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Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 4 Dec 15 at 10:27
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I bet red Ed M. & the Cleggster wish their resignations had not bee accepted!
Delingpole being nice for a change.
tinyurl.com/mkne8z5
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All of UKIPS MPs think Nige should take a break
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32761766
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I think Farage is on the brink of some sort of breakdown. He looks ill.
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The strain of holding that rabble anything like together was bound to tell eventually.
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>> I think Farage is on the brink of some sort of breakdown. He looks ill.
He is ill. Bad back, very bad they say.
I hope he will avoid the breakdown. Anyone can have one of those. Let someone else stand in, plenty of borderline loonies to choose from in the Kipper ranks.
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>> I hope he will avoid the breakdown. Anyone can have one of those. Let someone
>> else stand in, plenty of borderline loonies to choose from in the Kipper ranks.
>>
Hmmmm our members excepted...
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 16 May 15 at 20:44
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Is it 'loonies' or 'borderline' you're excepting here?
I wish I could just scowly myself and save my coward of a stalker the trouble. But honestly, how is 'rabble' too strong? They come as close to electoral relevance as they ever will, but (arguably) the second-most recognizable politician in the land can't actually get himself elected, he tries to step down but they panic and won't let him for fear the party without him will tear itself apart, which it then proceeds to do.
After months of trying to contain the racists, the xenophobes, the misogynists and the queer-bashers, to remind them that they're not in the National Front any more (just stuck in the 1950s) and would they please behave, all he has to show for it is a high water mark protest vote and a net loss on the seats he was gifted before the election. Oh yes, and as his gift to the language, the phrase 'a little too Ukip'. No wonder he's exhausted. Trouble is, even with a lid on the seething UKIP pot and Farage squatting on it, they couldn't win enough to out-leverage the Greens; the moment he steps off it, out pop the real Kippers in all their loathsome glory for the nation to admire. "Hmm," think Johnny and Jenny Floating Voter, "if that was the best they can do, we really don't want to see the rest."
Other parties go through post-defeat crises, of course, but they do it on a solid base of experienced operators and persistent support in the country. Ukip was never more than a single-issue pressure group (like the Greens, who similarly implode when asked about anything outside their comfort zone) so they haven't earned the public sympathy to fall back on when times get tough. Goodbye, Ukip.
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One of the problems with essentially a single issue party such as UKIP, is that if a referendum occurs, they lose out either way, career-wise. Parties need structure. No career, no structure.
1. UK remains in EU. Chance has not been taken and is now gone.
2. UK opts out. Raison d'etre gone.
3. UK opts out, then independent Scotland opts in. UK remnant surrounded by hostiles.
Last edited by: NortonES2 on Sat 16 May 15 at 13:11
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Talking to one of our councillors about his efforts to bring a farmers market to his town, I cant help but laugh at those who cling to the single issue party line even now.
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You may find that laughing at people who either do not agree or do not understand, or who are perhaps simply not well informed, may not be the best way for a wannabe politician to gain growing support.
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>>You may find that laughing at people who either do not agree or do not understand, or who are perhaps simply not well informed, may not be the best way for a wannabe politician to gain growing support. <<
I find laughing at your comments works pretty well too, you are well informed enough to you you are wrong but still say it anyway. Politician? Lol.
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I dont understand what you just wrote.
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Bless you dear. Have a lovely day :-)
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Stuu he's right, your comment made no grammatical sense, so your rather patronising comeback doesn't really work.
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>>Stuu he's right, your comment made no grammatical sense, so your rather patronising comeback doesn't really work.<<
I know, I had a 4 year old yanking on my arm and wasnt really concentrating, missed a word or two but couldnt edit it ten mins later.
I didnt know that wishing someone a lovely day is patronising though, has the Left banned it and I missed the memo?
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>> I didnt know that wishing someone a lovely day is patronising though, has the Left
>> banned it and I missed the memo?
>>
I think it was the " Bless you dear" that was just a teansie weansie bit patronising, as if one had sneezed without using one's hanky?
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Take the trouble to be nice about a group I consider a stain on British politics and a bona fide national embarrassment? Nah, haven't got time. But if you've got a considered rebuttal, I'll consider it.
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>> Take the trouble to be nice about a group I consider a stain on British
>> politics and a bona fide national embarrassment? Nah, haven't got time. But if you've got
>> a considered rebuttal, I'll consider it.
>>
Could I turn the question round a bit?
Give me, say, three UKIP official policies which you find offensive" - not just wrong - everyone is entitled to differ - but actually offensive.
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I know you didn't ask me, but.........
>> three UKIP official policies which you find offensive
I don't think I find any of the policies offensive, although I do disagree with some.
UKIP is a bit amateur and it doesn't have seem to have a broad range of policies *that it cares about*, but that is not offensive and will probably sort itself out if they are around long enough.
The type of person who seems all too often to be attracted to UKIP is a much bigger issue in my eyes. And a bigger worry.
The views, behaviours and statements of some of the individual UKIP supporters I find massively offensive.
I couldn't put it any better than AC....
"I find it hard to decide whether UKIP is doing everyone a favour by keeping people out of the arms of the overtly far-right NF and BNP, or doing us a disfavour by making near-fascist opinions seem semi-respectable to uncritical observers. "
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Yes we have had some undesirables - always happily exposed by the diligent media.
Not just us, though!~
drive.google.com/file/d/0B39PL1hZ6W_ReC00Ni1iWFJ3OFU/view?pli=1
Last edited by: Roger. on Sun 17 May 15 at 18:35
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>> Yes we have had some undesirables - always happily exposed by the diligent media.
>>
>> Not just us, though!~
>>
>> drive.google.com/file/d/0B39PL1hZ6W_ReC00Ni1iWFJ3OFU/view?pli=1
Whataboutery doesn't usually add anything. Whataboutery from dubious sources even less so.
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>> Whataboutery doesn't usually add anything. Whataboutery from dubious sources even less so.
EDIT.
And having to go back as far as people like Peter Jaconelli who died in the last century implies an element of desperation.
*Jaconelli was king of Scarborough's ice cream shops and was also in Bingo for a while and has subsequently been outed as a peado. He was certainly matey with Savile.
www.theguardian.com/news/1999/may/20/guardianobituaries.martinwainwright
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I'm not sure what the discussion is here but many of the Yewtree related and not-related cases are "historic" and go back to the last century.
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>> I'm not sure what the discussion is here
Discussion was about number of 'fruitcakes' emerging amongst UKIP's councillors, candidates etc during current and immediately recent elections and how those people were vetted.
However bad their offending, referring to men elected under other parties' flags who were in office in seventies and dead before Y2K adds nothing to debate.
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Precisely Cliff, thanks.
I sincerely hope Stuu's departure is for the quoted reason and isn't a flounce. I can't imagine living without the internet, maybe that should be a topic for another thread...
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>> I sincerely hope Stuu's departure is for the quoted reason and isn't a flounce
Flounce out, flounce back in, flounce out again... it's a way of staying in the public eye.
I find it hard to decide whether UKIP is doing everyone a favour by keeping people like Stu and Roger out of the arms of the overtly far-right NF and BNP, or doing us a disfavour by making near-fascist opinions seem semi-respectable to uncritical observers.
I too wish Stu and Roger well, and hope they will calm down and become less rabid with the passage of time. Not optimistic though. Some people can't help seeing things in extreme black-and-white terms.
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Right folks, Im off so I wish you all the best, especially you Roger with this thread!
I am getting shot of the internet for a year, a sort of social experiment which may become permanant, not sure yet, part of one of those back to basics things ive been planning for a while but the election meant I had to be online until now.
Good luck to you all. Tally ho :-)
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I guess you won't read this, but in case...
Shot of reading or shot of contributing? Time to time I consider the latter but stopping the former would be impractical, I think.
Good luck though.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 16 May 15 at 18:59
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>> Shot of reading or shot of contributing?
Says he is getting rid of the net, so I guess both. Not sure I could now manage stuff without the net. Internet Banking, most of the services supplied to me are now managed on the web, even motoring is much trickier without the net.
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Mmm. Difficult to envisage managing without all that information.
However, social media & forums, I wonder about the usefulness of those.
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>> Time to time I consider the latter
I hope not.
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Another one bites the dust.
Wonder who will be the last one left standing?
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>> Another one bites the dust.
>>
>> Wonder who will be the last one left standing?
He's bitten the dust so often he thinks its breakfast.
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A strange form of attention seeking but it seems to be working.
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I suppose I could say the same of you, Scowly-a***wit, whoever you are. Tiresome individual.
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>> I suppose I could say the same of you, Scowly-a***wit, whoever you are. Tiresome individual.
Well whoever it is, its working init. You are getting upset and provoked over a mere collection of pixels on a screen. Pixels that someone didn't even have to think about or make any effort to create
You are such an amateur when it comes to getting scowlies, you wait till you get so many that it turns darker shades of red and even more scowly.
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I have to admit that your scowly accretion rate is way way higher than the rest of us. Have only managed stage two myself. Perhaps you could give us some hint and tips as to how to improve.
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I never read scowlies or approvals.
As I am so confident in my inherent correctness, there is no need :-) I KNOW I am right..
I am sure you are all delighted to be associated with such talent.
And the men in white coats are coming on Monday to take me away....
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The easiest way to accumulate scowlies is simply to express left wing or even vaguely liberal views :-P
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>> The easiest way to accumulate scowlies is simply to express left wing or even vaguely
>> liberal views :-P
>>
At least you are not jailed for it :-)
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>> I have to admit that your scowly accretion rate is way way higher than the
>> rest of us. Have only managed stage two myself. Perhaps you could give us some
>> hint and tips as to how to improve.
Its a gift. you can't give gifts away.
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>> Its a gift. you can't give gifts away.
See? I even got one for that, such talent i don't even have to try.
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I have said more than once that I don't know why Simon persists with them.
Very irritating.
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>> I have said more than once that I don't know why Simon persists with them.
>>
>> Very irritating.
>>
I think someone is giving out scowlies and probably thinks it's funny. I got one for my post above.
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>>You are such an amateur when it comes to getting scowlies
AND you're mostly getting daytime scowlies.
There's a whole 'nother set, night-time scowlies which seem to get put on to notes after Midnight UK time.
I can;t say I care much about them one way or another these days.
At least you're having an effect, and arguably you're annoying cowardly people - can't be all bad.
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>> AND you're mostly getting daytime scowlies.
A little unfair
>> There's a whole 'nother set, night-time scowlies which seem to get put on to notes
>> after Midnight UK time.
I command a broad nonspatial continuum of detractors.
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I am worshipped by a group of anonymous and largely scaredy-cat detractors.
My detractors are so dedicated that they even email each other about me.
However, I am SOOO good at it that it doesn't matter what I write, or indeed even if I write nothing, my name is enough.
As it should be.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 17 May 15 at 17:46
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>> I am worshipped by a group of anonymous and largely scaredy-cat detractors.
>>
>> My detractors are so dedicated that they even email each other about me.
do they? how do you know? you have an informer!
Sooooo Jealous.
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>>you have an informer!
I prefer the term "sharer".
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>> >>you have an informer!
>>
>> I prefer the term "sharer".
DEEP THROAT! This is a car4playgate moment.
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In this case you DO have a manual to read, Shirly?
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Nigel mocked by a BELGIAN?
tinyurl.com/o5hh4sf
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"Loved this:"
I don't think I'd want to be eighteen again.
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...........in the HoC, but from a Tory!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgrLMi_8b2g
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You mean a Tory speech from a Tory politician, and you support him and it?
That's nice.
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>> You mean a Tory speech from a Tory politician, and you support him and it?
>>
>> That's nice.
No - a UKIP speech from a Tory politician!
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Oh. Which UKIP politician wrote it?
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Let's face it.. Anyone who believes any politician is naive and mentally challenged.. After all you only need to remember SERPS. (or read about it if luckily too young to remember)
So when a politician claims the promised land awaits if you support them.. you clutch your wallet and think carefully..All politicians depend upon a cadre of "useful idiots" (See Lenin)
Last edited by: madf on Sat 13 Jun 15 at 18:55
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"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."
Grouch Marx (playing a Politician)
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To be premiered at the Fringe.
Witty and irreverent, this exuberant new musical features a host of original and appallingly catchy songs including Bongo Bongo Land and the UKIPers anthem, Let’s Pull Up The Drawbridge.
“Nigel Farage is a haunted man. Tormented by feelings of impotence and inadequacy, he just doesn’t know how to rescue Britain from Europe’s clutches. However, following a visitation from the Ghosts of Britain’s Past (Churchill) and Britain’s Quite Recent (Thatcher), he suddenly sees a way to win over the public – only to watch his plan to save Britannia backfire spectacularly. Will it be too late for our anti-hero to save the day, his country and his wife?â€
www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/huddersfield-writer-cath-day-pens-9675125
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'Spect it'll be all over the media, loads of people will be shouting about how its a new kind of play but in the end nobody will go to see it.
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An interesting article on the tendency to become bigoted as you get older.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33523313
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>> An interesting article on the tendency to become bigoted as you get older.
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33523313
My aged mother is probably the most unprejudiced person I know. She is completely unable to utter a good word about anything or anyone.
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I wonder what the average age of people posting on here is?
What the article didn't cover was the people who can be perfectly polite on one occasion.. and yet thoroughly unpleasant on the next... that has to have an age related issue attached to it ..
;-)
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>> polite on one occasion.. and yet thoroughly unpleasant on the next... that has to have an age related issue attached to it ..
'I'm terribly sorry Vicar... for a moment there I mistook you for that utter swine the Bishop... I do apologise. Perhaps if you'd wear black like the other vicars it wouldn't happen so often... My eyesight isn't what it was, alas...'
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>> the tendency to become bigoted as you get older.
Tchah! That's not bigoted. It's just knowing what's what. Stands to reason dunnit?
Age brings wisdom and the certainty of wisdom. Never mind what the whippersnappers think. They're wrong.
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The sad thing is NF (how apt) always says it's a bad thing, when, if you read the article, it points out they're only coming here because of the success we're having in turning our economy round and are in need of workers to continue to boost growth and wealth generation. No mention of droves of furriners coming to claim our benefits innit. It's all about coming to work.
If NF thinks it's a bad thing still, he's a bigger fool than I ever credited him with being. Unless the reasons for disapproval are not economic, of course................(hint, they're not).
He's a fool, EU Outers are fools. This article proves it and I thank you for posting it.
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Leaving aside whether it is a good thing, a bad thing, or just a thing - 1% of the entire population of Romania has moved to the UK in just 2 years. That seems remarkable, even if some went back.
I'm not surprised it's a lot higher year on year, in a typical S curve usually seen in the adoption of new behaviours. Other things being equal, it is unlikely to go down in the near term.
What ever you think of it, that scale of migration is not something that should just be left to find its own level, simply from a planning point of view.
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Not sure I agree. Nobody is counting them going back, this article is using the issuance of NI numbers as a measure, but these don't get cancelled so we don't know how many go back.
Either way, I'm only really interested that we get enough coming to do the jobs which need doing, and those people are registered for NI and are therefore paying their taxes, which Roger's article is helpfully implying to be the case. And if that's happening then what's the problem?
It's a free market, laissez-faire economy on the whole - why shouldn't the market drive immigration to find its own level? Why would a government department achieve a better result by setting a number and applying it? Sounds a bit Soviet to me.
Blimey, I sound like a proper righty tighty.
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"new arrivals are being driven by job-hunters coming here to work"
Really? And there was me thinking they were coming here to steal benefits and Roger's pension.
"Anyone from an EU country is able to apply for a NI number in Britain and uptake is one of the most reliable indicators of immigration because even the self-employed need a number to work."
Oh dear. You really are going to have to start reading more than the headlines Roger.
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>> Once again, a Nigel Farage forecast appears to be coming to pass.
Once again? What about his forecast of winning a load of parliamentary seats?
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Paying their taxes?
Don't you mean receiving in work benefits, given that most will be on a low, low, wage, receiving child benefit for sprogs living back in their own country and sending the vast majority of their dosh back to Romania?
Last edited by: Roger. on Thu 26 Nov 15 at 17:29
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What a thoroughly unpleasant outlook you have.
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>> Paying their taxes?
>> Don't you mean receiving in work benefits, given that most will be on a low,
>> low, wage, receiving child benefit for sprogs living back in their own country and sending
>> the vast majority of their dosh back to Romania?
Assuming they need a roof over their heads the majority of their dosh goes to a landlord. He and the web of agencies that employ them or probably ripping them off too.
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Missed edit...
Assuming they need a roof over their heads the majority of their dosh goes to
a landlord. He and the web of agencies that employ them or are probably ripping them off too.
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The idea that net migration is out of control and should be lower is hardly controversial - the government's target is "tens of thousands", a pledge renewed by Cameron since the election.
Neither is is the idea that breadwinners who come here to work, leaving families at home, send as much money as they can back to their families, although of course if the families were here too then net migration would be significantly higher and probably more permanent.
The ONS estimates that 1 in 120 Romanians, 0.83%, is living in the UK - my 1% was an overestimate.
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Certainly in this part of the country Bromp and Marks view is correct.
Landlords are making a fortune from them and agencies (or gangmasters as they are know locally) are thriving again.
What concerns me is that they will do the jobs our local unemployed English population refuse to do and these are the ones claiming benefit while sitting snugly at home.
That's the root of the problem.
Pat
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>> What concerns me is that they will do the jobs our local unemployed English population
>> refuse to do and these are the ones claiming benefit while sitting snugly at home.
>>
>> That's the root of the problem.
>>
>> Pat
Except of course unemployment in your local area is low
www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/business/peterborough-unemployment-figures-buck-national-trend-1-6851312
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>> Except of course unemployment in your local area is low
>>
>> www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/business/peterborough-unemployment-figures-buck-national-trend-1-6851312
I was about to make the same point. My impression, albeit on a self selected sample, is that there are very few in the group you refer to. Far more common are those on jobseekers who should be on a health/disability benefit but are not sufficiently organised to make the transition.
Fragile mental health is a massive hidden problem.
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As always, I live here, I work here but of course, those who don't know better.
Unemployment is low for those who want to work but it's very easy for those who don't.
Only on this forum!
Pat
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>> As always, I live here, I work here but of course, those who don't know
>> better.
Take it up with your local newspaper, who's reporter lives there, and the paper is printed there. Or are they lying?
>> Unemployment is low for those who want to work but it's very easy for those
>> who don't.
And that of course was always the case before EU immigration.
>> Only on this forum!
what facts you mean? its a pleasure as always
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No point in having an opinion or posting it, is there.
I feel like I'm standing pins up for everyone to knock down these days.....and why I post less and less.
Peterborough is the very edge of East Anglia and the Fen.
The month quoted is June when all the seasonal work starts.
You know, and Bromp knows, how scewed statistics can be to suit anything.
But that was a total waste of time so I'll just go back to the washing up and the housework where you'd have me think I belong.
Pat
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CAB skews your view of this type of stuff... I know that..!
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>> No point in having an opinion or posting it, is there.
Of course there is, but when you try and justify your opinion you need to make sure it at least stands up to rudimentary examination. I know the area well for various reasons, so I knew that your assertion was unjustified and it was the work of seconds to haul up the relevant facts.
>> I feel like I'm standing pins up for everyone to knock down these days.....and why
>> I post less and less.
Didn't realise you wanted your word to be gospel.
>> Peterborough is the very edge of East Anglia and the Fen.
its 18 miles from your place, its the largest town in the area, its bound to reflect the labour market.
>> The month quoted is June when all the seasonal work starts.
I will haul out the annual statistics if you like? The labour market has always been seasonal there more so in the past when labour was trucked in from all over the UK and Ireland and the season was shorter. The season there, as you know, has been steadily increasing as our climate gets more and more temperate.
>> You know, and Bromp knows, how scewed statistics can be to suit anything.
I can't screw the statistics the other way to support your assertion, I have tried but its not possible.
>> But that was a total waste of time so I'll just go back to the
>> washing up and the housework where you'd have me think I belong.
FFS dont turn on the cooker.
Oh and by the way, before you whip out the "personal attacks" defence again, just cooly step back through the discussion and see who started that first.
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>> and see who started that first.
Another happy Friday I see. Sigh!
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>> Only on this forum!
I chose not to reply to this on Friday as I couldn't work out what you were trying to say. I still cannot so will have a go trying to expand. Basically, whatever the situation is in more remote Fen habitations, the numbers don't seem to sustain the argument that our own unemployed are a substitute for the 2m or EU migrant workers currently in the UK.
The current unemployment rate, those seeking work and available to start rather than a claimant count, is around 5%. Allowing for 'churn' between jobs and the unemployable that's statistically very close to full employment. We're drawing these people in because we need them - as was always the case with mass migration.
Now if you think that's arithmetically wrong, or there's some other way of meeting economic demand, please tell us why or how. Some of us will still disagree but that's what debate is about.
Not only on this forum but any other where there's meant to be debate.
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There are a lot of moving parts here. Workers from the poorer parts of the EU who can send money home may find it worthwhile to work in very low paid seasonal jobs that are unattractive to indigenes. Combined with in work benefits this probably expands the labour markets while at the same time keeping wages low.
The consequences of free movement, EU expansion, and the productivity gap between the richer nations and the poorer new entrants were not all foreseen, so planning has not been appropriate. The obvious divergence has been the net migration numbers which were expected (we must assume, as it was predicted by Cameron) to be in the tens of thousands now but have actually increased to the mid 300,000s.
This touches on the productivity puzzle. As employment has increased, output has not gone up in line with the expected productivity trend. To the limited extent that labour really is is mobile, its free movement tends to average productivity and living standards between the poorer countries and the better off ones that the economic migrants choose to move to.
Investment is a factor of course, but very cheap labour is a partial substitute for that, that does nothing to increase productivity that is the key to higher living standards.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34289704
Regardless of whether an expansion of the population at this rate is good or bad, I would expect any government to want to have some control of inward migration.
This is yet another example of the difficulty in having a semi-united Europe. It will continue to create problems unless we wind back on the EU or go the whole hog with political union.
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>> Except of course unemployment in your local area is low
>>
>> www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/business/peterborough-unemployment-figures-buck-national-trend-1-6851312
>>
Unemployment was low in London when I was there... yet all the estates I ever went to in a professional capacity had the usual suspects doing FA.
Yet a fair chunk of the central London bar staff were Aussies... and in the latter part of my life there, plenty of builders were Eastern Europeans.
Where Pat is, it's my impression that the Eastern Europeans come and fruit pick.. whilst the locals can't be bothered... is my impression wrong?
Last edited by: Westpig on Fri 27 Nov 15 at 09:56
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>> Where Pat is, it's my impression that the Eastern Europeans come and fruit pick.. whilst
>> the locals can't be bothered... is my impression wrong?
Thats always been the case. Its short demand work thats always been looked down on by the locals* and fullfiled by shipping in workers from everywhere else. There is nothing new apart form the source. Oh and the fact its far less fruit than it used to be. Now its mostly root veg, most of which is rejected by supermarkets because the sale is wrong and then fed to cattle elsewhere in the country. Or ploughed back into the soil to make more root veg that the supermarkets reject..........
* you can understand why, you can't build a stable family life out of short term unreliable type employment.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 27 Nov 15 at 12:26
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>> * you can understand why, you can't build a stable family life out of short
>> term unreliable type employment.
And when you have been in work for a period, you need to re-qualify for certain benefits with a wait period I believe. So you can end up quite a bit worse off.
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>> >> * you can understand why, you can't build a stable family life out of
>> short
>> >> term unreliable type employment.
>>
>> And when you have been in work for a period, you need to re-qualify for
>> certain benefits with a wait period I believe. So you can end up quite a
>> bit worse off.
>>
Well that's a problem that needs sorting as a priority... because in most people's books some work ought to be better than no work... and IMO a great chunk of the unemployed could be employed doing something even if it isn't their dream job.
... which would leave the genuinely disadvantaged free to use the benefits system that our civilised country rightly provides and for which some currently abuse.
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>>Well that's a problem that needs sorting as a priority<<
Indeed it does.
The Fen to me isn't Peterborough where it's possible to walk or take public transport to a well paid job in town or on an inustrial estate on the outskirts.
Think Methwold, Queen Adelaide, Upwell, Three Holes and places like that.
There are so many people who have never worked a day during their adult life and will proudly boast about it.
'Why should I when the state will keep me'
'I do plenty of cash in hand jobs'
'I can't afford a car to get me to work' (a valid point)
'There's no transport for shift work'
So many excuses and the benefit system never addresses them in a practical manner to force these habitual shirkers into work.
...and if they did have to work they do it with one enormous attitude problem which inevitably ends with them getting the sack and eventually back on benefits.
Pat
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SQ 4 LB
>> Think Methwold, Queen Adelaide, Upwell, Three Holes and places like that.
Yeah but now you are talking about bandit country, its like the deep south. Thats got nothing to do with immigrant workers. They will always be like that.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 27 Nov 15 at 16:58
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>> They will always be like that.<<
Only if they're allowed to be.
Pat
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>> >> They will always be like that.<<
>>
>> Only if they're allowed to be.
No-one has managed to stop them for the last 100 years. Parts of the fens are a forgotten country, and nothing has been done to connect them to the real world, no public transport, poor roads, the railways all closed, poor telecommunications. Its the fend for yourself backwoods.
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It is, I agree.
BUT, last year we had a motorcyclist killed at 5.30am on a small moped travelling from Spalding to Sutton to work (30miles each way) in December because of the mud left on the roads by the beet lorries. No other vehicle involved and below zero temperatures.
He was a Lithuanian with a work ethic, see what I mean?
Pat
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>> He was a Lithuanian with a work ethic, see what I mean?
>>
>> Pat
Well they make a welcome addition to the Fens then in anyones books don't you agree?
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>> No-one has managed to stop them for the last 100 years. Parts of the fens
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>> for yourself backwoods.
Who on earth could justify putting a red scowly face on that post. How utterly pathetic.
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>> What concerns me is that they will do the jobs our local unemployed English population
>> refuse to do and these are the ones claiming benefit while sitting snugly at home.
I don't quite understand your point. Presumably the workshy will sit on their bums whoever takes the job? (I'm a bit confused about who you meant was claiming the benefits, the English workshy?)
>>Unemployment is low for those who want to work but it's very easy for those who don't.
I agree. But that's usually been the case in the UK. I'm not sure its impacted one way or the other by immigration or much else. As you say it is too easy not to work.
I remember a couple of friends of mine being unemployed in around 1977. A couple of times I used to walk up the dole office with them. Generally one got the idea that one didn't want to be seen there, and I always pointed out to anybody I knew that I was only walking up there with friends, not actually claiming.
These days it seems that people are completely unconcerned and that there is no negative attitude towards being unemployed and on benefits.
So previously those who might have felt that had to work, were shamed into working or whatever, now feel completely comfortable in the benefits lifestyle.
Not only do we need to make it more difficult to get benefits, we need to change the public perception of the lazy. Benefits need to be more difficult to get and more difficult to live on for anybody who could work but isn't.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 27 Nov 15 at 10:10
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>>Not only do we need to make it more difficult to get benefits, we need to change the public perception of the lazy. Benefits need to be more difficult to get and more difficult to live on for anybody who could work but isn't. <<
...and that was exactly the point I was trying to make, but while we have vast numbers of foreign people both willing and able to do those jobs, there will never be any effort put into making our very own get out there and work.
Don't worry VX, I really can't be bothered:)
Pat
PS: That is unless someone tells me that's a racist remark!
Last edited by: Pat on Fri 27 Nov 15 at 10:38
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There is undoubtedly a culture of entitlement that goes beyond benefits. Lots of people think it's OK to claim for whiplash when they aren't injured, or on their house insurance when they want a new carpet, if they can get away with it.
Specific to benefits, some also don't see the difference between getting what they are entitled to (deserve) and gaming the system - hiding money to keep benefits etc.
The new pension freedoms have opened up new opportunities here. Working in pensions I am aware of several people who say (not necessarily what they mean) that they plan to take their pension money and spend it, then fall back on the state when they give up work. I suspect that the ones who mean it are the feckless or financially incompetent who are circling the drain anyway, and much of the pension money will be used to pay off debts.
It grieves me to think about the widespread ignorance of money management, but that's another topic.
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>> ...and that was exactly the point I was trying to make, but while we have
>> vast numbers of foreign people both willing and able to do those jobs, there will
>> never be any effort put into making our very own get out there and work.
That was the case before large numbers of foreign people came to do the jobs.
Consider this, we have more people living in the uk than at any time since the 60s, and unemployment is now approaching the same low level as the 60s. can you explain how that works based on your root of the matter?
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UKIP Debate - Volume 25 - Roger.
