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IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ
Before discussions start in this thread, I would like to point out that any petty arguments, personal attacks, or any other infringement of house rules, etc. will be deleted where we feel fit from now on.
We will not give notice that we have deleted something. Nor will we enter into discussion why something was deleted. That will also be deleted.
It seems that discussion about Brexit brings out the worst in some people.
Be nice, Play nice, and control your temper. Your co-operation would be appreciated.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 18 Oct 19 at 02:46
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Brexit: Nigel Farage election pact proposal rejected by No 10
www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49665789
Predictable. But reading the comments below is depressing.
"remainers wont be so chirpy when Boris and Nigel are in charge of our country. And what a dream team thay will be too. "
"Nigel Farage speaks a lot of sense. The Leavers ( me included ) will be voting for the Bresit party. The Tories and Labour will be obliterated bar London. This guy has faced ridicule in the EU parliament for 20 years and has always stuck up for this country and said we will leave. I know who I would trust and his name is Nigel Farage"
"All the hot air and talk in the world will not alter the facts. Nigel Farage has a very large following by those who are not taken in by the media propaganda and lies. The Cons will suffer the consequences with no pact, and a General Election will expose the truth. Bring it on! "
This is what happens when you take your eye of the education ball. The gap gets filled.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 11 Sep 19 at 20:32
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>> "remainers wont be so chirpy when Boris and Nigel are in charge of our country.
>> And what a dream team thay will be too. "
Boris, to his credit, (am I saying that?) seems to be saying he won't touch Farage with a barge pole.
Which is quite right; for all the chirpy 'Hale Fellow Well Met' image he's actually a very thin skinned one man band with no sensitivity whatsoever.
Agree about education - leavers do seem to feature those who's posts make my attempts to keep the duty pedant busy look amateur.
I've been accused elsewhere this week of being part of a group called 'remainders' - that was somebody in Thurrock posting in a Yorkshire themed forum......
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>> I've been accused elsewhere this week of being part of a group called 'remainders' -
I quite like that. I'd take that as a badge of honour, if I were you.
We are........
......... the REMAINDERS"
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>> >>>>
>> Boris, to his credit, (am I saying that?) seems to be saying he won't touch
>> Farage with a barge pole.
>>
>> >>
That's this week. He'll quite likely be saying the opposite next week.
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Some stuff published tonight:
tinyurl.com/yy2oll7p (pdf on .gov website)
It's taken under two hours for content of redacted paragraph - petrol supplies - to leak.
When will they ever learn?
Edited to replace full link that was mucking up site formatting with shorter tiny url
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 11 Sep 19 at 21:45
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When I was a project manager, even on comparatively minor projects we always carried out a risk analysis. It's what project managers do. Often we "brain dumped" them with all stakeholders and explored (and recorded) all and any concerns, including the extreme and sometimes bizarre, and came up with a likelihood score and a mitigation.
To be fair, this document is headed "HMG Reasonable Worst Case Assumptions", and as such is just that. A list of worst case assumptions, not a prediction. It's probably a small part of a massive planning document.
Of course it's bound to be presented somewhat out of context by the press. I'd call it sensationalism but others use the term Project Fear - and in this case I'd have to agree, to some extent.
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>>
>> To be fair, this document is headed "HMG Reasonable Worst Case Assumptions", and as such
>> is just that. A list of worst case assumptions, not a prediction.
>>
It is headed that now it has been released. The leaked version of the same document was headed "Base Scenario" as confirmed by Rosamund Urwin of the Sunday Times (who has also released the contents of the redacted paragraph0.
I thought Andrea Leadsom had said the contents were too scary to release, so they were intending not to comply with Parliament's request.
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Andy Hamilton had it right, as far as I am concerned. It worth a listen from the beginning, but the particular piece of his that I empathised with is about 7:45 in.
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07m281t
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Look what's crawled out from under a rock....
www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49690618
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>Look what's crawled out from under a rock....
To sell his book.
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>>
>> To sell his book.
>>
...give him his due, though; It's the most focused piece of work he's done since he entered politics......
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Metropolitan Police announced yesterday they will not be proceeding against Aaaron Banks/Leave.eu over allegations of breaches of law during referendum. Statements cites lack of evidence:
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/13/met-to-take-no-further-action-over-leaveeu-spending-breaches-arron-banks
Surprised this hasn't been bigger news, in particular that Banks supporters haven't been tupeting it all over social media.
Equally, I suspect others will seek review of decision.
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>> Metropolitan Police announced yesterday they will not be proceeding against Aaaron Banks/Leave.eu over allegations of
>> breaches of law during referendum. Statements cites lack of evidence:
I heard this on R4 and thought it was the CPS that chose whether to prosecute or not?
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The Met statment is here:
news.met.police.uk/news/update-lnvestigation-into-leave-dot-eu-381332
Seems there is a channel, 'Early Investigative Advice' where Police can seek advice from CPS while investigation is ongoing:
www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/police-and-cps-relations
CPS advice was presumably that the evidence so far, and/or that in prospect, was not likely to clear the prosecution threshold for prospect of conviction. Investigation discontinued. Could probably be resumed if significant new evidence emerges.
I suspect that lawyers such as Jolyon Maugham's Good Law Project will be all over decision for possible challenge on public interest grounds.
There is also still an investigation by the National Crime Agency which may give putative defendants more to worry about.
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Sam Gyimah has thrown in his lot with the Lib Dems.
MP for East Surrey. Past record suggests it's as safe as houses for Tories, held with 50% of vote even in 1997.
Close to Zero's place I think. Any thoughts Z?
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Our Prime Minister ducks out of a press conference with the Luxembourg
What an inept embarrassment that man is.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49709430
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The BBC report seems to suggest a small but very noisy crowd and a lot of language not suitable for the news as the reason for the abandonment of the outside "press conference", doesn't seem unreasonable.
I do share your opinion of BJ though.
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the ineptness is in the way walking out of a press conference will play.
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"The BBC report seems to suggest a small but very noisy crowd"
It wasn't the same bunch of vocal Bremainials who hi-jacked the Last Night of the Proms, was it? Oh the sweet irony when they sang 'Britons never, never, never shall be slaves'. Or did they shut up for that bit?
Bwa ha ha ha ha ha etc.
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Oh gawd the old "we have been enslaved by the EU" garbage again, Better than being on our knees sucking Donald Trumps dick.
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>> Close to Zero's place I think. Any thoughts Z?
None from me, mine is the now sacked ex chancellor.
Its true tory country, if you put up a blue rhododendron for election it would win.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 16 Sep 19 at 18:40
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if you can find a blue rhododendron please let me know. It will be worth millions. I'll even call it "Zero"
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>> if you can find a blue rhododendron please let me know. It will be worth
>> millions. I'll even call it "Zero"
call it 20 quid
www.thompson-morgan.com/p/rhododendron-blue-silver/TKA1388TM
www.thompson-morgan.com/p/rhododendron-blue-diamond/tka1386TM
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 16 Sep 19 at 20:47
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>> Sorry
>>
>> That ain't blue.
Suggest you take that up with trading standards. Not my problem
Now where is my 20 quid?
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< I'll even call it "Zero"
>>
>> call it 20 quid
>>
.. that's an even worse name than Zero...
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>> < I'll even call it "Zero"
>> >>
>> >> call it 20 quid
>> >>
>>
>> .. that's an even worse name than Zero...
Its 20 times better than zero
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Actually I see I'm too late
He already has one named after him.
tinyurl.com/y4afzm4s
:-)
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They are all purple, or mauve, if you prefer.
Not blue.
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>> Actually I see I'm too late
>> He already has one named after him.
>>
>>
>>
>> tinyurl.com/y4afzm4s
So its only blue when it suits you?
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OK,, you're right. You can delete the blue..
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Circuses are struggling to fill clown positions as top prospects are often heading into politics instead, it’s emerged.
The number of circus clowns has shrunk to a dangerously low level – and politics is being blamed for snatching up all the best prospects.
‘We used to have half a dozen clowns in our circus. Now we have just one because the rest have retired or gone into politics. And young prospects aren’t even considering a career in the circus any more,’ said Richard Majesty, a worried ringmaster.
‘You just have to look at the current political figures to see where they’ve snatched talent from us. Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Jeremy Corbyn all would have made excellent clowns. Even across the pond, they have Donald Trump,’ Majesty sighed.
Circuses have found they just can’t compete with the money and attention that surrounds politics. Instead, a group of circuses are considering joining forces to become their own political party.
‘Although I doubt anyone will notice anything different about us,’ said Richard.
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Supreme Court* says prorogation unlawful.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49810261
Anusol for Bozo.
*unanimous decision from the 11 judges.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 24 Sep 19 at 11:04
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Summary of SC judgement here:
www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2019-0192-summary.pdf
Only bright spot for Boris is they don't seem to have found him to have deliberately misled Her Maj. That I think would have done for him.
I guess government will be examining full decision in close detail to see whether they can remake prorogation legally. On face of summary though that is not going to be easy.
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You have to hand it to Johnson. The Labour party have been tearing themselves to shreds this week in a blaze of publicity and he gives them a massive get out of jail card by sticking the gun down the waistband of his pants without checking the safety catch.
What a prat.
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The Scottish case on appeal was that he had misled the Queen and as that verdict had been upheld the Court has effectively confirmed that he did mislead the Queen
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>> The Scottish case on appeal was that he had misled the Queen and as that
>> verdict had been upheld the Court has effectively confirmed that he did mislead the Queen
>>
I think they sidestepped that one - see final para on page 2 of the summary.
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Nancy Pelosis expected to announce formal impeachment enquiry into Donald Trump this evening.
A remarkable day.
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So Boris "profoundly disagrees" with the Supreme Court's decision, but "respects" it.
It's the rule of Law, Bojo.
This clown needs to go.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 14 Oct 19 at 10:30
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"This clown needs to go"
Yes indeed. Let's see what Jeremy can do.
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>>Let's see what Jeremy can do.
I hope not - would be at least as bad economically as Brexit.
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>> >>Let's see what Jeremy can do.
>>
>> I hope not - would be at least as bad economically as Brexit.
Brexit and Corbyns old fashioned communist policies would kill us all off.
It can't happen tho, Brexit would make borrowing the money to carry them out impossible.
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>> >>
>> Yes indeed. Let's see what Jeremy can do.
>>
He won't get the chance. A different Labour leader might, but Jezza has as much chance of being PM as I have.
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>>Jezza has as much chance of being PM as I have.
If that's the competition I've got a tenner on you.
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>It's the rule of Law, Bojo.
A law that is now officially on the books.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 14 Oct 19 at 10:31
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>>A law that is now officially on the books.
It was a no-brainer for the Judiciary - I'm concerned the English High Court made the wrong decision in the first place.
If their decision was upheld, it would mean any PM could pretty much prorogue parliament on a whim in perpetuity.
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>> If their decision was upheld, it would mean any PM could pretty much prorogue parliament
>> on a whim in perpetuity.
Spot on. We're in midst of biggest set of constitutional decision making since joining Common Market. Only because Common Market has evolved since 1973 it's much bigger.
Even if government could get/has got away with manipulating prorogation in past to get NHS legislation through or avoid reports on 'cash for questions' that is just 'whataboutery' in current context.
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I've just wasted the last hour or so debating this point on FB with a local Tory Councillor and wannabee MP who is a contemporary of my kids. .
Just a bit of fun and intellectual challenge, shooting fish in a barrel, until he describes the Supreme Court justices as 'geriatrics'.
I've met Baroness Hale and Lord Carnwath professionally, the latter as far back as 40 years ago when he was a practising barrister doing planning/land/local government stuff. Hale was at Law Commission for a while and a former member of 'the quango'; gone by my time but still active in the system.
He's Eton>Oxbridge>Inns of Court and has the accent and persona you'd expect but still lives in real world. She's state educated and worked her way up through academia. If you met her in a bus queue you'd not gain a clue as to her professional role.
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I wonder if any of the judiciary involved voted 'leave' in the referendum.
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Certainly not all of them, so some of them did, your point is?
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 24 Sep 19 at 21:48
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Well as it was unanimous, then No.
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>Bias.
Who do you trust most? Politicians or the Supreme Court? If we can't trust the highest court in the land then we are seriously down the pan.
Last edited by: Kevin on Tue 24 Sep 19 at 23:48
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I think in this modern world often accusations of bias are an easy substitution for understanding and reality.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 25 Sep 19 at 00:05
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>> I wonder if any of the judiciary involved voted 'leave' in the referendum.
Even adjusting for social class etc you might guess that in 48 v 52 scenario out of eleven three or four might be leavers.
But why does it matter?
Do you think that, given judicial oath etc, even a panel of solid leavers would have said yeah Boris - do what you like?
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It was nothing to do with Brexit. We know that because Boris said so.
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When he prorogued parliament Bojo said it was nothing to do with Brexit.
Now its been declared illegal, he says its an attempt to derail Brexit.
Jacob Rees Mogg has suddenly gone very quiet.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 25 Sep 19 at 08:57
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>> When he prorogued parliament Bojo said it was nothing to do with Brexit.
Exactly.
>> Jacob Rees Mogg has suddenly gone very quiet.
Small mercies.
I wonder if Attorney General Geoffrey Cox's advice on prorogation amounted to "whatever you do, do mention that it could in any way be related to Brexit - stick to the Queen's speech".
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>> I wonder if Attorney General Geoffrey Cox's advice on prorogation amounted to "whatever you do,
>> do mention that it could in any way be related to Brexit - stick to
>> the Queen's speech".
>>
Is that a typo? Should 'do' read 'don't'?
Although in these uncertain times......
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Is that a typo?
Correct. Very annoying when an error reverses the meaning!
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>> Is that a typo?
>>
>> Correct. Very annoying when an error reverses the meaning!
Bit like Bojo trying to Prorogue parliament then.
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So who "really" runs the Country? 11 old geriatrics of the Judiciary or Parliament? - Some MP's spouting that Boris acted illegally and mis-led the Queen, how? - when B declared it (prorogation) there was no law about it ,or that it wan't legal, - until the "geriatrics" decided it was and ruled that way! - at least it ""looks" like Boris is actually trying to deliver on the referendum, which is what 17.5 mill folk voted for, most of the 600 odd + MP's are more bothered about their own backsides and are rubbing most of the Countries noses in them!
Utter disgraces - all of them, none should see inside Parliament again after an election!
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 14 Oct 19 at 10:32
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Clearly you have about as much genuine respect for the law, the separation of powers and the judiciary as Bozo.
They were unanimous. I am quite sure they applied the law and the constitution as they saw them.
They may be old, some of them. But they don't need to think quickly, just properly. And I wouldn't fancy myself to get the better of Lady Hale in a debate.
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>> So who "really" runs the Country? 11 old geriatrics of the Judiciary
Would you have been happy if they were all 20 odd?
>> Some MP's spouting that Boris acted illegally and mis-led the Queen, how? - when B
>> declared it (prorogation) there was no law about it ,or that it wan't legal, -
>> until the "geriatrics" decided it was and ruled that way!
Checks and balances, no one's got free reign to do as they please for any reason on important matters.
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>> So who "really" runs the Country? 11 old geriatrics of the Judiciary or Parliament? -
Let's knock 'geriatric' on the head. In proper usage it refers to (usually) medical etc considerations for those who are suffering from age related medical conditions. While there's no fixed age it usually refers to those over 75.
Colloquially/informally it might mean decrepit, old or outdated.
Baroness Hale is nearly 75 and will have to retire when she hits that milestone. That's been the law since 1959 - no judge may sit beyond that age. The normal retirement age now, since 1993 is 70 but the Lord Chancellor can approve individual judges continuing until the absolute deadline of 75. I think in Brenda Hales' case she can stay until 75 because she was first appointed to bench before 1993.
As Boris was quite clear, at least until yesterday that prorogation was nothing to do with Brexit I'm not sure why the 17.5 million is a clincher.
Boris is trying to deliver on Brexit for his own reasons - his credibility with the members of his own party. If he was serious about delivering Brexit he could have voted for May's deal and we'd have left by now.
It's the ultimate irony that the leave brigade blame 'remoaners' for us not having left when it was their very own ERG that blocked it months ago.
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Gosh, what have you been reading lately?
>> So who "really" runs the Country? 11 old geriatrics of the Judiciary or Parliament? -
The Government runs the country in accordance with the law. So the Judiciary does not rule on anything except the question of legality. I don't know why the comment "geriatric" is at all relevant, presumably just a disparaging remark in place of any actual knowledge copied from some rabid internet group.
But since in your own words the Judiciary and "most of the 600" MPs do not agree with Boris Johnson, then your love of democracy will carry you through.
Or do you think it should be run by one person doing what he wants? What happens when it is something you don't agree with?
>> Some MP's spouting that Boris acted illegally and mis-led the Queen, how?
Really? You don't know how? Read the link Bromp posted. It's got big words and no sound-bites suitable for certain audiences, but it will tell you exactly how.
>>when B declared it (prorogation) there was no law about it ,or that it wan't legal,
There was a law about it. There was some disagreement between Johnson and others about whether or not his move had been legal. As is the law of our country it went to the courts for them to decide according to the existing law.
>> until the "geriatrics" decided it was and ruled that way!
Again, why the use of "geriatrics"? It just makes this sound like some rabid rant rather than a collection of coherent points.
There's probably a reason for that, I guess.
>>- at least it ""looks" like Boris is actually trying to deliver on the referendum,
Does it? Really? How is he doing that?
>> which is what 17.5 mill folk voted for,
And therefore 45.0 mill folk [sic] did not.
>> most of the 600 odd + MP's are more bothered about their own backsides
Probably true. But you do understand that "most" is a democratic majority, right?
>>and are rubbing most of the Countries noses in them!
Oh, yet more emotive, uneducated rabid ranting.
>> Utter disgraces - all of them, none should see inside Parliament again after an election!
Here's the thing; They were each voted for. And each of them achieved the appropriate majority from their electorate. Surely most of your rant concerns the "will of the people" in which case according to your own standards you should shut up and accept these MPs, whatever you think of them, and however times have changed, however much things not are not as they appeared then, because that's the democracy you bang on and on about.
Or do you just mean democracy should be supported when it does what you want?
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 14 Oct 19 at 10:32
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I'm watching Geoffrey Cox, Attorney General, answering questions in Parliament, live. I'd not heard him say much before but my first impression is that he is somewhat arrogant and patronising, and I've not warmed to him.
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....Geoffrey Cox has always fancied himself as an actor on a big stage....
....paying to the gallery..... (or in this case, possibly the orchestra stalls).
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>> I'm watching Geoffrey Cox, Attorney General, answering questions in Parliament, live. I'd not heard him
>> say much before but my first impression is that he is somewhat arrogant and patronising,
>> and I've not warmed to him.
He's had a strip torn off him by Barry Sheerman, the veteran Labour MP for Huddersfield, over his having the barefaced cheek to talk of morals and morality.
Cox replied in full on patronise mode.
What a chump.
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>> Cox replied in full on patronise mode.
>>
>> What a chump.
>>
Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Labour Party?
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 26 Sep 19 at 01:50
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>> Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Labour Party?
Not now and haven't been since I left over rightward drift under Blair. Issue was broken promise over selective schools and privatisation of Air Traffic Control amongst other things.
Cannot remember exactly when but before Iraq.
It will surely not surprise anyone here to learn that I remain sympathetic to its aims.
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>> It will surely not surprise anyone here to learn that I remain sympathetic to its
>> aims.
>>
Well, I didn't fall off my chair.
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>>
>> Really? You don't know how? Read the link Bromp posted. It's got big words and
>> no sound-bites suitable for certain audiences, but it will tell you exactly how.
>>
...actually, I watched the verdict live.
I was extremely impressed with the way Lady Hale set out the postion. Clearly and relatively concisely laid out, in order of the items at debate, and really not at all difficult for *anyone* to understand, if they were of a mind to give it consideration.
I do hope I have the same clarity of mind when I reach her age (not so long now ;-) )
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>>
>> Really? You don't know how? Read the link Bromp posted. It's got big words and
>> no sound-bites suitable for certain audiences, but it will tell you exactly how.
>>
>...actually, I watched the verdict live.
Actually, I was not replying to you.
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...actually, I know.
I was simply contributing to the debate.
(It is still allowed, isn't it?)
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Actually I was confused as to actually what you actually were replying to and what your actual point was.
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Me? increasingly so. Sadly. These days I can't even work the Climate Control on my car.
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>> like Boris is actually trying to deliver on the referendum, which is what 17.5 mill
>> folk voted for,
But Boris said he wasn't proroguing parliament because of Brexit. Are you suggesting he lied?
To the Queen as well as parliament and the electorate?
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I meant to add, Had he said "Shut up you lot, I am trying to deliver Brexit and you lot are screwing it up, so I am shutting you out of the loop" he may have got a bit of respect, for his forthright determination.
But he barefaced lied. Parliament knew he was lying, his own party knew he was lying, the country knew he was lying, and the Highest court in the land branded him a liar. He has even admitted he was.
Not only is he a proven liar, he is a bad liar, and worse, he got caught.
Now that he is found out, how do you think the EU thinks about his no deal threat?
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 25 Sep 19 at 16:42
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>>Parliament knew he was lying, his own party knew he was lying, the country knew he was lying
And he knew that they all knew, and they knew he knew they knew. Proper disrespect that is.
And, I believe, one of Trump's defining behaviours.
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Doing the rounds on the internet at the mo...
Farage asks for a pint.
The barman draws it & throws it into his face.
Farage: 'Why did you do that?'
Barman: 'You asked for a pint, but you didn't say how you wanted it delivered.'
Farage: ‘I'll have a pint in a pint glass.'
Barman: 'No. You can't ask again.'
Farage: 'Why not?'
Barman: 'Democracy.'"
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So *FINALLY* they begin to admit and face what anybody with half a brain knew was the alternative to TM's approach;
"Boris Johnson says the "reality" of Brexit is there will need to be customs checks on the island of Ireland after the UK leaves the EU. "
www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49890199
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 1 Oct 19 at 10:49
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This can only be a good thing, but I wonder how many see the significance (across all industries) of this throw-away phrase about half way down....
"If British firms want to sell into Europe after Brexit they will have to follow the new rules, which apply from April 2021"
www.bbc.com/news/business-49884827
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>> "If British firms want to sell into Europe after Brexit they will have to follow
>> the new rules, which apply from April 2021"
>>
>> www.bbc.com/news/business-49884827
And that is what "taking back control" is all about.
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We're still flying towards the cliff with an incompetent person at No10.
And still they cannot manage a rational approach to the route via Vote of No Confience to Interim PM to Election.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/30/opposition-parties-to-start-planning-for-national-unity-government
I'm beginning to despair and think the 'they're all self interested twonks' line is right.
Corbyn can have a go if he thinks he's hard enough but realistically he's not got the numbers.
Clarke, Grieve and possibly Gauke are all without further ambition/prospect and have the gravitas for the job.
Just get on with it.
Suggestion over weekend that John Bercow could fit the bill. I think that's probably one of those suggestions that's an ironic joke but JUST close enough to possible for it to run.
It would be bloomin funny though to see the apoplexy on the Tory benches were he appointed.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 14 Oct 19 at 10:34
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>> Suggestion over weekend that John Bercow could fit the bill.
>>
Now there's someone with even less credibility and even more undeserved arrogance than BoJo
As I have been saying for months they know what they don't want bot there is nothing close to any agreement on what they do want
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Just how easy is it to change pictures these days?
Version of Z's link on Facebook has the cup changed for a balloon fashioned into a cock and balls.
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Is this a 'green' issue or is it a security issue around the source of the coffee and someone trying to poison him?
Is she an Aide or Protection?
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Pretty sure it's an aide with view to adverse publicity.
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It occurs to me that the law insists that a delay is requested, not that one is obtained.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 4 Oct 19 at 16:03
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>> It occurs to me that the law insists that a delay is requested, not that
>> one is obtained.
Yes that crossed my mind. But I believe that the Act includes the text of the letter that the PM must send, so he presumably can't comply by putting unacceptable conditions on it, or asking for a 24 hour extension.
Perhaps he could comply by issuing the specified letter, and then writing another one to cancel/vary it.
They're certainly trying to give the impression that they have a cunning plan to leave on 31 October. But they would do that if they were trying to maintain the supposed threat of a no deal Brexit to act as a lever on the EU, and perhaps on parliament to vote for a deal.
I haven't watched any news today but none of Varadkar, Barnier, Verhostadt were making warm noises yesterday. But they wouldn't, would they...
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The Irish PM on BBC has said that opinion polls suggest that there is now a majority in Northern Ireland in favour of union with the Republic.
Why don't they hold a referendum?
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>> The Irish PM on BBC has said that opinion polls suggest that there is now
>> a majority in Northern Ireland in favour of union with the Republic.
>>
>> Why don't they hold a referendum?
>>
Don't be too certain that the Irish Republic would be keen on a united Ireland. It certainly wouldn't be a peaceful one, with the protestant paramilitaries more than willing to take up arms in protest.
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>> Don't be too certain that the Irish Republic would be keen on a united Ireland.
>> It certainly wouldn't be a peaceful one, with the protestant paramilitaries more than willing to
>> take up arms in protest.
So the Republican paramilitaries won't lay down their arms until there is a united Ireland.
The Unionist paramilitaries won't lay down their arms if there is a united Ireland.
Hmmm. What are we going to do?
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>>
>> Hmmm. What are we going to do?
>>
....there's only one way to find out........Fight!.......
(or alternatively, revoke article 50)
;-)
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>> The Irish PM on BBC has said that opinion polls suggest that there is now
>> a majority in Northern Ireland in favour of union with the Republic.
YEEEEESSSSS GET RID OF THE RUGGERS
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>> >> It occurs to me that the law insists that a delay is requested, not
>> >> that one is obtained.
>>
>> Yes that crossed my mind. But I believe that the Act includes the text of
>> the letter that the PM must send, so he presumably can't comply by putting unacceptable
>> conditions on it, or asking for a 24 hour extension.
And Jean-Claude Juncker has just stated in public that they will not accept or offer a further delay/extension.
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>> And Jean-Claude Juncker has just stated in public that they will not accept or offer
>> a further delay/extension.
Others are pointing out that extension is not in gift of Commissioner Junker or any of current or outgoing commissioners but for the Council of Ministers.
Would they decline an extension and force a crash out if Commons rejects deal and PM sends a 'Benn letter'?
Observers think not.
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>>Would they decline an extension and force a crash out if Commons rejects deal and PM sends a 'Benn letter'?
Yes, I think they might.
They most certainly will not give it for free. They would want some kind of commitment that would make a difference. Perhaps something like "commit that you will come up with a better deal in 3 months or you will take this one by default".
But on balance I think they'd just say no.
p.s. can you get into the habit of using "the"? Not particularly this time, but often it makes your notes difficult to grasp. Surely not typing those three letters doesn't particularly save you any real time?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 17 Oct 19 at 15:07
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And Jean-Claude Juncker has just stated in public that they will not accept or offer
>> a further delay/extension.
>>
I think he said the WA couldn't be revisited as well. Different circumstances I suppose, however I guess we'll find out soon enough as the PM hasn't the numbers to get this through HoC.
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>>
>>
>> I think he said the WA couldn't be revisited as well. Different circumstances I suppose,
>> however I guess we'll find out soon enough as the PM hasn't the numbers to
>> get this through HoC.
>>
He may get the numbers if this really is the final offer and it's this or no deal. Corbyn is looking more and more like a clueless prat, a recent poll suggests that Boris now has a higher rating among the 18-25 year olds.
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Johnson, as much as he is a loathsome dissembling toad, has played a poor hand brilliantly since his defeat on prorogation and apparently having had his hands tied by the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act.
He has continued to use 'no-deal' as a threat both to the EU and parliament despite neither of those bodies knowing how or whether he could possibly both abide by the law and take the UK out of the EU on 31 October. He has discontinued his sarcastic clown persona and replaced it with that of an urbane statesman although he does look as if he should be stroking a white cat at times.
Meanwhile the wretched-looking Corbyn is obliged to bluster back at Johnson across the despatch boxes with essentially nothing to say and scarcely lays a glove on him every time confirming his absolute impotence.
The Labour Party is an utter shambles. The Conservatives should wipe the floor with it in a General Election. I am fearful that if Johnson survives to fight and win the election he will go back into demagogue mode and then we might suffer an indefinite period of populism. I wish I was young enough and had somewhere to emigrate to.
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While I tend to agree, your post sums up what I felt would happen - Johnson would come out of it as the darling of the Leave voters, and as the person who managed to achieve what TM didn't.
It's already been called out as sexist (Amber Rudd?) in that the proposal in many respects isn't vastly different from TMs and yet seems to have garnered more support.
I'm not saying that TM had my full support but I think he is benefitting from her rough ride (which I suppose was inevitable).
However I'm genuinely glad it seems to be moving towards completion. I arrive back from Portugal on Friday night and I hope that I can watch Parliament sitting and approving the proposal on Saturday
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 17 Oct 19 at 19:22
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You'd have thought MPs would have had more important things to worry about!
uk.news.yahoo.com/no-deal-brexit-dogging-rise-minister-085810758.html
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....they appear to be expecting British dogging, though.......
.....which should keep the Brexiteers happy.
;-)
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".....which should keep the Brexiteers happy."
....... and the Bremainiacs will have been proved correct if the country goes to the dogs.
My only worry is a possible delay on my 4 cases of wine on their way from Portugal. I do hope they arrive before the sky falls in.
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>> My only worry is a possible delay on my 4 cases of wine on their
>> way from Portugal. I do hope they arrive before the sky falls in.
I always knew you were classy Mateus Rose kind of guy.
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Whereas you prefer Monica Rose ?
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>> Whereas you prefer Monica Rose ?
>>
East ender, ain't he? Gotta be Blue Nun.
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Luv that antifreeze after taste on the back of the tongue, tho being from the posh part of the east end it would be Black Tower.
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>> Whereas you prefer Monica Rose ?
Is she a regular dogger then?
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"I always knew you were classy Mateus Rose kind of guy."
I just checked on my supplier's website, and Mateus Rosé is, indeed, still available.......
www.portugalvineyards.com/en/wines/1278-mateus-rose-original-5601012011500.html
It is described as 'very appealing and bright', and 'fresh and seductive' - perfectly matching Zeddo's porn-star qualifications (see other thread).
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Must have been one of the oddest cabinet meetings ever.
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I thought that leaving the EU was the beginning of the UK's return to greatness?
www.bbc.com/news/business-49961301
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"Project fear innit :-)"
Indeed it is - though, like crocodile eggs, one of these predictions is almost bound to hatch.
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Well, those who still choose to believe that Brexit is a good thing, are indeed like crocodiles. As in there are great numbers of them to be found in de Nile...
;-)
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My sister has lived in Spain for about 15 years.
She received a weasel word letter yesterday from NHS Business Services Authority basically telling her that her 'S1' reciprocal healthcare coverage will continue until 31st October 2020 but there are no guarantees after that.
Also that increases to her State Pension will continue as normal until 2023 but the UK " plans to negotiate an agreement with the EU to ensure that updates to your State Pension will carry on being uprated in the longer term."
No guarantees there then either.
I can smell a slump in property prices on the Costas.
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>>I can smell a slump in property prices on the Costas.
Actually probably not. The Spanish Gringo real estate market took such a hammering in the 90s and 00s that there isn't a lot of fat left in it.
Or at least there wasn't. Fair to say that I haven't paid attention since about 2009, so if it has inflated since that time then perhaps it has some to lose, but not a huge amount I don't think.
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Local Spanish paper makes mention of July 2019 property sales slump in ‘foreigners favourites’ the Balearics, with sales down 22% over the previous July. This follows the introduction of strict new rental laws for owners to rent to tourists.
Year on year property sales deeds registered by foreign buyers are currently down 7%. That figure is for all non Spanish buyers.... I think that purchases by British buyers will be down by far more than 7%.
I’m friendly with a few sales agents on the Costa Blanca, and prices are definitely softening. A lot of elderly Brits are concerned about reciprocal health care no longer being available in the mid term and are trying to sell their property, move into long term rental and see what transpires.
Ive no intention of buying myself...far cheaper to get a long term (10 weeks in my case) winter rental and divi up costs with friends. The place where I am now, and returning again in November for 16 days, is a €450k property inc sales tax. In winter it costs us €370 a week gross, inc gas, electric, WiFi, laundry etc etc. Why on earth buy, even if you had the funds to do so ?
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>> Local Spanish paper makes mention of July 2019 property sales slump in ‘foreigners favourites’ the
>> Balearics, with sales down 22% over the previous July. This follows the introduction of strict
>> new rental laws for owners to rent to tourists.
Friends have been going every summer to Menorca for years, last two years they have been unable to book their usual place. There's been some sort of tax crackdown going on - too many businesses have gone off grid, let via airbnb and not declared the income. I don't know the detail of it but it's a massive effect apparently and has quite possibly affected property values.
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Various tourist areas around the world are going after AirBnB. Effectively they don't like the impact on the buildings where they are located, the local area, the tax situation and the regulation [lack of].
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Isn't it similar to resistance from the old guard to Uber? Not wanting competition.
I've used AirBnb a few times and it's been very good, but I wouldn't use it exclusively.
I'm in Portugal right now, and I've recently developed some kind of affinity to Portugal out of season. Property seems a reasonable price round here but I can't make the maths work for ny age (63) - same as LL says about Spain, there are cheap out of season rentals which fit the bill withotu the commitment.
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>> Isn't it similar to resistance from the old guard to Uber? Not wanting competition.
No, its ripping the community out of cities, and that means all the regulation and taxation you can apply to a stable known population.
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>I don't know the detail of it but it's a massive effect apparently..
It's not just the new rental regulations that are causing a problem.
My sister reports that an opinion piece in a Spanish language newspaper over the weekend quoted an official from the Spanish tourist board as saying:
"..the collapse of Thomas Cook could result in up to 500 hotels across southern Spain and the Balearics closing with the loss of thousands of jobs. Restaurants will also close. With the additional uncertainty that Brexit will have on property sales and rentals the cost to the Spanish economy could run into €Billions."
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What a lovely man.....
www.bbc.com/news/business-50004184
Those who hung on his every word over Brexit may like to take particular note of this...
"But in an email on Thursday, Sir James revealed that Dyson was closing electric car facilities both in the UK and Singapore.
The project employed 523 people, 500 of whom were in UK, and Sir James praised their "immense" achievements."
Fairly keen on reducing any involvement he has in the UK, it would appear.
In January 2019..
www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46976371
"insists no UK jobs will be lost and that work at its Wiltshire sites will be unaffected."
No wonder he is a vocal advocate of leave with no deal, it won't affect him in any way.
According to the FT, Dyson received £2.8m in funding for his research in 2017 FROM THE EU. He received £16m from the UK Government for his work on Electric cars.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dyson-will-head-for-singapore-to-build-electric-car-factory-7rlhdbwfl
Before Brexit became his 'thing' he used to complain about how difficult it was to bring immigrants from outside the EU into his company and that immigration controls should be relaxed.
And yet the remain side STILL holds him up as an example of the quality of businessman that supports Brexit.
Dyson is, and always has been since long before his vacuum cleaner was successful, a self-serving dick with no feelings of loyalty to anybody.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 10 Oct 19 at 17:24
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He also threatened to shift manufacturing from the UK in 2000 if we didn't adopt the Euro.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1008512.stm
Lovely chap!
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Does a last minute deal loom?
BBC News - Brexit secretary returns to Brussels after 'promising' UK-Ireland talks
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50007206
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 11 Oct 19 at 19:37
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One of Two things will happen
1/ the current deal with new words will be accepted.
2/ There will be no deal.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 11 Oct 19 at 19:37
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I think 1 is quite likely but would it get through Parliament?
Groundhog Day and deja vu all over again.
Sitting by the pool in a beautiful garden in Dalyan Turkey with an ice cold beer. Is it worth coming back?
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 11 Oct 19 at 19:38
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>> I think 1 is quite likely but would it get through Parliament?
>>
>> Groundhog Day and deja vu all over again.
>>
>> Sitting by the pool in a beautiful garden in Dalyan Turkey with an ice cold
>> beer. Is it worth coming back?
>>
depends how far away from the fighting you are.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 11 Oct 19 at 19:38
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About 500 miles. Time for a raki
.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 11 Oct 19 at 19:38
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>> About 500 miles. Time for a raki
>> .
Lets see
Well within missile range
Shahab-3
800 miles,
Ghadr
1210 miles,
Emad
1,050 miles,
All Iranian missiles known to be in the Syrian armoury
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 11 Oct 19 at 19:38
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None so deadly as three large rakis.
This really is a most beautiful place though. Thoroughly recommend it especially this time of year now it has cooled down a bit..
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 11 Oct 19 at 19:38
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Brexit Discussion - Volume 85 - No FM2R
