raise the average IQ of the human race.
The virus is indiscriminate so could well whip your ass as anybody else's.
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>>The virus is indiscriminate so could well whip your ass as anybody else's.
On a level playing field, then of course it could.
But if you put all the stupid, reckless arrogant people in one group, and all the sensible, intelligent, common sense people in the other, then guess which group will have the better survival/avoidance rate?
And which will contain the most stupid people?
And what will happen to the average IQ, not withstanding the failings of IQ as a measurement of intelligence.
>>I'd use a bandana or just a scarf.
Yes, I expect you would. Rather makes my point for me, wouldn't you say?
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Whatever you say my sensible, intelligent, common sense person
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>> News from the frontline in lockdown Bradford.
>> A childhood friend has a business in a certain BD postcode. This afternoon the police
>> closed Cemetery Rd as the mosques emptied. Hundreds of worshippers exiting shoulder to shoulder, shaking
>> hands, climbing into cars, even the boot areas. A few uniformed police stood and watched.
>> Social distancing my donkey.
The announcements here came just 90 minutes before Eid al Adha began; a festival one of my Muslim former colleagues describes as the Islamic Christmas. I wonder how the indigenous population would have reacted if a similar announcement were made at 21:30 on Christmas Eve when all the food and pressies were bought and people were readying themselves for midnight mass.
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>> The announcements here came just 90 minutes before Eid al Adha began; a festival one
>> of my Muslim former colleagues describes as the Islamic Christmas. I wonder how the indigenous
>> population would have reacted if a similar announcement were made at 21:30 on Christmas Eve
>> when all the food and pressies were bought and people were readying themselves for midnight
>> mass.
What percentage, would you guess, of the indigenous population, worship, not just by going to a carol service on Christmas Eve, but through the year?
If the British population were told at 21.30 on the 24th December that they couldn't go to church, they would laugh and say "well, we weren't going anyway!"
How many actually practice the faith?
2%? 5%?
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>> Why would Stamford Hill North have 10 cases, whilst many surrounding areas have none?
Why, presented with a map of the whole of the country might one go, rat up a drainpipe style, for Stamford Hill.
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>> >> Why would Stamford Hill North have 10 cases, whilst many surrounding areas have none?
>>
>> Why, presented with a map of the whole of the country might one go, rat
>> up a drainpipe style, for Stamford Hill.
I live in Surrey, just inside the M25, in the SouthWest sector. When I clicked on the link, I naturally looked at my own area first, not sure if it is zero, or 'data suppressed'. I then, perhaps, understandably looked to see where the were heavier concentrations. These were light grey in colour, the next concentration up was coloured light blue. There was only one area in blue that I could see, clicked on that - ah! Stamford hill North. What is Stamford Hill North called in common parlance? Don't know. Who lives there? Don't know.
I don't understand the reference to rats and drainpipes? Why didn't you ask me why I chose that area, rather than make some snide remark?
I think that you are by implication trying to accuse me of something, but I don't know what.
I am genuinely intrigued by the different levels of infections in different parts of the country - and why.
www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=47574f7a6e454dc6a42c5f6912ed7076
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Too late for edit.
Just Googled 'Stamford Hill North', it seems it is an area popular with Orthodox Jews.
Well, I never knew that.
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>> Just Googled 'Stamford Hill North', it seems it is an area popular with Orthodox Jews.
>>
>> Well, I never knew that.
I later recalled that I had seen a TV documentary some years ago about the communities of orthodox Jews in this area of London.
They are incredibly family and group orientated and supporting. Very unusually, there was one of there number who was a drug addict. The help that the addict received from others in the group was quite remarkable.
I suppose living in a close family group has its downside when something like Covid is circulating.
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>> Just Googled 'Stamford Hill North', it seems it is an area popular with Orthodox Jews.
>>
>> Well, I never knew that.
I'm genuinely surprised that somebody living within hailing distance of the capital and presumably having visited it regularly and probably worked in it didn't recognise the Orthodox connection with that part of London.
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>>I think that you are by implication trying to accuse me of something, but I don't know what.
Just standard finding racism where there isn't any. All part of seeking offence on behalf of others and signalling one's own virtue..
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It seems that communities with a very strong belief in the wisdom of an almighty, all powerful believe that He (the blessed one) will come to their aid and smite the virus from their community.
The are sadly mistaken - be they muslim, jew or any other religious grouping. They need to understand that their prayers will not be answered, they are just like other mortals!!
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And this is the same "Almighty" who let the virus develop and spread in the first place.
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>> It seems that communities with a very strong belief in the wisdom of an almighty,
>> all powerful believe that He (the blessed one) will come to their aid and smite the virus from their community.
Do they? I don't remember anyone saying that. Which communities in particular or is this just another general swipe at those who believe in God?
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>>Do they? I don't remember anyone saying that
Oh some of them certainly have. But the religious sector of humanity is no more exempt from raging nutters than the non-religious sectors.
It's just that religious nutters seem to raise the ire in others so quickly that the fact they are a minority seems to get forgotten.
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>> >>Do they? I don't remember anyone saying that
>>
>> Oh some of them certainly have. But the religious sector of humanity is no more
>> exempt from raging nutters than the non-religious sectors.
>>
>> It's just that religious nutters seem to raise the ire in others so quickly that
>> the fact they are a minority seems to get forgotten.
But they come in so many different flavours, they are always newsworthy
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It is not a swipe at believers. I wholly accept that there are those who do believe in a God, and have every right to do so.
But in the case of CV-19 some religious communities have seen infection rates well above the general population. Whether this arises from an embedded sense of community, cultural behaviours, socio economic factors, or adherence to religious ritual is questionable.
Thus the original comment was made somewhat "tongue in cheek".
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>> I live in Surrey, just inside the M25, in the SouthWest sector. When I clicked
>> on the link, I naturally looked at my own area first, not sure if it
>> is zero, or 'data suppressed'.
>> I am genuinely intrigued by the different levels of infections in different parts of the
>> country - and why.
>>
>>
>> www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=47574f7a6e454dc6a42c5f6912ed7076
You and I live in an affluent area with nice local but dispersed services in largish residences with nice usable private gardens where lockdown was easy, and coming out even easier with no need to go out an earn a crust to make up for lost income
Thats not the case in an HMO in the back streets of bradford(* insert your inner city sink estate of choice here)
It is astonishingly easy to see why, and I am surprised you need to keep asking. Why do you keep asking when you know the answer?
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 1 Aug 20 at 21:42
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May I, and Lady Duncan, be the first to give a very heartfelt thank you to all the tax paying forum contributors on Car4play. We have just had a most enjoyable lunch in Ripley and you paid half of the bill!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53631611
It really is remarkably generous of you. Thank you all very much indeed.
No. I am not joking.
Yes, we have been out to lunch.
Yes, you did pay half.
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I’m over there tomorrow. Dumping barbiemobile at Pateley B then a 20 mile saunter along the Nidderdale Way. Forecast is for much drier weather than further West near chez LL.
A nice pint of Taylor’s Boltmaker at the Sportsmans Wath on Nidd last Thursday. Very pleasant sat outside late afternoon when we’d almost completed our walk.
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>> nice pint of Taylor's Boltmaker
Lovely stuff, what they used to call the bitter I believe. More sensible than the Landlord if you're thirsty.
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>>We have just had a most enjoyable lunch in Ripley and you paid half of the bill!
When this scheme was announced, I foolishly imagined that "50% off" meant "50% off". We did a quick online check through the menu at a local eatery, calculated the total bill for two to be about £90 and thought, ooh yes, all that for £45, you're on, we'll go.
I either misread it or the government didn't mention at the time that there's a £10 cap per diner on the discount, so actually our £90 meal for two isn't £45 at all, but £70. Considerably less attractive I fear.
Oh well.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Mon 3 Aug 20 at 17:26
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>> I either misread it or the government didn't mention at the time that there's a
>> £10 cap per diner on the discount, so actually our £90 meal for two isn't
>> £45 at all, but £70. Considerably less attractive I fear.
>>
>> Oh well.
It's all very well for you wealthy types. Poor people like me can only dream of being able to afford a meal costing more than £20 a head.
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A £90 for two meal for us is very very very very rare. Very.
About once every two or three years.
The rest of the time I can assure you it's a tenner or less for tea and a bun at the garden centre.
All of which is why I was drawn to the 50% thing in the first place.
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>>A £90 for two meal for us is very very very very rare. Very.
This is often a discussion point in our circles. Once a year, usually Jan, Feb time we will go for an overnight to Oban and have a slap up meal in one of the fish restaurants where the bill may reach that. Other than that, we have a few local curry and Italian restaurants that we love and we can get fed and watered for about £25 a head and know that we are going to be well fed and enjoy our meal.
At my last workplace, they used to go for a Christmas night out and it would often work out around £100 a head between over inflated meals and drinks. For that same money, the missus and I could have an overnight and a meal somewhere. I know which I would prefer!
We used to like treating ourselves to an occasional fillet steak meal, usually birthdays, but my son has developed some excellent culinary skills during lockdown and I can't see us willingly ordering a steak anywhere but my own kitchen now!
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1/4 of what you eat keeps you alive, the other 3/4 keeps your doctor alive.
:)
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>>A £90 for two meal for us is very very very very rare. Very.
And for us. My daughter offered a couple of times to take us to Midsummer House, which I guess you will know, for our birthdays. But I just couldn't thoil it, even though I wouldn't have been paying. My wife was a bit disappointed which I felt slightly bad about.
I never fully enjoy 'fine dining' although £45 a nob won't buy you that of course. It can be interesting (or ridiculous) but it's never as glorious as fish and chips in Whitby. I wasn't brought up to be an epicure.
LL will know what thoil means.
Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 4 Aug 20 at 00:30
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Thoil is an oft used Yorkshire word.
Today’s car park at Pateley Bridge, adjacent to the Nidd, is £1.80 for 24 hours. The ticket machine has now been adapted to accept contactless. I won’t thoil paying at any of the 10 YDNPark car parks which charge £2.70 up to 2 hours and £4.80 over.
I consider the YDNP Authority to be pretty useless with a lot of things, especially planning and enforcement. If they charged less more people would pay to use their car parks instead of abandoning cars on verges etc. Malham being a case in point.
And don’t get me going on farmers who cut down trees without the correct permissions, decimate hedgerows during the nesting season, and the Authority does nothing about it. Grrr.
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I don’t quite get the idea of this initiative. I guess most people aren’t going to restaurants, not because they can’t afford it but because the feel it unsafe to do so. If you feel unsafe will ten quid allay that fear?
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Mrs O'Reliant and myself decided last Christmas that we'd stick two quid each in a pot every week and have our dinner out this Christmas, leaving someone else to do the cooking and washing up. Depending on the situation in December that little plan is in the balance.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 4 Aug 20 at 02:21
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Went to the local Beefeater tonight with Mrs Z and the kids, and they did 50% of the entire bill (save alcoholic drinks).
Distancing was well managed and the steaks were very nice.
Will be doing the same for some independents over the next few weeks.
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>> It's all very well for you wealthy types. Poor people like me can only dream
>> of being able to afford a meal costing more than £20 a head.
That would have been the jovial sailor then
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>>
>> That would have been the jovial sailor then
>>
Not Toby Cottage?
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>>
>> Not Toby Cottage?
>>
Toby, or not Toby, that is the question....
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>> >>
>> >> That would have been the jovial sailor then
>> >>
>> Not Toby Cottage?
He did say less than 20 quid a head
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I rarely eat out, and when I do I’ve change from £20. Local curry, full works, starters, mains, chappatis circa£15. BYO booze. Glasses provided.
My normal eating out place is £9.99. Two courses, pot of tea. Not much choice, but it’s freshly made, not microwave stuff.
I just couldn’t bring myself to pay £20 for a steak when I can buy a fantastic sirloin from my butcher for a fiver.
I’ve booked a table locally for Wednesday lunchtime...proper gammon, 2 eggs, chips and peas £11.95. Sticky toffee pudding with ice cream £4.95. For £8.50 it’s a good deal.
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>>proper gammon, 2 eggs, chips and peas £11.95. Sticky toffee pudding with ice cream £4.95. For £8.50 it's a good deal.
I'm moving oop north, sounds better than pie, mash and liquor!
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Aberdeen has now been put on Lockdown and all the pubs and bars closed which seems to be where transmission of the virus is occurring.
Drinking and social distancing are clearly not compatible and much as it grieves me to say so I think that until a vaccine is found pubs will have to be closed once more if there is to be any chance of containing the disease
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53666665
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It's not just drinking that make social distancing difficult, any socialising does. The virus was being transmitted even when the pubs and bars were closed.
My local seems OK, it is a dreadful place but then it was before the virus :-) but social distancing seems to be being practised properly and procedures are being followed on the small number of times I've been there. I do accept that there are pubs which attract much larger and younger people but if the pubs are shut they will congregate elsewhere.
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Yes any socialising is difficult but when drink becomes involved social distancing goes out of the window. We're seeing this both in the UK and other parts of Europe.
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Maybe the ( painful for some ) compromise would be to allow pubs and restaurants to remain open, but not permit them to serve alcohol. People are, by and large, more socially responsible when they are not drinking alcohol.
Not ideal, but might be preferable to total closure.
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The virus is transmitted mainly through social contact.
In Aberdeen it may be pubs. In Bradford it may have been the mosque. In Leicester it may be through the poor working environment.
We will go through several local lockdowns until people get the message - taking a risk aand ignoring proper procedures and discipline will lead to more disruptive local lockdown.
The only question is how long it will take for the stupid or ignorant or selfish get the message.
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You won't get to the point where there are no outbreaks. It's unavoidable, people will want to meet up and will do so.
Stopping the pubs serving beer will do nothing apart from put loads completely out of business, people will just meet more often in houses.
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>> The only question is how long it will take for the stupid or ignorant or
>> selfish get the message.
Many will get the message but won't act on it if they aren't personally afraid of catching COVID. It's one of those situations where compliance is for the benefit of others, and frequently in conflict with the interest of the individual.
Enforcement is the only way if compliance is really needed, and the easiest way of doing that is to close the pubs or at least have the powers to close those who don't succeed with compliance.
Our local is actually quite good. Small interior, one bubble in, one out, Post Office queue-style route from the entrance passes the bar where you get your drinks, to the back yard where there are some spaced apart seating/standing areas, and a party tent with more separated tables in it. There is a separate route back to the pub entrance for refills.
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I'm not sure if any of you go to any pubs, or read papers other than the DM, but not all pubs are full of drink crazed people who've lost their inhibitions. Unbelievable though it may seem, there are quite a few people who go out for a social drink or two with their partner, family or friends and manage to remain reasonably sober and in control!!
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Actually I visited the Buckinghamshire Arms at Blickling on Sunday and the White Horse at Upton yesterday. In both I sat in the beer garden and both were well organised ands felt safe. I don’t think the problem lies with that type of establishment. It’s crowded city centre pubs we need to worry about especially once the winter arrives. You cannot avoid being close to people in a pub and combined with poor ventilation and the lack of inhibitition that affects people even after a few drinks they will inevitably be a prime source of virus spread.
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Been out to several pubs for a drink and meal since reopening, all of them have done the social distancing and precautions very well. Its been an unworried pleasant return to something like normality.
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Agreed, two distinct different venues / target market. The "meal out" folks and the "going out drinking" folks.
One report I have seen on social media (which obviously means it's true), was that two guys came back from Spain, ignored quarantine rules and went on a pub crawl in Aberdeen. Probably not true but did make me think
1. If you had the symptoms and were one of life's "not nice people" then you may be inclined to follow this course of action.
2. How many of us, if we receive a phone call advising that we have possibly been in contact with a Covid person, would agree to isolate even though we had no symptoms?
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Coronavirus - Volume 21 - No FM2R
