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More pedal power chat.
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Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 28 Oct 16 at 16:54
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I have just read todays Commercial Motor only to learn this
>> FORS reveals plans to clamp down on “incorrect†cycle safety signage after complaints from cycling pressure groups<<
This is an illuminated sign which lights up on the nearside of the lorry and bleeps when it is turning left. It has been developed by a firm who have a lot of lorries working in London on a daily basis and has been marketed and bought by a considerable amount of other firms.
They have all been told to remove them if they want to keep their FORS accreditation despite the FORS auditor saying he thinks they are brilliant.
Apparently it is in response to 'various cycling groups@
Can you throw any light on this Bromp please?
I absolutely give up trying to help those who don't want to be helped.
Pat
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Pat - don't use a TLA (Three Letter Abbreviation) for something that is is not in common usage without putting it in words the first time. I had to google it.
FORS=Fleet Operator Recognition Scheme
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Tell me about it (not Pat!).
Reading an article this afternoon that would insist on the abbreviation "kya" with no explanation, and Google was no help at all. Eventually they used in a context where it suddenly clicked, so I think I know what means now, but it was tricky.
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...but isn't that an FLA ;-)
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As a rule, both three and four letter abbreviations get called TLAs. I worked for the BBC which still is a past master at confusion, even if the posts of HETx Ops, EiC, STM and STE are long since gone with splitting off of Transmitter Group.
Head of Transmitter Group Operations, Engineer in Charge, Senior Transmitter Manager and Senior Transmitter Engineer.
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Thu 21 Jul 16 at 21:18
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...in which case you shouldn't use the acronym TLA without fully expanding it....
;-)
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>> As a rule, both three and four letter abbreviations get called TLAs.
Acronyms. An abbreviation is a different thing entirely.
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And there you have it. A pedants hat for No FM2R.
The term TLA is frequently applied to both three and four letter abbreviations as well as acronyms. One could be more precise in speech and writing, but brevity would suffer and I suspect the recipient would either imagine the user to be on something, or a bit thick...
A chacun son goût" n'est pas?
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No it isn't. Even in the lauded, revered yet endlessly appalling BBC abbreviations and acronyms were referred to correctly.
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Sorry SP, I completely take your point though.
The problem is, in my world, it is in common usage!
Which makes a mockery of me lecturing someone on another thread about living in their own personal bubble:)
Going to make my second coffee of the day now and reflect on the fact that I have never been rebuked so early in the day before!
Pat
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Pat - not really a problem, just a good general point. In some circles I move in, QRO and QRP are in common usage, but few here will have heard them.
And the explanations on the web are at best incomplete, and at worst, plain wrong. QRO in high transmitter power, QRP is low power. But both are heavily modified by context and can be a statement or a question. Use comes about through the use of morse code where saying anything in fewer keyclicks is a major advantage.
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>> Can you throw any light on this Bromp please?
Not immediately. While I'm an activist in a personal sense I'm only in the CTC UKCycling and I've not seen anything via them. More likely commuter activists in the London Cycling Campaign. I'll have a look around.
For as long as I rode the B in London (1999-2013) there was perfectly good and relatively standardised signage used on construction vehicles etc and many artics. Some of the later variants had an element of the better mousetrap about them and were also overused on everything down to car derived vans.
I'm not sure endlessly repeated voice messages along same lines as 'Securicor van reversing' add much value either - aural clutter.
EDIT: Some FORS stuff here:
www.fors-online.org.uk/cms/warning-signage/
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 21 Jul 16 at 20:13
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXj9AqAHQk0
As far as I'm aware this is the sign that the objections are about.
Pat
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twitter.com/WillShiers/status/756213712663351296
Editor of Commercial Motor on Twitter confirms this is the sign.
Pat
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>>Can you throw any light on this Bromp please?<<
Did you find exactly what the objections are Bromp?
Pat
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>> Did you find exactly what the objections are Bromp?
Couldn't find anything specific on LCC website. Reading between lines of the public statements from FORS they have something like a cycling focus group so presumably the message came from there. Part of the objection seems to be the commanding nature of the 'stay back' message. I don't think cyclists are alone in bristling at commands from other road users. As I said above the long standing signs pointing out the dangers of undertaking are perfectly adequate.
The repetitive voice message can actually be distracting and mask other sounds which provide part of one's situational awareness from the saddle. They are also extremely wearing if you work close to a junction or building site and hear the damn thing every five minutes all day. My office in Chancery Lane overlooked a long term demolition/construction site on the corner of Breams Buildings. Reversing beeps/messages drove us mad for eighteen months!!
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>> Reversing beeps/messages drove us mad
My office used to be near a goods in/out loading bay. I know exactly what you mean.
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>> >>Can you throw any light on this Bromp please?<<
>>
>> Did you find exactly what the objections are Bromp?
>>
>> Pat
Probably that the cyclists would not be able to place the blame elsewhere for their own stupidity. If they ignore a flashing turn indicator nothing short of an extendable razor wire electrified fence is liable to stop them from suicidal road positioning.
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Congratulations to Chris Froome for being the first Briton to win the Tour de France three times. His running up Mt Ventoux is a first (and hopefully last) in Tour history. Honourable mention to Adam Yates for winning the White Jersey (first in the under 25 age group) at the age of 23 - greater things await him surely.
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>> Congratulations to Chris Froome for being the first Briton to win the Tour de France
>> three times.
Now that's just showing off!
:-)
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Well done Chris Froome your my hero.
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>>Congratulations to Chris Froome for being the first Briton to win the Tour de France three times.
>>
A great performance. It might have been five wins .
Many believed he could have won when he came second and was loyal to Bradley.
Two years ago he was in great shape when he crashed and damaged his wrists.
There are several top riders that might just beat him but it may also depend if he keeps the same team. Richie Port had bad luck, a puncture ( plus one bad day) else he might have challenged.
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Would like to see the TDF ran on non team rules and see who wins it.
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>> Would like to see the TDF ran on non team rules and see who wins
>> it.
>>
Cycle road racing is a team sport and has been since the very early days. Team tactics are as much part of the game as individual performances and add to the spectacle.
Froome is a truly great rider, very much under appreciated because he doesn't project the public personality of someone like Wiggins or Cavendish.
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For London deliveries: tinyurl.com/hegteqv
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I've seen something like that years ago. And then you can still get the 'stop me and buy one' ice cream bikes. Just takes a modicum of business sense to fit pedal power into your overall stratagy.
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The ones I remember are like those on the Pashley website:
tinyurl.com/hb66txe
These cargo bikes have a very low centre of gravity in comparison, which must be an advantage. They look rather long, however, to fit "in an apartment lift for those who live in flats.â€
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Noticed today that one of the men's track cycles was using a left hand chain set, I've never seen this before, is there any advantage to this? why is it done?
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" . left hand chain set, is there any advantage to this? why is it done? . "
No definitive answer, but a thought -
When i played football i was two footed, more accurate with my right foot, but more powerful with my right, maybe something to do with power ?
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>> Noticed today that one of the men's track cycles was using a left hand chain
>> set, I've never seen this before, is there any advantage to this? why is it
>> done?
Changing the centre of gravity of the bike to give them an advantage.
But mostly flannel, I understand.
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>> >> Noticed today that one of the men's track cycles was using a left hand chain set,
>>>> I've never seen this before, is there any advantage to this? why is it done?
>>
>> Changing the centre of gravity of the bike to give them an advantage.
>> But mostly flannel, I understand.
>>
The only reference I have seen or heard was an aside from Chris Boardman.
It was investigated by the British team 10 years ago and dismissed.
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It is meant to give an aerodynamic advantage, the right hand side of the bike taking a longer route round the track and the conventional drive train having to cut through a greater amount of air. It does make sense on the face of it, but the gains may be too marginal to make it worthwhile.
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If you missed the programme called "Inside the Factory" last week, shame, as it was about Walker's crisps, and quite interesting.
More relevant to this thread, it was on again last night, and was about the Brompton factory, along with demos of various "new" sorts of bicycles. Given the hands on labour intensive building methods of the bike, I'm amazed the business hasn't folded.
It was very dreary for my taste, but it might interest someone here, briefly, for a picosecond.
Amazingly patronising with gushy presenters asking stupid "tv" questions everyone over the age of three knows the answer to, but hey, that's how tv is made these days, mutter mutter whinge. Not exactly "Monitor", is it.
Anyway, it's here:
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07mddqk
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>> it was on again last night, and was about the
>> Brompton factory,
>>, I'm amazed the business hasn't folded.
Ho ho.
I have wondered why they haven't been forced to move production somewhere cheaper.
I think being British made, of brilliant design, decent quality and niche helps them to maintain high prices. They certainly aren't cheap. I love mine.
I think they have licensed foreign manufacture in the past but they stopped it because the quality was suspect. But they could open their own factory, as Loake has done in India.
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 17 Aug 16 at 12:11
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>> I think being British made, of brilliant design, decent quality and niche helps them to
>> maintain high prices. They certainly aren't cheap. I love mine.
>>
>> I think they have licensed foreign manufacture in the past but they stopped it because
>> the quality was suspect. But they could open their own factory, as Loake has done
>> in India.
>>
Ho ho indeed!
The prices they charge for their bikes, they can continue paying high UK labour rates!
Yes, they did try licensing in the past and it didn't work, because of quality control issues.
I missed this so will try and see it.
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>>I think they have licensed foreign manufacture in the past but they stopped it because the quality was suspect. But they could open their own factory, as Loake has done in India.
Yes the did. Unfortunately when the cancelled the contracts due to the quality issues the foreign manufacturers kept making them which is why you have poor quality clones.
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I was intending to watch the episode about North American shirt lifters, but I never got a roun tuit.
Tis good to see it's available for another 22 daze: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07nwlvg
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>>If you missed the programme called "Inside the Factory" last week, shame, as it was about Walker's crisps, and quite interesting.>>
All the programmes so far have been very absorbing and informative; however, IIRC, last week's programme was about Heinz and its massive baked beans factory at Kitt Green, Wigan. I live about 15 miles away from it..:-)
The Brompton cycles episode last night made it clear, I thought, that if you turn out a high quality product and in high enough volumes to satisfy a big customer base, then you will rightly succeed.
You get what you pay for and that's the same for anything. Great to see that Brompton values the skills of it employees so highly and supports them to the full.
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>>
>> All the programmes so far have been very absorbing and informative; however, IIRC, last week's
>> programme was about Heinz and its massive baked beans factory at Kitt Green, Wigan. I
>> live about 15 miles away from it..:-)
>
You're right, Walkers was two weeks ago. I've, er, bean on holiday and missed one.
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>> IIRC, last week's programme was about Heinz and its massive baked beans factory at Kitt Green, Wigan. I live about 15 miles away from it..:-)<<
I've spent so, so many nights sleeping on the road outside of those factory gates:)
Pat
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>>I've spent so, so many nights sleeping on the road outside of those factory gates:)>>
You weren't feeling full of beans at the time then? :-) :-)
Last edited by: Stuartli on Wed 17 Aug 16 at 16:48
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No:)
Even if you're booked to load in the morning they won't even let you in to use the loo!
Pat
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Photos of Team Sky plus photos and descriptions of the vehicles used in the race - link to a motoring forum in India:
tinyurl.com/zn2pzqr
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There's some great pics there, thanks for the link.
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Just found that the men's MTB is one of the last competitions of the Olympics today (women's was yesterday), and it seems Peter Sagan (Road sprinter) is taking part, should be interesting to see how he gets on with the change of specialities.
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Sagan started his career as a mountain biker before switching to the road. He was world junior champion in 2008.
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OK that explains it, always wondered why he was so confident pulling wheelies on a road bike over the line of a TdF stage, a big audience if he messed up!
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As reported by the Beeb, he has "invited viewers to "see what you think"" about a road rage incident.
The driver in question seemed pretty aggressive to me till you got the front facing camera shot, when he clearly could have easily moved over to let her pass but chose not to, thus incurring the worst of her wrath.
Yet another clip which reflects almost as badly on the cyclist as on the driver.
You probably need a Facebook account to view it.
www.facebook.com/The-Jeremy-Vine-1691455784407633/
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Tis on yootube too: www.youtube.com/watch?v=QthaNaKoFTU .. Mad b itch.
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But at the point he stopped and she kicked off... he could have got out of the way. A bit of both to blame?
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>>A bit of both to blame?
You're not wrong ;)
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Amongst comments on Jeremy Vine's twitter feed and facebook post, some included the MOT and Road Tax history of the car. It seems the car was untaxed at time of incident.
Anyhow the driver "Shayna" spouted off to the Sun yesterday
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3773297
Today it is reported that " woman was arrested on September 2 after police assessed the footage. Scotland Yard said: "The 22-year-old woman was arrested on suspicion of common assault and a public order offence. She has been bailed to return to police on a date in early September."
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/05/woman-arrested-over-jeremy-vine-cycle-rant-footage/
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>> The driver in question seemed pretty aggressive to me till you got the front facing
>> camera shot, when he clearly could have easily moved over to let her pass but
>> chose not to, thus incurring the worst of her wrath.
There are no ifs/buts. She was full on stupid aggressive. I don't think your suggestion that Vine could have pulled over holds much water either.
It's a narrow urban road with parking both sides. If not a 20 limit it should be and no sensible driver or rider will do more.
She joins the road behind him as he passes a large red brick building on his right. At that point there are spaces to both right and left, the latter would be an OK place to pull in, slow down and wave a faster vehicle past. But at that point she's well behind and not showing any wish to overtake, plenty of London drivers would be content to do that until the next block.
While she's tailgating/hooting there are no spaces. There are some upcoming on the right but, aside from fact that he's then committed to stop/explain, there's a danger she'll try and dive in there to get past. In fact she does just that after they restart and nearly collides with a parked car.
>> Yet another clip which reflects almost as badly on the cyclist as on the driver.
No. There's only one person being agressive, e***** and jeffing etc. And it's not Jeremy Vine.
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>
>>
>> No. There's only one person being agressive, e***** and jeffing etc. And it's not Jeremy
>> Vine.
Correct.
IME, the more aggressive people are in relation to the faults of others, the more likely it is that they are completely in the wrong themselves. No surprise at all to hear that the car wasn't taxed.
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It should be nationwide, pity we haven't got the traffic police to make it more than a PR job.
news.sky.com/story/motorists-face-prosecution-for-driving-too-close-to-cyclists-10579708
Maybe they could lift a few aggresive Lycra louts at the same time!
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 16 Sep 16 at 08:50
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What, you mean cyclists who overtake cars too closely?!
I cycled to Paris recently and the courtesy afforded to us by the French motorists was staggering! The very thought of us closing villages and main roads (Champs Elysee) for a bunch of French cyclists is farcical - but that's what they did for us.
(P.S. Shouldn't this be in Cyclists Corner?)
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I do hope they take account of how far the cyclists are from the pavement. Round here they often seem to expand across the whole of the lane forcing motorists into the opposite carriageway to pass them. Sometimes, not always...
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>> I do hope they take account of how far the cyclists are from the pavement. Round here they often seem to expand across the whole of the lane forcing motorists into the opposite carriageway to pass them. Sometimes, not always...
I should imagine they see that as a form of self protection. I used to do it as a motorcyclist after a car came so close that it took one of the panniers off my bike.
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I appreciate that, in fact I typed it in the first draft which I lost. But they sometimes force less patient motorists (of which there are a few!!) into a potentially dangerous manoeuvre.
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Yes, force. If the cyclist won't move over and let people by, then if someone is determined to pass them then they are forced.
I did say "less patient".
Like in some of those clips we see here.
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But they aren't forced are they? They are as you say impatient. Many drivers don't seem to understand that they don't have to overtake there and then. They can wait their time until a safe opportunity occurs. This applies to cycles, pedestrians, horses and other cars.
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I think it's only natural people want to make progress whilst driving. In am ideal world everyone would have all be very patient, but we aren't.
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You're splitting hairs, you know what I mean.
And anyway, yes, I stand by the word force in the context I used it. If a motorist is determined to overtake then he is obliged (= forced) to do so on the wrong side as he can't do anything else if the cyclist is taking up the lane, assuming the motorist doesn't want to mow down the cyclist.
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It's not splitting hairs. If you need o overtake you wait until it is safe to do so whether it be a bike or a car. Nobody is forced or obliged to overtake dangerously
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Whatever. I specifically said "if someone is determined to pass". I didn't say legally, sensibly or safely. I also didn't say it's what I'd do, before you put more words into my mouth!! :-)
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The thing is CG, if I see a motorbike coming up in my rear view mirror I pull near to the kerb, but keep my speed constant to allow him to pass safely.
I think we all would like to see, and indeed expect, cyclist to exercise the same consideration if they expect us to treat them equally as other road users.
It's simple really, just a matter of consideration for others and if you give a bit, you normally get a lot back.
I think the anti feeling we all have for cyclist is that they seem to want all the benefits and consideration of equality, without learning the basic consideration we all have for each other and 'coming down' from their pedestal and joining us properly.
Pat
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"Drivers who give cyclists less than a metre and a half of room as they overtake will face prosecution."
Can the same be implemented for cyclists who wiz past my door mirrors with only mm's to spare when I'm stuck in a queue of traffic?
No, I thought not.
Personally, I think drivers should be rewarded with free fuel for getting as close as they can to a cyclist without knocking them off while overtaking. Extra bonuses also given (such as free Mars Bars) if you are able to knock their helmet cam off at the same time ;)
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I don't disagree that all road users should act with consideration for others. I just see too many dangerous and impatient overtakes of cyclists. Even if a cyclist is a arguably further away from the kerb than is necessary there is absolutely no excuse for dangerous overtaking. Too many drivers feel that they must overtake rather than biding their time.
Just because another road user is acting in an inconsiderate manner does not provide an excuse for acting likewise.
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>>does not provide an excuse for acting likewise<<
No, but it does 'provoke' an excuse for acting likewise, and that is the root of the problem.
Pat
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I'm not sure I understand your point
I just try and drive in a safe manner and refuse to be provoked by the actions of others.
Saw an example of spectacularly bad driving today
Overladen pick up overtook motorcyclist on wrong side of hairpin bend narrowly missing hire car coming the other way. Motorcyclist was texting and of course without a helmet.
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As a keen cyclist, I am often a metre away from the kerb due to the basic fact that the inside of the road is where the damaged drains, potholed road surface, dirt, leaves and puddles usually are. Especially if on a busy bus route.
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And if I was following you Bobby you could stay there until I can pass safely giving you a wide clearance. Stuff those behind. And yes I will cross over the other side if safe to do so.
Sadly around here a lot think they can push past cyclists on the local roads when it's not safe.
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>> As a keen cyclist, I am often a metre away from the kerb due to
>> the basic fact that the inside of the road is where the damaged drains, potholed
>> road surface, dirt, leaves and puddles usually are. Especially if on a busy bus route.
Not only that but in the gutter you are more likely to:
* be overlooked by drivers joining from side roads
* have pedestrians step in front of you
* be 'left hooked' by a turning vehicle
Bobby's metre also gives him space to duck into in event of something unexpected.
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>> Motorcyclist was texting and of course without a helmet.
>>
>
You mean he was a Sikh motorcyclist?
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>> You mean he was a Sikh motorcyclist?
CGN's other posts suggest he is/was in Greece.
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If he crashed and injured himself, would he be a sick sikh?
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>> The thing is CG, if I see a motorbike coming up in my rear view
>> mirror I pull near to the kerb, but keep my speed constant to allow him
>> to pass safely.
>>
>> I think we all would like to see, and indeed expect, cyclist to exercise the
>> same consideration if they expect us to treat them equally as other road users.
I do the same for motorcycles when in the car.
I do not do it for cars or lorries when on a cycle. It isn't the same thing at all.
If I hear a car approaching from behind, I make sure I start with c. 5' between me and the kerb (this a generalisation for an average two lane road, obviously circumstances vary.)
If the 'oncoming' lane is clear, or the road is wide enough, the follower can pass me. As the vehicle starts to pass I move left a couple of feet into the space I created to try and avoid a close pass. It is amazing, baffling and terrifying just how many drivers will close pass a cyclist with 30, 40, or 50mph speed differential, even when they have the best part of a whole empty lane on their offside to play with.
For a cyclist, hugging the kerb is a deadly option. If I see it I know the cyclist is inexperienced. It induces people to pass when there is basically no room, as if it is fine to leave the cyclist in the metre or so that they normally have between them and the kerb/verge, while passing them at normal A or B road speed. Would they do that is it was their child or spouse on the bike? Perhaps they would, because they just don't see the problem.
My pal is a terrific driver in almost very sense, but does not and never has cycled himself, at least not while I have known him in the last 30 years. He has a blind spot with cyclists that is to my mind very typical. Coming up behind two riding abreast recently, on a bendy section of a narrow country road, he expostulated about lack of consideration, common sense, etc. I pointed out that he would (or should) not have passed a cyclist round the bends anyway, and that they would probably single out on the straight bit after the approaching bend, which was exactly what happened.
Leaving a 50/50 chance for someone to pass in tight place is to be avoided. That is why cyclists claim the space sometimes.
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>> I do the same for motorcycles when in the car.
>>
>> I do not do it for cars or lorries when on a cycle. It isn't
>> the same thing at all.
Top post Manatee. If I could give it ten green thumbs I would.
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I think my post has been taken largely out of context.
Let me ask one question of the cyclist.
You're on a rural road with ample room for two cars to pass each other but not much more.
There are double white lines due to almost 2 miles of winding blind bends.
Does it ever occur to you to just put one foot down and wave the inevitable queue of cars and lorries to pass?
I've never known a cyclist to do that, and I think they should in the interest of their own, and everyone else's safety.
Pat
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>>Does it ever occur to you to just put one foot down and wave the inevitable queue of cars and lorries to pass?
I'm sure you're not wilfully being untruthful but I think you must have forgotten the ones who got out of your way, or assumed they'd stopped for a rest or a look at the scenery.
How often have you followed a cyclist for 2 miles? Not as often as you have followed a tractor I imagine.
I've certainly stopped and got out of the way, I don't like motors up my chuff apart from anything else, but I can't say those circs have arisen very often.
More usually for me it's a single track lane near here, about a mile and a half long and it's one car, so I duck into a gateway. I don't think I'm unique.
I have far more encounters as the driver than the cyclist. I rarely see one that really irritates me. Most are clearly just trying to keep themselves safe - they sometimes wave me past when they can see the way is clear before I do, or raise a hand in acknowledgement that I have followed at a reasonable distance and given them space.
Not everybody appreciates or even notices the consideration of course but it leaves me feeling happier that I am not adding unnecessarily to somebody's stress or risk.
We are up to our necks in roadies round here, especially since the post-2012 cycling explosion. Some of them are a bit dour, but I try and see it as part of the price of living in a nice place.
I can understand that it is more frustrating when you have to keep to a schedule that is not of your own making.
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>> How often have you followed a cyclist for 2 miles?
Nearly every morning if I don't leave for work early enough. There is a 2 wheeled menace who holds everyone up, and can add up to 15 mins onto my 7 mile trip to work. Everyone who uses the same route to work complains about him. He's not a very fast cyclist either. He'll pedal for a short distance, then freewheel, before pedalling again.
Granted it's not entirely his fault (mostly, but not entirely). You also get the timid motorist who is afraid to overtake him. The same sort of timid motorist who comes to a complete stop at a roundabout and then looks to see if anything is coming, rather than approaching and looking at the same time.
Suffice to say, I am not a fan of cyclists. In fact, I loathe them!
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 20 Sep 16 at 10:41
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>> Granted it's not entirely his fault (mostly, but not entirely).
I certainly wouldn't want to be him if he is literally holding up 2 miles of traffic.
Maybe you could offer him a lift so he wouldn't have to cycle to work ;)
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>> Maybe you could offer him a lift so he wouldn't have to cycle to work
No idea where he works, but it's not on the business park that I'm on. If he did work here, he'd have been strung up by now ;)
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>>I am not a fan of cyclists. In fact I loathe them!...
I don't loathe anyone really, except serious criminals of course, oh and fat people I suppose. Fat people take up so much room on pavements, in shops, on public transport, they're slow moving, often smell of sweat and are an unnecessary burden on the NHS. They take more time off work than normal sized people, take up more time in doctors surgeries and are unpleasant to look at in the main.
However, I do realise that I am being grossly unfair and that they have just as much right to be wherever they want to be as everyone else, in fact I should really be ashamed of my prejudice against them just because they're different to me...
I mean that would be disgusting wouldn't it, loathing someone just and only because they were in my mind anyway, unnecessarily in my way? I should be ashamed of myself. In fact I apologise unreservedly...
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Just for you then, Runfer.
Fair warning - very strong language.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WOjjJS4Be4
Last edited by: Crankcase on Tue 20 Sep 16 at 15:16
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And of course that was cringeworthy, awful in fact. Now imagine that someone was perfectly legitimately using a road and suffered a similar form of ( actual rather than staged ) abuse/hatred because they were doing so on a bicycle. Imagine if someone publicly admitted that they "loathed" people who rode bicycles...
Oh wait...
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>> I don't loathe anyone really, except fat people I suppose.
So you're a Fattist then?
>> Fat people take up so much room on pavements,
Some cyclists take up far too much room on roads. In some places they're given their own cycle path, but still insist on clogging up our roads instead.
>> in shops, on public transport, they're slow moving,
Some cyclists are slow moving on roads too.
>> often smell of sweat
As do cyclists. Fresh sweat doesn't smell though. Stale sweat that's a day or two old smells. That's down to lack of hygiene. Anyone can smell of sweat, fat or thin. If they wash regularly then they shouldn't smell.
>> and are an unnecessary burden on the NHS.
As are cyclists who get run over.
>> They take more time off work than normal sized people, take up more time in
>> doctors surgeries
I'll admit, I'm overweight. I have however only taken 3 days off work sick since 2011, so your statement overweight people take more time off work isn't necessarily true. I go to the doctor's once every 6 months for a diabetes blood test, and I see one of the health care assistants, so I don't burden the nurses or doctors. I can't remember the last time I went there for anything else, so again fat people taking up more time in doctors surgeries isn't necessarily true either.
>> and are unpleasant to look at in the main.
That's true, I am no oil painting. However, fat people can lose weight and look more appealing. Ugly people remain ugly no matter what size they are.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 20 Sep 16 at 21:36
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I take it you don't do irony?
;-)
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I try not to do any household chores.
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Oh ok, just that if you've heard any whooshing noises recently, don't worry about it ! ;-)
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Have you seen a Fenny cyclist?
They are about 127 years old, pedals turn one revolution per minute, have a basket on the front and a little trailer towing behind full of veg from the allotment and are usually deaf:)
.....and not all the roads are straight either!
Pat
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>> And anyway, yes, I stand by the word force in the context I used it.
>> If a motorist is determined to overtake then he is obliged (= forced) to do
>> so on the wrong side as he can't do anything else if the cyclist is
>> taking up the lane, assuming the motorist doesn't want to mow down the cyclist.
So if an impatient motorist goes round the wrong side of a traffic island it's the island that's forcing him right?
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Jeez...
Strictly by what I thought I'd said, I think that it is forcing but for the sake of harmony I'll accept it isn't.
(In my mind I said "if the motorist is going to overtake the cyclist at a particular time come what may, and the cyclist is taking up the lane, then the motorist will go on the other side of the road". Nothing to do with whether that is right, moral, legal, sensible, safe etc etc. No blame intended on the cyclist. Just stating a fact. Obviously I've lost the ability to express myself properly. I try not to write too pedantically but if that's what's needed... :-) )
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There is a rule, I think, that if a slow moving road user finds itself at the head of a queue of other traffic that (legally) wants to go faster, he should pull over at the first suitable safe place to allow the others to pass.
Everyone apart from the guilty expects that of tractors, JCBs, caravans, horses, pedestrians - surely it should apply to cyclists too?
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As with most things in life, road use is ( or should be ) about empathy, no matter how you are propelling yourself at the time. A willingness to see the situation through others eyes as well as your own, and acting accordingly.
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Quite right R D'H. Bide your time, when the right moment comes just do it, very briskly, then get back out of the way. Don't be hasty or impulsive. Try to be courteous.
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>> As with most things in life, road use is ( or should be ) about
>> empathy, no matter how you are propelling yourself at the time. A willingness to see
>> the situation through others eyes as well as your own, and acting accordingly.
>>
Quite right. If only more people drove (or lived) like this.
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Indeed Boxterboy, it is sadly the case that many still prefer to refer to those who they see as other than their current tribe, as "them" when in fact we are all "us" in the end. Temporary and transient tenants of a spinning rock who would do well to try harder to rub along with each other despite mainly trivial differences.
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I don't understand all this unnecessary aggravation against cyclist.
Maybe because I grew up with cycling as a youngster,cycled to school everyday and living with a different culture regarding cycling.
Give them space and if you can't get by stay behind them for the few extra minutes in your so called busy lives driving your car.
I cycled for ten years in my younger days to work I survived just.>:)
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 20 Sep 16 at 10:43
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>> I don't understand all this unnecessary aggravation against cyclists.
Me too Dutchie. The thing is if you go out looking to confirm your prejudices in any walk of life you will find examples to support your views and you will ignore any evidence to the contrary. At the end of the day being held up for a minute or two in order to pass a cyclist safely hardly matters in the overall scheme of things. A bit of patience is all it takes. If you haven't got patience you shouldn't be driving a vehicle.
And I haven't ridden a bike for 30 years
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This young man unicycled past LIDL recently when I was at the checkout. I had no idea he could do this kind of thing:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTx_Unpz_d8
He recently won a bronze medal in one discipline at the world championships in Spain.
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FORS sign ban. - Pat
