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As above.*
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Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 20 Nov 14 at 10:10
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I don't like UKIP.
I look at countries that have allowed immigration and see how well they have developed, like Canada, USA, Australia, Germany and the UK.
I also think we are better off in a large group such as the EU as opposed to being alone.
I visit many companies and talk to FDs and MDs in my job and I reckon many would find it harder to export to the EU if we were out of it.
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UKIP are for controlled immigration - just like Canada, Australia, New Zealand & the USA.
In other words we want people with the skills we need: we would rather have a skilled engineer from (say) India than a unskilled European on minimum wage and in-work tax credits.
We cannot achieve this until we are out of the EU.
We import far more from the EU than they buy from us and even then a lot of "Exports" to the EU are in fact for onward shipping to the rest of the world.
We are a net contributor to the EU, which means a fair whack of our money goes to subsidise other countries in the EU.
I like UKIP!
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>>We are a net contributor to the EU, which means a fair whack of our money goes to subsidise other countries in the EU.
Yes but we don't hear California asking to leave the USA because they are a net contributor do you?
You don't hear Florida asking to ban other Americans who are immigrating there? (I acknowledge that in the Great Depression many authorities tried to stop the disposed moving from state to state but this was by local politicians rather than state legislators).
The vision for the EU is a United States of Europe. Like the USA in its early years it is far from perfect but in the long term it has the potential to be something great and I think we should stick with it.
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That is difficult Roger.Controlled immigration we have been here before.We can't stop legal immigration from the E.U can we?
Ok stop or try to stop criminals coming in which isn't working very well is it.Why where so many people from the Indian Pakistani continents let in.How many of these thugs from Pakistani origin living in Rotherham are Engineers.
Have we gangs of unskilled Polish workers raping children? The ones I have met in this area are hard working with young families.They intergrate and their children speak perfect English.
Without the Polish or East European worker most of the farmers would be in despair.
It is not going to happen Roger believe me we will be still part of the E.U.
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>>>The ones I have met in this area are hard working with young families.They intergrate and their children speak perfect English.
Without the Polish or East European worker most of the farmers would be in despair<<
Now that's a hard one Dutchie.
On the one hand I have to agree it is exactly the same in this area.
On the other hand, I also see a lot of long term unemployed English people with no intention of ever working and getting away with it.
I have to ask myself, if the European workers didn't do these jobs, would there be any way we could force the English workshy to take them?
There should be a way.
Pat
Last edited by: Pat on Mon 1 Sep 14 at 09:10
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With all UKIP, EU and immigration related postings by Roger, I do wonder what his views used to be when he was living in Spain.... Just wondering. Was it EU related or some other reason like health that Roger returned to the UK?
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>> Ok stop or try to stop criminals coming in which isn't working very well is
>> it.Why where so many people from the Indian Pakistani continents let in.How many of these
>> thugs from Pakistani origin living in Rotherham are Engineers.
The perps of the Rotherham outrage were unlikely to be recent immigrants. Rather they're seond or third generation and born here. Their parents/grandparents were recruited to work in our traditional industries (metal bashing, textiles etc) now long gone.
There are plenty tales, confirmed by convictions, of Eastern Europeans, including Poles, trafficking women in distressed circumstances to UK. Promised work in hospitality etc turns out to be prostitution. Women kept locked up in brothels 'serving' dozen of men every day.
Issue in all such cases is misogyny rather than race.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 1 Sep 14 at 09:35
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Just returning to the Clacton by-election section of the thread ……… according to the East Anglian Daily Times:
"………………….. But the latest betting odds this morning show that a UKIP victory is more likely than a England win against San Marino at Wembley tonight. Two bookmakers are offering 1/200 for Mr Carswell to win, while an England victory is widely priced as 1/100."
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>> Just returning to the Clacton by-election section of the thread ……… according to the East
>> Anglian Daily Times:
>>
>> "………………….. But the latest betting odds this morning show that a UKIP victory is more
>> likely than a England win against San Marino at Wembley tonight. Two bookmakers are offering
>> 1/200 for Mr Carswell to win, while an England victory is widely priced as 1/100."
It seems to be a given that Carswell will win today. Clacton is classic UKIP territory to which can be added the fact that the candidate is a well regarded constituency MP (ie he also has a personal vote).
There is an analogy with Dick Taverne's taking of Lincoln at a byelection in 1973, though in that case his cause was pro-Europe. Test for Carswell will be to retain the seat at GE next year.
What will be more interesting today is the result in Heywood & Middleton.
Next up though is Mark Reckless's seat in Kent. Both UKIP and the Tories will 'throw the kitchen sink' at that one. Could be a very nasty and personal fight - knives are out for Reckless in a way they're not for Carswell. If UKIP take it the Tories will go into meltdown.
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Fir continuity etc is it possible to move/copy the last few threads from vol 14 here?
done
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 4 Sep 14 at 10:38
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>>>The ones I have met in this area are hard working with young families.They intergrate and their children speak perfect English.
>>Without the Polish or East European worker most of the farmers would be in despair<<
>>Now that's a hard one Dutchie.
>>On the one hand I have to agree it is exactly the same in this area.
>>On the other hand, I also see a lot of long term unemployed English people with no intention of ever working and getting away with it.
>>I have to ask myself, if the European workers didn't do these jobs, would there be any way we could force the English workshy to take them?
I think, Pat, the answer is 'no'. The workshy English are the bottom of the pile (unintelligent, uneducated etc.). The Eastern Europeans picking our cabbages are the top of the pile (intelligent, educated etc.).
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Most unusual...I think I agree with you Mapmaker;)
Pat
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I expect intelligence distribution curves are roughly similar throughout the world. Educational achievement is certainly not. I don't think low UK achievement is down to low intelligence so much as two other factors. Children are not properly socialised in the home to start with and this does not only mean that they can't tie their own shoelaces or manage a flush toilet. More radically, that they don't have the necessary mental mechanisms concerned with obedience, good manners and work. Then there is the ineffective education many encounter.
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>>I expect intelligence distribution curves are roughly similar throughout the world.
That's the point, sorry if I didn't make it clear. Only the motivated, intelligent Poles come to join us. They may well be doctors or nurses, earning a pittance as a cleaner in order to pay for their education. Hence, intelligent, young and willing.
Meanwhile, our unemployed are significantly more likely to be uneducated and of low intelligence.
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If UKIP are so keen on defending our independence how come hey're not making a fuss over a treaty that puts so much of our economy in hands of mulinationals?
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/14/ttip-deal-british-sovereignty-cameron-ukip-treaty
Nothing to do with them being, in reality. a bunch of neo-cons quite happy to see workers right trampled?
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www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/27/Nuclear-Bomb-Number-2-Mark-Reckless-MP-Defects-To-UKIP
The earthquake rumbles on - Mark Reckless, previously Tory MP for Rochester & Strood has joined UKIP. (Conference today)
He will be following Douglas Carswell in resigning his seat and standing for re-election as a UKIP candidate.
Respect!
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As a matter of interest it was the Labour party which invoked the Private Finance Initiative which put large chunks of our NHS infrastructure into the clutches of multinationals.
UKIP has promised to campaign with UNISON to keep our NHS out of this trade deal.
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Big photo in my comic today of Nigel Farage with a most unusual expression on his face - recognizable only from the pint - in the company of a foreign lady who isn't named.
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> Nigel Farage with a most unusual expression on his face - recognizable only from the pint..
Should have gone to Specsavers AC.
That "pint" is a paper coffee mug.
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I insist that its a squishy plastic pint with a non-waste lid on it. That or a paper coffee mug anyway.
He was clutching it just as he clutches his pint Kevin. We weren't shown his other hand on the lady's left shoulder, with cigarette between fingers and smoke curling up into her hair.
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>> As a matter of interest it was the Labour party which invoked the Private Finance
>> Initiative which put large chunks of our NHS infrastructure into the clutches of multinationals.
>> UKIP has promised to campaign with UNISON to keep our NHS out of this trade
>> deal.
So the response from UKIP is 'whataboutery' concerning PFI*.
I'm still curious about UKip's approach to TTIP in principle
*PFI was actually a brainchild of the Tories which Labour was far too enthusiastic in adopting.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 27 Sep 14 at 23:27
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Where do they find these weird eight-year-old arrested development types to man the hustings? Honestly!
As for the defection of the Reckless one, there are other murmuring Tory xenophobes. Still got a sort of majority. So far so good. Not that it's a matter of great concern to me you understand. I'll be perfectly happy to see the other lot get a go if they can wangle it.
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Has anyone noticed the similarity between resigned Minister Brooks Newmark and Ed Miliband.
(can't do the pictures as this site bans IMG tags)
Are they by any chance related
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>> On the eve of the Tory conference another kick in the balls for Cameron &
>> Co!
>>
>> www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11125919/Conservative-minister-resigns-over-sex-scandal.html
The 'offence' is described by the Telegraph in the following terms:
Mr Newmark initiated a private message conversation on a social networking website and sent a graphic picture exposing himself while wearing a pair of paisley pyjamas, according the Mirror newspaper.
I know sniggering is frowned on but............
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 27 Sep 14 at 21:49
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The funniest thing is that he is or was Minister for Civil Society.
1. Just a tad ironic.
2. I didn't even know there was such a pointless job in Westminster.
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>> The funniest thing is that he is or was Minister for Civil Society.
>>
>> 1. Just a tad ironic.
Role description here:
www.gov.uk/government/ministers/parliamentary-secretary-minister-for-civil-society
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Impressed that that page is already updated with the appointment that is just 3 hrs old.
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>> Impressed that that page is already updated with the appointment that is just 3 hrs
>> old.
I was too. My old job involved getting newly appointed quango members' details on the website. Took longer than 3hrs but we did have to agree precise wording with incoming appointee.
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>I know sniggering is frowned on but............
Oh, feel free to snigger Bromp - I have to admit that I did.
He should be chained to tower bridge and publicly ridiculed. What the heck was he thinking wearing paisley pyjamas? No-one wears paisley these days, it's so 70's.
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>> On the eve of the Tory conference another kick in the balls for Cameron &
>> Co!
>>
>> www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11125919/Conservative-minister-resigns-over-sex-scandal.html
Another lying git to UKIP you mean?
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>> tinyurl.com/mwev9ex
>>
"UKIP will scrap the Certificate of Professional Competence"
but lorry drivers carrying exports to the EU will still need it.
Sounds a really far sighted move..not.
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>> >> tinyurl.com/mwev9ex
>> >>
>>
>> "UKIP will scrap the Certificate of Professional Competence"
>>
>> but lorry drivers carrying exports to the EU will still need it.
>>
>> Sounds a really far sighted move..not.
Don't believe in having competence and professional lorry drivers clearly. Funnily enough Pat - the UKIP supporter, will be thrown on the dole.
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>>Funnily enough Pat - the UKIP supporter, will be thrown on the dole. <<
I do have other strings to my bow Z:)
Pat
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Highlights the weakness in the "little Englander" philosophy of UKIP". Like EU regulations or not we effectively have to comply with them as the citizens of Norway will tell you. Better to be in the club and have at least some say in the process
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>> Highlights the weakness in the "little Englander" philosophy of UKIP". Like EU regulations or not
>> we effectively have to comply with them as the citizens of Norway will tell you.
>> Better to be in the club and have at least some say in the process
>>
UKIP supporters don't do logic.
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>>UKIP supporters don't do logic.<<<
I think that I will take issue with that statement! It requires a certain logic to follow the rules below.
preview.tinyurl.com/UKIPPolicy
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>> preview.tinyurl.com/UKIPPolicy
My policy then - according to the above is:
Obstruct people of colour.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 30 Sep 14 at 10:11
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>> My policy then - according to the above is:
>>
>> Obstruct people of colour.
Mine is STOP EUROPE.
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Typically, mine isn't grammatical - MORE THE WORKING CLASS.
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>> Typically, mine isn't grammatical - MORE THE WORKING CLASS.
Its your penance, when you were reincarnated from a deathwatch beetle, it was your fate to live in a non grammatical world.
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Ah, deathwatch beetle was confirmed in Canterbury Cathedral only last week.
During the service the Bishop also confirmed two bats, a rat and a spider.
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>> Better to be in the club and have at least some say in the process
>>
A dubious argument I think, much used by collaborators. There must be some clubs it would be morally imperative to leave, but it it becomes more and more difficult if you have tainted your position by earlier connivance using the "have at least some say" argument.
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>>
>> >> Better to be in the club and have at least some say in the
>> process
>> >>
>>
We have no say.
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>> We have no say.
One can argue that we have insufficient say or that there should be more scope for veto or opt out. But to assert we have no say at all is frankly nonsense.
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You could argue that we would have more say if we were not in. UK would not cease to be important to Europe, and would have more discretion despite having to accept some product compliance requirements to export to the EU.
Would the EU be as keen on a Tobin tax if it could not be imposed on the UK?
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Hmmmm, when this first came to light I assumed there was a tip off about Newmark having these proclivities with undercover operation to confirm.
Reports this morning suggest a 'fishing expedition' by a freelance. Other MPs also approached, so far as I can see from reports all Tories, including defector Reckless and Dover's Charlie Elphick.
If that is the case there may be an interesting test for the new watchdog.
Will also be interesting to see if the 'victim' reportedly contemplating legal action has the chutzpah to use the right to privacy clauses in the Human Rights Act
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 29 Sep 14 at 09:38
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All I can say is that somebody who is so stupid does not deserve to be a Government Minister. What if it had been the Russians (or whoever it is these days) who were now blackmailing him into passing on secrets?
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On the basis that the randomised membership on this forum has a name/birth month profile matching that of the UKIP membership profile I think that we can now confidently confirm that we have discovered the true source of their inspirational thinking :)
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>> On the basis that the randomised membership on this forum has a name/birth month profile
>> matching that of the UKIP membership profile I think that we can now confidently confirm
>> that we have discovered the true source of their inspirational thinking :)
>>
I thought it was based on a random policy generator...
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Free of cost vacuum cleaners for Tories!
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There's a certain resemblance here to the Daily Mail-o-matic...
www.qwghlm.co.uk/toys/dailymail/
WILL THE METRIC SYSTEM GIVE BRITAIN'S SWANS CANCER?
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There was I, thinking that UKIP stood for common sense, and I read that they are anti-GM. Clearly there is an element that is unscientific and ignorant; I thought we'd put all that Frankenfood carp behind us!
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Personally, I think that the GM furore is greatly overblown and broadly support the introduction of better ways of growing more food.
However, there ARE people who take a different view and they should not be forced or conned into buying food of which they disapprove.
I think the thrust of the articles was more about freedom of choice and pressure from transatlantic bullying influences rather than UKIP officially being anti-GM food!
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>> I think the thrust of the articles was more about freedom of choice and pressure
>> from transatlantic bullying influences rather than UKIP officially being anti-GM food!
Which brings us back to earlier question. Where does UKIP stand on TTIP?
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"TTIP would open the door to private US company involvement in the NHS. Louise Bours gave a stirring speech aginst TTIP at UKIP’s conference in Doncaster, stating that “our NHS should be more than an article in a trade agreement between the EU and the United Dtates of Americaâ€. She also revealed that she had received a letter from Len McCluskey and that UKIP and Unison would work together to stop TTIP."
A clear indication of our thinking, which could be incorporated into firm policy.
www.ukip.org/policies_for_people
This is an outline, or a roadmap, to our full 2015 manifesto, which will be published at the same time as those of other parties. We will not commit to a manifesto so far in advance of the event - we have already seen some of our ideas reflected in the conference speeches of the Tories!
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>> a manifesto so far in advance of the event - we have already seen some
>> of our ideas reflected in the conference speeches of the Tories!
You mean they are only good ideas if they are your good ideas.
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>>
>> >> a manifesto so far in advance of the event - we have already seen
>> some
>> >> of our ideas reflected in the conference speeches of the Tories!
>>
>> You mean they are only good ideas if they are your good ideas.
If they reflect our ideas - yes, indeed!
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YBumQHPAeU
Does contain some iffy language!
Pat
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Having found out how UKIP creates policy we now know where the PR is done!
www.thepoke.co.uk/2014/10/09/is-nigel-farage-copying-kim-jongs-photos/
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As predicted in Clacton, but the Heywood result is actually more significant for UKIP - only 617 votes behind Labour in a "safe" Labour seat.
Mind you, I don't think we are naive enough to expect this to be repeated there, on this scale, in May 2015, but it is a pointer and should worry Labour strategists.
The Rochester & Strood by-election will be a real test and despite an early poll lead for Mark Reckless, I think with the strong (and probably dirty) campaign promised by the Tories it makes it far too close to call.
Last edited by: Roger. on Fri 10 Oct 14 at 08:52
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It's war! See private-eye.co.uk/
:-)
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Very convincing sign with nice legs. Could it really be the enamelled metal it resembles, or is it a convincing print on a bit of hardboard?
Either way, chapeau, even if it's planted miles away from Clacton. I do dearly love a good fake.
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"chortle."
Yes, that's what I did when I heard the responses from Messrs Cameron and Millibean the next day.
Cameron concentrated on "a vote for UKIP is a vote for the Labour party", not on how well(?) the government is doing i.e. he is pleading for a protest vote against Labour.
Meanwhile, Millibean rejoiced in the brilliance(?) of the Labour candidate in Heywood.
I heard nothing at all from the poor old Libdems - though I'm not sure anyone bothered to ask them.
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>> I heard nothing at all from the poor old Libdems
Was the Libdem candidate the dwarf in the white suit, stetson and cowboy boots, with the huge yellow rosette, your man Haywain? Or was he the tall bloke with the very towering silly hat?
You knew where you were with Screaming Lord Sutch. Now the carphounds are proliferating. It's all too much for a poor old kneejerk Labour voter. Knotty. Complicated.
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>> "chortle."
>>
>> Yes, that's what I did when I heard the responses from Messrs Cameron and Millibean
>> the next day.
>>
>> Cameron concentrated on "a vote for UKIP is a vote for the Labour party",
Unfortunately it is, if UKIP polls enough we will end up with a Milliband that a minority voted for
>> Meanwhile, Millibean rejoiced in the brilliance(?) of the Labour candidate in Heywood.
The labour vote only fell by 1%
>> I heard nothing at all from the poor old Libdems - though I'm not sure
>> anyone bothered to ask them.
Any party that stands up at its conference and say thill will raise taxes, They is dead man, the corpse is starting to smell.
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Now this tinyurl.com/58ogvs IS witty!
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>> >> Meanwhile, Millibean rejoiced in the brilliance(?) of the Labour candidate in Heywood.
>>
>> The labour vote only fell by 1%
I believe it actually rose slightly base on those who actually voted. How folks shifted their votes between 2010 and now is a mystery. Probability is that Tories and some LAbour voters turned to UKIP as did BNP (close to 10% in 2010). OTOH LD's turned to Labour since Cleggster sold out to Tories.
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Perhaps their marketing team have had their time machine out again.
i.imgur.com/CbpVcKp.png
backing alternative outcomes for the semi literate, or is it just a very ambiguous (and subtle) dig at the current education system?
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>> Who's selling it?
>>
If you search on Amazon UK for " diverse commerce ukip"
They seem to have withdrawn it now! since this am article preview.tinyurl.com/ml2pv4h
They will be on EBay at a premium soon.
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Sun 2 Nov 14 at 12:49
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>> >> Who's selling it?
>> >>
Who's buying it?
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So, we pay the full amount of £1.7 billion, but in two instalments: then they give us the rebate we were getting anyway to make it look as though we have only paid half of the impost and also not until after the 2015 General Election, to make it look as though the Conservatives have got us a good deal. The UK’s 2016 rebate will be 1bn euros smaller as a result.
Even Conservative MEP Dan Hannan points out that:- "The EU sticks us with a bill. Ministers double it, apply the rebate, return to the original figure and claim victory. We're meant to cheer?â€
Cameron and Osborn expect us to fall for their spin? Surely the public are not that naive?
I fell that this spinning pair have just dug themselves a deep hole here.
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On the face of it, it does appear that a bit of really dumb spinning has occurred.
As for the bill itself, we signed up to an agreement containing a review approach years ago that means we have to pay it. Unless its been wrongly calculated, then I'm not really sure what else can be done other than paying or defaulting.
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REBATEGATE… yessss!
It will catch on.
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>> As for the bill itself, we signed up to an agreement
>>
You mean Blair signed us up to it.
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>> You mean Blair signed us up to it.
Was it a matter of controversy at time?
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>> Was it a matter of controversy at time?
>>
Not as controversial as his other decisions (invasion of Iraq, allowing mass immigration, etc.)
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>> You mean Blair signed us up to it.
>Was it a matter of controversy at time?
Sorry, was that a yes or a no?
Because I don't quite see the relevance of controversy. I'm guessing grabbing a woman's breasts for 12 seconds wasn't controversial 20 years ago, but I'm equally supposing that controversy, or its lack, isn't really relevant to anything.
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>> Sorry, was that a yes or a no?
>>
>> Because I don't quite see the relevance of controversy. I'm guessing grabbing a woman's breasts
>> for 12 seconds wasn't controversial 20 years ago, but I'm equally supposing that controversy, or
>> its lack, isn't really relevant to anything.
Blair is fast becoming the same bogey for the right as Thatcher supposedly is for the left.
Continuous changes to the EU contributions regime are 'business as usual', part of a consensus continuum from Heath, through the 75 renegotiation and via Thatcher's rebate to 2010. In reality this detail about GNI and an recount as figures firm up is not 'Blair' in sense of say Iraq.
If, OTOH, whatever change of detail facilitated the recent demand was the subject of vigorous, even cross party opposition then yes it is TB's fault.
It's like the Tories complaining about bank de-regulation under Blair/Brown. Their only contribution at time was to say he wasn't going far enough.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 8 Nov 14 at 19:00
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Does that sound ridiculous to you too?
Are you saying that one can only criticize the decision or act of a political leader if someone else disagreed with him at the time?
That its not relevant whether he was right or wrong, just whether or not anybody argued with him?
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>> Are you saying that one can only criticize the decision or act of a political
>> leader if someone else disagreed with him at the time?
>>
>> That its not relevant whether he was right or wrong, just whether or not anybody
>> argued with him?
Of course not, but if the opposition were saying you'd not gone far enough? It is, for example, pretty rich for Tories to complain now about bank deregulation when their clear position at time was that Brown/Blair were not going far enough.
I just suspect there's a bit of same principle here and that blaming Blair is just scapegoat stuff as oft alleged about the left's 'demonising' of Mrs T.
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>but if the opposition were saying you'd not gone far enough?
I guess that would be relevant if it were then the opposition that criticized you. But its not, its me.
But here is the real problem;
(and guys (and Pat), I know I bang on a bit, but stick with this one)
There are 3 or 4 political parties, and it is hoped that we will align ourselves with one of them allowing them to run our country.
Well, let us consider an analogy, and since we are here, let us use motoring. Let us consider the [say] 20 most regular contributors. This will range from Roger to me, AC to Zero, Runfer to Stuart and you to Westpig. The point being, that whilst there are only 20 of us, we're pretty widespread.
Now, we will make a list of 4 cars out of all the cars available to us. Its nice to think we would choose 4 completely separate vehicles, but the truth is that all the vehicles will overlap the others in some aspects, and differ totally in others. Each of us will choose one of those cars as our favourite and as our recommendation for everybody to drive. You may not customise those cars, nor may you choose a 5th option.
1) On what conceivable level will we reach even an acceptance of the final choice?
2) What are the chances that I, or any of us, will be completely happy with every aspect of the car that we recommended, never mind the one we ultimately ended up with?
3) And how will we reconcile Runfer's need for space & wafting, with my need for robustness and FL's love of speed and handling etc. etc?
So, if we 20 with out mutual interest in Motoring cannot sort out which car we will all agree to drive, what chance is there for the country?
We need to STOP voting for parties. Stop voting for Prime Ministers, and start voting for the individual who is most closely aligned with what we as individuals want in our area specifically and how we wish the votes to go nationally and kick his ass into touch if he fails to please.
Let parliament become a fighting ring where Ministers fight for what *they* believe will please their voters and keep them in power. And then let them live or die by their results.
It doesn't matter what voting process we have, PR or FPTP. It doesn't matter how many artificial groupings there are (or Parties as we like to call them).
If everybody understood the issues, and voted for the solution (representative) which was genuinely closest to their desires, much of the difficult would go away.
Although one should always remember, that a Government with 90% of the vote (like that'd ever happen) is still detested and unwanted by 5 million people. Which is a damned lot.
Let us seek the end of party politics; then, and only then, will we have a government we can live with.
Whereas at the moment we have the Government we deserve.
What would you (Bromp) do if the guy in your area most closely aligned with what you wanted was Conservative? Or me, if he were Labour?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 8 Nov 14 at 21:15
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You've lost me there for a minute.......
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Sorry, I don't understand.
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Read it in more detail now and a few thoughts occur:
Firstly, PM's power of appointment to ministerial roles and predominance whipped votes etc majorly negate our democracy. In that sense party candidacy and associated discipline have gone way too far.
Observation on News Quiz yesterday that while the US mid-terms were a defeat of Democrats by Republicans concurrent referendums hugely favoured liberal causes such as legalisation of marijuana and straightforward abortion.
Item in Guardian today references UK's emphatic distaste for Westminster politics but many, and more so those who've sought his/her help, regard their own MP as an exception.
Personally, I've had involvement with successive local MPs through a transport user group. The tory, Brian Binley, somebody I'd regard as way of my radar voting wise, did a damn good job in his period of office and was a much more effective Chair than the previous Labour incumbent.
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Sorry, I still don't see what you're saying, perhaps I didn't explain my point very well;
There is no chance we can take 50 million voters and distribute them happily amongst 4 parties.
We cannot abandon the principle of 50 million voters, so we need to abandon the idea of 4 parties.
We should vote for individual MPs, without a party allegiance, and then let them fight out our issues in parliament, our way, and remain an MP if they succeed. Let them vote in accordance with our wishes, not the wishes of a central party, whether that be the Tories, Labour, UKIP or that other lot.
Let us stop trying to pigeon hole all our wide ranging beliefs into one of 4 buckets.
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>> Even Conservative MEP Dan Hannan points out that:- "The EU sticks us with a bill.
>> Ministers double it, apply the rebate, return to the original figure and claim victory. We're
>> meant to cheer?â€
Given that Hannan is pretty close to top of list of next UKIP defectors I don't think his comment is surprising. A number of independent observers have concluded that the rebate would have kicked in anyway and the the Cameron/Osborne victory is smoke/mirrors.
More generally the whole thing looks like either a farqup or a conspiracy. They knew, or should have known, as soon as the statisticians came up with new figures that it would affect our EU subs. Cameron's lectern bashing on Friday week was either false or out of frustration at being shown up for Treasury's lacking foresight.
I also suspect that in other countries, with a less fastidious approach to EU directives, the revised definitions of economic activity were less enthusiastically applied.
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It all came about we we stupidly decided to brag about how well we doing, and big our GDP up by including earnings from prostitution and drug dealing. AND backdating them!
You could also say we had been lying about how well we were doing in the past and got caught out when stuff was backdated.
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>> big our GDP up by including earnings from prostitution and drug dealing. AND backdating them!
Why not? Those ancient professions make a substantial contribution to the economy.
And it isn't like Zero to point sanctimoniously at people because of their professions. For myself, I can say hand on heart that some of my best friends have been prostitutes and drug dealers.
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>mass immigration
I think this talk of immigration is scaremongering.
All of the immigrants that I know are hard working and contribute far more than they take out.
The figures quoted never seem to be the net position - i.e. many leave.
What about the British abroad? If we left the EU we would probably have to take them back!
Immigrants tend to be younger and better qualified than locals. A study was undertaken for Boston, Lincs and showed that immigrants used less social and health services than locals as they were younger and working.
I also picked up some stats on the news the other day that they contribute a net £2bn to our economy. Money that we could really do with.
I would prefer hardworking immigrants - which most are - to skiving locals who just don't want to work.
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I see UKIP's response was; "Ah yes, they're a net gain now, but then they'll get older and cost us loads of money in the future".
Presumably unlike his honourable gobbiness that made the statement.
I detected sounds of a straw being grabbed.
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>>; "Ah yes, they're a net gain now, but then they'll get older and cost us loads of money in the future".
And they'll be entitled to it too, after all they will have paid their taxes and NI!
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I also picked up some stats on the news the other day that they contribute a net £2bn to our economy. Money that we could really do with.
IIRC the next benefits of EU immigration was positive. - mainly young workers.
The nest cost of non EU immigrants was negative - mainly unemployables. And six times the gain from EU workers.
But the study was conducted iirc by the same man who estimated immigration from EU would rise by 9,000 after the entry of teh Poles etc.. - a factor of about ten too low.
So probably the numbers are suspect.
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What is it about the £ sign that the software doesn't like?
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>> What is it about the £ sign that the software doesn't like?
>>
The software was written by the EU ?
Last edited by: madf on Sun 9 Nov 14 at 08:47
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I have just been watching the Remembrance Ceremony at the Cenotaph.
The men that came from around the world to help us in our hour of need, from Australia to Zimbabwe make me think how little it is to be exclusionist in this day.
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>>
>> Why not? Those ancient professions make a substantial contribution to the economy.
>
>>
Bt the same argument theft, extortion, money laundering, blackmail, protection rackets and counterfeiting ought to be included too?
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There's a difference between thieves, robbers, murderers etc. who simply plunder or otherwise damage society, and honest business people who provide useful if semi-illegal services to their fellow-humans CP.
The distinction is fairly obvious provided you aren't superstitious or moralistic.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 9 Nov 14 at 15:00
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Clacton By-Election - zippy
