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As the title suggests, a place to discuss Formula One, and all other types of motorsport (excluding MotoGP, which has a section of its own).
PLEASE NOTE:-
To try and maintain some kind of logical order of discussion, if you start a new subject then reply to this post and remember to change the default subject header.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 30 Apr 18 at 01:42
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www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38723001
Bernie Ecclestone has been involved in the sport, in various roles, since the 1950s
He has been forced out of his position as Formula 1 chief executive, according to a German motor sport magazine.
The 86-year-old told Auto Motor und Sport he was asked to resign by new F1 chairman Chase Carey.
"I was dismissed today. This is official. I no longer run the company. My position has been taken by Chase Carey," he said.
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Forced out is a bit strong a term. He sold most of his share previously to CVC but he remained in charge. CVC has sold to Liberty Media and nothing to do with Ecclestone.
The fact they want to move the business forward without an 86 year old at the helm (albeit one who has been involved for decades) is their business.
What did Ecclestone think was going to happen?
The only part that I am surprised about is an individual or a company can have such a controlling stake and ownership in a sport. Can I buy the Football World Cup competition if I pay enough? Answer is probably yes.
Anyway Ecclestone owned a small share didn't he and he's about to make a few hundred million more. He can't be that unhappy. Now he can spend it now he can retire at 86.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 23 Jan 17 at 21:49
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I'll be glad to see the back of him, he has had too much control for too long and has spent too much time trying to make more and more money at the expense of the sport. He is, in my opinion, somewhat corrupt and has troughed well for himself and other already-rich people in the sport (e.g. team principals). He hasn't really worried too much about how the sport works out for the paying punters so long as he's sold enough TV rights or taken enough from each venue wanting to host a Grand Prix. It'll be interesting to see how the new owners develop the sport.
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It seems he's not completely retired but given a chairman role. I always thought he was a strange one, all that grubbing about after money and clinging on till he was not far off 90. Like I said a strange one.
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>> It seems he's not completely retired but given a chairman role.
>>
"Liberty Media has formally confirmed that Bernie Ecclestone has been succeeded as the CEO of F1 by Chase Carey, who already held the chairman title."
The company says that Ecclestone will be the “Chairman Emeritusâ€
"My new position is one of those American term," Ecclestone continued. "It's something like an honorary president. I have this title now, even though I don't know what it means."
Definition of emeritus: one retired from professional life but permitted to retain as an honorary title the rank of the last office held
However, Ecclestone's last official title was not Chairman. That's may be why he says he doesn't understand his new title.
>> I always thought he
>> was a strange one, all that grubbing about after money and clinging on till he
>> was not far off 90. Like I said a strange one.
>>
I think many high achieving individuals just cannot give up work. They thrive on it, they live on it. These people www.therichest.com/top-lists/top-250-richest-people-in-the-world/ could very easily spend their lives in "early retirement", but they choose to continue to "work".
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I think bill gates spends his time doing charity iirc. I wonder how many of that lost will still keep going till 86?
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Silly question... who controls the F1 regs, is it FIA or Bernie?
So could a the new guy bring back the V10's or is it all locked in for years to come?
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>> Silly question... who controls the F1 regs, is it FIA or Bernie?
FIA.
The hybrids and small capacity turbos come from the lies of Mercedes wanting to develop technology that will end up in road cars. V10's is a dead end.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 24 Jan 17 at 22:09
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Ross Brawn eyes Formula 1 changes to make sport 'purer & simpler'
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38734708
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I saw Christian Horner saying much the same on TV a couple of days ago, his theme was simpler cars and driver skill.
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>> I saw Christian Horner saying much the same on TV a couple of days ago,
>> his theme was simpler cars and driver skill.
Nice idea, but very difficult to do. It will always be highly technical, because making the car go faster is what it's about. Removing the hybrid aspect would reduce the entry costs but Ferrari, Mecrecdes, Red Bull and McLaren Honda could still spend $450m a year on their GP teams and their cars would still go faster than those of Marussia with their $80m.
Spending limits would just make the cars less good than they could be, even if there were not too many ways around spending limts for them to stick.
If it was only about driver skill then it would be easy, just commission somebody to build a supply of identical cars, but it wouldn't be Formula 1.
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Not a problem, a 5L V8 and a safety regulations, a level playing field any team can afford to compete on. :-)
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Meanwhile
Manor F1: Team fold after administrator fails to find buyer
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38772098
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After all the changes at vast expense what have we got so far ?
More durable tyres , lots of odd looking bits on the cars and lots of retirements.
Ignoring the excited commentators is it better racing ?
Cars seem to be able to return to the track after visiting the kitty litter so that is good and........
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>> After all the changes at vast expense what have we got so far ?
>>
Another procession..
How to lose supporters.
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Jean Todt: FIA president says F1 is too expensive and complicated
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/39396820
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>> Another procession..
>> How to lose supporters.
I reckon I'll paint the wall behind the telly for the next one and then if my eyelids manage to separate I'll have something more interesting to look at.
Did I really hear Coulthard refer to Vettel as "a cunning linguist" on the wind down lap?
Almost as good as Sean Bratches (Liberty's commercial boss) statement: "We are looking at reimagining our entire portfolio of digital offerings holistically".
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>> After all the changes at vast expense what have we got so far ?
>>
It hasn't moved on at all. Some great drives though, Vettel of course and the un retired Massa, called past it by some, couldn't have got any more out of the Williams, given 10/10 by Autosport.
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The fact that Hamilton on new tyres could rapidly reel in but not even nearly pass Verstappen on clapped out ones does not augur well for overtaking thrills. Apparently it was possible to follow at one second without significantly losing downforce, now that is two seconds.
I think the Ferraris might even be faster then the Mercedeses. Had Vettel got in front from the start I think he would have pulled away from Hamilton.
Did I read somewhere that UK TV coverage will be exclusive to Sky from 2019? That would be the end of it for me, unfortunately.
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>> Did I read somewhere that UK TV coverage will be exclusive to Sky from 2019?
>> That would be the end of it for me, unfortunately.
No live races (apart from Silverstone), just highlights.
All F1 races will still be available on a free-to-air basis via highlights.
www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123442
www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/03/23/uk-lose-live-free-air-f1-2019-sky/
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Not trying to make a facetious point.
Does anybody actually watch F1 live? Or at least in full?
The highlights works for me. On the rare occasions I've watched a full F1 (maybe twice on the TV) it has been interminably boring.
Even live, in the best of circumstance, watching a whole race is too much.
So the idea that only headlines and highlights will be available free doesn't really bother me. Its hardly news that needs to be known within a day of reality, anyway.
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I usually avoid reading the result and sit down late Sunday afternoon to watch the live race (free to air only these days) which I've recorded. I'm invariably snoozing before lap 10 and I seem to wake with a few laps to go.
The exception is (usually) Monaco which I find a real spectacle.
Mind you, my ability to doze is legendary. I was once in the grandstands over the start/finish line at Le Mans. They went off on the formation lap, came hurtling through for the race start, and I was asleep by lap 3. And the noise there is phenomenal.
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So not good marks here from those who bother to watch F1 these days.
Seems there is LESS overtaking from these odd looking, odd sounding cars.
Grid position appears to be even more important before the the train of cars is established
Tyres sometimes last longer so we see less action in the pits and so fewer chances of mistakes.
There used to be more dicing in the pit lane than on the track.
Loads more PR speak and no more Bernie mumblings.
How many more stars with a "hard to come by" grid pass will we see as they try to further bling up the show.
I for one will not be paying out to watch things live.
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Couple of things..
We need to wait on the overtaking. Albert Park was always difficult anyway. From what LH said although the aero is more disturbed, the mechanical grip from the tyres is better.
I read an article that said from 2019 (IIRC) there will be no live F1 on free to air in the UK. Though that was signed whilst Bernie was in charge. That really needs to change, or at least Sky need to revert to and F1 package (£5 a month) rather than having to get full Skysports to get F1.
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Bahrain was a good race. I expect that many will say it wasn't but as F1 goes it was exciting.
I'm glad to see the back of Bernie.
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www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41964197
Lewis Hamilton: Formula 1's three engine limit for drivers 'sucks'
A new direction ? Down the tubes ?
Lets have new faster bigger cars. Oh we have them.
Lets have more grid penalties, fuel saving, tyre saving, less engines etc etc.
What happened to the suggestion of hosing parts of the circuit for more excitement? :-)
Fans no longer know what is going on EXCEPT when fast cars/drivers cars get stuffed to the back of the grid.
The rest of the Brazilian GP was boring boring except for Max showing what his car could really do near the end of the race.
One overtake in the first corner and then lets all form a queue and stay there for xx laps.
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Alonso will drive an Andretti car badged as McLaren at this years Indy 500. Button will drive a McLaren at Monaco.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/39599645
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Yes-he's after the triple crown-only Graham Hill has held it.F1,Indy500 and 24 hours at Le Mans!
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Quote
Fernando Alonso has made it clear the uncompetitive level of his McLaren made his decision to miss the Monaco Grand Prix in favour of racing at the Indy 500 a straightforward one.
The Spaniard, who is preparing for Sunday’s Bahrain Grand Prix, says his focus remains on Formula One but pointed out that in the absence of a chance to add to his two world titles he wants to prove himself as a driver across different series.
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Mates are speculating (a bit wildly admittedly!) that he will also move into the WEC in 2018 or 19 and go for the triple crown of F1, Indycar and Le Mans. There's quite a history of F1 drivers at Le Mans, and Barrichello is there for the first time this year, racing in Jan Lammer's team.
Apparently Jim Clark skipped Monaco and also won the Indianapolis 500. He's the only driver to have won the Indy 500 and the F1 title in the same year.
Alonso's contract is up at the end of the season so it's also being suggested it's a sweetener by McLaren to hold onto him.
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 14 Apr 17 at 13:39
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I was at the Indi 500 in 2010. It was an amazing experience!
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Alonso said he was "happy" but had been slightly delayed by an engine issue.
Thought he'd be used to that by now, given that he has an issue nearly every race with the F1 Honda engine.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 22 May 17 at 01:14
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www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41230504
( No F1 comments on here for months. A small n indication of F1 loosing its way ?)
Last edited by: henry k on Mon 11 Sep 17 at 22:29
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I still watch it and there have been a few really good races this year. I don't bother posting about it much cos most seem to just want to say (again) how boring it is, even when the last race they watched was probably 4 seasons ago... I go to a motor racing forum to discuss racing!! :-)
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I'm really surprised at Honda and not being able to pull their fingers out to produce a decent engine. It's not even the lack of speed either, reliability (or rather lack of it) is also an issue.
Granted their first season was a learning curve for them, but two years on and still no further forward.
And why hasn't Alonso jumped ship by now? I must admit to loving his snide remarks made toward Honda on the track.
For what was once a brilliant F1 team, they're currently the joke of the pack.
Unfortunately Williams seem to have lost their way too, and they've using the Mercedes customer engine.
At least Ferrari are giving AMG Mercedes a run for their money this year.
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I am surprised at Honda too. They are better than this engineering wise surely. Alonso must be on a good retainer otherwise he'd have left before now - maybe Renault will deliver,
They are a bit of a joke like you say.
I am enjoying this season - no point posting here because there is little interest.
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>> I am surprised at Honda too. They are better than this engineering wise surely.
I think this situation just about sums up Honda as it is now. Lacklustre products, very little imagination and falling far behind the curve of technical excellence and innovation.
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>> >> I am surprised at Honda too. They are better than this engineering wise surely.
>>
>> I think this situation just about sums up Honda as it is now. Lacklustre products,
>> very little imagination and falling far behind the curve of technical excellence and innovation.
That isn't how I read it, although my impression is that Honda has always had a conservative approach to engineering. The existing manufacturers heavily influenced the current engine regs and had years of a start. Honda were always struggling to get it right and must have cut every possible corner to try and do it as soon as possible to catch up. Difficult to do it right, when you have to do it now. They haven't a free hand to innovate, they have to build to rules that were largely designed by their rivals.
Innovation in road cars is also a different skill to F1, and what customers see as innovation in ordinary cars is often little more than marketing. In the early 2000s Daimler Chrysler bought what was Ilmor who had been building "Mercedes Benz" race engines for McLaren since the 1990s.
I wouldn't be surprised if Honda pack it in again, but if they don't then they will likely succeed.
Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 12 Sep 17 at 16:14
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Honda would also be struggling in MotoGP if they didn't have Mark Marquez, the Yamaha is still probably the best bike overall and Ducati are leading the championship with Doviziozo.
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Ducati seem to have got it right at last HC, don't they? I do agree about Yamaha but just how good would Rossi have been last Sunday in that rain if he hadn't have been injured?
I'm not a Marquez fan but that was a bit of perfect planning the way he overtook on the last lap:)
Pat
Note: We'll get told off now, we're not allowed to talk about MotoGP here, we have to use the dedicated MotoGP thread, you know;)
Last edited by: Pat on Tue 12 Sep 17 at 17:03
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>>I wouldn't be surprised if Honda pack it in again,
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41265779
>> but if they don't then they will likely succeed.
I lot of folks are also hoping,
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Toro Rosso are already due to use Honda engines next season. Red Bull are only using Renault still (although badged differently) because they had no options.
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>> I must admit to loving his snide remarks made toward Honda on the track.
Surprised Alonso hasn't come out with this one yet.
How Odd-No Damn Acceleration
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I still follow F1 and watch the C4 coverage. However it is not as interesting as it was IMO. Innovation has largely given way to incremental improvements in aerodynamics and engine performance.
There are two interesting F1-related articles in October's Motorsport magazine.
One is a short piece by Mark Hughes that questions whether the manufacturers have too much control. They appear to be pushing the post-2020 engine regs further down the path of the hybrid turbo V6 with only "tweaks to address noise and cost" (more incrementalism). I won't summarise the entire article.
The other is really excellent, a fascinating analysis of why the Arrows A4 of 1982 failed so dismally, yet has in the last few years been regularly thrashing Williams FW08s, one of which Keke Rosberg won the 1982 championship in, FW07s, a Brabham BT49 and a Lotus 91. It's quite a technical analysis, and the answers are in the detail of set-up, aero efficiency, and tyre performance (Arrows used Pirellis, the Goodyears were better and the Goodyear qualifying tyre very much better, putting Arrows even further down the starting grid). Some of this disadvantage is neutralised by Historic Racing requirements which stipulate a standard Avon tyre, and a 4cm ride height.
Inter alia there is a paragraph on the 'loophole' used by some of the other non-turbo opposition - they were essentially underweight, but rules allowed top-up of fluids before weighing. They would start the race with up to 50Kg of 'brake coolant' which would be rapidly jettisoned, to be replaced before the weigh-in.
The aero comparison is too long to go into here but fascinating.
F1 is still 'interesting', just; but, as Mark Hughes's article suggests, that interest will be eroded if manufacturers succeed in turning it into a pure technology showcase and PR exercise by using their influence to funnel the rules towards their preferred direction of travel.
Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 12 Sep 17 at 11:57
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>> I still follow F1 and watch the C4 coverage. However it is not as interesting
>> as it was IMO. >>
Absolutely!
The last year of any real interest was 2009 where the Brawn team came out of nowhere to beat the big boys.
And 2007 and 2008 were also great seasons though Massa really deserved the championship in '08 having had a engine failure in Hungary while leading and having put his car on pole and driven away from the field in treacherous conditions in Brazil while Hamilton floundered and lucked into a 5th place.
1999 was also very interesting where Schumacher surely would have won though broke his leg at Silverstone, Ferrari put their efforts behind Irvine, Salo (standing in for Schumacher) gave Irvine the win at Monza (IIRC), Schumacher came back and supported Irvine though Hakkinen took the title.
Otherwise the 80's were great, I followed F1 very closely then (and subsequently had some peripheral involvement), I have a fascinating book called the 1000 bhp Grand Prix Cars, by Ian Bamsey, first published in '88 at the end of the turbo era, a great analysis of the all of the 1.5 turbo engines from the '77 Renault to the Ford Cosworth V6 that didn't have the chance to fulfil it's promise.
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I'm either having a blond moment or a senior moment, perhaps both, but I can't find *the* thread. Mods, if you can only emotionally cope with one thread with the subject of F1, perhaps you'd kindly move this one.
But my question is; if Schumacher is the benchmark, how good a driver is Lewis Hamilton?
Wins and other successes depend as much on the quality of those around you. Simplistically to win you do not need to be good, you simply need to be better than those around you.
More than that, the fastest driver will not reliably beat the fastest car.
So if Schumacher and Hamilton hit the tracks in identical cars that, by some miracle, they were equally familiar with, who would be the better driver?
I am not close follower, but it seems to me as if Schumacher utterly dominated the sport, whereas Hamilton simply scores mreo0 points.
But perhaps I'm wrong.
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Schumacher won in bad cars. He was head and shoulders above his peers for 10 years or more, he was in a different league.
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>>He was head and shoulders above his peers for 10 years or more
Yes, but so what? Was he that good or were they mediocre (in F1 terms, not compared to us mortals).
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Yes he was better, he could win in not the best car, he had far better race management, could nurse a wounded car much better, he controlled the team, he controlled a race and those around him in the race, and when he threw his toys out of his pram it was done in a controlled manner with purpose and a planed outcome.
None of those traits apply to Hamilton.
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>>when he threw his toys out of his pram it was done in a controlled manner
Like when he drove into the back of Coulthard, who was limping back to his pit with a sick car?
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>> >>when he threw his toys out of his pram it was done in a controlled
>> manner
>>
>> Like when he drove into the back of Coulthard, who was limping back to his
>> pit with a sick car?
>>
Or when he deliberately sideswiped Damon Hill
Schumacher was a great driver but he was no angel and n to much of a sportsman at times
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>> >>when he threw his toys out of his pram it was done in a controlled
>> manner
>>
>> Like when he drove into the back of Coulthard, who was limping back to his
>> pit with a sick car?
>>
Yes DC crapped when ever MS was around, never got in his way again. Sportsman? Sportsmen don't win, winners win
All Hamiltin does when throws a paddy is to damage his or his own teams chances, takes a while to recover
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I'm surprised there's no comment about Verstappen's treatment at the US GP.
I'm no supporter of him, but feel he was dealt with very harshly for his last corner overtake of Raikkonen.
He drove a blinder from 16th to 3rd, which in no way should affect the penalty, but there were many instances of drivers 'exceeding the track limits' without being punished. I believe they're usually given three strikes before given a warning normally. A five second penalty and a point on his licence............. I can understand why he called the steward an idiot and why Mark Webber called it a 5h1t decision.
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I've deleted it now, but was he not off the track when he overtook Raikonnen? A bit beyond ignoring perhaps.
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I've given up commenting on F1 here as there seem to be so many who are anti.
But while the decision was very harsh it was also "by the book". His crossing the line gave him a speed advantage which facilitated the overtake. Conversely, if he hadn't crossed the line he wouldn't have had the legs to do it.
I think it was very harsh and he is a great driver, much better than his Dad (who I thought at one time was a potential champion), but it's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.
His turn will come.
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>> Conversely, if he hadn't crossed the line he wouldn't have had the legs to do it.
Also, if he hadn't crossed the line he would have run into Raikkonen who turned in on him.
I think it was the same steward who served him a penalty last year too.
As was said after the race, there was total inconsistency. It was happening all through the race, as well as during Saturday qualifying. Had he been fighting for a lower finishing position then it would have been ignored.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 24 Oct 17 at 02:11
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It was a tad harsh but correct in my opinion.
All through the race drivers were going outside track limits, but at no point did one gain a position or noticeable advantage.
You have to draw the line somewhere, and all his 4 wheels were off the track.
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The question is did Raikonnen defend as he was entitled to to, blocking the inside line which Verstappen circumvented by going off piste (deserved penalty) or did Raikonnen barge Verstappen off when he was alongside (undeserved penalty).
I've deleted it so I can't go and check, but I suspect it was on the cusp, hence the controversy.
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>> I've given up commenting on F1 here as there seem to be so many who
>> are anti.
>>
Not anti, it's just so tedious these days, a shadow of its former self, yawn, zzzzz
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Far too many rules and regs these days, most brought in to try and spice things up a bit.
Just let the drivers do what they do best, that's drive.
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>> Far too many rules and regs these days, most brought in to try and spice
>> things up a bit.
>>
>> Just let the drivers do what they do best, that's drive.
Notably the use of safety cars. The race can be neutralised by the use of the virtual safety car on most occasions but often isn't and the real one comes out. This penalises those who have just stopped and completely negates a multi-stop strategy as a driver who has built up pit stop's worth of lead loses it all.
I have come to the view that DRS is a good thing.
The biggest nonsense at the moment is the way engine/gearbox etc. penalties are imposed.
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Isn't the engine stuff designed to level the playing field a bit between the rich teams and the less rich, by stopping the rich ones just dropping in a new engine each race?
And the safety car appears to me to be as much a tool to level the field too, and avoid the start to finish processions which happened some years ago.
There is some really good racing these days, and I wonder whether those who say it is boring have tried it recently. I mean, it's not all thrills and spills and major crashes and deaths any more, if that's what floats your boat, but the tactics and the racing (and sometimes the rules to give/take away an advantage) combine to bring a different level of interest.
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>>There is some really good racing these days, and I wonder whether those who say it is boring have tried it recently.
And therein lies.....
In the past, with its thrills, spills and crashes, then one could watch highlights and be entertained by individual incidents and happenings.
Now, however, its far more of a tactical/strategic process and to get the value out of it one really needs to watch a whole race, I think. And that takes time, uninterrupted time at that.
The fact that the time of day jumps all over the place depending on which time zone the race is in does not help.
I like it, and on the rare occasions I can sit down and watch a race, I enjoy it.
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>> Isn't the engine stuff designed to level the playing field a bit between the rich
>> teams and the less rich, by stopping the rich ones just dropping in a new
>> engine each race?
Yes, but they need to find a way of doing it that doesn't penalise the drivers. Deduct manufacturer points, fine them and give the money to the poor teams...
>> And the safety car appears to me to be as much a tool to level
>> the field too, and avoid the start to finish processions which happened some years ago.
It's not supposed to be a handicap, is it?
>>
>> There is some really good racing these days,
This has been a reasonably good season.
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>> Isn't the engine stuff designed to level the playing field a bit between the rich
>> teams and the less rich, >>
The 2.4 V8s were cheaper, they were easily unified in performance terms though were still evocative and exciting.
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Hamilton.
News reports were stating he had to finish fifth or higher to win the championship
So how did he do it coming ninth?
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 30 Oct 17 at 14:06
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Because his main rival Vettell only finished fourth so fewer points scored than expected by him
If Vettell had won and scored 25 points Hamilton would have had to finish fifth or higher.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 30 Oct 17 at 14:06
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Yawn ...
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 30 Oct 17 at 14:06
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>> Yawn ...
>>
Why do you read it then?
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>> >> Yawn ...
>> >>
>>
>> Why do you read it then?
>>
Just reinforcing tne point that F1 is boring as hell and a shadow of its former self.
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>> If Vettell had won and scored 25 points Hamilton would have had to finish fifth or higher.
Vettel had to finish in at least 2nd place to take the championship through to the next race.
Good old Verstappen stirred things up with another one of his impressive starts. I can see him being a world champion in the not too distant future.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 30 Oct 17 at 14:06
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Ferrari could quit Formula 1 over new proposals by Liberty Media
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41857101
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Ross Brawn says Formula 1 'can't leave engines as it is'
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41986411
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>> Ross Brawn says Formula 1 'can't leave engines as it is'
>> www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41986411
>>
The proposal that the engines must be "Louder" makes it sound like it was written by a group of fourteen year olds.
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>> The proposal that the engines must be "Louder" makes it sound like it was written
>> by a group of fourteen year olds.
There's progress, the regs for the last three or four years have been written by four year olds it seems ...
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 19 Nov 17 at 20:11
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What would happen if there were no rules?
Would it simply favour those with the most money, or would it permit diversity? Or would everybody close in on the single 'perfect' solution?
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>> What would happen if there were no rules?
Boadicea hub caps? Actually I think the must already sharpen the end plates on those front wings.
The nearest there has been in high level racing to no rules was probably Can-Am. Very fast, faster than F1 cars on some circuits. Surtees was quite good at it.
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Williams driver to retire at end of the season. Massa, who has won 11 grands prix, says this time his decision is final.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41870426
One of the good guys IMHO. Trouble is, the good guys don't always win. #thinks back to 2008 when he almost won the world title.
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He'd retired and only came back because of the unexpected retirement of Rosberg meaning Bottas went to MB. And lets not forget his injury that nearly caused more than retirement.
I like Massa - he will be missed as a driver I think.
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Sorry on re-reading spotted your 2nd time reference.
I think Rosberg did right retiring after achieving is goal of a F1 title.
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Frankly, having helped Williams by not retiring, having his enthusiasm reignited and having said he would like to do another season I think Williams have treated Massa a little unfairly by not confirming him for 2018 and then procrastinating.
Massa outscored Raikkonen over two seasons together at Ferrari, was unlucky in '07 and really should have been champ in '08, he was driving away from the field in Hungary when his engine failed costing him ten points, just one of which wouod have made him champion, and his drive in the season finale is one of the best of all time, putting it on pole and again driving away from the field in treacherous conditions while eventual champ Hamilton lucked in to fifth place.
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I would like to agree that Massa was hard done to, but it looked inevitable. Massa was paid c. $5m for 2017, Sirotkin reportedly brings $20m of sponsorship. Stroll was also a 'pay' driver.
Webber has muttered a bit about Williams using F1 as a "finishing school".
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>> I would like to agree that Massa was hard done to, but it looked inevitable.
>> Massa was paid c. $5m for 2017, Sirotkin reportedly brings $20m of sponsorship.
And Massa was no longer a top notch F1 driver - his bottle went.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 26 Mar 18 at 12:13
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Yet another race won by safety car & pit tactics, rather than on the track.
Not a fan of the new Halo system at all. It initially blocked the view of the road from one of the camera angles, so not really thought out, despite all the testing. And personally I think it makes the car look damn ugly.
Verstappen's car control is exceptional. Anyone else would have spun off into the barriers. He managed to catch the slide, and carry on as if nothing had happened.
Haas had some bad luck with the wheels coming off both cars. Prior to that they were showing good pace.
And McLaren finally look like they've got a competitive car again.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 26 Mar 18 at 10:32
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>> Haas had some bad luck with the wheels coming off both cars.
One wheel is bad luck, two consecutive wheels is team incompetence.
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Verstappen's car control is indeed exceptional, but he didn't exactly catch the slide, he went round 360 degrees.
Maybe that was instinctual but I doubt it. Bottas spun at the same corner in qualifying and smashed his car to bits but my recollection is that he lost it on the kerb on the exit whereas Verstappen's spin started around the apex so he was going more slowly. Can't revisit as I have deleted it.
I didn't enjoy the race. Melbourne may be fast and challenging but when overtaking is near impossible it becomes boring. The result was determined by the fact that Vettel hadn't had his pit stop when Haas ballsed theirs up and their cars had to be recovered. Vettel was able to stop under the safety car, in the process losing less distance on track than Hamilton and Raikonnen, and came out ahead of Hamilton instead of several seconds behind.
Raikonnen also lost out to Vettel, although he would probably have been expected to give second to Vettel anyway.
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 26 Mar 18 at 12:09
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>> Verstappen's car control is indeed exceptional, but he didn't exactly catch the slide, he went round 360 degrees.
Yeah, but he still ended up facing the correct direction and didn't hit anything in the process.
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I keep sticking up for F1 and I really do still enjoy it but it has to get better for the mass appeal doesn't it? Mind you, there were thousands there yesterday and the TV stations have paid a small fortune for the rights so they must be retaining a large fan base.
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Up until about 15 years ago you'd see me at most British GPs and a smattering of "local" European ones from time to time. In the old days The "Race of Champions" at Brands Hatch was a must every year too.
Since, I dropped back to watching F1 cars on the telly only. More recently, probably for the last 5 - 10 years or so I've even given up fully watching on the telly.
For the last few seasons up to say 2014, I've sometimes watched the starts only and then switched off and gone back to my Sunday papers.
For me, it's now all over. The excitement has gone, no wheel to wheel dicing, no frequent lead changes. It's just processional with "highlights" of pit-stops and safety car lead changes. Don't ask me about DRS (?) zones or whatever they are called - they mean nothing to me.
It is just so, so boring.
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>> For the last few seasons up........I've sometimes watched the starts only
>> and then switched off and gone back to my Sunday papers.
>>
>> For me, it's now all over. The excitement has gone, no wheel to wheel dicing,
>> no frequent lead changes. It's just processional with "highlights" of pit-stops and safety car lead
>> changes. Don't ask me about DRS (?) zones or whatever they are called - they
>> mean nothing to me.
>>
>> It is just so, so boring.
Exactly the same for me.
Yesterday, I saw something on the TV news with the sound turned low. I saw a red car go over the line and I thought I heard them say 'Vettel'. I couldn't be bothered to turn the sound up on the remote to find out for sure.
Last edited by: Duncan on Mon 26 Mar 18 at 16:50
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Same here, although the teams still get swamped at Goodwood with kids looking for a close up picture with the stars so must have some appeal to the young ones.
For me I switched to the GT endurance races (24hr races) and LMP1 (until the big teams pulled out) their cars were amazing the Audi e-tron's sounded cool and the final fights between them and Porsche intrigued me.
Might go to Brands (my local) for some of the Porsche cup races or the DTM when it comes over.
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I am with you Duncan.I like to see the start of the race and the rest maybe.
It is becoming to technical.A bit like premier league football the top teams are foreign players in the U.K.
Today the finish not to bad Vettel just made it from Potash second.
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Much better race with actual overtaking.
McLaren must be sick as parrots to have finished behind a Toro Rosso with a Honda engine.
Ferrari over the moon with the win but presumably sick as parrots to have released Räikkönen's car with one wheel unchanged, and running over their mechanic and breaking his leg.
Red Bull sick beyond cliché that neither car stayed the course.
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>> McLaren must be sick as parrots to have finished behind a Toro Rosso with a
>> Honda engine.
Doubt it, after two races they have a driver in 4th place and 3rd in the constructors title. This is heady stuff compared to the last few seasons.
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Yuman nature Z. They'll be thinking what could have been. And if two Red Bulls and a Ferrari hadn't retired they'd have been three places lower today.
Good to see them getting points mind.
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Don't real watch any more but did see start today and some of race...
Virtual safety car? what's that all about? and the cars have to stay where they are on the track so no catching up?
Is this F1 thing or will we see this in all FIA racing like WEC?
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That Ferrari mechanic got a right sore one - had to watch it a couple of times and cringed with pain watching it!
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F1. A new direction ? - henry k
