Continuing discussion.
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Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 28 Jan 16 at 01:12
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They haven't a pot to pee in, it's a bit silly to expect too much from them.
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And they've no cause to love EU officialdom.
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How would any other EU country police a sea border that is a couple of miles from Turkey with dozens of boats coming across at times (fewer now it's winter). Are we suggesting they should shoot at the refugees?
Shouldn't Turkey be dealing with the refugees as the first 'safe' place they get to? I know there's millions there already and now they're starting to travel into Europe.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 27 Jan 16 at 21:36
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>> How would any other EU country police a sea border that is a couple of
>> miles from Turkey with dozens of boats coming across at times (fewer now it's winter).
A worthwhile response to those who see Australia as the model for dealing with illegals. Isolation limits the numbers who can try and gives them the opportunity to intercept 'boat people' on the high seas so they never get near the mainland.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 28 Jan 16 at 08:33
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The Eurocrats in Brussels and (in Strasbourg, often and at great cost) have not forgiven Greece for its abortive resistance to their hegemony.
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>> The Eurocrats in Brussels and (in Strasbourg, often and at great cost) have not forgiven
>> Greece for its abortive resistance to their hegemony.
>>
If Greece left the EU, they could set their drachma at a rate that encouraged tourism which could be a huge bonus to their economy..and.. no migrants wishing to go to richer EU countries would find it that simple going via Greece.
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>> If Greece left the EU, they could set their drachma at a rate that encouraged
>> tourism which could be a huge bonus to their economy..and.. no migrants wishing to go
>> to richer EU countries would find it that simple going via Greece.
>>
Wow. It's that easy. You just "set" a rate for your currency against others and watch the ££££ roll in and the brown people run/float away. Genius. I wonder why nobody's worked that out and done it already.
Write to:
Alex Tsipras
Big building on Syntagma Square
Athens
Greece.
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Hang on a minute, didn't the Soviet Union used to "set" it's currency against others? That worked. Glad to see you shuffling over to the left there, WP.
Is there any history of an independent Greek currency suffering runaway inflation I wonder? How many million Drachma was it to the pound?
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China makes a good job of it, works well for them.
Of course you do need to make a small effort to make it work, with a resulting slight dent in human rights, but hey.
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>> Hang on a minute, didn't the Soviet Union used to "set" it's currency against others?
>> That worked. Glad to see you shuffling over to the left there, WP.
The Soviet Union had a closed control economy, a million miles from a competitive level of productivity and with very low living standards. I don't suppose the Greeks want that.
Pre-glasnost, the US's assumption was that the Soviet Union spent <=50% of GDP on 'defence'. With more information, that estimate was later revised to 75%. They were incredibly inefficient. It was economics that 'won' the cold war.
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Yes, M, I know. It was a t-i-c comment aimed at WP's idea that Greece could "set" a new currency to any level it saw fit - as you rightly say this couldn't be done outside of a Command Economy structure.
I see the Cold War as not having been won - more having been lost. A whiff of openness and freedom in the USSR and it was over. I was there when it happened.
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>> Yes, M, I know. It was a t-i-c comment aimed at WP's idea that Greece
>> could "set" a new currency to any level it saw fit -
You've taken that the wrong way and I could have worded it better... I mean have the rate fluctuate and move to what it needs to be, rather than have politicians 'set 'it.
At the moment the Euro restricts them, which is why I think they would be better off outside it (in the long term).
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If I remember rightly, fluctuation wasn't ever the greatest thing for the old Greek currency either. Fires and frying pans.
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If the Greeks had a floating exchange rate, all their loans in euros would be impossible to repay.
Oh, they are already...
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>> The Eurocrats in Brussels and (in Strasbourg, often and at great cost) have not forgiven
>> Greece for its abortive resistance to their hegemony.
The Greeks have not forgiven Germany for WW2, as I'm sure you haven't. Buy hey.
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It must be horrible for the after the war born Germans to forever hear about the war.
We should never forget I know.I have worked with people with concentration camps tattoo numbers on their arms.They told me the story of suffering.
But we have to move on,we can look at our own history and none of us in Europe are without quilt.
I can't look anymore at the television news seeing small children suffer like they do with this refugee crisis.I don't often speak for the Germans but maybe due to feelings of guilt from the past they have set a example for us all.
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>> none of
>> us in Europe are without quilt.
Except UKIP I'd imagine. Don't hold with those continental quilts, they stick to those good old fashioned British scratchy blankets.
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I think they were a Norwegian invention. Typical they give us their bags of goose feathers and then leave the EU leaving us to sweat it out.
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>> none of
>> us in Europe are without quilt.
<< Except UKIP I'd imagine. Don't hold with those continental quilts, they stick to those good old fashioned British scratchy blankets.
Doesn't this site have a guideline on textual perversion?
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35478961
( the first few seconds is just a taster of the scale and numbers)
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We saw a lot of the Lesvos side of things last year, first hand.
How to stop anyone crossing to Greece come the calmer seas... stop selling rubber dinghy's to Turkish people smugglers for starters. I'd already seen the fake life vests they sell from shops in Turkey.
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..and is a wake-up for anyone experiencing compassion fatigue.
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But what happens to those refugees/economic migrants (my italicised input)? After five years living in an EU state, they get the right to travel and work freely anywhere in the EU. Including Britain. By way of context, even before the Turkish deal is done, Germany is expecting to take in something like 3.6 million extra migrants by the end of the decade.
Anyone voting on Britain’s EU membership should be aware of these facts. They should also be in no doubt that being in the EU means free movement. Nothing in David Cameron’s reform package changes that. There is no prospect of that basic freedom changing any time soon. The EU means mass migration.
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>> Anyone voting on Britain’s EU membership should be aware of these facts. They should also
>> be in no doubt that being in the EU means free movement. Nothing in David
>> Cameron’s reform package changes that. There is no prospect of that basic freedom changing any
>> time soon. The EU means mass migration.
Roger is, of course telling you that each and every one of them wants to come to the UK. of If you believe him in the next 5 years Europe will be empty and 742 million people will be living in the UK. Of course we have been in Europe for, what how many years now? have all 742 million europeans come here? No of course not, Roger is making stuff up again.
He seems to forget that most immigrants in the UK, came not from Europe.
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Heres a solution to the migrant crisis. Most of the problem is believed to be in Syria, caused by Syria and its Russian allies, some say possibly as a weapon, Turkey whilst bleating about its borders, is explicit in the crisis as a means to get EU membership.
Lets bypass the problem at source, as its a security problem, Europe forces should invade northern Syria/Iraq, all along the Turkish border. Set up a buffer zone 50 miles wide. Within the zone set up reception centres, with good shelter, medical facilities and provisions, manned entry points on the Sryian side. Within these centres, prospective refugees can be processed for prospective resettlement into the EU. Any refugees that arrive in Europe by any other means should be shipped straight into the reception centres in the buffer zone Any deemed to be "economic migrants" shipped back forcible to country of origin.
As the fluffy tribble says, Discusss.
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>> Any deemed to
>> be "economic migrants" shipped back forcible to country of origin.
>>
>>
But we want economic migrants, don't we? People with skills, brains, qualifications, drive, initiative? Those who will get or generate jobs.
I thought it was the uneconomic ones that some people want to stop.
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>> I thought it was the uneconomic ones that some people want to stop.
Economic migrants of value have existing avenues of apply to emigrate to state of choice.
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>> As the fluffy tribble says, Discusss.
>>
Seems good to me
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>> He seems to forget that most immigrants in the UK, came not from Europe.
>>
Don't mention that - it will only encourage him. :)
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>> Don't mention that - it will only encourage him. :)
The last set of figures I can find from an independent and impartial source (*) covers up to Q1 2015.
Population of EU-born in the UK stood at just over 3 million in the first quarter of 2015.
Until about 2003, that had stood steady at around 1.1 million.
In other words, EU-born population has increased by around 1.9 million net in the 12 years to Q1 2015.
(*) COMPAS at the University of Oxford provides impartial, independent, authoritative, evidence-based analysis of data on migration and migrants in the UK.
Last edited by: BrianByPass on Tue 8 Mar 16 at 15:54
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Of course a goodly proportion are young an economically active. This helps in two ways, generating tax and keeping the employed population demographics younger than the European norm. We need them.
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"We need them."
Yes - and when they get too old, we can deport them, and import some more fresh young ones.
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>> Of course a goodly proportion are young an economically active. This helps in two ways,
>> generating tax and keeping the employed population demographics younger than the European norm. We need
>> them.
Somebody needs to get to the bottom of this. We don't appear to need them in anything like the way that Germany does, a fact that is rarely mentioned when comparing the attitudes of Germany and of the UK to refugees/migrants.
To repeat what I posted about a month ago -
Britain already has one of the youngest populations in Europe, and a rapidly rising population. Germany is in a far worse position, which a much worse projected dependency ratio and a falling population, which is why it makes much more sense for them to encourage migration, in economic terms at least (see below link)
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34172729
and here is a Guardian article from 2008, before the later increases in immigration, stating the UK was already on track to become the most populous country in Europe by 2060, based on the lower average age of its population and its birth rates.
www.theguardian.com/world/2008/aug/27/population.eu
The suggestion that the UK should try to solve its public finance problems and pension shortfalls by importing more young people does not seem entirely congruent with the above. Some proper work on population forecasting and explaining needs doing here.
Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 8 Mar 16 at 20:29
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>> Roger is, of course telling you that each and every one of them wants to
>> come to the UK. of If you believe him in the next 5 years Europe
>> will be empty and 742 million people will be living in the UK. Of course
>> we have been in Europe for, what how many years now? have all 742 million
>> europeans come here?
You are being more tendentious than usual. Smacks of "remain" desperation, to me.
Nowhere have I said that the whole population of the European Union WILL come to the U.K.
It is a FACT that they will all have the RIGHT to come here. This will include those from a newly joined, or if not joined, enabled Turks (visa free to the EU is part of the recent bribe, is it not?).
Turkey is not European, even if a small part of it is in Europe - it is an increasingly Islamised Middle Eastern entity: there has been a accelerating move from a secular state to an Islamic one, combined with carp record of human rights.
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Why are you so scared of foreigners?
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here has been a accelerating move from a secular state to an Islamic one, combined with carp record of human rights.
A very good reason to leave if you're don't like the way things are going there.
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> It is a FACT that they will all have the RIGHT to come here. This
>> will include those from a newly joined, or if not joined, enabled Turks (visa free to the EU is part of the recent bribe, is it not?).
being visa free to visit here isn't the same as the right to live here. There are quite a few countries that don't require visas do we have an issue with them? What does bretbort think?
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>> enabled Turks (visa free to the EU is part of the recent bribe, is it not?).
I thought visa free was only going to be to Schengen zone countries, i.e. not the UK.
You'll be telling me next Israel is not in Europe. It has to be because it takes part in the Eurovision Song Contest ;-)
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>> You are being more tendentious than usual. Smacks of "remain" desperation, to me.
>> Nowhere have I said that the whole population of the European Union WILL come to
>> the U.K.
>> It is a FACT that they will all have the RIGHT to come here.
Yes but they wont, just as they haven't in the past.
>>This
>> will include those from a newly joined, or if not joined, enabled Turks (visa free
>> to the EU is part of the recent bribe, is it not?).
>> Turkey is not European, even if a small part of it is in Europe -
>> it is an increasingly Islamised Middle Eastern entity: there has been a accelerating move from
>> a secular state to an Islamic one, combined with carp record of human rights.
Visa free schengen area only. Again you are either missing the vital facts, or deliberately misinterpreting them. Not for the first time.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 8 Mar 16 at 20:09
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EU having a pop at Greece again - Westpig
