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As the title suggests, a place to discuss Formula One, and all other types of motorsport (excluding MotoGP, which has a section of its own).
PLEASE NOTE:-
To try and maintain some kind of logical order of discussion, if you start a new subject then reply to this post and remember to change the default subject header.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 27 Aug 16 at 17:16
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The qualifying idea looks interesting.
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Bernie Ecclestone is reported to have said that Formula 1 has become boring to watch. Which reminded me of Gerald Ratner's prawn sandwich moment. He's right, but he shouldn't say it out loud.
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Maybe he should.It used to be exciting to watch.
My favorite commentator was James Hunt dry sense of humor,never over the top.
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They all start with a full tank.With the fuel changes there use to be some excitement.Fuel tactics was important.
Changing the tyres can keep you awake how long it takes by the fastest team.
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>>With the fuel changes there use to be some excitement.
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Especially when a car caught fire.
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I mean the upcoming F1 season which could be another McLaren Mercedes silverwash.
Too soon to see the shape of the season, I hope. Ferrari is always there, and these energy drink cars have cheery pilots, so we can hope for the best.
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After seeing the qualifying result I decided not to bother with this race and probably the rest of the season. Mercedes versus Mercedes with the commentators feigning excitement over the thrilling battle for tenth place doesn't do it for me.
BTW, no wonder you can never find your posts, AC. This should be in the F1 and motorsports thread which has been running for the last fifty or sixty years.
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>> This should be in the F1 and motorsports thread which has been running for the last fifty or sixty years.
Oh damn, sorry.
Only move it if you can be bothered, Webbenmeister.
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Oh do leave him alone, I rather like people who aren't conventional or predictable, it's called Car 4 "Play" remember.
Not everything in life has to be in a little box.
Keep surprising us AC, some of us love it!
;-)
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:-).....Ro'R has a point...some poor dab has to keep looking for AC's missing posts.....(tongue in cheek by the way) :-)........x 1000
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I should perhaps add that my post was TiC too. I wasn't having a dig at poor old AC, as I'm sure he understood.
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After the total fiasco of practice the race result seems familiar to last season.
C4 trying a bit too hard ?
www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/mar/20/channel-4-f1-melbourne-qualifying
With the loooong commercial breaks, in future I will be recording the recording.
Good job Alonso did not need a Halo. It looks like the kitty litter caused the major part of his accident and flung him to the barrier.
No mention of the louder exhausts so I assume they had no real impact.
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>> After the total fiasco of practice
Qualifying?
Now abandoned for the rest of the season and they will revert to the old system.
Watched it on recording of recorded highlights. There were a lot of adverts to skip through.
When I saw Alonso's car I thought he was a goner, but it had actually been smashed about, mainly by rolling and bouncing, before it hit the barrier that stopped it. An accident, but self-inflicted more or less as he had clipped the back of Gutiérrez and become airborne.
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How they hadn't figured the new qualifying format was stupid I have no idea. I suspect the top 2 or 3 drivers could have tried a little harder/longer but finishing early got their point across.
But in the previous/original system, until you missed out on the next stage there was always a chance. You wouldn't get a no-hoper in a poor car through to Q2 let alone Q1. But Kvyat went out in Q1.
When I saw Alonso's car I thought it looked pretty bad but didn't think he'd be in too much bother. Saw him out of it and then saw the car again. He's a lucky chap today.
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>>An accident, but self-inflicted more or less as he had clipped the back of Gutiérrez and become airborne.
Clipping the back of another car was the initial cause but the kitty litter IIRC is designed to slow a car when it is driven/projected into it nose or tail first. Alons's seemed to go sideways and hitting the "safety feature" seemed to stort it rolling.
The main thing is he escaped OK.
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I watched the qualifying. And then decided that I wasn't going to bother watching F1 this year. Yes, I know that they're reverting to the old ways, but it highlighted to me that I'd had enough.
And that's after 30+ years of watching every race, including travelling to SIlverstone a number of times.
I might go to watch some bike racing this year instead.
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I managed to stay awake for all of the CH4 highlights.
Must've been more interesting than last year!
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Much prefer Suzi Perry over Steve Jones.
Better on the eye too.
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She is voicing an advert on Classic FM, can't see her though. :-(
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Turned on Sky F1 about 20 mins from the end to find nothing happening. This carried on until one multimillionaire drew close to another multimillionaire but slid off. Another multimillionaire who was leading the whole race was shown once, just as he crossed the finishing line.
These guys are doing something that is dangerous, skillful and courageous, but too often comes across on screen as dull with only the occasional piece of action.
Meanwhile the commentators were raving about the fantastic race as if they were devotees of Kim Jong-in and he'd declared it a national sport.
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Drivers warn success of sport could be jeopardised
Formula 1 drivers have demanded change at the top of the sport, saying its decision-making process is "obsolete and ill-structured".
Grand Prix Drivers' Association (GPDA) directors Jenson Button, Sebastian Vettel and Alex Wurz have written a letter on behalf of the drivers.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/35882820
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Apart from the British GP, you'll need to subscribe to sky from 2019. I won't be bothering
www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/mar/23/sky-buys-exclusive-rights-to-all-formula-one
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By 2019 they'll be driverless anyway.
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Unless,something drastic happens to liven it up I doubt that there will be anyone left watching it by 2019 !
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I've gone form the bloke who used to get up at 5:00am to watch it live from Japan, to Meah "who cares"
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Even after the winter off, I haven't yet bothered watching the weekend's race. I think that's me done, after 30 years.
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I can't work out how Bernie hasn't figured out that the audience is dwindling faster than the money from sky is going up.
The sponsors are bound to remind him sooner or later.
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I would hope that some sort of highlights programme would continue on free to air TV, a la Match of the Day. Over the last couple of years I have enjoyed the highlight show more than the live races.
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One thing that has made F1 too predictable and boring is reliability. And the things are so reliable they restrict the number of engines allowed per season and the power outputs.
I say let them develop in season and allow them to get whatever they can out of the power units. I suppose one aspect of unreliable in the past was lower precision when making components.
F1 these days can be very boring.
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>> I can't work out how Bernie hasn't figured out that the audience is dwindling faster
>> than the money from sky is going up.
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probably going gaga he must be a hundred years old, he certainly looks it.
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I see Sky sports costs £330 a year. And people resent paying £145.50 for the BBC.
Sky won't see a bean from me.
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>> Sky won't see a bean from me.
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Couldn't do without it.
It's the choice that has us hooked... and 'catch up' is v handy.
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>> I won't be bothering
Me neither.
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Haven't you all been saying this every year for the past few years? :-)
The last race was OK to good in my book, for an F1 race. The quallies was a bit odd but I'd have probably got used to it. It seemed to have pretty much the same outcome as the old style to me. The Ch4 presentation was OK except the ads - I quite liked the team they had doing it. The race had its moments. There is much better racing around but unfortunately most of it doesn't make it to the small screen mainstream channels. So it'll do for me, for another year (tho I won't be getting obsessive about watching it!!)
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>> Haven't you all been saying this every year for the past few years? :-)
Nope, not me.
However, I certainly won't be paying to watch it in the future though.
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Max Emillia Verstappen sounds like a Roman Emperor.Good luck to the kid he has that certain arrogance and confidence to make it far in F1.
Mistakes by Mercedes but there you go Max took his change and looked after the car and tyres.
Great achievement for a 18 year youngster.
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Not Dutch by any chance is he? He certainly had a lot of luck on his side with the two fastest cars out on the first lap. A determined and skilled young man, given the right car he could do well.
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Cracking race... and well done Max Verstappen
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My verdict: racing incident...
Hamilton sniffed a gap, with good momentum off the corner.. whilst Rosberg tried to close the gap, but was on the wrong engine setting and wasn't quick enough.
So, slight mistake by Rosberg and Hamilton being quite aggressive.
Slightly Rosberg's fault... but not enough to declare more than racing incident...as Hamilton has part to play.
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Hamilton to Rosberg "*****&&&^^^%%%%$$)()() "
Rosberg to Hamilton "That'll larn you"
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I thought it was going to be a processional bore, but it turned out quite interesting in the event.
Team tactics, and team orders, caused some drivers great irritation.
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Ricciardo was hard done by... c'est la vie.
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Feel a bit sorry for Verstappen, after getting promotion he stuffed two cars over the weekend. Wonder if they'll take it out of his pay rise?
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Toyota blew it with 3 laps to go handing the Porsche #2 car their 18th win, Audi still using diesel power came in 3 & 4.
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Le Mans is on my bucket list of "stuff to do before it's too late" not sure why I've not done it before.
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Funny but it doesn't appeal to me. I think my days of watching any Motorsport live are over. Previously I attended several British GPs, regularly marshalled on Mintex Rally, followed the RAC rally in Nov over 3 days, and the Scottish in June. Went to the Manx Rally every Sept for a few years.
Nowadays I'd rather just go off for a few days backpacking with a friend, even if it's only the Forest of Bowland or a remote route in the Lakes.
Or better still the Sierra Nevada....I definitely appreciate 'nature made' these days far more than 'man made' and can quite happily spend several hours contemplating a remote mountain lake and the odd swim rather than the noise & buzz of a Motorsport event.
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>> I'd rather just go off for a few days backpacking
Its a funny thing. I really loved touring car and all that stuff. I used to spend hours involved in RAC rallies.
But I agree, the back country stuff, especially late at night or early morning, is just so rewarding.
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Do it, but not when 24hLeMan is on.
The museum is amazing, the cars are unbelievable and the track, well you'd need something like a Caterham or Westfield to appreciate it if you didn't have something quick like two wheels.
I've been away for some time, not a big contributor here but recent developments have made me think I really do not want to be here.
Self appointed internet Police is a scary development.
Wish you all the best and maybe see some of you around but this latest stuff is not for me.
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Then buenas noches amigo gmac
I know what you mean
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>> Then buenas noches amigo gmac
>> I know what you mean
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I don't..can you explain, please?
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>> >> Then buenas noches amigo gmac
>> >> I know what you mean
>> >>
>> I don't..can you explain, please?
Glad somebody said that and pleased it was you rather than one of my fellow 'do gooders' :-P
PLenty of robust debate here but, barring removal of the odd truly offensive post, I've seen no evidence of a subset of self appointed censors.
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>>Do it, but not when 24hLeMan is on.
If you're still reading....
But surely even though I am sure it is packed and prices doubles, the atmosphere makes it worthwhile?
I fancy it, but I'd probably make a point of going when the 24h is on. Worrying to think I might be that wrong.
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>> Wish you all the best and maybe see some of you around but this latest stuff is not for me.
Everybody except me seems to know who this poster is.
When I hover over their username .... (four dots) nothing happens. With everyone else I get their posting history if I click on the name.
Would anyone like to explain to me what it's all about?
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jun 16 at 10:18
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>> Would anyone like to explain to me what it's all about?
He asked for his account and any other details to be deleted.
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>> >> Would anyone like to explain to me what it's all about?
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>> He asked for his account and any other details to be deleted.
So, it's a flounce?
Are we allowed to know who has flounced?
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>> So, it's a flounce?
No, he asked to have all his details removed following some of the antics in the flooding thread.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jun 16 at 12:53
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So yes, its a flounce.
Because he could have quietly done it himsel .
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>> Because he could have quietly done it himsel .
Granted, he could have changed his email address and username himself, but he asked for ALL his details to be removed from the system. If he'd have done it himself, then he would have still been on the system in some capacity or other.
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>> No, he asked to have all his details removed following some of the antics in
>> the flooding thread.
Thanks for the clarification there. My initial thought was that it was a compliant over an issue in the In/Out thread or some other matter of politics.
The real reason makes more sense.
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I'm glad he saw sense to have his details removed after suggesting he'd offload a flood damaged car to an unsuspecting buyer. To have his full name and rough location in his profile was foolish in the least if he was going to do what he suggested.
He could have got himself in a bit of bother had he done what he says he would.
e.g. someone has an iffy car they have just bought and come to a motoring website for advice. But find instead someone who was selling the car on after it was in 12 inches of flood water.
I still think he's wrong to drive around in it - that water was not clean and will have been full of bacteria and all sorts.
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>> I'm glad he saw sense to have his details removed after suggesting he'd offload a
>> flood damaged car to an unsuspecting buyer.
You are confused.
GMAC asked to have his details removed after posting that he didn't really post much and didn't want to post anymore.
The flooded car man has not commented one way or another.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 20 Jun 16 at 13:15
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I assumed it was him - wrong to assume and all that.
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'Four dots' was previously gmac, his post indicates he's leaving. Previous flouncers (eg Gordon Bennet, 'punctuated' themselves but their profile remained.
Whether,in this case, the four dots and absence of a profile are his work or those of the mods is not clear.
EDIT - Vx has explained.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 20 Jun 16 at 10:22
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Fair do to Neel Jani.
He's a damn good driver, and has always been on the fringes - when compared to F1.
A1GP champion, and now Le Mans top boy.
Interviewed him a few years back at the RedBull event in Cape Town and he was a hell of a nice chap, and we had a good laugh and chatted cars and Swiss racing for ages.
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I remember seeing the 919 and Audi R18 e-tron at last years GFoS (hopefully they will be there this week) and was amazed at what was inside them, and the crazy noise they made when warming up, the ultra high whine of the battery regeneration system was cool.
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Although sometimes F1 can be dull, the new street circuit at Baku threw up some surprises. No safety car throughout the race, either virtual or the real thing made an appearance. Considering how tight a circuit that was, as well as high speeds in places it was a miracle no one went off.
And then there was Hamilton having a pit conversation at flat out speeds, trying to negotiate some tight and twisty corners with metal barriers millimetres from his wheels while also trying to make adjustments to his steering wheel because of an incorrect setting. Some people cannot even change the radio station on their stereos without causing a drama.
And the only naughty word to come out of Hamilton's mouth was "freaking". Imagine if it was Kimi Raikkonen or Sebastian Vettel. They were throwing toys out the pram, cursing and swearing all over the radio back to the pits just because other drivers wouldn't get out of their way.
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I was surprised there was no safety car - I think some of the teams had planned for one too with their strategy.
Hamilton's conversation with his pit had me wondering what information they managed to pass on in coded form. He knows they cannot tell him what was wrong and what he should change. And yet he asked.... and then sorted it. :-)
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You knew it was going to end in tears for either Rosberg or Hamilton once they started tussling for the lead on the final lap of the race. Just like other German racing drivers, Rosberg fought dirty, but came worse off. He got off lightly with a 10 second penalty (which didn't affect his final position of coming 4th) and two licence penalty points on his licence (allowed 12 in a season).
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Hamilton forced his initial error and it turns out Hamilton was on the right tyre to push on. Rosberg was definitely in the wrong - just glad it was him that damaged his own car.
If the rules say he should have stopped the car because it was dangerous, he should have been disqualified. The points on the licence was a bit of a light punishment.
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Rosberg took an unnecessarily wide line round the last proper corner forcing Hamilton onto the runoff. It was very obvious, but our boy enjoys a challenge...
Thousands of quid's worth of fibreglass shards all over the road cutting up thousands of quid's worth of rubber. It isn't every GP that ends in a shower of sparks.
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>> It isn't every GP that ends in a shower of sparks.
Or loads of boos from the race fans towards the winner, which were undeserved IMHO.
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>> >> It isn't every GP that ends in a shower of sparks.
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>> Or loads of boos from the race fans towards the winner, which were undeserved IMHO.
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I understand that the Austrian commentary blamed LH and that was reason for the booing response.
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>> If the rules say he should have stopped the car because it was dangerous, he
>> should have been disqualified. The points on the licence was a bit of a light
>> punishment.
Not every infraction carries a penalty of disqualification.
There wasn't a driver in that race who wouldn't have carried on, whistling and pretending he didn't know his car was shedding pieces, to get it over the line for whatever points he could salvage.
That was what Rosberg got the points for. He got only a 10 second penalty (which made no difference) for the collision, which seemed lenient to me.
www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2016/7/rosberg-penalised--stays-fourth--after-hamilton-clash.html
Rosberg is very very fast but he does not IMO have Hamilton's finesse in those situations.
At best he was thinking of the twice that Hamilton has run him out of road on the exit of corners, before he clumsily urinated on his own chips in a failed payback attempt; at worst, he deliberately tried to 'take out' Hamilton, knowing that for neither to finish would have been better for him than for Hamilton to finish ahead.
The reason for the stewards' leniency was probably that Rosberg had already lost out as a result of his action.
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>> should have stopped the car because it was dangerous
The IT in that sentence was the car which was dangerous.
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Rosberg was trying a dirty trick to keep his position but it backfired on him. Got what he deserved. I bet Toto had a few choice words for him afterwards - he's previously spoken strongly about them fighting each other.
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Well done Lewis, he gets more bling by the week (see the gold chains during yesterday's interview?) but at least he is a bit of a character, he's good with the press and especially good with the fans.
Channel 4 coverage is impressive and had a great team for Silverstone (well , except Eddie!). Coulthard & Webber do a great job, Chandhok is a bit technical and needs to brush up his presentation skills but was very enjoyable, and Suzie Wolff has been real catch. Add her old man (Toto) who's only popped up on the screens relatively recently as a likeable team boss (along with Christian Horner) and the whole shebang was really quiet watchable - I mean the pre-race chatter as much as the race itself.
Silverstone is a great circuit and there was some good racing yesterday. It's a shame they had to start the race under the safety car but when you saw the conditions, and the difficulty the drivers had keeping their cars on track even at slow speeds, it was a good decision. I was surprised that Mercedes fell foul of the radio rules, I suppose they thought it was safety info they were giving him and didn't think twice about it, but the commentators were straight onto it.
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>> I was surprised that Mercedes fell foul of the
>> radio rules, I suppose they thought it was safety info they were giving him and
>> didn't think twice about it, but the commentators were straight onto it.
>>
I caught bits of that. What happened?
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>> I was surprised that Mercedes fell foul of the radio rules
I wasn't, and he was lucky to only escape with a slap on the wrists. In effect, the team helped him limp the car home.
Hamilton had a problem with some settings a couple of races ago and was told to leave things alone as the team couldn't help him, but he eventually figured out what was wrong and corrected it himself.
Rosberg's gearbox was playing up in 7th gear. Something he could have also worked out for himself.
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What a mess.
Rosberg got a slap on the wrist so other teams will exploit things from now on.
The car went wrong so that is life.
Try another cog in the box or if that fails park it.
If the report in the Wail is correct ( Yes I know its the Wail)
Headlines like "Rosberg pays the price for gear fiasco."
IMO he got fantastic value for what happened.He got some points when IMO he should have been left to use his brains and probably got zero points.
" The gearbox would have failed" protested Rosberg " It was a very critical problem because I was about to stop on track. I needed to fix it"
I always understood that if a car failed it stopped so get a lift back to the pits.
You cannot expect a virtual AA man to sort your problem out over the radio.
What a joke.
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His gearbox was giving up and the pits told him not to use 7th, as that was seen as providing assistance. From www.motorsport.com/f1/news/radio-messages-in-full-rosberg-and-engineer-on-his-gearbox-issue-797513/
Rosberg: “Gearbox problem.â€
Engineer: “Driver default 1-0-1, chassis default 0-1, chassis default 0-1.â€
Engineer: “Avoid seventh gear, Nico, avoid seventh gear.â€
Rosberg: “What does that mean, I have to shift through it?â€
Engineer: “Affirm Nico, you need to shift through it. Affirm, you need to shift through it.â€
Last edited by: smokie on Mon 11 Jul 16 at 10:26
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Here is a fuller description of the incident along with what is and isn't allowed. www.racecar-engineering.com/blogs/rosberg-radio-rule-breach-explained/#
I'm not quite clear what Henry's rant is about but I get that he's not a Rosberg fan :-)
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Not a big follower of F1, but i don't have any issues with what happened its a team for a reason. Plus there's a whole list of things that they can say to assist and make life easier for the driver.
I suppose it keeps someone in a job though.
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>> You cannot expect a virtual AA man to sort your problem out over the radio.
I know a man who can though
www.vauxhall.co.uk/onstar/index.html#VehicleDiagnostic
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>> I know a man who can though
>>
>> www.vauxhall.co.uk/onstar/index.html#VehicleDiagnostic
>>
Does that mean that one has to use a Vauxhall in order to avail onesself of this this service?
In that case......
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...maybe Nico's punishment should be to drive one in the next race.......
That should cure him...
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Lots of discussion on this before yesterday's Hungarian quallies. They have changed the game in that they have now told the teams what they can say, rather than what they can't, in an effort to clarify. However the team principals they spoke to, along with the presenting team, seemed unanimously against, saying it is not good for the fans.
It was a good qualifying session, rain and it's consequences played a big part early on. I'm looking forward to the race.
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>> Lots of discussion ... it is not good for the fans.
>>
How so?
I wish to see a race, where the best drivers do well, based on their ability, instinct and awareness.
NOT some scripted parade.
What other sport has a 'coach' in constant contact with the players?
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Football was the example they gave. :-)
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>> Football was the example they gave. :-)
>>
Yep, you have a game plan, but there's a big difference between having a coach gesticulating from the sideline, and having a coach talking in your ear, telling you what to do, and when.
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There's also a big difference between punting round a ball to people you can see, maybe even having not much to do for the odd few minutes (and when there is something to do, taking a short lie down instead), and being in sole control of a potentially lethal 180+mph skateboard being driven to it's limit for 90 minutes, sometimes in adverse weather conditions, while not being able to see very well where you are going, let alone what your competition is up to and with a whole raft of complex technology to cope with as well as all that.
But each to his own... :-)
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"They have changed the game in that they have now told the teams what they can say, rather than what they can't, in an effort to clarify."
I can see the logic in this, smokie.
To have somebody stage-manage the drive is bad, IMHO. To give 'legit' information is another thing altogether.
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Do I care any more?
Cars too complicated for a guy to drive so lets have a team help him.
All this is to advance the development of road cars?
When can I buy the latest greatest tyres that wear out early ?:-)
Next season I might be able to watch a highly edited hour of the circus or maybe give it a miss.
I do hope the Tour de France continues on ITV4 or is Sky about to grab that too?
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I doubt anyone cares that you don't care Henry, but even though you don't like it, it is still the pinnacle of motor sport, which has a huge following throughout the world.
Please, if you don't like it, don't feel obliged to watch it just so you can moan about it, just do something you enjoy instead. :-)
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We already have a situation in which it is difficult to tell who is "winning" - drivers have to manage both total fuel used and maximum flow rate, tyre wear and temperature, brake wear and temperature, and engine life.
The more information that we hear passed between driver and team, the more interesting it is. And if it means that the team can give the driver information that will help him get the best speed from the car, we will have better racing.
The idea that the team can tell the driver how to drive is a bit far fetched. They could for example tell the driver that he is losing time by braking 20 yards sooner than his team mate, not getting on the throttle as early, or lifting unnecessarily but the driver still has it to do and that requires skill and risk taking.
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Did anyone else find today's race a tiny bit boring? Just a tiny bit... when the qualifying leaders run away in front it can hardly be otherwise.
I know, I know, Ferrari made a showing and the smiling Aussie Red Bull chap did too. Good to see them scowling (Ferrari) and smiling on or near the podium.
Perhaps all Formula 1 racing is a tiny bit boring. But it's the pinnacle of motor racing so one has to watch it, hmmmm?
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>> Perhaps all Formula 1 racing is a tiny bit boring. But it's the pinnacle of motor racing so one has to watch it, hmmmm?
Errm, no, one doesn't. It's boring, full stop.
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It comes to something when the highlights are boring.
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Technically there are no highlights:)
On the radio business, Button was given a drive through because of a discussion on brake problems. The pedal was on the floor. Before telling him how to fix it, the team diagnosed lack of hydraulic pressure and told him not to change gear (the brakes and gearbox both use the hydraulic system).
Given that comms are allowed for necessary safety issues, the stewards don't appear to have followed their own rules.
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On the radio business, Button was given a drive through because of a discussion on brake problems. The pedal was on the floor. Before telling him how to fix it, the team diagnosed lack of hydraulic pressure and told him not to change gear (the brakes and gearbox both use the hydraulic system).
Given that comms are allowed for necessary safety issues, the stewards don't appear to have followed their own rules.
Pretty well what Button said later...
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I have long given up following it..
Makes watching paint dry more exciting.
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New qualifying rules ? - henry k
