***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 61 *****
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IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ
Before discussions start in this thread, I would like to point out that any petty arguments, personal attacks, or any other infringement of house rules, etc. will be deleted where we feel fit from now on. It seems that discussion about Brexit brings out the worst in some people.
We will not give notice that we have deleted anything. Nor will we enter into discussion why something was deleted. That will also be deleted. The select few who are unable to have a reasonable discussion, cannot contain their anger, be keyboard warriors, trolls, etc. should not be allowed to spoil the enjoyment for others.
Also bear in mind that genuine posts 'may' well end up also getting deleted. I apologise in advance for this, but we simply do not have the time to pick through and be selective with anything we delete. If your reply is tagged onto an argument, etc. then due to the nature of the forum software, chances are it will also vanish.
Finally, if it becomes too time consuming to moderate these threads, then we might ask that Brexit discussion stop altogether.
Be nice, Play nice, and control your temper.
Your co-operation would be appreciated.
Dave.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 21 Oct 18 at 19:21
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This looks like positive news.
order-order.com/2018/10/17/us-puts-uk-trade-deal-front-queue/
The groundwork is being done on a trade deal with the US.
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>>we might ask that Brexit discussion stop altogether.
Tease.
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>> we might ask
>> that Brexit discussion stop altogether.
>>
That's a good idea - you mean we just walk out without a deal?
:) :) :)
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Ref: The Irish Border
The following is not perfect, but not bad and quite informative. I think it is not a recent article, though it has been updated.
www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-44615404
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 17 Oct 18 at 12:42
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I’m still keen on buying a place on the Costa Blanca....more pertinently the place a few of us rented for 6 weeks earlier this year to escape the worst of winter, and more recently last week. It isn’t on the open market, but the rental agent, a very professional family firm with whom I’ve had dealings these past few years, inform me that the overseas owner ( a company apparently) would be amenable to a sensible offer.
I’ve been given an approximate sale price, done due diligence with a view to the cost of improvements, and have established Notary, Registry, Rates and other annual fees. I’d need to downsize next Spring in order to release capital to fund the necessary improvements, and it’s already rented out all winter and a further 14 weeks until early summer 2019, which isn’t a problem for me.
The imponderables are future tax implications for a soon to be non EU owner. I’m single, wish to keep a smaller property in t’Dales where I shall live for at least half the year, and happy to pay tax on rental income to HMRC. Quite the quandary at the moment.
Especially as the approximate price is circa€40k less than I was told several months ago...the housing market has slowed down a lot in the past 6 months so I’ve been informed.
Anything here own an overseas EU property?
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LL,
You need a proper grown up advisor. You will be subject to Spanish Property Tax, Spanish Income tax on rentals and eventually Spanish Inheritance Tax. This is not something for casual advice in my opinion.
There are agreements in place between the UK & Spain (not impacted by the EU) which are there to avoid double taxation, but they are not always straightforward. You need a proper expert.
As an aside, I'd want to know why the company who owns it is happy to sell it. There can be good and bad reasons.
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I am now.
Thanks for the advice No FM2R....I have friends who recently bought in the area who are very astute so I’ll chat with them, and probably make a return trip for a week to get professional advice on the ground before submitting any offer.
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>>to get professional advice on the ground
Do that, but bear this in mind.
How would you choose a lawyer in the UK if you were buying a house? Would you take recommendations from the Vendor, or the Vendor's agent, or anybody else who had a vested interest in it's sale?
Would you choose them because they were the easy option?
I suspect you would actually be very careful in your choice of lawyer / advisor / whatever. Do not be any less vigilant or picky abroad.
Seek references. Seek proof of previous experience. Seek personal recommendations. Trust nobody.
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>>And remember, IHT is a whole 'nother ball game.
BUT, remember that IHT is a tax on your heirs, and if your heirs aren't your children you might consider that obtaining advice in advance of your death was a waste of cash that you could spend on yourself...
More generally, quite honestly, you don't need to read the double tax treaty. That in fact, far from being a tax-relieving treaty, is a taxing treaty as it allows the Spanish to tax income on Spanish-situate property owned by a non-Spanish resident.
Avoiding double taxation is an inherent feature of the UK tax code - if you have 100 of income that would give rise to 40 of UK tax and you have paid 30 of foreign tax on it, then you need only pay 10 more tax to HMRC.
But you do need to get some trustworthy Spanish advice, on that I do absolutely agree.
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I am no tax expert so I take advice.
In my experience that advice, both British and various Foreign, is pretty much always worth the money.
However, each to their own.
As for IHT, if you find the cost of the advice either prohibitive or worrying then I am surprised. Initial advice is so cheap. Though it's always worth bearing in mind what you have to lose or gain.
The double taxation approach isn't quite so easy with IHT. Not even close.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 17 Oct 18 at 17:53
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>>As for IHT, if you find the cost of the advice either prohibitive or worrying then I am surprised.
This is not about my circumstances, or about yours. So far as I can tell, Legacylad lives for himself, not for the children he does not have. And I don't think he's that flush with cash. Every penny he spends on IHT advice is a penny he cannot spend on himself - and likewise if maintaining a complicated structure. Personally, were I him, I wouldn't bother with it and let my heirs sort it out. Also don't lose sight of the fact that a good chunk of people sell their Spanish properties before they die as they return to the UK. At that point IHT advice has become irrelevant!
Knowledge of the IHT position should not impact his decision whether or not to get himself a fun pad in the sun. If the analysis were that he (or rather, his heirs) would suffer 110% IHT then I'm sure he'd still go ahead and buy it. Therefore, why worry about it?
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Fri 19 Oct 18 at 15:32
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Well, I can't say I'm that fussed one way or the other, really. LL asked for thoughts and I gave mine. Personally I've always found knowledge useful, even if one sometimes has to pay a little for it.
People choose different routes and approaches. It's not really something to argue about.
As for LL's personal financial position, I know nothing about it nor do I think it is something that is an appropriate matter for speculation or discussion unless he starts it.
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In previous volume, speaking of India and Pakistan Movilogo wrote:
It is not really comparable with Ireland
The situation with borders may now be different but the common link is partition based on nationality or clan, religion etc.
One might hope that in time India and Pakistan could come to an accommodation with free movement but I suspect it is a long way away.
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Legacylad, that was exactly where I was going with the comparison. Border or no border, religion is a big part of the problem on the island of Ireland. At the moment the peace agreement is sort of a fudge - not a united Ireland but not so divided. Devils in the details and both sides seem to have got what they wanted.
Put up a border.... and if there isn't a return to some violence I will be surprised.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 17 Oct 18 at 14:24
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>> Legacylad, that was exactly where I was going with the comparison.
Did you mean Bromptonaut?
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Yes I did but was thinking about the issue of buying property too when I replied. I also hope to buy a foreign property at some point.... Just on hold for now.
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So they might extend the 21 month transition period to sort out a deal for the island of Ireland. Well if we've not come up with an acceptable solution apart from effectively being in the single market and accept freedoms of movement and ECJ then what's the point.
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That makes no sense. There's a solution or there's not, no point kicking the bucket down the corridor.
Unless, of course, they're trying to dump it on the next Government. I wonder if that's they're thinking. mmmm
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 18 Oct 18 at 01:39
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Brexit delayed = Brexit denied
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Couldn't even trust the 'Great British Public' to choose the name of a new research ship.
Brexit?
Ha ha.
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>> Brexit delayed = Brexit denied
>>
>>
Get a grip man, its delayed, not called off and only proposal anyway. And its just to make sure everything will be "in order" as much as possible.
You seem to like to snipe at everything.
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>> That makes no sense. There's a solution or there's not, no point kicking the bucket
>> down the corridor.
>>
...Brextra time It'll go to penalties next..... .
;-)
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I think it makes sense and is most likely is inevitable. Sorting out. The detail offuture trading relations with the EU will certainly be a matter of years not months. Terms will have to be agreed with every individual country. I don't think people understand how long trade agreements take to finalise.
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"I don't think people understand how long trade agreements take to finalise."
.... and it's going to take even longer when the old Eurocrats are too knackered .....
www.theguardian.com/world/2002/aug/09/eu.politics
Presumably, the tablets will be will just be added to the trough. As it's in the Grauniad, it must be true?
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That depends. If it is a longer transition period for them to finalise the principle they have agreed for the Irish Border, then ok. If it is longer to even come up with a solution, then it's just kicking the bucket further down the hallway.
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When the politicans say extending transition, they actually mean extending status quo i.e. just deffering the decision (or kicking the bucket further down the line - as someone mentioned before).
In a true transition, things should change over time in a linear fashion. Like we lose one freedom every 6 months thus lose all 4 freedoms in 2 years time. That is true transition.
In reality, nothing will change in entire transition period (as it seems). So, after end of transition period they would ask for further extension. They are hoping if they can delay it long enough the issue will magically disappear from people's mind and UK would effectively remain in EU forever.
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>>In a true transition, things should change over time in a linear fashion.Like we lose one freedom every 6 months thus lose all 4 freedoms in 2 years time. That is true transition.
Why?
>>nothing will change in entire transition period...………
This is so nonsensical that I assume it is more of your trolling and so should be ignored.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 18 Oct 18 at 10:43
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I have only given an example of how transition could look like. So far I have not read anything where it suggests things will be different from current state during transition. If you know anything please let us know.
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>>I have only given an example of how transition could look like.
No, you have stated that is how "true transition" is.
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>> In a true transition, things should change over time in a linear fashion. Like we
>> lose one freedom every 6 months thus lose all 4 freedoms in 2 years time.
>> That is true transition.
No its not. Thats your version, every transition is rarely, if ever linear.
I think I know where you work now, based on your idea of change. You work in the TSB IT transition team.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 18 Oct 18 at 11:20
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That'd explain his level of business knowledge as well.
Actually my guess would be a programmer in a tech consultancy. Atos, for example.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 18 Oct 18 at 11:39
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Can we stop with any further speculation of who movilogo works for, or what his job might entail please.
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>>
>> No its not. Thats your version, every transition is rarely, if ever linear.
>>
Linear or not, the very concept of "transition" surely suggests some kind of intermediate stage, and also some idea of the direction the transition is intended to take?
It usually implies more than simply "switch" or "confusion".
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More comment about extending the transition period.
www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45897253
Also interesting are the comments at the bottom. Endless vitriol from people accusing each other of being leavers or remainers and how everything is their fault, and who they're awful people etc. etc.
Sigh, it's really really way past time that people got over the referendum and focussed on the future.
I wonder why it's so bad. Is it as simple as the key issues are complex and generally not well understood so the idea of black and white, good and bad, leave and remain is easier to cope with?
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>>sigh, it's really really way past time that people got over the referendum and focussed on the future.<<
No, that isn't for 'the people' to do.
It's way past time that TM stopped shuffling her feet and carried out simply what she promised us, instead of prevaricating in the hope it will go away.
The 'people' elected politicians to carry out their manifesto's and the subsequent promises, now we need to see them do their bit.
We did ours when we were asked to vote in a referendum.
Pat
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Pat,
In simple terms you and many others were miss-sold a product called 'Brexit'. Just like dodgy investments or Personal Pensions it promised to be all things for all people.
Just like dodgy investments or Personal Pensions the promised benefits are undeliverable.
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No Bromp, in your opinion we were mis-sold, but that is what it is, just remainers opinions.
Since you are not prepared to give it a try or even see it through, we will never know if it was miss-sold or not.
Your claims are just as groundless as those you claim we were sold but you can't seem to see it.
You have no proof because there is no way of having any proof until it actually happens and we see the results, so your argument is completely without substance.
In fact, it is no more credible than your argument that we were miss-sold something!
Pat
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>>In fact, it is no more credible than your argument that we were miss-sold something!
So you believe the NHS will get £350m per week as Boris Johnson said, do you?
Or what about Farage when he said "I never said it would be a beneficial thing for us to leave"?
And there were just as many lies on the Remain side, albeit slightly less outrageous.
In any case, it doesn't matter. We've got what we've got, we need it to work. Not just absolve all responsibility by saying "I voted in the referendum and now it's someone else's problem". That is a shameful attitude.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 18 Oct 18 at 18:22
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We need brexit next march, it needs to be a hard no deal brexit with a border in NI
Nothing less will satisfy the brexiteers.
Of course if it all goes tits up in the UK it will be the fault of the remoaners for not making it work.
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Pat,
What do you think:
(a) are the benefits of Brexit and:
(b) how they can be delivered?
TM cannot do much by administrative fiat; we know that from Supreme Court decision on Article 50 so she needs to get stuff through Parliament. Given the factions in her own party and even with the apparent incompetence of Labour how will she get stuff past The House of Commons?
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 18 Oct 18 at 22:03
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>>the promised benefits are undeliverable.
And that is most certainly a concern for the future. In even a perfect world this transaction cannot deliver some of the things that were promised.
And for some I guess that will always be because in their mind it wasn't done properly. I can see no way of avoiding it, though I suspect most of it will go away with time. But it'll be disruptive until it does.
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>>No, that isn't for 'the people' to do.
Well who is it for then? Because the politicians won't if the electorate don't.
>>The 'people' elected politicians to carry out their manifesto's and the subsequent promises, now we need to see them do their bit.
That is correct. And the people need to stop going on and on and on ad nauseum about who voted leave or remain, the whining Remoaners, or the ignorant Brexiteers. That argument is done.
The discussion now is HOW we leave. You really need to try to absorb that. both sides need to stop crying, stop whining and whinging, stop pointing fingers and blaming it all on the other side and focus on *HOW* we are going to leave.
Set an example, see if you can add any suggestion or thought on how these situations could be resolved, rather than just sticking your head in the sand and saying "We did ours when we were asked to vote in a referendum."
That wasn't the end of it, or at least it shouldn't be.
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It was the end of it.
Nothing you do, or anyone else does since the referendum as a person will make any difference whatsoever.
No-one listens to what you or anyone else thinks or takes any notice if they hear you.
Big business yes, may well have some influence but a single person has no influence whatsoever so how about keeping quiet and letting them get on with the job they are tasked to do?
Tell me what difference you think you can make, who will listen and what effect it will have?
Pat
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So you absolve yourself of all involvement and responsibility in the process going forward?
You feel that you have no need to take any part because what can one person do, so nothing is your fault?
Aside from that being a pitiful and shameful attitude, then I am therefore at a loss why you bother to post on the subject, unless it is just a continuation of your stated goal to annoy me.
What does it matter what anybody says? You believe that no one can make a difference.
What a very limited view of life, and a limited understanding of how politics works.
So, you be quiet because you think it is pointless and nobody can do anything, I will continue to talk about it because It think our involvement and commitment to the solution matters.
Go back to ignoring me, that should achieve both of those goals. Add ignoring everybody else who disagrees with you and you'll be just fine and dandy.
Cue: "nobody can tell me what do to.... blah blah blah."
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 18 Oct 18 at 18:33
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I posted on this thread because I believed that after VX'x notice at the top of the thread there may be some chance of some meaningful discussion but straight away you have to resort to personal attacks.
I see nothing has changed and nothing ever will with the woeful moderation on here.
I note also you failed to answer my question as to what you think you can actually do!
I tried, but it's a complete waste of time.
Pat
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>>I note also you failed to answer my question as to what you think you can actually do!
Recently? I had lunch about two/three weeks ago with one of the politicians leading the Brexit negotiation with the EU and told him what I thought, and listened to what he thought.
Since we're auditing answers, perhaps you would respond to mine when I asked you about you erroneous statements on the situation facing airlines and air travel and my following detailed response and then asked you whether or not you now understood it better and could see where you were wrong?
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>> nothing has changed and nothing ever will with the woeful moderation on here.
I am not quite sure what you think a moderator should be doing?
No one is being rude, no one is insulting anyone, everybody seems to be behaving in kind with each other.
Unless it is simple disagreement which troubles you?
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Pat, someone expressing an opposing view is not a personal attack. I've personally not seen a personal attack which I consider warrants moderation yet.
Except of course your comment about woeful moderation, but I'll let it stand.
Other moderators may see it differently.
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>>
>> Recently? I had lunch about two/three weeks ago with one of the politicians leading the
>> Brexit negotiation with the EU and told him what I thought, and listened to what
>> he thought.
>>
How very cosy - a nice gentlemanly way of sorting things out.
If he asked me to lunch I could tell him what I thought too.
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Thank you for saying so, I thought so too.
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>> I posted on this thread because I believed that after VX'x notice at the top
>> of the thread there may be some chance of some meaningful discussion but straight away
>> you have to resort to personal attacks.
Pat, I cannot see a personal attack against you. Granted the conversation is becoming heated again, but it takes two to tango. You are equally as argumentative as the next person.
>> I see nothing has changed and nothing ever will with the woeful moderation on here.
Now that I do consider a personal attack against the moderators. We cannot monitor the place 24/7. Just because something isn't going your way, you throw the toys out the pram time and time again.
We also expect a little bit of co-operation from members too. i.e. be adult and not bloody keep arguing and squabbling with each other all the damn time.
If people cannot have a rational discussion about Brexit without puffing out their chests, willy waving, call it what you like, every 5 mins, then I'll carry out my threat and ban discussion all together about it. Plenty of other forums disallow political discussion. I can see why now.
Now for the last and final time, play nice - ALL OF YOU.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 18 Oct 18 at 19:03
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How spooky is that, both posting at exactly the same time?
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How spooky you both posting at the same time.
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I just said the same thing. But then hid it.
Typical, just like a bus, nothing then we all turn up at once - lol.
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>>I just said the same thing. But then hid it.
I know. Hence my comment. Spooky, huh.
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>>Pat, I cannot see a personal attack against you. Granted the conversation is becoming heated again, but it takes two to tango. You are equally as argumentative as the next person.
<<
I applauded your decision to moderate this thread to allow discussion in a proper manner but left it a couple of days to make any comment to see what happened.
Movi made a comment and I noticed got the same response as usual. He openly admits to being pro-Brexit.
I decided to see if it would work now and make a couple of perfectly normal, non-confrontational remarks and here we are again with the remark above.
More specifically this one >>You are equally as argumentative as the next person<<
I deliberately chose something that wasn't presented in an argumentative way yet once again, it appears to be my fault.
The common denominator in this thread is that both myself and Movi are pro-Brexit and as soon as we post anything we get this type of reaction, but more importantly, we also get the blame.
I'm not prepared to be blamed for other people's threads being removed, being disruptive or argumentative, or even being the one who caused the discussion topic of Brexit to be banned, so I'll leave you all to it.
Before anyone decides it is because we don't want to/can't or are too ignorant to understand anything to discuss just take a look at both mine and Movi's posts and the replies, then make a decision as to who is the cause of the problem?
Pat
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>> so I'll leave you all to it.
Does that mean that you will not post on any future Brexit discussion thread?
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Why Duncan, does it bother you when I do?
Pat
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No. Simply curiosity on my part.
When I first saw your post at about 04.30 today, I wondered if it was a flounce, but you have since responded to other posts elsewhere.
What does the phrase mean?
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I think you have just proved both moderators point. thanks
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Fri 19 Oct 18 at 08:39
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Obviously, someone disagrees with you CG since I have a thumbs up:)
Duncan, I certainly don't flounce, I would have thought you would have realised that by now.
Pat
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Pat,
I refuse to get into an argument with you.
I've said what I've had to say, based upon my own opinion of what I've seen written here.
As soon as someone disagrees with your point of view, you get all huffy, make claims of personal attacks, have to bring someone else's name into it to try and defend your corner, etc, and say that the moderation of this forum sucks.
It's clear to me (and others) that you have a personality clash with certain individuals on here (one person especially). Therefore would it not seem logical to ignore that/those person(s) - like you keep saying you're going to do, rather than continue going round in circles?
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 19 Oct 18 at 10:35
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>>. Therefore would it not seem logical to ignore that/those person(s)
>> - like you keep saying you're going to do, rather than continue going round in
>> circles?
>>
Over the last year or so I think I can prove that have managed to do that.
However my post in the Motoring Forum, Seat Belt thread on Tue 2 Oct 18 03:49 proves that it had been successful but under extreme provocation, as shown by my research.
Yet you still want me to ignore Mark, while he is allowed to stalk, and troll every post I write on any subject?
You condone that I take it, yet not when I do it?
Sorry but I'm not following your reasoning on that one VX.
Care to explain?
Pat
Last edited by: Pat on Fri 19 Oct 18 at 11:08
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The Seat Belt thread was one I was reading, as I do all threads, but not taking part in. Out of the blue you started to get annoyed with someone, CG I think, and brought my name into it obviously attracting my attention. Why mention me? Why bring me into the discussion?
Worse, why bring me in out of the blue and then accuse me of stalking you?
And then after that the thread got very silly. You might want to have a re-read, now you've mentioned it I am sure others will.
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>> Yet you still want me to ignore Mark, while he is allowed to stalk, and
>> troll every post I write on any subject?
Pat, will you stop with the personal attacks and accusations against people. He is entitled to reply to your post (or anyone else's come to that) if he wants to.
If you think he is goading you, or interpret that's what he is doing, then don't rise to the bait. it just makes matters worse. Sometimes you are your own worst enemy.
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>>He is entitled to reply to your post (or anyone else's come to that) if he wants to.<<
Yet you're telling me to ignore him and not to reply to him!
Even stranger, you're emailing me one thing and also posting another on here........why?
I emailed the mods in the early hours of this morning to explain how I felt and in an effort to keep it off the forum.
I received a long email back from Smokie, which I appreciate even though I didn't agree with all of it.
I had a reply from you VX, then when I looked on here you had replied on here (to keep it going?) and after another email exchange, it has just happened again?
Despite what you say in the emails you seem to be quite enjoying it otherwise why would you?
Surely it is far better to deal with something like this by email only?
Or am I wrong again for trying to do the right thing?
Pat
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I don't suppose anybody brought popcorn, did they?
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No I'm afraid not. I've got some M&Ms, will they do ?
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They certainly will. I don't suppose they're the nutty ones, are they? I really like those.
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Just normal sorry.
Do you think I've time to nip out and get a drink? I wouldn't want to miss anything.
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Mmm, not sure. Tell you what, you go get the first one and I'll get the next.
See if they've got any cheese and onion crisps while you're there. I'd kill for some.
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Oops, no time, it's just starting (again)
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No, last throes I reckon.
Anyway, I've played a cunning curve ball and posted something on topic, that'll cause confusion
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>> Yet you're telling me to ignore him and not to reply to him!
You're twisting what I said Pat. By your own admission you say time and time again that you will ignore Mark, but subsequently don't. It's clear what he says winds you up, yet you keep on digging and digging. If you ignore him then logically it won't get you so wound up. That's the point I am trying to get across.
>> I emailed the mods in the early hours of this morning to explain how I felt and in an effort to keep it off the forum.
But at the same time you posted here, keeping it in the forum.
Can't win with you Pat. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
To be honest, I just wish you'd put a sock in it. I've wasted enough time with this today already.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 19 Oct 18 at 13:45
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03.21 was the time of my post.
07.36 was the time I sent the email after a good 4 hours of giving it some thought about the best way of dealing with it.
Why I bothered I don't know.
>>To be honest, I just wish you'd put a sock in it. I've wasted enough time with this today already.<<
Stop emailing me and then posting a modified version in here then....simple!
Pat
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>> The common denominator in this thread is that both myself and Movi are pro-Brexit and
>> as soon as we post anything we get this type of reaction, but more importantly,
>> we also get the blame.
You both post stuff about Brexit which simply does not stand up to rational analysis. That's why you get a reaction.
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>>You both post stuff about Brexit which simply does not stand up to rational analysis. That's why you get a reaction.
There are some cages which are simply not worth rattling.
If someone says that they will "leave us to it" then let's respect that and not try to drag them back in again.
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>> There are some cages which are simply not worth rattling.
Couldn't miss an open goal.....
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Well, sorry for going off topic, but this was in the FT today..
www.ft.com/content/3918cfa2-d2fc-11e8-a9f2-7574db66bcd5
It is behind the paywall, so for those interested without access. (not quite as complete but mostly there)...
www.businessinsider.com/theresa-may-told-to-quit-conservative-mps-extend-brexit-transition-period-2018-10
Rees-Mogg is increasingly showing himself to be an unpleasant person in my opinion.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 5 Sep 19 at 10:14
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Same subject, from The Granuad. I should have given you this one first....
guardian.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx
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Rees-Mogg isn't mentioned in the 2nd link as far as I see...?
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" backbench MP Jacob Rees-Mogg was equally critical, saying the transition extension was “a rather poor attempt at kicking the can down the roadâ€. "
And a couple of days ago on John Major…
www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-36461357/eu-referendum-rees-mogg-on-sir-john-major-ramblings
and tweeted...
"Pity Sir John Major who was so heavily rejected by voters in 1997 and has never recovered"."
Increasingly hypocritical, mean-spirited and unpleasant man.
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Clearly immigration is an issue for many people in the UK and certainly a bone of contention.
It's always seemed that the dreaded "asylum seekers" were what upset the media most, and I've never really understood how anybody thinks leaving the EU will affect that in anyway.
In any case, we will be subject to international law which says that no asylum seeker who applies may be turned away until their claim has been investigated, and that no failed asylum seeker can be returned to their country of origin if it is not reasonably considered safe for them there.
Out of interest this is why Trump want's the current Caravan of Migrants stopped before they reach the US border. i.e. *before* they can make a claim for asylum.
Insofar as EU migration is concerned, I wondered if anybody has considered this;
Right now EU Migrants are a *massive* contribution to the UK's finances paying far more in tax and NI then they could possible claim or use n benefits. Also, of course, any EU citizen who comes here at the moment is legal, and therefore is allowed to work and gets to pay tax and NI.
In the future, let us say that any EU migrant who comes here will *not* be able to work legally without a visa, which is what I believe the newspapers want.
But some will still come, of course, on vacation or visiting or whatever. As happens everywhere. But overstaying is the biggest source of illegal immigration, not illegal entry. And then some will work to support themselves, but will have to do it illegally. Cash in hand. They will pay no tax, and consequently will pay no tax.
i.e. undercutting legal workers.
And they will be a net drain on the economy.
Has anybody thought that through?
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>>Has anybody thought that through?
Well, there are so many illegal immigrants here anyway I doubt it matters. 'All' cleaners in London are South American, they are 'all' here illegally and they all receive well under the minimum wage; doesn't stop the agencies charging more than the minimum wage for them.
>>"dreaded EU asylum seekers" [deliberate misquote]
You possibly don't spend enough time in London. The dreaded are the Romanian beggars with their accordions and fake mutilations and injuries who crowd the streets. The are the only reason we need a hard border in Ireland.
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>>>>"dreaded EU asylum seekers" [deliberate misquote]
Why put in quotation marks then? I didn't say it, I didn't mean it.
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>> You possibly don't spend enough time in London. The dreaded are the Romanian beggars with
>> their accordions and fake mutilations and injuries who crowd the streets.
Admittedly is all but five years since I was in the capital daily but on regular visits since I've never been aware of streets crowded with beggars of any nationality. Maybe 'Legal London' isn't generous enough.
Since I'm down there tomorrow for the People's Vote march I'll keep a count.
Romanian beggars are, if reports are to be believed, people of Roma ethnicity who happen to have Romanian nationality.
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>>
>> You possibly don't spend enough time in London. The dreaded are the Romanian beggars with
>> their accordions and fake mutilations and injuries who crowd the streets. The are the only
>> reason we need a hard border in Ireland.
You clearly haven't spent enough time in London to remember the subways around the south bank, full of drunks and violent beggars, Irish and jocks mostly, or the turkish three card trick merchants or the Maltese pimps. All long before your time and that of the EU
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>>The dreaded are the Romanian beggars with their accordions and fake mutilations and injuries who crowd the streets. The are the only reason we need a hard border in Ireland.
The Romanian beggars are the only reason we need a hard border with Ireland?
*We* don't need a hard border with Ireland at all. We probably won't even be compelled to have one. Whatever the eventuality, the Romanian beggars such as they are, are not even a reason, never mind "the" reason.
Liquid lunch, was it?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 19 Oct 18 at 19:54
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>>You possibly don't spend enough time in London.
>>The dreaded are the Romanian beggars with their accordions and fake mutilations
>>and injuries who crowd the streets. The are the only reason we need a hard border in Ireland.
Tripe!
I get more hassle from drunk businessmen on a late Thursday afternoon than I do from any beggars.
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>> Tripe!
With, or without onions?
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>> You possibly don't spend enough time in London. The dreaded are the Romanian beggars with
>> their accordions and fake mutilations and injuries who crowd the streets. The are the only
>> reason we need a hard border in Ireland.
I think 'nonsense' is a reasonable response to that.
I have been in London today for the afternoon and evening. Waterloo to Kingsway/Holborn area and back again. Got home about an hour ago. I did a fair bit of walking. I saw one beggar on the way out and one beggar on the way back.
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>> I saw one beggar on the way out and one beggar on the way
>> back.
Pass more than that going from my office to the outreach in the Council's Offices.....
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This is a very good explanation of the current situation....
Worth a read, I would say.
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45916642
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>> This is a very good explanation of the current situation....
>>
>> Worth a read, I would say.
>>
>> www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45916642
Key phrase:
Quite aside from the Irish border, a deep concern for EU leaders still hoping for a successful Brexit deal, are the shifting sands of UK politics.
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Not particularly stable in the rest of the EU, Germany, France, Italy, Austria etc etc. are they ?
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Quite the opposite. Undercurrents are rife.
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>> Not particularly stable in the rest of the EU, Germany, France, Italy, Austria etc etc.
>> are they ?
True, but non of those need to get a deal through their national parliament
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protecting the integrity of the single market - so, refusing to allow the UK membership of the single market for goods only (without signing up to the single market for people and services too)
The EU have done trade deals in the past, with goods, services but not people. It's not a historic red line, i wonder how much it will remain so in this case.
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US trade deal? - smokie